Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, July 02, 2014

John Mulligan, the interim CEO of Target: As you've likely seen in the media, there has been a debate about whether guests in communities that permit "open carry" should be allowed to bring firearms into Target stores. Our approach has always been to follow local laws, and of course, we will continue to do so. But starting today we will also respectfully request that guests not bring firearms to Target -- even in communities where it is permitted by law.

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We've listened carefully to the nuances of this debate and respect the protected rights of everyone involved. In return, we are asking for help in fulfilling our goal to create an atmosphere that is safe and inviting for our guests and team members.

This is a complicated issue, but it boils down to a simple belief: Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create.

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Better change store name to "Aimlessness".

#1 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2014-07-02 11:44 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

If you don't want guns in your store, perhaps you should remove the huge bull's eye you have on it.

#2 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-02 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

Good for Target. Let's keep these dorks out of commercial entities where regular people may be found.

Meanwhile, it's getting easier to walk around with a Winchester pump than with an open beer. Something is wrong here...

#3 | Posted by catdog at 2014-07-02 11:54 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Did they have a problem with people showing up with guns before?

I agree with their stance but I'm wondering why the CEO felt the need to release a public statement that is undoubtedly going to tick off some his less reasonable customers.

#4 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Brought to you by the BRAVE french.

#5 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-07-02 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

#4 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 12:04 PM

Because the Open Carry Texas clowns have been showing up in their stores with assault rifles and it took a while for a "corporate" response to get formulated.

P.S.
What the hell do the French have to do with this? Target's based in Minnesota.

#6 | Posted by morris at 2014-07-02 12:15 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

I'm wondering why the CEO felt the need

A growing boycott backlash by rational people who don't feel the need to bring their toys everywhere like a four year old does.

#7 | Posted by 726 at 2014-07-02 12:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Re #6-7, thanks I didn't know that the were having issues already.

Pretty funny that Open Carry loons insist on continuing their activities despite the fact that the general public has reacted negatively and they are obviously harming their cause. It is as if they get off on being treated the same way a person walking around with a load in pants is treated.

#8 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 12:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"Pretty funny that Open Carry loons insist on continuing their activities despite the fact that the general public has reacted negatively and they are obviously harming their cause."

That is usually the way protests go.
Were the blacks only receiving positive?
Were the gays?
Were the women?
Were the veterans?

Should they have all just given up? [...]

#9 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Anyone shows up in a store I'm at with a rifle on their shoulder I'm shooting first and asking questions later. I wonder how many of these so-called "patriots" (whatta laugh) will continue to "open carry" after a few of their number have been culled from the herd.

"Just standing my ground, officer. He looked threatening with that AR-15, so I shot him in the back of the head."

#10 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-07-02 12:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Just standing my ground, officer. He looked threatening with that AR-15, so I shot him in the back of the head."

#10 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-07-02 12:46 PM | Reply | Flag

Put your hands behind your back dumbass-Officer

#11 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-07-02 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Harry Powell, Internet Badass.

#12 | Posted by rearendhat at 2014-07-02 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

#9 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Your comparision to the civil right is nonsensical. The Open Carry idiots aren't campaigning FOR anything. They already have the right to carry in public. What they are doing through their childish and irresponsible behavior is making peole rethink that right and forcing private property owners to come out and say "Since you can't be adult about this we're going to have to ban your guns from our property".

So you can pretend all you want that they have a cause but the reality is that they don't.

Rational gun owners hate them and understand that they are working against gun rights.

Really the only logicial conclusion one can reach about the Open Carry jackasses is that they enjoy trolling people and making them uncomfortable.

#13 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

What the hell do the French have to do with this? Target's based in Minnesota.

#6 | Posted by morris

It is french owned ace.

#14 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-07-02 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Gun nuts really are little girls. Sorry Sallys, I call 'em like I see 'em.
Just using the NRA mantra of "shoot first, shoot anything". Got a problem with that, call Wayne LaPierre (typical it's a French name)

#15 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-07-02 12:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

It probably won't make anyone any safer as a shooter will do what he/she wants regardless, but they should have a right to request it.

#16 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2014-07-02 12:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Put your hands behind your back dumbass-Officer

#11 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-07-02 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

LOL. That's definitely a possibility but as long as Harry doesn't have a video camera in his store, he could probably get away with it. In stand your ground states, if there are no other witnesses and the dead guy was armed, how can you really prove that the shooter wasn't being threatened? "See that gun next to the corpse? Well he levelled it at me and told me to empty the register right before I shot him."

#17 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 12:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It is french owned ace."

#14 | Posted by Sniper

Care to bet?

"Target Corporation is an American retailing company, founded in 1902 and headquartered in Minneapolis, Minnesota. It is the second-largest discount retailer in the United States, Walmart being the largest.[6][7] The company is ranked 36th on the Fortune 500 as of 2013 and is a component of the Standard & Poor's 500 index."

en.wikipedia.org

#18 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-07-02 12:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why do small government conservatives want the government/UN/Obama admin to force businesses into acting against their will?

#19 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2014-07-02 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#17 Except the moron told the officer the guy only "looked threatening" not that he "leveled his weapon at me."

#20 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-07-02 01:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why do Reoublicans need to be armed to go buy a shopping cart full of little Debbie snacks, vaseline, and white wine spritzers?

#21 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2014-07-02 01:09 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

I don't feel comfortable shopping at Target unless I have my AR-15.

#23 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2014-07-02 01:13 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Your comparision to the civil right is nonsensical."

Hence the false equivalency comment. Equating anything to the civil rights movement is typically the mark of an intellectually dishonest argument. I was poking fun at the way it is often used.

#24 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 01:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

#17 Except the moron told the officer the guy only "looked threatening" not that he "leveled his weapon at me."

#20 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-07-02 01:09 PM | Reply | Flag

Yeah, he'd need a better story. Since people have become more aware of SYG, I've read a few stories where someone who shoots and kills another person and doesn't understand that it was illegal when the cops show up.

#25 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 01:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

[...]

"The Open Carry idiots aren't campaigning FOR anything. They already have the right to carry in public."

That is again not true. Not all states allow open carry. Specifically Texas, which is at the center of this, does not allow open carry of handguns. Hence the carry of rifles in protest.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle.

#26 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 01:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Snippy, show us a link that proves Target is French owned, ace.

#27 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2014-07-02 01:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

The whole "Target is French" thing started I believe when us hipsters in the 90's gave alternative names to everything. McDonald's became "Mickey D's," Burger King was "BK Lounge" and Target was "Tar-jay."

#28 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-02 01:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

What the hell do the French have to do with this? Target's based in Minnesota.
#6 | Posted by morris
It is french owned ace.
#14 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-07-02 12:52 PMFlag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

lie much ace?

#29 | Posted by cjk85 at 2014-07-02 01:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Is Target French?

www.snopes.com

No, they are not.

#30 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-02 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Molly Snyder, a Target spokeswoman, said the retailer will not post signs at its stores asking people not to bring guns inside. "It is not a ban," she said. "There is no prohibition." www.startribune.com

Organized protest is one thing. Carrying in a retail environment "because I can" is another, it's just plain rude.

#31 | Posted by et_al at 2014-07-02 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Why do you need a gun in Target? Because sometimes there is only one copy of Marley and Me priced at $4.99.

#32 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-02 01:40 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 3

Since people have become more aware of SYG, I've read a few stories where someone who shoots and kills another person and doesn't understand that it was illegal when the cops show up.

