Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, July 17, 2014

William Pfaff: When Israel's President Benjamin Netanyahu and his propagandists repeat and repeat that Gaza's Hamas is responsible for this crisis, they are wrong. In Gaza -- as on the West Bank -- Israel has been and remains in illegal military control of lands and people who, under international law and the 1948 United Nations decision awarding two defined and separate parts of Mandate Palestine to Jews and Palestinians, should be a free people in possession of their own lives and property. That is why war goes on by embittered Palestinian militants, accompanied by willing hostages who are their own supporters, meeting brutal reprisals from their Israeli jailers.


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The United States and the nations of the European Union should defend the Arab victims of these events, and not the perpetrators of their oppression. That, paradoxically, is the only thing they can do that might eventually save Israel as well -- from itself.


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Shawn, you fail to mention that on the day of transition in 1948, Israel was attacked by the Arab States and the Palestinian's with the intent to drive all of the Jews into the sea. That the Palestinian's will accept nothing less than all of Israel to be in their hands as their state, with no Jews, and the fact that the Israelis no longer want a two state solution is why the war goes on.

#1 | Posted by Anon451 at 2014-07-15 07:57 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

You are obfuscating. Get a different power point presentation.

#2 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-15 08:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Shawn, I don't think the word 'obfuscation' means what you want it mean. Somebody pointing out how subjective and devoid of meaningful /truthful facts your posts are is not 'obfuscating'.

#3 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-15 08:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

You are also obfuscating.

#4 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-15 08:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The disputed territories fall in the minds of many under the category "spoils of war". The Arabs attacked the Israelis and used those territories as staging points to do so. Israel took the land from the Arabs as a result, in part to mitigate risk of further attacks from those territories. If they gave back the West Bank, Shawn, how long do you think it would be before rocket attacks started originating from there? A week? Two?

I'm curious if you think every nation or people that ever kept the lands they won in war should return them to the previous owners, back through time ad infinitum? Where do you draw the line between valid occupation and invalid occupation?

#5 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-07-16 08:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

"After the Palestinians fled the fighting in 1948 their homes were confiscated. The Palestinians who had lived for centuries were denied their "right to return."
Under international law the military occupation and subsequent ethnic cleansing of the "disputed territories" are war crimes, not "spoils of war."
I support Israel, but not their crimes. I fear those crimes will be used by the world to rationalize another round of world wide antisemitism." -- friend of mine.

#6 | Posted by ichiro at 2014-07-16 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Given a choice between spending 10 years in a US prison or 10 years in Gaza... I would choose prison. Prisons have access to more things then the people of Gaza do, probably safer too.
Maybe someone can explain to me why Israel would ban musical instruments from Gaza... seems like that's not about being safe as much as it is about being cruel.

#7 | Posted by 503jc69 at 2014-07-16 02:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Maybe someone can explain to me why Israel would ban musical instruments from Gaza...

#7 | POSTED BY 503JC69 AT 2014-07-16 02:31 PM | FLAG:

It only happened during a brief period when they were investigating a kidnapping of an IDF soldier by Hamas. Everything except basic food and medicine was temporarily halted.

#8 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-07-16 03:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Can someone explain to me why Americans should be concerned about either side?

#9 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-07-17 04:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

Can someone explain to me why Americans should be concerned about either side?

Americans are concerned because Israel is a socialist democracy. One which shows what is possible here, why liberals tear it down is beyond any conceivable rationality they have laid out.

Prisons have access to more things then the people of Gaza do, probably safer too.
#7 | POSTED BY 503JC69

Says more about our prisons than Gaza. Voting for the wrong party in Gaza gets you thrown off buildings.

The violence, except at the formation of the two state, typically was outside of Israel/Palestine, it became an internal conflict between the two at the First Infitada.

It of fomented by that Arab states, but they don't want Palestinian refugees.

I have heard the cry that Israel is oppressing the Palestinian people.

Which is more oppressive, Israel, or the Hamas.

Is Israel more oppressive than Hamas on
Other religions?
Political parties?

When one says Israel is oppressive, they are forgetting or willfully ignoring the oppression which is being wrought by the Islamic radicals on the Palestinian people.

#10 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-17 11:28 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The complexities and paradoxes of Israel on moral and politcal levels are things people could spend a lifetime arguing over. And they do.

If you point out something good and redeeming about Israel, the person next to you can point out something unjust and cruel about Israel. If the person next to you points out something cruel and unfair about the conditions under which Palestinians exist, you can point out the cruel and irrationals ways Palestinians seem always intent on making all bad situations worse for everyone else.

Nobody is really gonna convince anyone else that either side is virtuous or has clean hands.

