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Wednesday, July 23, 2014

Many of his friends found girlfriends, and settled down quickly into the marriages, homes and families that Paul craved. Some set Paul up with on blind dates, but they rarely went beyond the first meeting. "I just wasn't up to snuff," Paul says, bitterness in his voice. "They were all looking for richer, more successful men." Feeling left out, Paul turned to the Internet, where he fell into an online community that made him feel less alone. ... More importantly, Paul found a way of understanding the world he found himself in. The ideology underlying many of the sites he visited explained his troubles with women. It accounted for women's "deceit" and "arrogance," and helped provide ways to cope and seemingly emerge on top.

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AndreaMackris

 

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Probably the best piece I have seen written on the topic. From initial reasons, to the development of Paul.

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

This author is a clown.

Red pill isn't about regaining confidence. Red pill is about men deciding to live their lives without ----- pandering. It is the natural reaction to women behaving as ruthlessly as men have had to in order to function in the working world. i.e. treat women the same as men(equality).

In the business world would you voluntarily enter into a contract in which other other person can take half of your stuff on account of boredom? You would have to be a moron agree to those terms.

#1 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-23 01:22 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

I knew Mackris posted this article before clicking on it.

#2 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-07-23 01:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sounds like he's on his way to becoming Elliot Rodgers, the Campus Killer.

Or at least joining Spanky's Club.

www.youtube.com

Macrkis and Shawn appear to be running for President.

#3 | Posted by Corky at 2014-07-23 01:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

It accounted for women's "deceit" and "arrogance," and helped provide ways to cope

Real men respect women.

#4 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2014-07-23 02:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I knew Mackris posted this article before clicking on it.

#2 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-07-23 01:25 PM | Reply | Flag:"

Yeah me too.

"Real men respect women.

#4 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2014-07-23 02:29 PM | Reply | Flag:"

Real men treat people with respect until they prove that they deserve otherwise.

#5 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-23 03:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 5

Real men respect women.
#4 | POSTED BY DEREK_WILDSTAR
Real men treat people with respect until they prove that they deserve otherwise.
#5 | POSTED BY SULLY

Its such a bumper sticker statement... really means nothing.....

What does "respect" mean? When do they "prove" otherwise? Is it different for each person given a history? a goal? hunger? a context?

Are you a real man all the time? Do you slip sometimes? Are you perfect?

#1 | POSTED BY SHAWN

I would say the author does the best they can as an outsider to explain it. The RedPill is not about "----- pandering", its about understanding the way the world is, why men are the way they are, and why women are the way they are. Not how we wish it to be....

But the pandering is typically how the man finds this dark corner of the Internet, because it fails and frustrates.

The article presents an idea that men aren't being taught how to date and attract in a society that is changing. [...]

#6 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-23 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Real men respect women.

Yes, they do. And they shouldn't blame their romantic troubles on big dumb negative generalizations about women.

There's some good in the pick-up artist movement when it comes to personal appearance, fitness and building self-confidence. But too much of it turns into misogyny, which is the worst possible lesson to learn if you want to find a good relationship with the right partner.

#7 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-23 06:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

"on big dumb negative generalizations about women."

That's right, not all of them are big and dumb.
Well, not all of them are big.

But i am pretty sure they are all negative, especially on their impact on your wallet.

And none of them can parallel park!

But that's no reason to generalize about them.

#8 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-23 06:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

This article uses a photo of the late Aaron Swartz at the top to illustrate the piece. As an acquaintance of Aaron I find this to be an amusingly bad choice of photo illustration. He was not a man struggling with his role in the world as a romantic partner of women.

He had male and female partners and was comfortable about it, writing this essay:

www.aaronsw.com

#9 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-23 06:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

"And they shouldn't blame their romantic troubles on big dumb negative generalizations about women."

Its not about blaming their troubles on negative generalizations.

Its about using some scientifically backed ideas about how men and women choose mates.