#25 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 01:17 PM | Reply | Flag

I think some of that is when the media covers some of these stories don't cover them honestly. Perfect example was the lady down in Florida who fired a warning shot into the wall when her husband/boyfriend was threatening her and her children. The media left out the part where she left the house to get the pistol and came back to the house. The media just covered it as "she was locked up b/c she was black" the way they usually do.

#34 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-07-02 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I think some of that is when the media covers some of these stories don't cover them honestly."

The one I was thinking of was the one where the guy shot a kid in the head for pulling into his driveway and when the cops showed up he seemed to think what he did was OK.

Then there was the guy who admitted to administering "finishing shots" to those kids who broke into his house. He would have been OK if he had just shot them once.

#35 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then there was the guy who admitted to administering "finishing shots" to those kids who broke into his house. He would have been OK if he had just shot them once.
#35 | POSTED BY SULLY AT 2014-07-02 01:57 PM | FLAG:

He also set up a hunting blind in his basement, hid his vehicle down the street, then tape recorded the whole thing.

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-07-02 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wednesday July 1st

A 9-year-old boy who was shot in a hunting accident July 1st in the southwest Valley was flown to a hospital in very critical condition, according to a Maricopa County Sheriff's Office spokesman.

The boy was shot in the upper-neck area at 5 a.m. Wednesday morning said Deputy Joaquin Enriquez, a Maricopa County Sheriff's Office spokesman

Every hour, of every day, someone is injured or killed, in a gun "accident"

Sammy in GUN CRAZY Arizona

#37 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-07-02 02:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

#37

Hunting is one of the safest activities in this country. I think the only two that had less injuries per person were billiards and camping. [...]

#38 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hunting is one of the safest activities in this country.

#38 | Posted by salamandagator

That's why you always need one in Target stores. To shoot at the deer there for the sales.

#39 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-02 03:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

That is not true at all. No one hates them aside from those who have irrational fear of inanimate objects.

Open carry nuts are not inanimate objects.

AS for me... I don't hate them. No more than I would on hate rabid dogs. I would just shoot em and bury em and be done with it.

It is only a matter of time before someone "stands their ground" against these nuts.

#40 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-07-02 03:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

#38 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

You realize the whole "phobia" thing is a strawman, right?

What makes people nervous about someone who brings a rifle into a Target isn't just the rifle but that its being carried by someone who for whatever deranged reason feels the need to be armed at a Target store.

A "phobia" is an irrational fear. It isn't irrational to be leary of someone who is exhibiting abnormal behavior expecially if that behavior involves lethal weaponry.

#41 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 03:29 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 5

Damn, I got it wrong.

wiki.answers.com

#42 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-07-02 03:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

" It isn't irrational to be leary of someone who is exhibiting abnormal behavior "

Careful with that one. think about what you would define as abnormal. Is it something only 5% of people do? 1%? Now apply it universally and see where your thinking would get us.

#45 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 03:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Applying unreasonable motivations is a strawman though."

Given that there is no reasonable excuse for someone to bring their rifle to a Target and it is common knowledge that such behavior tends to make others uncomfortable all that we are left with are unreasonable motivations.

If someone is picking his nose and eating it in a crowded elevator, I don't have to guess at whether or not he's making rational decisions. What I've observed tells me all I need to know.

Same thing here.

#46 | Posted by sully at 2014-07-02 03:40 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Sammy...CRAZY Arizona

I see why you never source your posts. Doing so would reveal your spin deflects from the real story.

Of course, a ricochet is never an "accident." www.kpho.com

#47 | Posted by et_al at 2014-07-02 03:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Yup and the idea that a gun will magically make someone do something they would not have is irrational."

Nobody said that. Bringing a rifle into a store is already abnormal. It is perfectly reasonable to be wary of someone who is armed and exhibiting abnormal behavior. That you can't understand this is your problem, not everyone else's.

#48 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 03:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Given that there is no reasonable excuse for someone to bring their rifle to a Target"

But that is not true.
Again you are assuming that they are doing so with the purpose of using inside the store rather then just carrying it with them wherever they may go.
They carry rifles because they believe it is wrong to restrict the carrying of pistols. It is a legitimate reason even if you do not agree with it.

"such behavior tends to make others uncomfortable all that we are left with are unreasonable motivations."

As pointed out there is a reasonable motivation. And what was stated is not the only one.If nothing more it could be claimed that it is to help ease the phobias as the more you see them them less they bother you.
For instance, it it was a cop in the store with a gun on his hip does anyone think twice? No people have accepted it and are not afraid because it is normal to see. Well, if people are accustomed to it no one is afraid, so get them accustomed. Is rural areas it is not uncommon at all and no one even cares, bringing this to a larger populace would be furthering that cause.

#49 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 03:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

It is french owned ace.

#14 | Posted by Sniper

Really? I'm pretty Target is stockholder owned, ace.

www.marketwatch.com

#50 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-07-02 03:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is it something only 5% of people do? 1%? Now apply it universally and see where your thinking would get us.

#45 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 03:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Its not just that less than 1% of people behave this way. It is also that most people find it socially unacceptable and we all know this. Its irresponsible to intentionally make others uncomfortable when a weapon is involved too.

#51 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 03:49 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Again you are assuming that they are doing so with the purpose of using inside the store rather then just carrying it with them wherever they may go."

That's even less rational than the example I gave of bringing it into a store.

What legitimate reason would anyone have for always carrying a rifle around?

Don't tell me that they are protesting restrictions that don't exist because that protesting imaginary restrictions isn't rational behavior.

#52 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 03:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Bringing a rifle into a store is already abnormal."

Statistically, sure in most places. But as i said before if we are only to use statistics to set abnormality then we have a much larger issue. It is abnormal to wear a band t-shirt who only had 50 printed up should they be feared? It is abnormal for a man to wear woman's panties should YOU be feared?

How many of these open carry guys commit crimes? Far less then the normal population. That makes fear of them above any random person irrational.

#53 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 03:51 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

"Don't tell me that they are protesting restrictions that don't exist"

You clearly need to research the subject. Open carry of pistols is banned in Texas. You should no that before making judgments on the protesters and demonstrators. The purpose of the open carry movement in Texas is largely to have the law changed to allow that.
If you are going to argue the issue you should at least know what it is even about.

#54 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 03:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If nothing more it could be claimed that it is to help ease the phobias as the more you see them them less they bother you."

As already stated, the phobia thing is imaginary. Imaginary things can't be involved in reasonable motiviations.

"For instance, it it was a cop in the store with a gun on his hip does anyone think twice? No people have accepted it and are not afraid because it is normal to see."

Because the cop has a rataional movitation for carrying the gun. This also disproves your "phobia" strawman as nobody is afraid of the cop's gun.

You're not going to desensitize people to irresponsible behavior with firearms. It isn't a rational goal either.

#55 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 03:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's even less rational than the example I gave of bringing it into a store."

Is that not the reason you think they carry in a store?

#56 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 03:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Statistically, sure in most places. But as i said before if we are only to use statistics to set abnormality then we have a much larger issue. It is abnormal to wear a band t-shirt who only had 50 printed up should they be feared? It is abnormal for a man to wear woman's panties should YOU be feared?"

You apparently don't understand what abnormal is. Its not that just few people do it. Its that it is socially unacceptable and irresponsible. The fear comes in because the person is behaving inappopriately with a deadly weapon.

"How many of these open carry guys commit crimes? Far less then the normal population. That makes fear of them above any random person irrational."

Every mass shooter every is open carrying. You won't know the difference until they open fire.

#57 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 03:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Because the cop has a rataional movitation for carrying the gun."

So it is reasonable for a cop to carry because he might have to protect himself but no one else?
That is asinine.

"You're not going to desensitize people to irresponsible behavior with firearms."

