Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, July 24, 2014

Somerset, Kentucky's city hall ventured into the retail gas business Saturday, opening a municipal-run filling station that supporters call a benefit for motorists and critics denounce as a taxpayer-supported swipe at the free market. The Somerset Fuel Center opened to the public selling regular unleaded gas for $3.36 a gallon, a bit lower than some nearby competitors. In the first three hours, about 75 customers fueled up at the no-frills stations, where there are no snacks, no repairs and only regular unleaded gas. "We are one community that decided we've got backbone and we're not going to allow the oil companies to dictate to us what we can and cannot do," Mayor Eddie Girdler said.

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I don't think this will hurt the corporate gas stations save for when their prices go up as part of a gouge strategy it will now be obvious.

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There's no such thing as a "free" market.

#1 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-07-24 01:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

not a bad idea considering that the local c-stores have been 20 to 30 cents higher than neighboring towns.

I'm going to the city council where I live with this idea. It won't go anywhere because our city is home to a large gas station/grocer with great home office jobs and they'll threaten our city with moving those jobs to another city if they went forward with it but it's worth it just have the discussion.

Mid-size cities, like Wichita, KS, subsidize discount airlines to operate in their cities because they operate at a loss otherwise. similar principal here.

maybe it would be easier for a city to subsidize a losing gas station to keep prices down. maybe not.

this isn't a pure free market in somerset, KY. There has been obvious collusion on gas prices but they can't prove it, even though it's obvious.

#2 | Posted by eberly at 2014-07-24 02:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The venture unnerved local filling station and convenience store operators suddenly competing with the city in this Republican stronghold. Critics said the government has no business imposing itself into the private sector, and one store owner branded it as socialism."

They are just afraid of honest competition.

#3 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-24 02:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

For decades we have been hearing crap that private businesses can do things cheaper than government. Time for the C-stores to sack up.

#4 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-24 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

if the govt was in any kind of position to prove price fixing.....those store owners would STFU in a heartbeat.

#5 | Posted by eberly at 2014-07-24 03:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

I wish my town would do the same thing. We are constantly 15 to 20 cents above the regional average.

Of course there is no collusion, it is just a happy coincidence that the gas station across the street raised their prices the moment the gas station on this side of the street raised theirs. Just a happy coincidence.

The lie that I love the most is when stations will justify raising prices as oil goes up as "well when we buy new gas, the price to us will be higher" then as oil goes down they justify keeping prices high with "well, we paid more for the gas in the ground then we will be buying next week."

#6 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-24 03:57 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

726, it's important to distinguish between wholesalers of gas and retailers. Some are both. A 3 location retailer is telling the truth when you hear that but not the bigger retailers who can buy larger quantities and even wholesale fuel.

The real collusion is between the wholesalers.

#7 | Posted by eberly at 2014-07-24 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"If milk got too high, are you going to build a dairy?" said Ted Mason, executive director of the Kentucky Grocers Association and Kentucky Association of Convenience Stores."

Um, yeah. Why not?

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2014-07-25 01:06 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

It will be interesting to see where this leads... Anytime you have a near monopoly you can pretty much charge whatever you like, so this was a reasonable step by the local government to keep visitors interested.

#9 | Posted by mariosanchez at 2014-07-25 01:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

Actually, many gas stations sell the fuel at almost par and make their money from the contingent sales and services.
Just a primer for those who never had to work such beneath-the-dignity-of-a-
liberal jobs.

#10 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-07-25 02:37 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

P.S. Look up the federal and state taxes on gas. Talk about obscene profits!

#11 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-07-25 02:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

I thought higher gas prices were good, because it encourages fuel conservation and discourages the use of greenhouse-belching fossil fuels?

And unless the city of Bumduck, KY is pumping their own crude out of the ground and sending it to their own refinery, I have some bad news for Eddie Girdler (is that his real name?): you're buying from the oil companies. So, thank you for your continued patronage. and being part of your problem, and my solution. Ching ching!

#12 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2014-07-25 02:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

Typical publicly funded failure. The fuel is only a little less expensive than everyone else and probably only has one pump that doesn't take credit cards.

#13 | Posted by bph320 at 2014-07-25 07:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

"probably only has one pump that doesn't take credit cards."

There were 8 pumps in the video and they weren't antiques so its safe to assume they take cards.

#14 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-25 08:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

I sure miss those old style dial gas pumps.

