Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, June 29, 2014

Robert Reich: A number of billionaires are flooding our democracy with their money, drowning out the voices of the rest of us. But Charles and David Koch are in a class by themselves. They're using their fortune -- they're the fifth and sixth richest people in the world -- to create their own political machine designed to protect and advance their financial interests. The Koch machine includes ... Political front groups pouring hundreds of millions of dollars into elections at every level of our democracy, while disguising the sources of the money ... [and a] campaign to suppress the votes of minorities. In the last presidential election, funding white "poll-watchers" where minorities vote, leading to complaints of voter intimidation.

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Poll Results

I think the Koch brothers are

The Scum of the Earth, 16 votes (76.19%)
American Partiots, 4 votes (19.05%)
Who the heck are the Koch Brothers?, 1 votes (4.76%)

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

We denounce the Koch Brothers
We, citizens of the United States, denounce you, Charles and David Koch, for using your vast wealth -- more than the combined wealth of the bottom 40 percent of Americans -- to corrupt our democracy. You are thereby undermining the most precious gift we possess, our democratic system of government. You deserve to be shamed and condemned by all Americans.

They've established a political front group, Americans for Prosperity, and are building their own permanent political machine, including hundreds of full-time staff in at least 32 states. They are pouring money into federal and state races -- including more than $30 million already to help Republicans win the Senate this year.

petitions.moveon.org

#1 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-28 08:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Secretive Soros-backed group looking to spend nearly $40M in 2014
A secretive dark money group backed by George Soros and other liberal mega-donors is looking to steer nearly $40 million to left-wing groups in 2014 to support high-profile political and policy efforts, according to documents obtained by the Washington Free Beacon.

The Democracy Alliance connects major Democratic donors with some of the largest and most influential liberal activist groups in the country. Previous beneficiaries, such as the Center for American Progress and Media Matters for America, are set to get millions more in 2014.

In all, the document reveals, the Democracy Alliance hopes to provide $39.3 million to 20 organizations this year. If it meets those fundraising targets, it will likely be responsible for one out of every five dollars in those groups' 2014 budgets.

Alliance-supported organizations will spend more than $175 million in 2014, according to budget projections contained in the document.

www.foxnews.com

I'm sure Robert Reich is fine with this.

#2 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-28 08:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

You know he is.

#3 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-29 12:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

You know nothing, Pcon Snow.

billmoyers.com

#4 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-29 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Since it is unlikely that they will dare to click on your link Corky, I thought it might be nice to just provide them one single paragraph from it.

"In total, the Koch political empire marshaled $400 million in the 2012 election cycle toward groups and efforts that spent money directly in the electoral arena. Not every group that received money from the empire reported spending on elections, but the vast majority of that money went to groups that spent tens of millions on electoral ads -- which must be reported to the Federal Election Commission -- and even more on issue ads that targeted candidates but didn't advocate their electoral victory or defeat -- which is not reported. Koch players included Americans for Prosperity, the American Future Fund and the 60 Plus Association."

And they should realize that is just the Koch brothers, not Sheldon Adelson or a host of other billionaires buying tax breaks and other advantages for themselves through our completely corrupt political process.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-29 12:48 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 5

You know nothing, Pcon Snow.

billmoyers.com

#4 | Posted by Corky

What a lib crock if smelly stuff.

#6 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-29 02:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm sure Robert Reich is fine with this.

#2 | Posted by paneocon

Who gives a crap what Reich says?

I'd be willing to advocate for an end to ALL of this secretive dark money if everyone else is willing to advocate for the same. But it's an all or nothing thing. It's all got to stop at once.

#7 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-06-29 05:49 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

PA,

You seriously need to get over this 'but they do it ttooooooooooooo' whiney approach to debating.

#8 | Posted by jpw at 2014-06-29 07:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Almost all of the major news organizations are Left leaning. Hundreds of millions of dollars of free publicity. Of course the Democrats want direct contribution limits.

#9 | Posted by jdmeth at 2014-06-29 09:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

A UN proposal to negotiate a legally-binding treaty to prevent human rights abuses by transnational corporations (TNCs) and the world's business conglomerates passed by majority vote. But following the vote, the United States and the EU, have warned they would not cooperate with an intergovernmental working group (IGWG) which is to be established to lay down ground rules for negotiating the proposed treaty.

More proof we do not live in a country which Represents the interests of human beings. Most of our elected officials only care about money into and out of large Corporations. The fate of people is of no consequence. Equally important, they don't want you to know that, so they hire people with skills like Obama.

#10 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-06-29 09:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

#8 | POSTED BY JPW AT 2014-06-29 07:50 PM | FLAG:

Seconded.