Except that it does occur and used to be the norm. It's kinda hard to say you can't do something when there are tons of examples of it being done. And again how it it irresponsible? How many open carry guys have hurt others by doing so?

I don't think there is one instance even though this iteration is growing. How can you consider the fear rational if the thing that you say you are afraid of is not even in existence?

#58 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 03:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You clearly need to research the subject. Open carry of pistols is banned in Texas. You should no that before making judgments on the protesters and demonstrators. The purpose of the open carry movement in Texas is largely to have the law changed to allow that."

Creeping people out by carrying a rifle into a Target works against that goal. Protesting in favor of something by engaging in behaviors that will turn public opinion more strongly against it isn't rational.

#59 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Its that it is socially unacceptable and irresponsible."

Socially unacceptable. Lets start there. How do you change society? Just by hoping the issue magically goes away? No you fight to have something become socially acceptable.
After all it used to be and still is in a lot of areas.

Irresponsible. Well i just went through that. Just because you don't like someone or something they do does not make it irresponsible.

#60 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So it is reasonable for a cop to carry because he might have to protect himself but no one else?
That is asinine."

The cop isn't trynig to protect himself from the other shoppers at Target. The cop may be called away to go confront a dangerous criminal at any time.

Did you really not know that?

#61 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

" Protesting in favor of something by engaging in behaviors that will turn public opinion more strongly against it isn't rational."

Would you apply that to the pride parades?

#62 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The cop isn't trynig to protect himself from the other shoppers at Target. The cop may be called away to go confront a dangerous criminal at any time."

And a dangerous criminal could confront you at any given time. Whats your point.

#63 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Anyone shows up in a store I'm at with a rifle on their shoulder I'm shooting first and asking questions later."

Chicken Hawk.

#64 | Posted by sames1 at 2014-07-02 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Creeping people out"

It is not their fault if some people are subject to the same phobia you seem to be.

#65 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Irresponsible. Well i just went through that. Just because you don't like someone or something they do does not make it irresponsible.

#60 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's the real problem here. You've consistently demonstrated through your posting history that you have no concept of responsible gun ownership.

Carrying around a gun in a setting where you know it is A) not needed and B) therefore likely to make people nervous or think you are about to commit a violent crime IS irresponsible. Very much so.

I know you honestly don't think so. But that is a shortcoming on your part. Guns are not toys. They are not accessories. Its a horrible idea to carry one around in a setting where you know that your intentions are likely to be misunderstood.

#66 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 04:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

And a dangerous criminal could confront you at any given time. Whats your point.

#63 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

And you assign phobias to others. Classic. Do you suffer from Targaphobia?

#67 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 04:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Target can expect to see their sales increase in open carry areas.

#68 | Posted by Tor at 2014-07-02 04:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Carrying around a gun in a setting where you know it is A) not needed and B) therefore likely to make people nervous or think you are about to commit a violent crime IS irresponsible. Very much so. "

Irresponsibility is not something that is defined by others irrationality as you would have us believe. The open carry crowd has demonstrated that they are more then capable of safe conduct time and time again. They have a perfect track record as far as i am aware of. You call it irresponsible when nothing they have done even hints at that aside from causing you to irrationally fear them. That is not their fault, that is yours. Some people are afraid of dogs that does not mean it is irresponsible to have your dog with you.

Now let me address the not needed part. You obviously are not understanding what the statement and purpose they are trying to make is. To that, you need to do a bit of research and become informed so you will realize with the rest of us how unfounded your statement is.
You are continuing to place motivations on them and disregarding what their stated motivations are as well as all motivations that make and sense.

Justifying irrational fears by denying reality is exactly what you are trying to do.

#69 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 04:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

"And you assign phobias to others. Classic. Do you suffer from Targaphobia?"

Is it an irrational fear that prompts most people that carry guns?

#70 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 04:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

The media left out the part where she left the house to get the pistol and came back to the house.

No, it didn't. That story happened here in Jacksonville, and her getting the gun was widely reported.

#71 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 04:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Some people are afraid of dogs that does not mean it is irresponsible to have your dog with you.

It is irresponsible to take that dog into places where dogs are not allowed or should not be. It is also irresponsible if you KNOW you are frightening other people with your dog and do nothing about it.

#72 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-07-02 04:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

It is abnormal to wear a band t-shirt who only had 50 printed up should they be feared?

The lengths you go to portray people carrying guns as no big deal are hilarious. Now you're comparing a person doing something erratic and unusual -- the open carry of a gun into a place like Target -- to someone wearing a band T-shirt? Absolutely nuts.

If I'm shopping and somebody comes in strapped with guns on their back, I'm getting out of there, especially if my kids are with me. It would be foolish to wait around to see whether they're open carry dorks or spree killers. I'm also calling the cops.

Stop posting digs about people being afraid of inanimate objects if they have concerns about guns. It's a lame form of trolling, just like people claiming that gun nuts are overcompensating for small wee wees.

#73 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 04:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is it an irrational fear that prompts most people that carry guns?

#70 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 04:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

You tell me. You raise the issue of carrying in Target for protection.

My theory is that they are immature and intentionally seeking negative attention in the way that adolescents will.

#74 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 04:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The open carry crowd has demonstrated that they are more then capable of safe conduct time and time again.

Hardly. In Texas they've gone after the people who called police on them, concerned about their activities, and posted threats against them online. They made some of their worst remarks against women.

But you know this, since it came up for discussion here. So it's interesting to see you pretend that didn't happen.

#75 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 04:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Now you're comparing a person doing something erratic and unusual -- the open carry of a gun into a place like Target -- to someone wearing a band T-shirt? Absolutely nuts."

No i am not and you know it. It was very clearly stated that should statistics be the only measure those would be considered even more abnormal. Why bother if you have to take something so far out of context to try to make a point?

#76 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

How do you change society?

#60 | Posted by salamandagator at 20

By being ------ apparently.

#77 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-02 05:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

My theory is that they are immature and intentionally seeking negative attention in the way that adolescents will."

Well your theory is unsupported and wrong.
But no one will force you to look at the actual stated motivations or apply reason. Think what you want but the trees still won't be pink.

#78 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well your theory is unsupported and wrong.

It's supported by the photos and coverage of every time they show up in a store or restaurant unannounced to revel in making people uncomfortable.

It's supported in their campaign of harassment against people who call police on them.

It's supported by the fact that even the NRA disagrees with their actions.

#79 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 05:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well your theory is unsupported and wrong.

#78 | Posted by salamandagator at

All we can say is that they look and behave like kids. They do not reassure people as to their mental state or predictability. Some us think that they have a positive social duty in that regard.

You, personally, may get to sink the 2nd Amendment. No need for the rest of us to put up with such fools simply because they are idiots to your taste.

#80 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-02 05:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

In Texas they've gone after the people who called police on them, concerned about their activities, and posted threats against them online. "

The funny thing is that the people who supposedly receives a few phone calls are gun control extremists who don't bother trying to have anyone arrested or anything. Take that as you will i have trouble thinking that it must have happens just because someone who devotes a lot of time misinforming people is above lying to promote their cause. You know kinda like randi rhodes.
While there are nuts on the gun side as well i am not aware of any charges pressed or any conviction from any of this.

But that aside how many have been injured by them?
Any?
So it is irresponsible but has been going on for years and years and nothing has happens but the fear of something that has not happened and is not a thing is rational?

#81 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It's supported by the photos and coverage of every time they show up in a store or restaurant unannounced to revel in making people uncomfortable."

Funny you would mention that. Because that was a small segment that was ousted from the main Texas open carry group who has always had a policy of sending an unarmed person in to ask the management first beforehand.