#15 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-07-25 08:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

On a related note, the station is now the town's largest employer, and features two employees named 'Goober'...

#16 | Posted by catdog at 2014-07-25 08:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

As a general rule, I don't like the idea of government competing with private enterprise UNLESS private enterprise has proven itself incapable of meeting the needs of the people. It sounds as if private enterprise wasn't meeting the needs of the people.

#17 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2014-07-25 08:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Just a primer for those who never had to work such beneath-the-dignity-of-a-
liberal jobs.

#10 | POSTED BY DIABLO AT 2014-07-25 02:37 AM | FLAG:

I ran a C store while in college so you can stick your broad brush bull shot where every idea you have comes out of.

#18 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-25 08:26 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

Typical publicly funded failure. The fuel is only a little less expensive than everyone else and probably only has one pump that doesn't take credit cards.

#13 | POSTED BY BPH320 AT 2014-07-25 07:51 AM | FLAG:

Reading the article is hard werk huh?

#19 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-25 08:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

The level of butt hurt coming from the private gas station owners indicates that they know the gravy train is over and they will now have to really compete.

#20 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-25 08:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

I'd take 3.36 a gallon. Cheapest around here is Sheetz at 3.45 most are in the 3.57 range. Somehow I don't suspect collision between the gas stations though because on the road I drive down to get the kids to school I saw within 3 miles 3.61 to 3.49 today.

With all the links in the fuel supply chain though I am just not sure how much a gas station will do to help the consumer. Good luck though I hope it works out.

#21 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-07-25 08:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

Ah, I love the smell of socialism in the morning. What's being missed here is it's taxpayer funded. While you are paying a few pennies less, the invisible hand of the government is reaching into your back pocket. And this station most likely will operate at a loss but, noooo problem. They'll just reach a little further into your pocket, without telling you of course.

#22 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-07-25 09:21 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

If you don't like the high price of gas - stop buying it. No one is forcing you to purchase gas. For the better part of 6 billion years, earth didn't use gasoline. Why should you whiners be any different?

What YOU think gas should cost is irrelevant. That's the problem with libs - if something is not in alignment with their "values" then there is a social issue to be dealt with in getting put down by "the man" again. Absurd.

Bike to work - better for you, better for the environment. Or walk. Or take the lib limousine - the bus.

#23 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2014-07-25 09:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

Oh my look at the butt hurt that government can provide a product cheaper than a private business. Ouch.

Here's a tidbit for you... I buy my gas and electric from a municipal entity that provides it at their cost which is cheaper than any private company around.

So what happened to the talking point that private business can do anything the government can do cheaper?

#24 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-25 09:33 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

"What YOU think gas should cost is irrelevant."

So is your butthurt. The station isn't selling gas at a loss.

If you read the article, the citizens thought they were being gouged because their town is a tourist destination. The prices in other towns close by are lower. So they did something about it.

No you want to boohoo for bad businessmen who pissed off their customer base so much that they took drastic steps to aquire the commodity another way. They were stupid and greedy and predictably, its coming back to bite them.

You're going to have to learn to get used to the fact that being an idiot sucks.

#25 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-25 09:46 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

put it in perspective....if there is actually an extra $.20 cents a gallon being padded on the price.

One station can sell 8,000 gallons a day. Do the math on how much extra folks are paying in Somerset, KY for gas in a year.

After you do the math, tell me it doesn't make sense for the city to step in and put those prices where they belong.

everybody buys gas.....everybody wins.

#26 | Posted by eberly at 2014-07-25 09:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

"And this station most likely will operate at a loss but, noooo problem"

this is happening because they believe there is an absurd amount of price padding going on in that town.

When a refinery is 75 miles away, why would gas be $.30 higher in one town than one that is even further away from the refinery? Answer.....the wholesalers have gotten together on the pricing.

#27 | Posted by eberly at 2014-07-25 10:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

Oh my look at the butt hurt that government can provide a product cheaper than a private business. Ouch.

Here's a tidbit for you... I buy my gas and electric from a municipal entity that provides it at their cost which is cheaper than any private company around.

So what happened to the talking point that private business can do anything the government can do cheaper?

Are you really that obtuse? Municipalities are subsidized with federal funds to keep prices artificially lower. And where do you think those federal funds come from? You are deceiving yourself to believe that a government run business charges less because they are better business managers.

