Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, July 22, 2014

Harriet Sherwood, The Guardian: As the sun begins to sink over the Mediterranean, groups of Israelis gather each evening on hilltops close to the Gaza border to cheer, whoop and whistle as bombs rain down on people in a hellish warzone a few miles away. Despite reports that millions of Israelis are living in terror of Hamas rockets, they don't deter these hilltop war watchers whose proximity to Gaza puts them within range of the most rudimentary missiles. Some bring their children.

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Such compassion. Zionism is a disease. United States representatives who support this twisted slow-motion holocaust should be shamed out of office. How can this not inspire a revenge massacre?

#1 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-07-22 02:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't know how you could gather on a hilltop and watch civilians in their homes being bombed. These Israelis know that hundreds of innocent people are being killed.

The situation shows how little some Israelis fear the rockets being fired from Gaza. At least on these hills, war is a spectator sport for one side and a terrifying inescapable reality for the other.

#3 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-22 03:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I don't know how you could gather on a hilltop and watch civilians in their homes being bombed.

i do. read "the banality of evil" by hannah arendt. if you already have, then re-read it.

#4 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-22 03:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

You lack of Military History is Distrubing, but hey were know thats never DR strong points

Anyway, there have been numerous example of civilians watching war being waged throughout time... Matter of fact during the American Civil War the citizens you to go to battlefileds have picnics and watch the war.... So why is today any different???

#5 | Posted by cmbell73 at 2014-07-22 03:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh please.... people came out to watch the twin towers collapse.... was that compassionate?

No one cheered..... other than ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=rKT-9OpneoY

The situation shows how little some Israelis fear the rockets being fired from Gaza.
#3 | POSTED BY RCADE

Hogwash, Israelis have been living under a state of paranoia for a long time, the baseline is just raised. Should they not go outside ever? See UnderAttackBot

They walk into a coffee shop, Restaurant, Club and get their bags searched every time, they are used to it, doesn't mean they don't fear it.

Jul22,21:56 Hamas fired against citizens of Beersheba,Abu Queider & 8 others. #IsraelUnderFire #GazaUnderAttack http://t.co/iD6u7NPLRx -- underattackbot (@underattackbot) July 22, 2014


Jul22,21:56 Hamas fired against citizens of E-Nabari,Eshel HaNasi & 8 others. #IsraelUnderFire #GazaUnderAttack http://t.co/iD6u7NPLRx -- underattackbot (@underattackbot) July 22, 2014


Jul22,21:58 Hamas fired against citizens of Beersheba & 3 others. #IsraelUnderFire #GazaUnderAttack http://t.co/iD6u7NPLRx -- underattackbot (@underattackbot) July 22, 2014


Jul22,21:58 Hamas fired against citizens of Hatzerim,Abu Queider,Abu Tulul. #IsraelUnderFire #GazaUnderAttack http://t.co/iD6u7NPLRx -- underattackbot (@underattackbot) July 22, 2014


Jul22,21:58 Hamas fired against citizens of El-Hamidi,Nevatim,Shaqib al-Salam. #IsraelUnderFire #GazaUnderAttack http://t.co/iD6u7NPLRx -- underattackbot (@underattackbot) July 22, 2014


https://twitter.com/
underattackbot

UnderAttackBot

#6 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-22 03:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

So why is today any different???

hmmm, why is today any different than 1861 when americans sat watching the battle of bull run? well for one, americans no longer own slaves. that's kinda big. another-- we pasteurize our milk and clean the crap out of our drinking water before we drink it. hmmm.... what else? oh yeah, we also tend to put kids into schools rather than coal mines and we don't bleed people to make them better. we also take baths more than once a week. we also don't tend to ply kids alchohol or narcotics to keep them quiet or get them through the night... hmmm, what else....

come to think of it, why am i responding to such a stupid comment??

#7 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-22 03:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"people came out to watch the twin towers collapse.... was that compassionate?

No one cheered..... other than ..."

the 5 dancing israelis on the rooftops of nyc???

#8 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-22 03:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I don't know how you could gather on a hilltop and watch civilians in their homes being bombed. These Israelis know that hundreds of innocent people are being killed."

A shame, isn't it? Hamas sends them back into their houses to be cannon fodder for their pictures of civilian dead to publish....even after Israeli advance warning and everything else.

"The situation shows how little some Israelis fear the rockets being fired from Gaza. At least on these hills, war is a spectator sport for one side and a terrifying inescapable reality for the other."