#82 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Irresponsibility is not something that is defined by others"

I've explained to you why they are irresponsible and you just repsond with strawmen about phobias. In reality, intentionally bringing a gun to a place where it will cause alarm is irresponsible because any type of misunderstanding has the real potentional to escalate to deadly force very quickly.

"The open carry crowd has demonstrated that they are more then capable of safe conduct time and time again."

What they are doing isn't safe conduct for reasons already stated numerous times. If they keep it up, eventually there will be a misunderstanding with a shop owner or a cop or someone who has a cc permit.

#84 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 05:12 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"They do not reassure people as to their mental state or predictability."

Again that is not their fault. If there was a history of it increasing risk to anyone then there might be something there but it has not. So all you are left with is historically the risk is zero but some are still afraid of it. It's kinda like being afraid of being bludgeoned to death by a nerf ball, sure it has never happened but it could possible so we should all be afraid of it.

#85 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If there was a history of it increasing risk to anyone then there might be something there but it has not."

There is. When you see someone carrying a weapon in a place where there is no legitimate reason for them to have one, they are just as likely to be spree killers as they are a grown baby trying to make a 'point'.

You seem to want to ignore all the times that someone is carrying a gun where you wouldn't expect to see one and then that person starts killing people.

That isn't a rational expecation on your part. In reality, beyond any doubt if you see someone carrying a gun in a place where you know there is no legitimate reason for anyone to have one you should assume there is a much greater possiblity of you being shot than there otherwise would be.

#86 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 05:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I've explained to you why they are irresponsible "

No you have said that some may be afraid therefore it is irresponsible. What someone thinks about something does not make it irresponsible. Any alarm caused is irrational, it is a fear of something that has not happened and probably never will. If you cannot understand that a fear of something that so far has had a probability of zero after decades is irrational then there is no such thing as irrational to you and your argument is void.

"What they are doing isn't safe conduct for reasons already stated numerous times."

It's hard to say something is not safe when it has a perfect safety record.

"If they keep it up, eventually there will be a misunderstanding with a shop owner or a cop or someone who has a cc permit. "
Hey, it could happen. But it has not. Eventually a cop may mistake a broom handle or e-cig for a gun and shoot someone too but is that a rational fear and those things should never be in public? Not on your life.

#87 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The open carry crowd has demonstrated that they are more then capable of safe conduct time and time again."

What they are doing isn't safe conduct for reasons already stated numerous times. If they keep it up, eventually there will be a misunderstanding with a shop owner or a cop or someone who has a cc permit.

#84 | Posted by Sully

It is only a matter of Time. A tragedy just waiting to happen. Fortunately anti gun nuts are not as crazy as the open carry gun nuts or someone would have already thought of it.

#88 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-07-02 05:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

"No you have said that some may be afraid therefore it is irresponsible"

Intentionally creating a situation where you cause alarm to people is irresponsible.

You don't understand responsibility.

I'm not against private gun ownership but I don't think someone like you should allowed to own one because you are so lacking in judgement.

#89 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 05:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

they are just as likely to be spree killers as they are a grown baby trying to make a 'point'."

Oh, come now you know better then that.
Of the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of times people have openly you think it is an equal chance of it being a spree killer?

You are only proving my point by resorting to emotional reaction and ridiculous hyperbole.

#90 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It is only a matter of Time. "

And if it happens it will be sad but still a whole lot rarer then just about anything else in the world.

#91 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Any alarm caused is irrational, it is a fear of something that has not happened"

Why do you keep lying? Public shootings are regular event in this country. What people fear when they see these people is a public shooting incident.

You seem to want to pretend that people are "irrational" if they lack the psychic ablity to differentiate between a spree killer and someone is just very stupid.

#92 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You don't understand responsibility."

You seem to be having difficulty understanding reason.

You keep using the term responsibility but think you are the one who gets to choose what it means.
You think because you do not understand the reason there cannot be one except what you want to believe.'
You think that if you do not agree with the reasons it must be irresponsible.

Sometime i like to just get in my car and drive. not going anywhere or doing anything. Is that irresponsible? There is an infinity higher chance that someone will get hurt then if someone carries a rifle around in demonstration. That is a fact you cannot argue.

Look at it objectively, take guns out of the picture. If there has never been an instance or the rarity of occurrence is extreme could you consider the fear of that rational?

#93 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Of the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of times people have openly you think it is an equal chance of it being a spree killer?

Depending on the setting, yes. If I'm in a store like Target where there is no good reason for a gun to be there then of course I'm going to consider the odds that he's up to no good very high.

There have been thousands and thousands of public shootings in this country. Not just spree kilers. Robberies. Personal disputes. All kinds of reasons. I don't know why ou pretend otherwise. I guess your position is dependent on willful ignorance.

#94 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 05:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Sometime i like to just get in my car and drive. not going anywhere or doing anything. Is that irresponsible?"

Are you driving on a road or somewhere where driving a car is out of place like through a shopping mall?

If you like to go play with your guns sometimes then go to a range and that wouldn't be irresponsible.

"Look at it objectively, take guns out of the picture. If there has never been an instance or the rarity of occurrence is extreme could you consider the fear of that rational?"

There have been instances of public shootings. Thousands of them. I don't know why you insist on lying about something like this. This isn't a person who would read this who wouldn't know that you are lying.

#95 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 05:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

You are only proving my point by resorting to emotional reaction and ridiculous hyperbole.

Says the guy who just made a ridiculous comparison between guns and nerf balls.

It's funny you think we're all stupid or paranoid for suspecting a person who shows up at Target with a gun might be erratic and dangerous.

You carry a concealed gun at your hip 24/7. The odds you'll need it are exceptionally low, too. But if we were to suggest you were paranoid for doing that, you'd bombard us with reasons why you think it's necessary.

#96 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 05:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You keep using the term responsibility but think you are the one who gets to choose what it means."

Nonsense. You seem to think that there is no level of responsibility that comes with handling a firearm. You shouldn't be allowed within 100 meters of a gun.

#97 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 05:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

What people fear when they see these people is a public shooting incident. "

So move the goalposts.

But the fact remains that there has not been an instance involving a demonstrator. But you want to include criminals and insane people in the picture. Well again you have something about 350 times a year rifles are used in crime. So you are at about one in a million shot of being involved in a crime with a rifle(in reality much much less taken the circumstance of virtual all crime involving rifles) and that is a rational fear?

You claim that you do not know their intent but you don;t know the intent of of the drivers going down the road but you do not assume the worst and that they will snap and kill you. Because if you felt that way no one would have an issue with saying that you are insane for thinking that way.

#98 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

" I'm going to consider the odds that he's up to no good very high."

You should never be allowed in vegas for your own sake.

#99 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Are you driving on a road or somewhere where driving a car is out of place like through a shopping mall?"

Out of place is a construct of your mind.

#100 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

And if it happens it will be sad but still a whole lot rarer then just about anything else in the world.

This reminds me of you calling it a "practically impossible scenario" that the loaded gun found in the toy aisle at a Myrtle Beach, S.C., Target store was left there by accident.

You were convinced it had to be a false flag operation by "gun control nuts."

Guess what? The suspect is a man previously charged with armed robbery.

www.myhorrynews.com

#101 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 05:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So move the goalposts."

No, I finally got it through your thick head that when people see these "protestors" they have no way of knowing what they are up to. I've been talking about this the whole time.

"But the fact remains that there has not been an instance involving a demonstrator"

If you just see a guy in a Target shopping with a gun, the last thing a normal person is going to think is "demonstrator".