For instance, the idea that men and women look for different qualities in mates, and those qualities change with time. This has been "Generalized" as "hitting the wall"......

Why is science negative?

#10 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-23 07:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

"This article uses a photo of the late Aaron Swartz at the top to illustrate the piece. " - RCade

Having blogged quite bit myself, I can attest to not getting photos from any particular source, only it "matches" on someway your topic.

#11 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-23 07:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Its not about blaming their troubles on negative generalizations. Its about using some scientifically backed ideas about how men and women choose mates.

Read their forums. I read a few after Elliot Rodger's killings. There's an enormous amount of woman hate going on among some current and former PUA adherents. This piece even discusses that.

#12 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-23 07:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sadly groups are usually lead by extremists.

And feminists and masculinists are clearly no exception.

#13 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-23 07:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Real men respect women.

#4 | POSTED BY DEREK_WILDSTAR AT 2014-07-23 02:29 PM | REPLY | FLA

Owning as pair of ----- does not automatically make oneworthy of respect. You're jsut as misogynist as these people, you just paint a more sycophantic face on your misogyny.

#14 | Posted by soheifox at 2014-07-23 09:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

There is truth and irrationality in these sites. There is no question but our Judicial System has different standards and expectations for men and women. Laws are not applied equally to both sexes. Women live in a period political empowerment built with considerable difficulty from a period of not being able to vote. They never got the Equal rights Amendment passed, thanks in no small part to the organized resistance from the Mormons.

#15 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-23 09:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're jsut as misogynist as these people, you just paint a more sycophantic face on your misogyny.

It's pretty twisted that you interpreted a simple call to treat women with respect the way you did. Calling it misogynist is even weirder. How is it woman hating to be respectful to women as a general rule? I'd love to hear that explanation.

#16 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-23 09:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

rcade's article is how all other species except most male ---- sapiens behave.

#17 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-23 10:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

"How is it woman hating to be respectful to women as a general rule? I'd love to hear that explanation."

If i may answer.
That is simple.
If you believe that a class of person is entitled to special treatment it is holding them apart from everyone else. In this case it is women to whom we the comment was made. So to take more out of the comment then i believe is originally intended by it, we could say that while men need to earn respect women should not just because of their physiology thus insinuating that they are not to be treated equal and even possibly lesser as it could be construed as women not being as capable of earning said respect.

While i doubt that was what Derek meant it is a growing sentiment. What many claim is misogyny is no less respectful then their own mentality towards women. Frankly i see it is belittling to women when many who claim to be feminists push for them to be treated as children.

It's equality vs special treatment. Either they are a special class deserving a special and greater treatment or they are equal to men, it cannot be both.

#18 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-23 10:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

I can't give any examples beyond my own experience, but American women have become no fun to be around. The only group they treat worse than men are other women. They are vain, selfish, self centered and have an enormous since of entitlement. Apparently I am not alone in my opinion, many men refuse to play the game any more, there isn't any thing in a long term relationship or marriage to attract them and enormous risk where your partner can suddenly pick up and leave, for no real reason, with every thing you have and leave you with a pile of debt. Courts favor women, the bias is well documented. I think I might hookup with one of those Central American ladies coming up here. They might appreciate decent man, these American women certainly do not.

#19 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-07-23 10:14 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Wow. Women just want you to be fun, a friend, and yet not in the friend zone. Masculine enough to step up to both challenges and challenging them. I don't get where this is so hard for some people, and I don't get why they take on an adversarial "women are the enemy" position when the whole goal is mutual satisfaction.

Happy women put out. All you people obsessed with being "alpha males" need worry about. And most women seem to be happier with a strong partner to either slave or master. (Possible dungeon night not withstanding lol).

#20 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-07-23 10:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think I might hookup with one of those Central American ladies coming up here. They might appreciate decent man, these American women certainly do not.