#28 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-07-25 10:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

When a refinery is 75 miles away, why would gas be $.30 higher in one town than one that is even further away from the refinery? Answer.....the wholesalers have gotten together on the pricing.

#27 | Posted by eberly

Then this is corruption and needs to be investigated, yes?

#29 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-07-25 10:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Are you really that obtuse? Municipalities are subsidized with federal funds to keep prices artificially lower."

The article specifically says the gas is not being sold at a loss. Duh.

"And where do you think those federal funds come from? You are deceiving yourself to believe that a government run business charges less because they are better business managers."

The government run gas station charges less because gas costs less in the region. If you read the article it says how the price is determined. The local station owners were gouging their customers and charging a price that was out of line with the rest of the region and this was the result. Any business owner who drives his customers towards this kind of backlash is a bad businessman.

Look, its not my fault that reality is contradicting your world view in this case. Its not my fault that you want to champion crappy business owners who piss off their customers. Its not fault you were either too lazy to read the article or too dense to understand it. These are all your problems. Go work on them.

#30 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-25 10:17 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

#29

yes.....but proving a conspiracy is very hard to do....especially when the Kentucky Petroleum Marketers and C-Store associations lobby the state legislature effectively.

IMO, this sort of thing is going on in pockets like Somerset and other towns like it around the country....for basically the same reasons.

It sounds like an investigation is warranted if it can be established that this town has consistently had higher gas prices for a considerable amount of time and it would be worth it even if all we get is the embarrassment suffered by these wholesalers for a nice chat in front of the appropriate committees in Frankfort.

#31 | Posted by eberly at 2014-07-25 10:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

A local government actually does something to solve a problem and people who don't even live there get upset because bad businessmen who were warned are going to lose a little bit of money.

The sad thing is, the backlash isn't surprising.

#32 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-25 10:23 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#30: It's obvious you are confusing the difference between how a for profit business operates compared to a non-profit government entity. I am not condoning corrupt business practices, if indeed that is what is taking place. What I'm addressing here is a government run entity that had access to major startup resources already at their disposal, which a for profit business would have to purchase these resources at his expense at startup and forever be a part of his business responsibilities. I'd be surprised if their daily operational cost includes resources already in place that would have otherwise cost a for profit business to acquire.

#32: I don't blame the people who have been given an alternative to higher prices. But, do you think this will just be a local thing and fade from the national press, or is it setting a precedent that other government entities will follow? Can you imagine what this would do on a larger scale? Do you see the slippery slope?

#33 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-07-25 11:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

For those that think gas is a Convenience Store's primary revenue generator, it's more like a loss leader to get you into their store.

Motor Fuel Sales

Convenience stores sell the majority of gasoline purchased in the country - 80 percent of all fuel sold in the United States in 2010. Of the 148,126 convenience stores in the United States, 120,950 sell motor fuels.

Industry Information
Convenience stores sold $385 billion in motor fuels in 2010, nearly triple the $134.2 billion sold just a decade earlier in 1999. In 1989, convenience stores sold $38 billion in motor fuels; in 1979, motor fuels sales at convenience stores were $5.3 billion.

Motor fuels sales accounted for more than two-thirds of the convenience store industry's sales in 2010 (66.9 percent). However, because of low margins, motor fuels sales contributed less than one-third of total store gross margins dollars (26.4 percent).

For anyone who sells fuel, gasoline (all grades) represents 91.4 percent of total motor fuels sales. If a retailer sells diesel, it represents 8.5 percent of total motor fuels sales. Unleaded regular gasoline accounted for 85.0 percent of the gasoline sold at convenience stores in 2010. Sales mid-grade represented 8.9 percent and premium represented 6.1 percent.

Motor fuels gross margins (or the "markup"?) averaged 18.5 cents per gallon in 2011. However, after incorporating expenses, such as debit/credit cards fees - which averaged 4.7 cents per gallon across all payment methods - operating expenses, depreciation and taxes, profit margins in 2011 typically were 3 cents to 5 cents per gallon (average breakeven on fuel sales is around 14 cents). Retailer profit margins over the past five years have averaged 15.4 cents per gallon.

www.nacsonline.com

#34 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-07-25 11:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

Ah, yes...the seeds of socialism. If this gas station starts operating at a loss, guess who will make it up. You know it can't "fail," don't you? I mean, how could anyone compete with a gas station with access to taxpayer money? If all the other gas stations should go out of business, guess who will have a monopoly. If the city government decides it likes the gas station business, maybe they should start a grocery business too?