The truth is that they are probably safer outside on a hill close by than in buildings farther away. Those rockets most likely would have to travel a farther distance to arm too. Ahhh, how naive and misguided our little friends can be.

#9 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-22 03:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

this is not surprising--- not even the posts of those three or four posters on this website (everyone knows who they are) in the vehement defense of those who cheer--

israel and zionism have corrupted the consciences of many many people over the past 100 years.

#10 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-22 03:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

I remember Americans being encouraged to watch W's exciting 'shock & awe'
on TV.

I dont believe most of the viewers were particularly sensitive to the human pain and suffering that our cowardly bombing of civilians and civil infrastructure were visiting on the sovereign nation of Iraq.

Everybody who watched and supported W's "Regime Change" has short memories.

#11 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2014-07-22 03:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

#6 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Waste of bandwidth, Andrea. Just as our little DR friends will mewl, faint and get chills over their messiah who is fund raising out West as we speak, just as they will attack ANYTHING derogatory to anything he says or does, they're going to condemn Israel and defend the peace-loving Muslims who kill their own children, bomb women and children in market places, stone their own women and....aw, what's the use. No hope for them. The only thing that could possibly open their eyes would be a decade or so of living under Sharia law with a dictator. I imagine they even see Iran as a peaceful utopia being mistreated by the bad, bad U.S. and Israel.

#12 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-22 03:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I remember Americans being encouraged to watch W's exciting 'shock & awe'
on TV.
"

big surprise coming--- the architects of the iraq war were, completely, 100% unequivocally pro-israel and beholden to israeli interests in the middle east and back home. zionism infects people in that way-- third person and directly through the media.

#13 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-22 03:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

#7 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-22 03:27 PMFlag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

You have it wrong, or you cant comprehend my sentence. So let me make it really basic for you "People have a natural curiosity about war"

#15 | Posted by cmbell73 at 2014-07-22 03:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't know how you could gather on a hilltop and watch civilians in their homes being bombed. These Israelis know that hundreds of innocent people are being killed.

#3 | POSTED BY RCADE

The Israelis are people. Just like some Conservatives in this country, some people do not believe the other side has any innocent people.

#17 | Posted by Sycophant at 2014-07-22 03:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

"People have a natural curiosity about war"

ok. i get it.

and perhaps you misunderstood me-- israelis en-masse have been corrupted by the banality of evil, and cheering death and destruction is one piece of evidence supporting that.

#18 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-22 03:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Israelis are people. Just like some Conservatives in this country"

you could have stopped there....

#19 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-22 03:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

I remember that first night of the Persian Gulf War when we had excellent TV coverage of the initial bombing of Baghdad. I remember coming home from work and being mesmerized by it for hours, it was like nothing I had seen before. Certainly did not feel like cheering or celebrating though.

#20 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-22 04:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hamas sends them back into their houses to be cannon fodder for their pictures of civilian dead to publish....even after Israeli advance warning and everything else.

The idea that everyone in Gaza is getting "advance warning," so it was their decision to stay behind and be blown up for propaganda purposes, is breathtakingly dumb. How gullible does one have to be to buy that hogwash?

#21 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-22 04:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

how gullible does one have to be to buy that hogwash"

"a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" -paul simon

#22 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-22 04:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

""Did you perhaps serve in Auschwitz?"

Who said that? That's pure Godwin.

#23 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-07-22 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Best live show in the country, kind of like all those spectators at Bull Run, a disgraceful Union defeat.

#24 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-07-22 05:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The idea that everyone in Gaza is getting "advance warning," so it was their decision to stay behind and be blown up for propaganda purposes, is breathtakingly dumb. How gullible does one have to be to buy that hogwash?"

Not NEARLY so gullible as those who believe Hamas and the "Palestinians" are merely victims at the hand of Israel all the time: Get with it, RCade, you and your DR acolytes appear uninformed and ridiculous.

"Israel Warns Civilians to Stay out of Harm's Way; Hamas Sends Them Back In"

"It's exactly as Elder of Ziyon surmised. This isn't an accident or voluntary. It is a policy practiced by Hamas to bring civilians into harm's way.

Finally it's worth noting what IMRA observed about the UN report on the situation in Gaza.

In most cases, prior to the attacks, residents have been warned to leave, either via phone calls by the Israel military or by the firing of warning missiles."

A large share of the casualties in Gaza during Protective Edge, maybe even a majority of them, are the result of Gaza residents ignoring Israeli warning and heeding the siren calls of Hamas."