They will love you forever.... or at least for a long time--go for it

#21 | Posted by badgerwest at 2014-07-23 11:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes, they do. And they shouldn't blame their romantic troubles on big dumb negative generalizations about women.

-------

As I said, that is not what red pill is.

Red pill means treat women like men. i.e. equality.

Would you enter into a contract in which a man can take half your stuff because he wants to 'trade up'?

#22 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-23 11:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

In today's society, good luck keeping a woman/man interested for 5 minutes, much less spend the rest of your life with that person. It's just the way Hollywood and the marriage/divorce industry wants it, keep things superficial and fast paced so that there will always be plenty of business. The sheep eat it up every time.

#23 | Posted by mariosanchez at 2014-07-23 11:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#21 | POSTED

You might want to reconsider Central or South American women. Hollywood and the interweb have spread the cancer of feminism that far and beyond. Most upper and middle class women now expect to see bank statements and know what kind of car you drive before even going on first date. I know from experience and choose to drive my 78 Landcruiser pickup just to repel the gold diggers and trophy wife wannabees. And when they ask what I do I tell them Excavator operator, only then if they choose to continue do I reveal I own the mine. 99/100 times they dont.

#24 | Posted by aescal at 2014-07-24 12:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

This thread teaches me that some women can be a real pain in the ass.

#25 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-07-24 12:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

You will learn.

The key is NOT bringing them back to the states.

You can have a very happy life with women who still enjoy being a woman and remember how.

#26 | Posted by fresno500 at 2014-07-24 03:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

I blame part of this on men. Some men simply have to marry ugly women. Do the math.

#27 | Posted by kudzu at 2014-07-24 07:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

I blame it on the insanely high divorce rate. How many people grow up in a household with a stable long lasting relationship to model their future off of?

If you grew up without that how are you to know how to achieve it yourself. I see it in my own marriage my parents were married until death did they part, my wife in a home with 3 different fathers and lots of time with no father. When we have an argument she jumps very quickly to the move out stage. If I hadn't had the training on conflict resolution I got from growing up in a home with a long term marriage we would have been split up years ago. I do know how to handle it and so when she jumps to the move out stage I know how to bring the conversation back around to mutual accommodation.

It also helps that I have a huge "unit" and she doesn't want to lose access to it. ;)

#28 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-07-24 09:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

If you believe that a class of person is entitled to special treatment it is holding them apart from everyone else.

Respect is not "special treatment." A lot of men carry a lot of negative baggage about women in general. There are examples of it right here in this discussion.

I don't blame men for being mad at specific women, but to blame all women is foolish. It certainly won't help you with women.

#29 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-24 09:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

If you grew up without that how are you to know how to achieve it yourself.

Some children of divorce become more determined to make a marriage work and be there for their own kids. A majority of my friends growing up were from divorced-parent homes, and most of them have been extremely committed to their own marriages.

#30 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-24 09:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

He had male and female partners and was comfortable about it,

#9 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-23 06:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

All you need to know about how lefties define men and women in the current love the one your with mentality.

NO ONE should ever be comfortable having male AND female partners. Just like NO ONE should ever be comfortable having 100 partners. It is absolutely dysfunctional behavior. He may have dealt with having partners of both sexes, but to be comfortable definitely denotes issues.

#31 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2014-07-24 10:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

NO ONE should ever be comfortable having male AND female partners. ... It is absolutely dysfunctional behavior.

Look at you freaking out because a bisexual was comfortable in his own skin. Does that give you a warm and creamy feeling of righteousness inside?

There's nothing wrong with heterosexuality. There's nothing wrong with homosexuality. There's nothing wrong with bisexuality.

You wouldn't think twice if a single guy in his 20s wrote about sleeping with a few women. But because a single guy slept with a few men and women, you get all weird about it and slap the "dysfunctional" label on it.

I hope your freakout ends at some point and you become tolerant of differences in sexual orientation.