#35 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-25 11:42 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#34

that's right but that's not what is going on in Somerset, KY.

At least that's the narrative surrounding this story. We're being led to believe there is way more margin in the gas in that region.

#36 | Posted by eberly at 2014-07-25 11:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

"#32: I don't blame the people who have been given an alternative to higher prices. But, do you think this will just be a local thing and fade from the national press, or is it setting a precedent that other government entities will follow? Can you imagine what this would do on a larger scale? Do you see the slippery slope?"

Seems like an unusual set of circumantances in this case. But assuming this does happen in other locales, what is the problem?

#37 | Posted by sully at 2014-07-25 12:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Are you really that obtuse? Municipalities are subsidized with federal funds to keep prices artificially lower. And where do you think those federal funds come from? You are deceiving yourself to believe that a government run business charges less because they are better business managers.

#28 | POSTED BY DANIEL AT 2014-07-25 10:07 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Daniel,

The municipalities have set up these utilities to operate at cost. That means they charge what they buy the product for and the costs of administration. No federal dollars are spent on them. No contribution from the general fund. Self supporting all the way. A perusal of the financial statements shows that.

You can call names all you want, but it does not change the truth no matter how badly you want it to.

#38 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-25 02:09 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

But assuming this does happen in other locales, what is the problem?

#37 | POSTED BY SULLY AT 2014-07-25 12:57 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Another RW talking point will bite the dust.

#39 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-25 02:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Gas prices are higher in all tourist areas. They are even higher in certain locals within a given city. When I take my boat out on the river tomorrow, I will pay about .30 cents more to fill it up on my way to the dock than I would if I drove it back to town and filled it up. Same with pretty much all convenience services. You will pay for the convenience. Also, if everyone starts buying gasoline from this city owned gas station, how much sales tax revenue will be lost that would otherwise have gone to the city?

#40 | Posted by bogey1355 at 2014-07-25 02:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ah, yes...the seeds of socialism.

Good. In this case the government stepped in to help the residents who were getting ripped off by the local private gas retailers.

If this gas station starts operating at a loss, guess who will make it up.

Hypotheticals are such fun.

Let's try.....

If this gas stations operates at break even for a number of years, guess who will still be bitching about it. You. That's who.

#41 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-25 02:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

When a refinery is 75 miles away, why would gas be $.30 higher in one town than one that is even further away from the refinery?
#27 | Posted by eberly

Are you sure it's not the same reason gas costs $.30 more in La Jolla than Imperial Beach.
Gas costs more in nice neighborhoods.
And rich people in nice neighborhoods like it that way.
You think rich people want poor people coming to their nice neighborhoods to buy gas??

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-25 02:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

how much sales tax revenue

Since the end users of the gas are not tax exempt entities, they cannot avoid charging sales taxes.

#43 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-25 02:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Gas costs more in nice neighborhoods.
And rich people in nice neighborhoods like it that way.
You think rich people want poor people coming to their nice neighborhoods to buy gas??"

This particular town doesn't see that as a benefit. The article even says they are hoping lower prices attracts more people.

I live in a town that has high gas prices and work in a town that has one. Any chance I get to fill up somewhere else, I do. I usually fill up when I got see family as they all live in a more rural area where the prices can be up to thiry cents cheaper per gallon.

#44 | Posted by sully at 2014-07-25 02:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

This particular town doesn't see that as a benefit.

I said rich people like it that way. Not that the entirety of the town benefits. Just the people on top. It's like you don't know how things work...

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-25 02:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Snoofy, you're talking about a different dynamic. It's plain to see that locations matter and pricing will be different. Convenience, swankier area, etc.....this price difference isn't under the guise of something else....it's obvious why.

But one rural town next to another rural town with no other differences? and one town is further from the refinery than the other but has lower prices?

it's price fixing.

#46 | Posted by eberly at 2014-07-25 02:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

#46: And it's illegal, unethical and just plain wrong. Somebody needs to go to jail or face a hefty fine. That would go a long way at nipping that in the bud.

#47 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-07-25 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

it's price fixing.
#46 | Posted by eberly

And it's not when the same BP product costs more at La Jolla Arco station than the Imperial Beach Arco station?