There's a video here for you as well, in case you learn better with visual aids.

legalinsurrection.com

#25 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-22 05:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

How gullible does one have to be to buy that hogwash?

#21 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-22 04:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

It goes beyond guillibility.

Israeli settler kids who get killed hitchhiking in the West Bank is a major tragedy and heaven forbid anyone suggest that they were put in harm's way unnecessarily (let alone purposefully). Raising your kid in an illegal settlement surrounded by hostiles isn't asking for it at all. (For the recornd, I'm not saying these kids deserved to be killed or that those repsonsible are anything other than scum but I would call their parents irresponsible idiots).

But Palestinians bombed in their homes were asking for it.

That's not simple gullibility. Blatant double standard is more like it.

#26 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-22 05:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

""Did you perhaps serve in Auschwitz?"
Who said that? That's pure Godwin.
#23 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-07-22 04:52 PM

How about "What?! Were you born in an oven?!" :]

But seriously, there is ZERO excuse for this other than a serious NAZI complex - propaganda has a way of dehumanizing everyone involved.

Andreas - Why would Zionists murder Palestinians and then colonize on their remains other than to incite global disapproval? They are zealot martyrs in every sense of those words.

#27 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-07-22 05:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

check this out-- i can be an israeli shill too:

go israel. the TRUTH is all here at this link:

www.idfpropagandasite.org

now, where's my ten dollars, bibi?

#28 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-22 05:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

This isn't an accident or voluntary. It is a policy practiced by Hamas to bring civilians into harm's way.

Civilians are being killed in their own homes and neighborhoods, often with no warning at all. To think otherwise is to show utter ignorance about war.

#29 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-22 06:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Civilians are being killed in their own homes and neighborhoods, often with no warning at all. To think otherwise is to show utter ignorance about war."

Are you referring to Israeli civilians or Palestinian civilians? Or is your major concern deal with which side is more successful. How many civilians killed by the thousands of inaccurate rockets originating out of Gaza with no warning will it take before you decide THAT is barbaric as well? Maybe if they'd quit with the rockets, tunnels for terrorists etc. Maybe if they departed the dark ages and started acting like an advanced society they'd fare better in today's world.

#30 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-22 06:30 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Most Neo-Nazi are Pro-Muslim/ Anti-Jew... That's why you see the Left forming the same stance but by a Different Name... How predictable this Charade.

But let me guess, being Anti-Jew isn't Racist.

#31 | Posted by cmbell73 at 2014-07-22 06:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

But let me guess, being Anti-Jew isn't Racist.

#31 | Posted by cmbell73 at 2014-07-22 06:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Criticizing behavior isn't anti-any group. You're a pathetic race baiter.

#32 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-22 06:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

The people of Germany enjoyed watching the the Nazi's kill the Jews too.

#33 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-07-22 06:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Being anti Israel ≠ being anti jew.

But race baiting is a great tactic.

Hooks GOTPers all the time.

#34 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-07-22 06:59 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

How strange. It's almost like these Israeli civilians are citizen soldiers. Wait, what? Citizen soldiers? Why would they need their citizens to be soldiers? Oh, they have been repeatedly threatened by all of their neighbors, and even ganged up on?

Man, it sure is strange to see people root for their country to win a war and punish the people that indiscriminately lob mortars and rockets at them, right guys?

#35 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-07-22 07:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Man, it sure is strange to see people root for their country to win a war and punish the people that indiscriminately lob mortars and rockets at them, right guys?

Posted by 101Chairborne

They are admirable...doesn't fit the DR template.

#36 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-07-22 07:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

More Americans need enlightened as to how our society as well as others have been truly screwed over for the benefit of a few profiteers and land grabbers.

This is worth a complete read if only in fragments. I can't warranty the accuracy but neither can I do the same from the MSM. I searched for War Profiteering and this was a hit. Yeah I know some might see it as ethnically bigoted but only because the targets are war profiteers like Sen Feinstein.

Few would ever see a problem if the target perps were average Irish, Italians, Muslims, or WASPS. warprofiteerstory.blogspot.com


#37 | Posted by Robson at 2014-07-22 08:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Man, it sure is strange to see people root for their country to win a war and punish the people that indiscriminately lob mortars and rockets at them, right guys?"

How many 8 year old,.s do you think are involved in lobbing mortars and rockets? How many mothers and grandmothers? I can understand they want their troops to succeed in destroying Hamas, but to cheer when people's homes are destroyed? Seems they must have another motive in the back of their minds....like they are hoping the Palestinians will leave Gaza and provide some great beachfront property for Israel to develop.