Again, you seem to think that everyone needs to a mind reader and that is a more rational expectation than wanting maturity and basic consideration of others from gun owners.

#102 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-02 05:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Says the guy who just made a ridiculous comparison between guns and nerf balls."

Fight fire with fire. they make ludicrous claims and i will give them ludicrous scenarios that are the same to point out the unreasonableness of their statements.

". But if we were to suggest you were paranoid for doing that, you'd bombard us with reasons why you think it's necessary."

No i very rarely carry. Most of the reason i got my permit is because it is a hassle to deal with all the laws regarding transportation or concealment. But the point is that if you would consider someone who carries 24/7 paranoid because there are only 200,000 or so times a year guns are used to stop crimes then that threshold set should be applied universally. If carrying would be irrational at that point then obviously something that has not happened would bet infinity less rational.
but there is a point at which the chances of something happening are so low that it is irrational to fear it. Yes, to some point that is left to the individual but if it is zero then no one in their right mid would consider it rational.

#103 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

You claim that you do not know their intent but you don;t know the intent of of the drivers going down the road but you do not assume the worst and that they will snap and kill you.

A person driving down the road is a normal everyday occurrence. A bunch of strap ons coming in to Target is not.

You say what they are doing is perfectly normal, but I bet if you saw a guy looking like Jerad Miller openly carrying into a store you were at, you'd cowboy up and move to a covered position in case he was looking to shoot the place up.

You wouldn't just assume he was trustworthy and saunter up to tell him howdy, because that would completely defeat the purpose of you walking around armed all the time.

#104 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 05:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

You were convinced it had to be a false flag operation by "gun control nuts."
Guess what? The suspect is a man previously charged with armed robbery."

I believe i said it was far more likely then a concealed carry guy accidentally leaving it. And it turns out it was not an irresponsible gun owner it was a criminal.

#105 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

No i very rarely carry.

That's new to me. I will stop claiming otherwise. Sorry for the error.

#106 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 05:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

And it turns out it was not an irresponsible gun owner it was a criminal.

He's an irresponsible gun owner *and* a criminal. You don't get to claim gun owners are all responsible by pushing the irresponsible ones into some other category.

As I said originally, the most likely explanation for why the gun was left in the store wasn't an elaborate conspiracy theory. A lot of people are stupid and careless. A lot of people have guns. It's simple math that some of those stupid, careless people will have guns.

The reason I don't like one million Floridians having CCW permits is because I read every day about stupid things people do here. It should be much harder to get and keep that license, and it should require one Saturday a month of training. Otherwise, it puts too many stupid people with guns on the streets.

#107 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 05:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

A person driving down the road is a normal everyday occurrence. A bunch of strap ons coming in to Target is not."

Funny, considering your first comment:
"It's a lame form of trolling, just like people claiming that gun nuts are overcompensating for small wee wees."

It's fine i'm just saying.

but I bet if you saw a guy looking like Jerad Miller openly carrying into a store you were at, you'd cowboy up and move to a covered position in case he was looking to shoot the place up."

No, i don;t judge people on how they look. But that just me, no judgment on you. But i spend a lot of time in rural areas and have seen a lot of open carry people. I live in WA so there is not a restriction on open carry pistols so it is less common to see a rifle but it happens. It does not bother me, i do not live in fear that this is the one in millions that is going to snap. The probability is far to low to live in fear.

#108 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's fine i'm just saying.

True. But we need a shorter name for them. Referring to them as open carry advocates or people openly carrying weapons into stores takes too long. We need a shorter term.

No, i don;t judge people on how they look.

The point wasn't how he looked as much as what he was doing -- walking in to a Wal-Mart openly carrying guns, an act that most people would regard as unusual and likely dangerous.

If you trust every person who open carries into a store, you're defeating the purpose of having a concealed gun at your hip.

The probability is far to low to live in fear.

A sentiment often expressed to people who think they need to carry a gun at their hip all the time.

#109 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 05:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

The reason I don't like one million Floridians having CCW permits is because I read every day about stupid things people do here."

Part of that is because it is taken out of context. It is always important to remember that we are talking very large numbers. But when something happens it is often taken as far more common then it is. In this country we have something like 350 million. So i find it much more clear when you filter everything through a per capita filter. When this is done accidents and ccw crimes and such are put in perspective. There is no argument with someone who looses a loved one, to them it is always to large a number. Well, to anyone it should be to large a number but that said it is to be expected in such a large populace that accidents will happen. No less tragic but not indicative of a systematic issue.

#110 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Chris Rowzee · United States Air Force Academy
I will now shop at Target again.
Reply · Like · 349 · Follow Post · 7 hours ago

Jack Coppens III · Line Haul at Old Dominion Freight Lines
a person in the military supporting the constitution not
Reply · Like · 210 · 7 hours ago

Chris Rowzee · United States Air Force Academy
Jack are you trying to say I DON'T support the constitution?
Reply · Like · 1 · 7 hours ago

Jonathan Rinaudo · Top Commenter
You sir are a disgrace to the oath which you have taken.
Reply · Like · 26 · 7 hours ago

#111 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-07-02 06:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you trust every person who open carries into a store, you're defeating the purpose of having a concealed gun at your hip."

That is not true. Most people assume that people will act rationally and would only change that when they see irrational actions.

"A sentiment often expressed to people who think they need to carry a gun at their hip all the time."

Like i said if you subscribe to that then there can be no justification for fearing one of the demonstrators as they are infinity less likely to do something then you are of having to use a gun in defense.

#112 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 06:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

The demonstrators don't need to be doing what they're doing. It scares customers, bothers store owners and results in calls to police.

Most Americans don't want it to become normal to see people carrying guns around as they shop at Target. Even the NRA has spoken out against these clowns.

You do the cause of gun rights no favors by refusing to acknowledge that their actions are counterproductive.

#113 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 06:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

But i spend a lot of time in rural areas and have seen a lot of open carry people.

#108 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 05:52 PMFlag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

As has been stated multiple times, context is everything.

If I see any AR-15s at my local Sonic, I'm calling the cops. That's just common sense, something you spend an awful lot of time trying to negate.

#114 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-02 06:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It is only a matter of Time. "

And if it happens it will be sad but still a whole lot rarer then just about anything else in the world.

#91 | Posted by salamandagator

Perhaps not so rare as you think.

Gun Toters Square Off on Day 1 of Georgia's New Law

#115 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-07-02 06:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

The demonstrators don't need to be doing what they're doing. It scares customers, bothers store owners and results in calls to police.
Most Americans don't want it to become normal to see people carrying guns around as they shop at Target. Even the NRA has spoken out against these clowns.
You do the cause of gun rights no favors by refusing to acknowledge that their actions are counterproductive.

#113 | POSTED BY RCADE

In a word, yes.

#116 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-07-02 06:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

" It scares customers, bothers store owners and results in calls to police."

It seems to me that if something is legal and a fear of it is irrational as it is statistically then they should not take that as the fault of the demonstrators. Again, while drawing not comparison to anything but tactics, look at the other instances where things were considered offensive or scary. the demonstration did move to a point where what was feared and unknown became acceptable.
This is another instance where it is the fear of the unknown. Take sully for example(sorry buddy) he was not even aware of what the open carry people were fighting for. That is an issue because ti is never a big point when any of it is reported. Instead you have the fear angle played up. But where is the actual information? If it existed then the fear,rational or not, would be lessened.

#117 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 06:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

If I see any AR-15s at my local Sonic, I'm calling the cops.'

Common sense to report a non-crime? That's just wasting their time to have to explain the law to you.
But they do it all the time, someone calls to complain cops have to show up. More often then not they are cool, sometimes even supporting the cause. But it is still a waste of their time.