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-25 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

#48

I don't know those areas...I'm from Kansas.

but does it take a conversation between 2 different wholesalers to agree to raise prices in one area at the same time in order for what you described to happen?

are you following what I'm saying?

#49 | Posted by eberly at 2014-07-25 03:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

but does it take a conversation between 2 different wholesalers to agree to raise prices in one area at the same time in order for what you described to happen?

It doesn't take a conversation for me to raise my prices after you raise yours.

are you following what I'm saying?

No, I don't think I am.

What's wrong with pricing your gas as expensive as the market will bear? Nothing. What's wrong with some town getting fed up and opening their own gas station? Nothing. What's the point of this thread? ...

#50 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-25 03:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It doesn't take a conversation for me to raise my prices after you raise yours."

no, but you would just leave your prices the same and get all of the business. Gas is very price sensitive within the same locale.

it does take a agreement for us to do this together.

"What's wrong with pricing your gas as expensive as the market will bear?"

that's what we have now except in places like Somerset, KY where competing wholesalers have gotten together to raise prices in the same locale.

what's going to happen is that the city owned store is going to force the competing stores to lower prices to match the city owned store.

they'll do it. afterall, they were making a ton of margin before....they'll still be profitable even at the city's prices.

#51 | Posted by eberly at 2014-07-25 03:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

but you would just leave your prices the same and get all of the business.

Or I would take the opportunity to raise my profit margin while not changing anything else about my business. Demand for gas being fairly inelastic.

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-25 05:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Subsidized gasoline is a very bad idea.

#53 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-07-25 05:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

#52

would you? do you think that anybody in the industry wouldn't take the opportunity to lower gas prices to a point where customers come their way.....and make all of the real profits on the inside sales (soda, chips, etc)?

you would lower your price.

I insure fuel dealers and retail C-store chains....they value the inside sales tremendously as the profit margins for inside sales are much higher.

#54 | Posted by eberly at 2014-07-25 05:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Demand for gas being fairly inelastic.
#52 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

In the short run, but long run studies indicate a 10% hike in gasoline causes demand to decline by 6% in the long run. Traffic will decrease 3% or so.

#55 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-25 05:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Subsidized gasoline is a very bad idea.
#53 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Agreed.

#56 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-25 05:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Subsidized gasoline is a very bad idea."

Letting yourself be abused by gas companies is worse.

#57 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-25 06:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

would you? do you think that anybody in the industry wouldn't take the opportunity to lower gas prices to a point where customers come their way

Why do that when we're the sole suppliers and the rising tide of prices will raise both our boats equally? Plus if I start stealing your customers that might burden me with supply chain imbalances, labor shortages, all sorts of problems easily avoided if I simply follow your lead instead of buck the trend.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-25 06:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

In the short run, but long run studies indicate a 10% hike in gasoline causes demand to decline by 6% in the long run. Traffic will decrease 3% or so.
#55

Um.... In constant dollars gas has doubled since a decade ago. Traffic hasn't decreased.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-25 06:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

I support efforts of the people to squash the excessive greed of the few. The private sector is being purposely M&A'd to death by bankers looking to profit, all so they can make fees and CEOs can squash competition and free markets and jobs.

The Time Warner and Comcast merger will serve the American public with lower costs, more choices, and more corporate customer service? I don't think so. Individual customers will end up having no choice.

Privatization typically ends up costing citizens much more than government because the politicians and CEO get their enormous corrupt cut of the action.

#60 | Posted by Robson at 2014-07-25 08:27 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Privatization typically ends up costing citizens much more than government because the politicians and CEO get their enormous corrupt cut of the action.

#60 | POSTED BY ROBSON AT 2014-07-25 08:27 PM | FLAG: Really? Please to tell us what the government does better and cheaper.

#61 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-07-26 02:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Really? Please to tell us what the government does better and cheaper.
#61 | Posted by MSgt

Health care...

#62 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-07-26 04:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

@ SNOOFY

Preventing. paint thinner from being put into milk.

#63 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-26 06:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Responsibility for the price fixing is passed upstream to the convergence of oil industry management with political power at a level that transcends responsibility. They all have a good laugh then officially blame it on the weather.

#64 | Posted by FlyUntied at 2014-07-26 07:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Health care...

#62 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2014-07-26 04:33 PM | FLAG: Yep, VA health care [govt run] is right up there with the best!

#65 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-07-26 08:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

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