#38 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-22 08:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Danni,
Their parents should have thought about that prior to electing and supporting Hamas.
If Hamas had the firepower that Israel has, how many Jews would be left alive? Exactly.
You people that support Hamas are bonkers.

#40 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-07-22 08:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

You people that support Hamas are bonkers.

Supporting Palestinians is not the same thing as supporting Hamas.

#41 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-22 08:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

You people that support Hamas are bonkers.

Supporting Palestinians is not the same thing as supporting Hamas.
#41 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2014-07-22 08:35 PM | FLAG:

Isn't that how the propaganda goes?

If your against Israeli's actions towards the Palestinians you hate Jews and are pro terrorism.

#42 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-07-22 08:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sounds like similar to something Eric holder said and your lot agreed with.

#43 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-07-22 09:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

If your against Israeli's actions towards the Palestinians you hate Jews and are pro terrorism.

Yep. The more Israel is in the wrong, the more shrill some of its defenders become. And we can all see with the deaths of hundreds of innocent civilians this week that Israel is in the wrong.

#44 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-22 09:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You people that support Hamas are bonkers."

YOu people who think killing children and blowing up homes is how they should combat Hamas are more so. Our troops went house to house, at great risk to their lives, perhaps that's what Israelis need to do too. Israel has had years to gather intelligence, surely they have a pretty good idea who the active members of Hamas are by now.

#45 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-22 09:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Our troops went house to house, at great risk to their lives, perhaps that's what Israelis need to do too.

I think they're afraid of a long-term ground campaign because they'd take heavy losses and embolden Hamas. Guerrilla warfare against a dug-in, determined foe is brutal to armies.

#46 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-22 09:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

If only your liked whined a quarter as much for the terrorized Israeli civilians. It's as if you're punishing the Israelis for being able to defend themselves while simultaneously cheering on the Palestinians for being inept at genocide, but not for their lack of trying. It's no mystery what Hamas and the Palestinians want dead Israelis. They literally are telling you their goals and you bozos still seem unaware.

#47 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-07-22 09:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's brutal for armies that care about limiting civilian casualties, which is a distinction many of you would be wise to consider.
I keep asking and nobody seems interested in acknowledging the question/point...if the Palestinians had the firepower Israel has, how would they wield it? Asking to be honest is just too much, I know.

#48 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-07-22 09:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

= they're afraid of a long-term ground campaign because they'd take heavy losses and embolden Hamas

Which is what Hamas is attempting accomplish, our local expert on urban terror poodle notwithstanding.

#49 | Posted by Corky at 2014-07-22 09:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

attempting to accomplish (edit!)

#50 | Posted by Corky at 2014-07-22 09:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

If only your liked whined a quarter as much for the terrorized Israeli civilians. It's as if you're punishing the Israelis for being able to defend themselves while simultaneously cheering on the Palestinians for being inept at genocide, but not for their lack of trying. It's no mystery what Hamas and the Palestinians want dead Israelis. They literally are telling you their goals and you bozos still seem unaware.
#47 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-07-22 09:28 PM

Could you please give an example of this "cheering on the Palestinians"? I kinda think you are full of s---t.

#51 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-07-22 09:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

The sentence starts off with "It's as if..."

It's as if you are begging for my attention. Oh, wait...

#52 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-07-22 09:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Supporting Palestinians is not the same thing as supporting Hamas.

#41 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2014-07-22 08:35 PM | FLAG:

Sorry, they are one and the same, and Popular Insurgency can only be supported by the Majority, THATs WHY HAMAS THRIVES!!! Anything else is Deception

#53 | Posted by cmbell73 at 2014-07-22 10:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Flag:

It's brutal for armies that care about limiting civilian casualties, which is a distinction many of you would be wise to consider.
I keep asking and nobody seems interested in acknowledging the question/point...if the Palestinians had the firepower Israel has, how would they wield it? Asking to be honest is just too much, I know.

#48 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-07-22 09:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

No one will acknowledge it because its an asinine question. The Palestinians were never the ones in the position of power, not at any point from the existence of this issue. They were so disregarded, everyone thought it would be a great idea to displace them and put Israel there.

Also where is the limiting of civilian casualties? Do they even give a damn who they are killing? Is there a rocket launcher hiding in every crevice of Gaza now? Because from schools, to hospitals, to isolated homes they are shelling everything. But you know what, 101Chairborne says it's all their frigging fault.

Good call.