#118 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 06:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

It seems to me that if something is legal and a fear of it is irrational as it is statistically then they should not take that as the fault of the demonstrators.

The demonstrators created the situation, so it's their fault.

They could demonstrate in other settings, but that wouldn't get them the negative attention they're seeking. They get a kick out of scaring people and harassing the ones who call police.

They're punks. Because they're punks with guns, you defend them. That's stupid.

#119 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 06:29 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Common sense to report a non-crime?

People don't know it's a non-crime when these clowns show up somewhere. It's not like they can be identified on sight as demonstrators instead of lunatics looking to shoot people.

I'd call the cops too.

#120 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 06:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Again, while drawing not comparison to anything"

What was your first language? I'm guessing not English.

#121 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-07-02 06:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

this just in:

"target bans open carry"

this to follow: pro-gun protestors to ban targets...

from an interview on one of the protestors:

"i's used tah shoot at some tah-gets in th' field behind mah trailer, but now, seein' that target is bannin' us pro-gun patriots fer expressing our lawful rite tuh open carry, i's gonna start bannin' targets. from now on, i's shootin' my gun willy-nilly, into th' sky fer no gosh durn reason!"
"

#122 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-07-02 06:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

#115

I missed the part where it was where it was anyone with a rifle demonstrating. I also missed the part where the "cowboys" lost it and had a shootout. What i read was some guy was uninformed but calmed heads prevailed.
I also missed the part where it had anything to do with the new law.

#123 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 06:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

#121

Channeling yoda i was.

#124 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 06:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The demonstrators created the situation, so it's their fault."

So a big dude with a shaved head and spikes on his leather jacket shows up and someone is afraid that is his fault?

How can you hold someone responsible for someone else fearing irrationally?

#125 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 06:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

"They could demonstrate in other settings, but that wouldn't get them the negative attention they're seeking."

The purpose of demonstrating by carrying where they would normally go would be negated by removing common venue. It would be kinda like saying to any demonstrators that they can do it just go away from everybody and do it where no one knows.

#126 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 06:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"People don't know it's a non-crime when these clowns show up somewhere. "

So you see a guy walking out of an apartment holding a TV, do you call the cops? After all you have no way of knowing that he is not stealing it.

You can assume the worst of people that is your prerogative, but it really should not be the norm or it really mean our society is just done.

#127 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 06:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

They're punks. Because they're punks with guns, you defend them. That's stupid."

I defend them because they did nothing wrong. I never said i agree with their tactics, my opinion differs but that does not mean they were in the wrong.

Would you defend the people who got together to try and bully the store to pacify their phobia?

Look target did nothing wrong here, neither did the carry guys or even the control freaks. But by far the biggest jerks are the control freaks here.

#128 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 06:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

I defend them because they did nothing wrong.

Their whole campaign is wrong. You shouldn't be staging demonstrations inside a private business or restaurant, especially when it has been proven repeatedly that you are scaring the customers at those businesses.

#129 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 06:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rogers,

I think he was inarticulate.

What he should have said was: "they didn't do anything illegal."

#130 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-07-02 06:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Their whole campaign is wrong."

Wrong is subjective.
Was it illegal, obviously not.
Was it immoral? I don;t think so, not with my morality.
Was it irresponsible? Not using historical performance probability as a measure.
Was there a better way? Maybe.
So i do not see it as wrong because wrong is an opinion.

#131 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 06:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

People don't know it's a non-crime when these clowns show up somewhere.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

It's not like they can be identified on sight as demonstrators instead of lunatics looking to shoot people.
I'd call the cops too.

You can't tell the difference by the method of carry? One strapped across the back with the muzzle often pointed down and the other in an offensive-ready to fire-manner with the muzzle pointed forward.

That said, see 31.

#132 | Posted by et_al at 2014-07-02 07:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wrong is subjective.

So when you say "they did nothing wrong" it's OK, but when I call it wrong you suddenly have a problem with the use of the word.

#133 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 07:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Common sense to report a non-crime?

#118 | Posted by salamandagator at

You're perverse in your thinking.

If the local family restaurant is not an issue for you in regards to this sort of thing, then I'd like to know how close to your local elementary school a rifle carrying individual would have to be before you'd get off your 2nd Amendment ass and raise an alarm?

#134 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-02 07:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

But it is still a waste of their time.

#118 | Posted by salamandagator

Keep the peace is never a "waste of time".

It is what they are paid for.

I also missed the part where it had anything to do with the new law.

#123 | Posted by salamandagator

Apparently you missed a lot. It had everything to do with the new law.

#135 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-07-02 07:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

"This is a complicated issue, but it boils down to a simple belief: Bringing firearms to Target creates an environment that is at odds with the family-friendly shopping and work experience we strive to create."

...but there's no 30.06 sign at Targets around here... so you can concealed carry inside.

#136 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-07-02 07:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Target - A "family friendly" shopping experience where incompetent management can't prevent ID thieves from stealing your most personal data at will. Since the store can't seem to protect customer's data maybe the customers believe they need to carry and protect their own. I don't shop at Target or Wal-Mart

#137 | Posted by Robson at 2014-07-02 09:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it."

If you think that towns, cities, states changed laws to forbid open carrying of guns wasn't to fix a huge problem in those places then you haven't read very much of our history. Now, we have gun nuts who want to bring back open carry, just like the old west, and somehow we're supposed to not expect the same problems that resulted back in the days when it was the norm. America is becomimg a really stupid country.

#138 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-02 09:22 PM | Reply | Flag:


I don't shop at Target or Wal-Mart

#137 | Posted by Robson

Even though they are not Jews?

#139 | Posted by Jay at 2014-07-02 09:26 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

135

Keeping the peace? Well I guess so if it means they have to explain the law to people and educate them as to their rights then maybe there is a positive. But it seems like there are better uses for there time then to have to deal with someone's personal mental illness.

Nothing to do with the new law. It was a convenience store. Open carry was already allowed with a permit. The law just expanded where it applied to but it was never illegal in a mini mart.

#140 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 09:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

134. It did not use to be a problem in schools. I've known plenty of people who used to bring rifles to school because either there was a school shooting club or they were going out hunting after. Ban them and more are used on kids. Sad how that works. But the emotional response due to lack or reasonable response is noted.

#141 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 09:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Danni, at that point even criminals were allowed to have guns. That aside it was not the western movie scene you think it was. In fact the most violent town usually had the most restrictive gun laws, they did not help. In most of the country without restrictive gun laws crime was not any worse then the rest of the world. The funny thing is that homicide rates have fallen constantly. Even back before cartridges and muskets were the only guns the rate was much higher. Just interesting considering the control freak push to limit capacity or the fear of semi autos now.

#142 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 10:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

134. It did not use to be a problem in schools (shooting kids).

#141 | Posted by salamandagator at

Yes, but its a problem NOW, isn't it?

You wouldn't raise the alarm if you saw someone on a school campus with firearms.

You're a freak, my lad. You try covering that reality with an awful lot of words. Unsuccessfully.

#143 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-02 10:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

I've known plenty of people who used to bring rifles to school ...

... and they did their 'rithmetic on shovels using rocks as chalk.

It's 2014, granpappy. We don't live in the world of your childhood.

#144 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 10:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

But the emotional response due to lack or reasonable response is noted.

#141 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 09:52 PMFlag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

You don't have any emotions, apparently. I guess that explains that drive towards a false veneer of rationality.

A human being, as opposed to what you seem to be, calls the cops when he sees someone entering a public school with firearms.