#32 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-24 11:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Its such a bumper sticker statement... really means nothing.....

What does "respect" mean? When do they "prove" otherwise? Is it different for each person given a history? a goal? hunger? a context?

Are you a real man all the time? Do you slip sometimes? Are you perfect?"

I agree that "real man" is highly subjective and doesn't really mean anything. Not sure why you're asking what "respect" means though. Look it up, I guess.

My point was really that we should treat others with respect and there is no reason to single out one gender as deserving of respect.

As for proving unworthy of respect, there are many ways to do that. But it boils down to acting like an ass.

#33 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-24 11:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

" murder, rape and cannibalism also occurs in nature - doesn't mean it is "natural" in humans. "

Yes it does. Humans are animals. Society dictates what is acceptable but deviation from standard is a natural trait in all species. Right or wrong it is still "natural".

" But don't sit there and pretend and normalize abnormal behavior. It's ridiculous. "

That i agree with. The term abnormal should not bee seen as purely negative and offensive. Normality is not the greatest thing. Superior intellect is also abnormal. The trick is to accept abnormal as nothing more then observation and see it as only quantification not a method for deriving value.

#35 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-24 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Genocide is natural for humans. So is cannibalism. Normal for your tribe and island is nothing more than a set of socioeconomic adjustments.

Civilization = paying the soldiers on time; and nothing more than that.

#36 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-24 02:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Owning as pair of ----- does not automatically make oneworthy of respect. You're jsut as misogynist as these people, you just paint a more sycophantic face on your misogyny.

#14 | POSTED BY SOHEIFOX

So respecting women is misogynist but hating women isn't. Very funny!

I don't respect women because they need special treatment. I respect all people until they deserve otherwise.

Good people are good and bad people are bad. It's foolish to assume someone is automatically bad because of their gender.

Most in the "men's rights" movement are weak and need a scapegoat.

#37 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2014-07-24 03:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Respect to the high heavens. In the event of divorce, you will still lose, if you are male.

#38 | Posted by fresno500 at 2014-07-24 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Respect is not "special treatment.""

It is when it is given to one group only based on their physiology.
If you are like me and many others respect is given and the person is assumed to be worth of it until they show they are not. If you are one of those no respect until it is earned except for certain groups that is without question a separate class and special treatment.

I don't blame men for being mad at specific women, but to blame all women is foolish."

Any time you just assume that everybody else that is similar in form is the same it is foolish.

#39 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-24 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Most in the "men's rights" movement are weak and need a scapegoat."

Depends on what you mean b men's rights movement. If you are talking about the ones working against the bigotry in the court systems then no, that is 100% valid as anyone who has been through it or any lawyer will tell you.

#40 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-24 04:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

All good men treat all people with dignity, respect is earned.

Love is cherished.

Scorn is reflective.

#41 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-07-24 06:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

American women are different from those elsewhere. If your idea of the American Dream is a selfish, stupid, lazy woman who starts piling on the pounds with the first bite of wedding cake, then count your blessings. You've won the greatest lottery in the cosmos, living in 21st century United States.

But if you have any money, any self respect, any kind of open mind, explore your alternatives. They're everywhere. Literally.

#42 | Posted by WhiteDevil at 2014-07-25 01:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

if u look to the internet to tell you how to be a man then u have already lost

#43 | Posted by danv at 2014-07-25 02:12 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Registered just to post this. I can't speak for most of the websites listed and I've seen my fair share of misogyny on the internet, but The Art of Manliness shouldn't be on that list. Brett McKay has put together a fantastic blog about mens lifestyle that in no way generalizes women as deceitful or narcissistic. In fact, the front page article "The Myth of the Alpha Male" is a clear attempt to break the trend this article claims it espouses.

Furthermore, I'd bet AoM's not the only site unfairly represented in that article. Important story but vague and hamhanded journalism.

#44 | Posted by Katmandu at 2014-07-25 07:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

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