#54 | Posted by daniel_3 at 2014-07-22 10:32 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1


Sorry, they are one and the same, and Popular Insurgency can only be supported by the Majority, THATs WHY HAMAS THRIVES!!! Anything else is Deception

#53 | Posted by cmbell73 at 2014-07-22 10:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

They are not one in the same for crying out loud, what the hell is wrong with you people? Is this really what you believe? Hamas is largely a proxy terrorist organization that gets it support outside of Gaza. A huge part of why its even in power is because of the efforts of the US and Israel to weaken and discredit almost every major Palestinian political group. All that's left is the pointless Palestinian Authority that most Palestinians have no faith in and Hamas which they are largely scared of.

Why didn't some morons have this reasoning when there was 9/11 and they were all frigging Saudi's? Yet we go and level Iraq and Afghanistan and decided to support popular Islamist insurgencies all over the middle east? EXCEPT Saudi Arabia of course.

#55 | Posted by daniel_3 at 2014-07-22 10:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#55 | POSTED BY DANIEL_3 AT 2014-07-22 10:42 PM | FLAG: | NEWSWORTHY 1

Sorry but according to Military Definition, it's a Popular Insurgency.... You need to read up on your Military History

#56 | Posted by cmbell73 at 2014-07-23 07:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

I think it is kind of moronic to cheer the bombings of some buildings and the killing of a few palestineans if for no other reason than all the Israelis are doing is creating a few more thousand people who want to seek revenge against Israel. oh well stupid is as stupid does

#57 | Posted by truthhurts at 2014-07-23 07:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

THATs WHY HAMAS THRIVES!

No, Hamas thrives because the Palestinians have for decades been herded into ever-smaller parts of their own land and robbed of their property, then forced to live under Israel's thumb without freedom. Some people are going to take up arms to fight that -- Americans fought a revolution for far less -- and radicalism spreads in an environment like that.

... if the Palestinians had the firepower Israel has, how would they wield it?

I like how you project power onto the powerless to justify killing a lot of innocent civilians. "We had to kill them because they'd kill us if they could!" If that logic had been employed by the Nazis to rationalize what they did in Warsaw Ghetto, I think you'd recognize it for what it represents.

The what-if we should be entertaining is "what if Palestine had a state?" The other Arab states in the region don't attack Israel (aside from Hezbollah's attack from Lebanon in 2006). If given land and freedom, the Palestinians would have a huge incentive to focus on their own security and prosperity and their radicals would be pushed to the fringe.

#58 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-23 07:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

"No one will acknowledge it because its an asinine question. The Palestinians were never the ones in the position of power, not at any point from the existence of this issue."

They were during the first war. They lost because the Israelis were smart and the Arabs were just completely incompetent. They know this is true and that is why they always talk about "humiliation". If the Palestinians were capable of rational decision making, they would have admitted they lost the war and cut their losses 60 years ago.

Neither side is worthy of support or above criticism. The only reason I've been more vocal in criticizing Israel lately is that they manipulate gullible Americans to our detriment and I would like that to stop. We should cut them both off and let them continue to kill each other for the next 100 years because that seems to be what they want.

#59 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-23 09:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

I would venture to guess the majority of the Palestinians and Israelis don't want this war. Remember the famous Nazi quote (and I recognize the irony of quoting a Nazi in a thread about Israel:

Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Goering

#60 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-23 09:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

If the Palestinians were capable of rational decision making, they would have admitted they lost the war and cut their losses 60 years ago.

How would a Palestinian in 2014 cut his losses? Israel continues to take land with new settlements and shows no sign of stopping that.

Your advice is like telling American Indians to cut their losses while the United States was claiming states from the Atlantic all the way to the Pacific.

#61 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-23 10:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

#60 | POSTED BY KANREI

KUDOS, Kanrei! Or, as we used to say in navy jargon, Bravo Zulu. What our radical left buddies on the DR fail to understand is that Russia is led by a fascist with fascist followers and I don't even know how to describe the Muslim leaders and THEIR followers. Here's a clue though.

During the Iran-Iraq War, the Ayatollah Khomeini imported 500,000 small plastic keys from Taiwan. The trinkets were meant to be inspirational. After Iraq invaded in September 1980, it had quickly become clear that Iran's forces were no match for Saddam Hussein's professional, well-armed military. To compensate for their disadvantage, Khomeini sent Iranian children, some as young as twelve years old, to the front lines. There, they marched in formation across minefields toward the enemy, clearing a path with their bodies. Before every mission, one of the Taiwanese keys would be hung around each child's neck. It was supposed to open the gates to paradise for them.