#11 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-30 02:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

The truth is not what the narrative would like you to believe. The Koch brothers give political donations to people and causes they like. How much, a bunch. How much compared to others? They run in the high 20s with a bunch of foundations and people who make them look like pikers. When speaking of the Koch brothers no one says a word about George Soros who spends at least twice as much as these two. Or the Tides Foundation which spend about four time what they do some years. The twenty or thirty so contributors never get painted as evil manipulators, but they have an agenda too.

#12 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-06-30 02:51 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Of course the Democrats want direct contribution limits.

#9 | Posted by jdmeth

Except for unions.

#13 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-30 09:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

Almost all of the major news organizations are Left leaning. Hundreds of millions of dollars of free publicity. Of course the Democrats want direct contribution limits.

#9 | Posted by jdmeth

Horse crap.

What major news organizations are advocating for single payer health care? For banning guns? For nationalizing fossil fuels? For stopping fracking? For banning GMOs and toxic food? For building the environmental costs of every product into the cost? Even MSNBC doesn't do these things.

Fox news is proud to advocate all extreme right positions, who is doing that on the left?

#14 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Of course the Democrats want direct contribution limits"

This is pure politics. Democratic PACs crush all others. Act Blue alone has raised over half a billion dollars in the last decade, and they're one of many who support democrat causes exclusively. If you're a democrat, you don't give that up. You can't give that up. But you'll do your best to make sure the other party has to.

The biggest problem with Reich's message is it is coming from Reich. If it weren't the message (it is), it would most certainly be the messenger. I don't care how much money you spend, centrally planned collektivism and redistributive policies don't have much appeal to the masses. It's important the remember that some of the most vehemen anti-communists were democrats; Charlie Wilson, Pat McCarren, etc. Progressives legitimizing people like Reich does more for Republcians that the Koch brothers could ever hope to do on their own.

#15 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-06-30 11:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

Reich's net worth is $4M. Another 1%er lashing out against himself.

#16 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-06-30 11:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

The Koch brothers are only evil in their political contributions because liberals disagree with them. If the Koch brothers were liberal, doing the same thing, not a peep would be heard from them.

#17 | Posted by sames1 at 2014-06-30 12:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

#4 | POSTED BY CORKY

Bill Moyers says so? Man that's thin even for you.

#18 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 12:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

See #5.

#19 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 12:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

#7 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT

The acknowledgement that campaign fundraising is an issue on both sides of the political isle is at least a start. There is hope for you. Considering the cost of getting elected these days I don't see an answer but I'm willing to listen but the solution has to involve unions and not just financial arrangements.

#20 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell Defends…the Koch Brothers

www.tpnn.com

#21 | Posted by sames1 at 2014-06-30 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

#19 | POSTED BY CORKY

Using Danni to back up Bill Moyers can only mean you need to step away from the bong!

billionaires buying tax breaks and other advantages for themselves through our completely corrupt political process.

It's good that only republicans are guilty of this. snark

#22 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 12:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Considering the cost of getting elected these days I don't see an answer but I'm willing to listen

One step is to return to local elections and state elections and not have every single race viewed as a national one. Someone in New York should have no voice in a Florida election, period!

#23 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 12:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

He gives them credit for their charitable werk. Nothing to do with politics.

#24 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 12:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

oops wrong thread

#25 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 12:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Fox news is proud to advocate all extreme right positions, who is doing that on the left?
#14 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Have you been in a coma for the last decade?

Halperin: If we had a Republican President, IRS scandal would be "national obsession"
hotair.com

#26 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

No wait, right thread.

#22 |

Both shine light on your darkness.

-snark

The only ones promoting a change in CU, no out of state money, and public financing of national campaigns are Dems.

#27 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

#23 | POSTED BY KANREI

I can see your point but congressional and presidential elections effect all the folks so that local House of Reps election has national impact.

#28 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 12:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Pane,

Presidential elections are not local races and every state has a voice in Congress, so they should elect the best voice for THEIR state and let my state vote OUR best voice.

Koch and Soros and the like are killing us and CU is among the worst ruling in Supreme Court history IMHO.

#29 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 12:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

The only ones promoting a change in CU, no out of state money, and public financing of national campaigns are Dems.
#27 | POSTED BY CORKY

Maybe you have heard of the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform Bill?

#30 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 12:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

I heard of it. Did you hear what happened to it?

Justice Kennedy's majority opinion[55] found that the BCRA §203 prohibition of all independent expenditures by corporations and unions violated the First Amendment's protection of free speech. The majority wrote, "If the First Amendment has any force, it prohibits Congress from fining or jailing citizens, or associations of citizens, for simply engaging in political speech."

en.wikipedia.org

#31 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 12:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

The acknowledgement that campaign fundraising is an issue on both sides of the political isle is at least a start. There is hope for you.