Among sane people, this is inarguable. Among anyone who have raised kids, this is inarguable.

Childless and crazy is a sad way to go through life. No wonder you cleave to your guns so.

#145 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-02 10:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

144,

Hey I'm probably a couple decades younger then you. But the point still stands. More guns less school shootings. Hey look I can pull emotional crappie too. If you want more gun bans you want more dead kids.

#146 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 10:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

145

Just pretending to be sane is not the same as being sane. The intentional avoidance of fact and reality, substituting only emotion, precludes you from sanity. Seriously, if you cannot support your opinion with anything but a call to emotional reaction and think that makes for reason, you and sanity are mutually exclusive.

#147 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 10:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Zed
Oh no look landmine

Rational person
Nope those are manhole covers

Zed
Uhh, Won't someone please think of the children!!!

#148 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 10:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

"In fact the most violent town usually had the most restrictive gun laws, they did not help."

"Did the Wild West Have More Gun Control Than We Do Today?"

www.huffingtonpost.com

The difference being, in the old days people owned guns because they had to fend of animals, etc. while today people (guys) need guns to prove their masculinity. Insecure males are and have always been the biggest threats to civilization.

#149 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-02 10:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Won't someone please think of the children!!!

#148 | Posted by salamandagator at

Well, its a sure thing you're not.

You've persuaded me. I've never done it before, but tomorrow I cut a check to teh most effective gun control organization I can find.

Good work, Mr. 2nd Amendment.

#150 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-02 10:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just pretending to be sane is not the same as being sane.

You prove that every time you participate in a discussion related to guns.

#151 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-02 10:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Seriously, if you cannot support your opinion with anything but a call to emotional reaction

#147 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 10:41 PMFlag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

You're the man who won't call the cops on the armed man entering the elementary school.

Of course your attitude touches some buttons. You insist upon painting yourself as a freak, and an armed one at that.

You're sowing the wind. The whirlwind will catch up to you in its own time.

#152 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-02 10:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The funny thing is that homicide rates have fallen constantly."

Yes, probably true during the decades that open carry wasn't the norm. Open carry, in the old west, resulted in many face offs and many deaths, if we continue it, it will again. Only problem is, we know better today, to do this intentionally is just stupid.

#153 | Posted by danni at 2014-07-02 10:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you want more gun bans you want more dead kids.

#146 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-02 10:37 PMFlag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

I merely suggested that you call the cops when they're needed.

You are one hateful little sophist.

#154 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-02 10:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

134 how close to your local elementary school a rifle carrying individual would have to be
143 on a school campus
145 entering a public school with firearms

Which goalpost do you want to deal with? The dynamics of each situation require different levels of alertness and response.

You apparently progressed the danger to justify your ability to hurl insults without reference to your original scenario which without more is facially innocuous. Intellectual dishonesty. Zed.

#155 | Posted by et_al at 2014-07-02 11:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Their whole campaign is wrong. You shouldn't be staging demonstrations inside a private business or restaurant, especially when it has been proven repeatedly that you are scaring the customers at those businesses.

I know it's not a perfect fit, but this statement could have been leveled at OWS...

Yet I don't think the poster would have even thought it then.

#158 | Posted by jpw at 2014-07-03 01:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

You're a freak, my lad.

No, I think you just wear your tighty whiteys a size or two too small.

It's called context zed. For people in control of their emotions, a person simply holding a gun is not a four alarm freak out moment.

#159 | Posted by jpw at 2014-07-03 01:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

if we continue it, it will again.

Yawn.

This trite, hollow, shadow of a thought has been bludgeoned to death every time CCW laws were expanded.

I've yet to step over blood running in the street. And I've lived in two of the larger crime ridden cities in the country for the past decade.

#160 | Posted by jpw at 2014-07-03 01:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

It's called context zed.

#159 | Posted by jpw at 2014-

That's right. Context. Something you gun-freaks have a tin ear for.

#161 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-03 06:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

Their whole campaign is wrong. You shouldn't be staging demonstrations inside a private business or restaurant, especially when it has been proven repeatedly that you are scaring the customers at those businesses.

I know it's not a perfect fit,

#158 | Posted by jpw at 2014

You think? When did that epiphany strike?

#162 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-03 06:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

I know it's not a perfect fit, but this statement could have been leveled at OWS...

#158 | Posted by jpw at 2014

I didn't realize that OWS was armed.

#163 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-03 06:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

Yep, hurl insults.

#157 | Posted by et_al at

You're not a lawyer?

#164 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-03 06:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

It's called context zed.

#159 | Posted by jpw at 2014

Context, right. So the context is you observe an armed man near to or entering a public school. Do you call the police or allow him to quietly enjoy his 2nd Amendment rights?

You guys appear to loathe emotion. I'll just point out that its not an emotional question. Its a question about something that actually happens, and with some frequency.

So, answer the question. SAL wouldn't.

#165 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-03 07:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Just pretending to be sane is not the same as being sane."

This should be the new tag on the front page.
"Red Meat For Yellow Dogs" has been gone for years, but this seems a worthy successor.

#166 | Posted by TheTom at 2014-07-03 07:31 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Context, right. So the context is you observe an armed man near to or entering a public school. Do you call the police or allow him to quietly enjoy his 2nd Amendment rights?

#165 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2014-07-03 07:00 AM | FLAG:

Within 300 feet of a school, you don't have second amendment rights in Texas. If somebody is intentionally violating a gun free zone, they're probably up to no good. You should call the cops. It's not rocket surgery.

Zed, how about I take you to a range and we get you some experience with firearms? I'll pay for everything, supply the weapons and safety equipment, all you have to do is get to Houston for a couple hours.

#167 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-07-03 07:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

This is nothing but losers who have no life desperate to get attention. Who wants to take their kids shopping for toys where plain clothes rednecks are walking around with AR's? It's insane. These people are jerks .

#168 | Posted by ron81 at 2014-07-03 08:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

I know it's not a perfect fit, but this statement could have been leveled at OWS...

I'm not aware of any Occupy Wall Street protests that were held inside private businesses, nor any in which protesters were armed with weapons.

#169 | Posted by rcade at 2014-07-03 09:19 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

'I'll just point out that its not an emotional question."

That obviously BS. You want to pretend it's not emotional but whine about how some uneducated people might feel. Are we just playing now or can you actually be serious?

#171 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-03 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Se it is the little bits of metal and plastic that make you loose your mind.

#170 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-03 11:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why do you consistently advertise that you don't even know what a weapon is?

#172 | Posted by sully at 2014-07-03 11:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why do you consistently advertise that you don't even know what a weapon is?

POSTED BY SULLY AT 2014-07-03 11:45 AM |

A weapon can be defined by what it is OR how it is used. If I take my chair (not a weapon) and proceed to pummel you with it, it is a weapon.

#173 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-03 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

", nor any in which protesters were armed with weapons."

Funny the weapons did not matter the OWS crowd still had high amounts of crime including murder and rape. But even then there were many weapons found and confiscated from the protesters, you should know that. So defend those idiots but but attack the peaceful guys because some people might be irrationally scared.

Oh and yes they took over private property, that was the first thing the did in Zuccotti Park. They invaded restaurants and threatened owners. They invaded banks, they caused untold amounts of damage to many many private business. Ass a whole they were very destructive, but they are cool with you?
The guys who follow the law, and are upstanding citizens while demonstrating are the problem?
More importantly you have an infinitely higher chance of being raped, assaulted or murdered by the OWS crowd then you do by these open carry guys.
So

#174 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-03 11:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

A weapon can be defined by what it is OR how it is used. If I take my chair (not a weapon) and proceed to pummel you with it, it is a weapon.