"At one point, however, the earthly gore became a matter of concern. "In the past," wrote the semi-official Iranian daily Ettelaat as the war raged on, "we had child-volunteers: 14-, 15-, and 16-year-olds. They went into the minefields. Their eyes saw nothing. Their ears heard nothing. And then, a few moments later, one saw clouds of dust. When the dust had settled again, there was nothing more to be seen of them. Somewhere, widely scattered in the landscape, there lay scraps of burnt flesh and pieces of bone." Such scenes would henceforth be avoided, Ettelaat assured its readers. "Before entering the minefields, the children [now] wrap themselves in blankets and they roll on the ground, so that their body parts stay together after the explosion of the mines and one can carry them to the graves."

www.matthiaskuentzel.de

If our little friends think that Hamas, Hezbollah, or ISIS doesn't have the same mindset, they are truly beyond seeing reality. Of course I believe the reports that there are fanatics in Gaza orchestrating all the propaganda regarding the Israeli atrocities. It's a horrible shame what they're doing there.
This is all the "Palestinian" sycophants on the DR can parrot while totally ignoring the things being carried out by by the rebels/Russians in Ukraine, ISIS in the "Islamic State." Research what they're doing to Iraqi Christians who have been told to leave, convert or die. They have until Saturday to comply.

#62 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-23 10:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

Is the "occupied land" land that was lost in the 6 day war? Or are they grabbing more land?

#63 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-07-23 10:15 AM | Reply | Flag:


Is the "occupied land" land that was lost in the 6 day war? Or are they grabbing more land?

#63 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-07-23 10:15 AM |

Yes.

There are no "good guys" in this fight, just morons determined to kill one another and two entire populations held in the middle that don't want this war.

#64 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-23 10:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

The real tragedy is the success of dehuminizing the enemy in this fight. Both sides are constantly told the other side is less than human and determined to destroy them for no other reason than pure evil.

Tell a big enough lie often enough and it will be held as truth. This lie has been told to both sides for over 60 years now.

#65 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-23 10:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

"How would a Palestinian in 2014 cut his losses? Israel continues to take land with new settlements and shows no sign of stopping that."

I didn't say they can cut their losses now. They've already screwed themselves. Their best bet now would be to renounce violence - which means Israel will probably grab more land and provoke them in other ways in the short term. Act like rational people for four or five years and try to build relationships with their other neighbors. Try to convince Jordan and Egypt to reclaim the West Bank and Gaza through peaceful means. Or try to make whatever crappy deal they can get from Israel at this point. Or show the world that they are trying to live peacefully while the Israelis continue to steal from them and hope that makes a difference. Not good options but the loser of a war rarely has good options. Continuing a fight they have no chance of winning is their worst option and always has been.

"Your advice is like telling American Indians to cut their losses while the United States was claiming states from the Atlantic all the way to the Pacific.

#61 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-23 10:02 AM | Reply | Flag:"

It wasn't advice. It was an observation. After they lost the initial war despite having every advantage they should have left well enough alone and moved on. Every time they acted up since then they've lost more so at if at any point along the way they would have changed course they'd be better off. Obviously, they can't go back in time. I'm just saying they aren't very good at making decisions where it pertains to their own welfare. And what is particularly idiotic is that they continue to make the same wrong decision for decades and it always makes them worse off. There's no rational excuse for making the same mistake over and over unless you believe that to a man they are mentally challenged.

#66 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-23 10:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

"I would venture to guess the majority of the Palestinians and Israelis don't want this war."

I agree that one some level this is true. But they also but Hamas and Netanyahu in charge.

#67 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-23 10:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Israel continues to take land with new settlements and shows no sign of stopping that."

Hamas, aided, abetted and supported by Iran, still has a charter declaring for the total destruction of Israel, not to mention hexbollah to the north. I suppose Israel would like to extend some borders to keep them farther away. That's a major reason Israel holds on to the Golan Heights. I think Israel would be doing any bombing or invading if those factions would leave them alone. It's interesting that Israel doesn't bomb or invade Egypt...or Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, the UAE...well, you get the idea. Or maybe you just DON'T...

#68 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-23 10:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

After they lost the initial war despite having every advantage they should have left well enough alone and moved on.

You're making the mistake of letting history put you in a box. There will never be peace for Israel and Palestine if you think that way.

What matters is where things are today, not where things were in the '40s or '60s.

#69 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-23 10:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

It's a horrible shame what they're doing there.