For me, I always come back to the fact that the people of Israel by and large share our values as Americans and usually strive to do the right thing. I acknowledge that they often fail, and similar to GWB's catastrophic adventure in Iraq, sometimes the Israelis fail spectacularly causing tremendous harm.

#11 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-07-17 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

Shawn - I hope you had a big breakfast there is going to be a lot of strawmen you will have to knock down.

#12 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-07-17 11:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

"For me, I always come back to the fact that the people of Israel by and large share our values as Americans and usually strive to do the right thing."

Since when? I don't know that we usually strive to do the right thing either but that's definitely not Israel's main concern.

I don't think either side is worthy of support. I don't think either side even likes us. Israelis are pretty quick to turn on any American who suggest that just maybe a true friendship would look less like a parasite-host relationship

#13 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-17 12:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bottom line, because of guilt over the horrendous abuse of Jews by Germany during WWII, Western Powers (Primarily England) decided to shove these people down the Arabs throats. Arabs had no say in this decision and surrendered land and water in order for the State of Israel to be created. Nothing was surrendered in the way of German land or water. Just take it from the people that had nothing whatsoever to do with WWII. Then claim Palestinians are "aggressors" and "a threat to Israel" when it is the other way around. Israel is doing what we did tot he Indians, driving them off their land, stealing.

#14 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-17 01:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

That little sliver of land is precious to both religions, that's the problem. We all know that under Israeli control, the muslim parts remain there for muslims to see and visit. What would happen if Muslims controlled the entire area? You think Christians would be able to visit our holy sites? And be honest with yourself....

And just remember in Iraq, Jonah's tomb was just desecrated...By radical muslims..

#15 | Posted by boaz at 2014-07-17 01:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Boaz, israel IS blowing up mosque's. Care to compare them with radicals?

I have also been to the Dome of the Rock during high prayers and it was amazing.

#16 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-07-17 05:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

No nutcase, it has nothing to do with guilt. That is the propaganda. The real reason is oil. That was why the state of Israel was established, and it is why it is still protected from UN resolutions/funded/etc.

People in power didn't care about Jews/gypsies/etc during ww2, and they still don't any more that they care about other Semites nor Latino kids now. It is just embarrassing for them when their hypocrisy is elucidated.

#17 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-17 06:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Palestinians never had control of any territory before Israel became a state. Jordan had the West Bank, Egypt had Gaza and Syria had the Golan Heights. After Israel defeated Syria, Jordan and Egypt they took control over those territories. They gave the Arabs Gaza-look how that has turned out. Israel gave up the Sinai. The UN has never censured the Arabs, but has censured Israel many times even when they were not the aggressors. Arabs in Israel have more civil rights than they do in any Arab Muslim controlled area.

#18 | Posted by Donald at 2014-07-17 09:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Calling #18 propaganda would be like calling water wet. I could pull out the laundry list, but it is perfectly obvious that you wouldn't care.

#19 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-17 11:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

I could pull out the laundry list, but it is perfectly obvious that you wouldn't care.

I am sure you couldn't.

I would care too, but you really have nothing. Palestinians have been unable to organize as a political unit. Other than behind a terrorist organization.

I don't blame the Palestinians for it, watch some Israeli, or Palestinain films, they just want work.

No the evil is in the Arab states that fund Hamas.

But you wouldn't care about that.

#20 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-17 11:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ah Shawn,

Why would you support a people that oppress Gays, Women, other religions?

Why? What evil in the world has Israel perpetrated upon those that don't deserve some retribution?

#21 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-07-17 11:46 PM | Reply | Flag:


While England made it happen it was in response to a long hard campaign by fundamentalist Jews to re-establish a homeland and fulfill alleged Biblical prophesies. All kinds of pressure was applied including guilt over WWII crimes.

While your description of US leadership motives is spot on, the public is told another story. Oil is not the reason the Jews chose the location of their homeland. But, its a self fulfilling prophesy that plays well with Evangelical, Mormon and other American Christians.

#22 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-07-17 11:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

What evil in the world has Israel perpetrated upon those that don't deserve some retribution?

#21 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2014-07-17 11:46 PM | FLAG:

They dispossessed 3+ generation land owners to kick off the hostilities.

Kind of a ---- move.

#23 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-07-18 08:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

Not to mention the "Jewish Insurgency". The minority jews waged a violent campaign against their local government to seize power in the mid 40s. This was the precursor to the first Israeli-Arab war. It's not like the Israelis were just jumped on out of the blue, the history of violent conflict both ways is quite intense.

#24 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-07-18 08:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

You are obfuscating andrea and nutcase. Both of you have no argument and are again attempting to change the subject with a plethora of ad hominum attacks, straw men, etc. Behind it all you are apologizing for fascism.

#25 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-07-18 11:19 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1


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