#173 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-03 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

If we're referring to a "weapon" without referring to a specific incident where something that wasn't designed to be a weapon was used as one, then its commonly understood that a "weapon" is something that is designed to inflict damage.

You're not going to find anything about bits of plastic and metal if you look it up in Webster's, that's for certain.

#176 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-03 12:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're not going to find anything about bits of plastic and metal if you look it up in Webster's, that's for certain."

Nor will you find magical mythical sentient objects just waiting to kill kill kill.
But in reality under the definition of Webster it is not a weapon until it is used .
1
: something (as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy
2
: a means of contending against another

Funny how that works.

#177 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-07-03 12:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I have yet to see one that has a little container of magic in it that makes them have sentience or controls people as you would have us all believe."

Idiotic strawman. Typical of you. You can be as thick headed as you want but the fact remains that most of what I've posted in this thread is about the behavior of people. In fact, I've not made one comment about a weapon that isn't in the possession of a person showing bad judgement. I don't know why you get off on being such a clown.

"Yes they are little bits of plastic and metal, sometimes with some wood thrown in for good measure."

There are more than bits of plastic and metail despite your comically foolish obfuscations.

#178 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-03 12:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Nor will you find magical mythical sentient objects just waiting to kill kill kill."

You're the only one talking about that and everyone can see it. You're making a complete fool of yourself by continuing with this blatantly dishonest and foolish charade. Nobody has said the things you are ascribing to them.

I'm taking it that you've resorting to making crap up because on some level you understand that you're wrong.

#179 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-03 12:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is a complete no-brainer. Why do they have to kowtow to the gun nuts by calling the issue complex and complicated. What are they afraid of? Getting shot?

#183 | Posted by spectator at 2014-07-03 01:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Damn, I got it wrong.
wiki.answers.com
#42 | Posted by Sniper"

Do you ever tire of having to say that?

#185 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-07-03 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Needed two new pillows today, drove right by TARGET and over to Walmart who took my money and didn't give a damn if I was packing.

#186 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-07-03 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Good for you. You want a medal?

#187 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-07-03 02:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

By the way, you are a sad sack if you have to buy your pillows at WalMart. I wouldn't make my dog sleep on those Chinese-made cheap POS's.

#188 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-07-03 02:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Needed two new pillows today, drove right by TARGET and over to Walmart who took my money and didn't give a damn if I was packing.

#186 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-07-03 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

You bit through two pillows in one day?

#189 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-03 02:02 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#189

That was actually a slow day for him. He usually gets them bulk at Sam's Club.

#190 | Posted by Corky at 2014-07-03 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#189 | POSTED BY SULLY

No, trying to cure allergies.

#191 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-07-03 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

No, trying to cure allergies.

#191 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-07-03 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh. In that case, have you tried buckwheat husk pillows?

#192 | Posted by Sully at 2014-07-03 02:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

#192 | POSTED BY SULLY

No, never heard of them until you mentioned them. I bought the special pillow covers and mattress covers. Darn expensive but I hope it works.

#193 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-07-03 03:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

People with allergies are weak. They should not be permitted to procreate.

#194 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-07-03 04:41 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Even though they are not Jews?

#139 | Posted by Jay at 2014-07-02 09:26 PM | Reply

Huh? How do I know what the Target executives are except for their obvious customer incompetence? I don't keep count, nor do I keep tabs on representation except when it is obvious that minorities oddly do rule over us. A democracy is about majority rule with restrictions and not over-representation of the ethnically over-wealthed.

Keeping tabs on others has become a job for various minority groups who seem to be obsessed that only they are over-represented, when a democracy means rule by equality and majority.

#195 | Posted by Robson at 2014-07-03 05:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

So if one were to enter a Target store licensed by law enforcement and carrying does it mean that the individual can not buy made in China products?

If it does then there is no reason shop at Target because most of the merchandise they pawn off on the USA public is manufactured by unregulated, unprotected Chinese labor operating under American sounding names. We need to bring back charges for treason instead of making excuses.

I make a point to shop at smaller stores with American customer service to save time, and they might even throw in a made in USA tidbit product instead of flooding us with the Hammer and Sickle of China.

#196 | Posted by Robson at 2014-07-03 05:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Zed, how about I take you to a range and we get you some experience with firearms? I'll pay for everything, supply the weapons and safety equipment, all you have to do is get to Houston for a couple hours.

#167 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-07-03 07

I've fired guns. Competed for a turkey with a shotgun. Lost. Even had a pistole around the house for awhile.

I appreciate the offer to see beautiful Houston once again. But you're barking up the wrong tree. No one around here fears guns, per se. That's your convenient mythology, and not a very inspiring one.

#197 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-03 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Re #198 are you drinking? Not being critical or judgmental but just asking your state of mind. Drinking does affect one's comments and posting.

Or is your last post directed to someone besides myself? Hopefully that is so, otherwise your reply " Jewsjew sjew je ws jewsje wes jewsje w sje wsj ewsjews jewsjews jewsje wsj ewsj ew sj ewsjewsj ewsj ewsj ewsj ews jews-jewsjewsjew, sjew s jewsjewsj ewsj ew sjewsjew sje wsjewsje" makes ZERO sense.

#199 | Posted by Robson at 2014-07-03 07:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

I appreciate the offer to see beautiful Houston once again. But you're barking up the wrong tree. No one around here fears guns, per se. That's your convenient mythology, and not a very inspiring one.

#197 | POSTED BY ZED AT 2014-07-03 06:06 PM | FLAG:

I don't think you're scared. I read your posts and see somebody motivated for safety but often lacking factual information about firearms... operation, capability, how the current firearm marketplace works and what's actually available. Not trying to patronize you. I'm just offering the opportunity to experience a reasonable selection of firearms that spans.. 130 years or so, and take a trip to the George R Brown to see the "gunshow loophole" in person. The bulk of collection is a view through my & my wife's family history. We can go into NFA stuff (machine guns, suppressors) but I'll have to call a friend and set that up.

#200 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-07-03 07:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

#200 | Posted by sitzkrieg at

I appreciate the positive feedback and the chance at seeing someone from here as a fully-fleshed human being. What you propose seems like fun. Given the circumstances of my current existence, it may be awhile before I can take advantage. Rain check?

#201 | Posted by Zed at 2014-07-03 08:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

.... The Big Criminals Vilify Ordinary Americans!

**** Oddly the Greatest & Vilest Criminals in America are NOW the Gun Owners...and not the US Govt "War Mongers" or their evil cronies the "Banksters"...who are together the same ones who have actively and persistently Raped & Pillaged the USA and many foreign countries under the Bush & Obama Administrations! How many innocent people around the world did the NRA or private American gun owners MURDER...or Bankrupt...compared to the Bush and Obama Regimes?

p.s. What about "Liability Insurance" for the President and the US Govt and their cohorts the CorpoRats/ Banksters...requiring them all to take out INSURANCE to REIMBURSE the American Public for Sweetheart "Bailouts" or for the Money and Lives LOST in any "Illegal Wars" or any other "Traitorous,Unconstitutional & Illegal" activities! Of course considering the rabid,rampant and widespread Criminal Operational Sphere of both the US Politicians and their CorpoRat Cronies,they could not afford Insurance that would ever hope to cover such staggering and steadily growing liabilities! The truth is that these Poisonous-Toxic Groups have proven themselves too Dangerous and Disasterous to the Physical and Financial HEALTH of America to ever be trusted with any kind of authority!

#202 | Posted by AntiCadillac at 2014-07-03 08:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Any time. Just let me know and I'll set it up.

#203 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-07-03 08:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

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