It's a horrible shame what you're doing here. You aren't thinking. You're just hating.

#70 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-23 10:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

#66 | POSTED BY SULLY

Excellent post, Sully! I especially agree with your remark about continuing to make the same mistake over and over. These "cease fire" agreements are a mistake for both sides because Hamas uses them to rearm and them starts firing rockets again and again. I think Israel is becoming more concerned now because the rockets are becoming more sophisticated. I also fear that not becoming more serious about Russian expansion, AGAIN, (and I'm not advocating military action) is making another Chamberlain-style mistake...AGAIN. Screw this "flexibilty" with Putin. All tyrants need to be isolated and contained. Let's get some serious military equipment to Ukraine and put those missiles back in Poland and the Chech Republic. Maybe Europe will respond if we start it off.

#71 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-23 10:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

You aren't thinking. You're just hating.

Par for the course with this subject and the very root of the problem.

#72 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-23 10:40 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"I think Israel would be doing any bombing or invading..."

...would NOT be doing....

#73 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-23 10:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Israel would because of the Zionist Hawks (both Jewish and Christian) who have dreams of the end of the world and want Israel to be pre-biblical again. The only way Jebus will return.

#74 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-23 10:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

"You're making the mistake of letting history put you in a box. There will never be peace for Israel and Palestine if you think that way."

I'm not talking about avenging past grievances and all that nonsense. I'm talking about learning from their past mistakes. They aren't going to renounce violence because its the right thing to do. But if they look at their own past and realize that they always get the bad end of things when they pick a fight, maybe the Palestinians will stop.

"What matters is where things are today, not where things were in the '40s or '60s."

They're following the same losing course of action today. That's why the past matters. I don't get why people expect them never to learn anything. They have 65 years of getting their asses kicked that should tell them to avoid fighting Israel. Unless people believe that they are inferior to the rest of humanity in some way I don't understand why they get a free pass on being so stupid.

#75 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-23 10:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Par for the course with this subject and the very root of the problem"

Right again! "Hater" is just a substitute charge for "racist/racism" when they're out of any logical responses.

#76 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-23 10:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

"What matters is where things are today, not where things were in the '40s or '60s."

Not to them. They are fighting over 1967 borders and sibling rivalry between the sons of Abraham: Issac and Ishmal. (sp?)

#77 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-23 10:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Hater" is just a substitute charge for "racist/racism" when they're out of any logical responses.

No, hate is accurate. This war is all over hate because both sides have been raised and conditioned to hate and fear the others. Neither side is thinking, just blindly responding to the most recent event.

#78 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-23 10:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

Is the "occupied land" land that was lost in the 6 day war? Or are they grabbing more land?

#63 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-07-23 10:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

When people talk about Israel grabbing more land they are usually talking about Israel building settlements on land they are already occupying. Theoretically they will eventually leave occupied land. But once they settle and area its hard to believe that they will ever give it back. That's why the settlements are such a contentious issue. Also when the build settlements they tend to divert water supplies and build Israeli-only roads that limit Palestinian movement.

Israel knows that building settlements prevents peace.

#79 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-23 10:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

"They're following the same losing course of action today. That's why the past matters. I don't get why people expect them never to learn anything."

Yes indeed! from the expansion across Europe to being defeated by Santiago in Spain and to being finally defeated at the "Gates of Vienna," it just goes on and on for centuries. The major difference is that they now are gonna be employing WMD any day soon. So many people have absolutely NO idea of their history and the goal they have held since the days of Mohammed. Just listen to ISIS should give them some idea.

#80 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-23 10:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Israel knows that building settlements prevents peace."

So does the stubborn refusal to amend the Palestinian charters and declare that Israel has a right to exist. There WAS a time when Israel even moved some of their own citizens out of occupied settlements to placate Palestinians. That didn't work either. It seems NOTHING ever satisfies their demands. Not just with Israel but look at their demands in Europe and even in the U.S. I know of no other faction whose demands have as much sway as Muslim factions.

#81 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-23 11:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

There is a common mistake made by most people when discussing this story: they speak as if there are two sides: there are not IMHO, but rather 3.

Side one: Hamas who loves war with Israel.

Side two: Zionists who love war with Palestine

Side three: The poor Israelis and Palestinians who are being played as pawns.

It is not about what the third group wants so much as it is what the first two wants. Majority choice would be peace, but that doesn't work for the manipulators.

#82 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-23 11:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

There WAS a time when Israel even moved some of their own citizens out of occupied settlements to placate Palestinians. That didn't work either.

#81 | POSTED BY JESTGETTINALONG AT 2014-07-23 11:01 AM | FLAG:

Maybe that's because they didn't actually do it. In 2005 "disengagement" meant they removed 4 West Bank settlements. Currently there are at least 121 settlements in the West Bank housing 350,000 people.

They didn't just not remove settlements, they grew them and some are now recognized as cities. Bear in mind all of the settlements violate the Geneva Convention, are illegal based on international law, and condemned by over 160 of 170 UN member nations.

#83 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-07-23 11:18 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"There WAS a time when Israel even moved some of their own citizens out of occupied settlements to placate Palestinians."

That's not why they did it. They did it because those settlements were outside the area they thought they could defend. And they've built more since then.

Yes, I understand that Hamas does not accept Israel's existence. But that's not an excuse for theft. If you want to be fair then you have to acknowledge that Israel builds settlements knowing full well that it is provocative, is a huge barrier to peace and that most of the rest of the world considers it illegal. They can't conitinue take land and claim to want peace. Just doesn't make sense.

That said, at this point they should just officially claim the Golan Heights. Syria is basically a failed state so there's nobody left to claim it.

#84 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-23 12:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

54

Bone up on your 20th century history and get back to us.

The Palestinians would kill every Jew they could if the weren't so incompetent.

As for your asking where the limited civilian casualties are, I have to wonder how naive and uninformed you are. Israel could literally flatten every building and kill every civilian with their artillery pieces alone. Or their choppers, alone. Or their tanks, alone. Or their navy, alone. Or their aircraft, alone. Or their troops, alone.

One thing the Palestinians and their stateside cheerleaders lack is perspective. Common sense seems to be in short supply as well. So, when are you guys joining Hamas? Clearly they need your help.

#85 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-07-23 01:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hamas was created by Israel as a counter measure to Hezbollah. Just as the Taliban was created by the CIA to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. This has always been used as a tool to keep the Middle east Divided. And at war with one another. It's the Globalist agenda. One world governance. But the entire world has been brainwashed to believe it's the Palestinian, and the Jewish people who are at War. It's not. It's the New world Order. The Zionists have been given the Middle East by the International Banking Cartels. But Hamas refuses to give up it's piece of the global pie. mean while innocent children are being killed, and the Zionists sit atop a hill and cheer Just like they did when Christians were being thrown to the lions....... The end is near. Doesn't matter which religion you believe. the only solution is complete love for your your fellow man. I'm heading to my cave and will return when mankind is finished destroying one another over lust for power and control.....

#86 | Posted by machineted1965 at 2014-07-23 03:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I'm heading to my cave..."

You gonna be comin' out of your cave on Nov 4th? Please say no....

#87 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-07-23 03:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

54
Bone up on your 20th century history and get back to us.
The Palestinians would kill every Jew they could if the weren't so incompetent.
As for your asking where the limited civilian casualties are, I have to wonder how naive and uninformed you are. Israel could literally flatten every building and kill every civilian with their artillery pieces alone. Or their choppers, alone. Or their tanks, alone. Or their navy, alone. Or their aircraft, alone. Or their troops, alone.
One thing the Palestinians and their stateside cheerleaders lack is perspective. Common sense seems to be in short supply as well. So, when are you guys joining Hamas? Clearly they need your help.
#85 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-07-23 01:56 PM

You bone yourself up. Israel has never really acted to remove it's illegal colonies. Can you point out how I am wrong according to "competent historical context"?

And all the bs surrounding Iran being so "dangerous" - is that why Israel provokes them with 3am flybys to shatter windows? Because they want "peace"?

Or, how the IDF bomb the homes of PLA leadership, murdering their entire family - including three or four generations living in the same house? Peaceful, right?

How many Israeli leaders have experienced these atrocities?

#88 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-07-23 05:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

You have quite a knack for purposefully misreading. It would make things easier if you'd literally just sit up and beg for attention.

#89 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-07-23 05:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

I really had some hope for this region when I attended the "Seeds of Peace" get togethers in Dearborn ten years ago - WTF happened? let's cut the losses and tell the US citizens from that region to forgeddaboutit....Dinners were nice though////Middle eastern food is great - a benefit if you live in metro De'toilet

#90 | Posted by mutant at 2014-07-23 11:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Such compassion. Zionism is a disease."

People did the same at the Battle of Bull Run.
Unfortunately, they watched their team lose.
Does that mean Unionism, Federal Supremacy is a sickness?

#91 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-07-24 02:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

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