#20 | Posted by paneocon

I've always acknowledged that it's a problem. So maybe there's hope for you.. But I doubt it.

#32 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-06-30 12:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

#30

McCain the RINO?

lmao

#33 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 12:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

In the context of election to public office, the distinction between corporate and human speakers is significant. Although they make enormous contributions to our society, corporations are not actually members of it. They cannot vote or run for office. Because they may be managed and controlled by nonresidents, their interests may conflict in fundamental respects with the interests of eligible voters. The financial resources, legal structure, and instrumental orientation of corporations raise legitimate concerns about their role in the electoral process. Our lawmakers have a compelling constitutional basis, if not also a democratic duty, to take measures designed to guard against the potentially deleterious effects of corporate spending in local and national races.

Justice Stevens

#34 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 12:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

#31 | POSTED BY KANREI
The issue as I see it is that McCain-Feingold attempted to control soft money but soft money is hard to clearly define and impossible to regulate and Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission agreed.

#35 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 12:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Pane,

Read post #34 and look up the entire ruling.

Although they make enormous contributions to our society, corporations are not actually members of it. They cannot vote or run for office. Because they may be managed and controlled by nonresidents, their interests may conflict in fundamental respects with the interests of eligible voters. .... Our lawmakers have a compelling constitutional basis, if not also a democratic duty, to take measures designed to guard against the potentially deleterious effects of corporate spending in local and national races.

#36 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

In Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, the federal government argued that there were virtually no limits to the state's power to suppress political speech. McCain-Feingold was poorly written and thus nothing less than censorship.

#37 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 12:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

And how, Pane, do you keep our elections free from foreign influence when we allow International corporations to pile tons of money into our races?

Quote Justice Stephens (Stevens?): Because they may be managed and controlled by nonresidents, their interests may conflict in fundamental respects with the interests of eligible voters. .... Our lawmakers have a compelling constitutional basis, if not also a democratic duty, to take measures designed to guard against the potentially deleterious effects of corporate spending in local and national races.

#38 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 12:59 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

what about the george soros machine that's responsible for inflicting obama on us?

#39 | Posted by outbacker at 2014-06-30 01:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

#38 | POSTED BY KANREI

I real don't have a answer to that. There is always a way to beat the system, mysterious Chinese bundlers or off shore pack money, it's going to get in one way or another. Caps are the only concept I can think of?

#40 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

I real don't have a answer to that.

I do: don't let corporations pile money into our system.

George Soros and the ---- brothers basically get two voices in our system to our one. They get one with their selves and one with the corporate entity. Hardly fair.

#41 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 01:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

There is always a way to beat the system, mysterious Chinese bundlers or off shore pack money, it's going to get in one way or another. Caps are the only concept I can think of?

#40 | Posted by paneocon

Unless you have public election funding. Then the whole issue is fixed.

#42 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 01:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

hotair.com

#26 | Posted by paneocon

What an appropriate link for you.

#43 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

billionaires buying tax breaks and other advantages for themselves through our completely corrupt political process.

It's good that only republicans are guilty of this. snark

#22 | Posted by paneocon

Can you really not tell the difference between the Koch's buying legislation to increase their own wealth, and Soros buying legislation to help disadvantaged people?

Those pathetic greedwhores aren't happy with their hundreds of billions. They need to subvert democracy to get MORE for themselves. That's mental illness.

Soros donates to the ACLU, human rights causes, and efforts to increase the vote.

You really think those are the same thing?

#44 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 01:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Unless you have public election funding. Then the whole issue is fixed.
#42 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Obama to Break Promise, Opt Out of Public Financing for General Election
abcnews.go.com

We are way past that these days.

#45 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 01:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

What an appropriate link for you.
#43 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

So then Halperin never said: If we had a Republican President, IRS scandal would be "national obsession"?

#46 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 01:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Can you really not tell the difference between the Koch's buying legislation to increase their own wealth, and Soros buying legislation to help disadvantaged people?
#44 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Please tell me you're not that nieve?

#47 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Can you really not tell the difference between the Koch's buying legislation to increase their own wealth, and Soros buying legislation to help disadvantaged people?

IMHO, the reason is not the main point, but the action is. Those not in my state should have no voice in my state's elections, period.

#48 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Please tell me you're not that nieve?

#47 | POSTED BY PANEOCON AT 2014-06-30 01:18 PM

Some people are about how to spell "naive."

Signed with Love,
The Spelling Nazi

#49 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

#49 | POSTED BY KANREI

Busted, my bad. :-)

#50 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 01:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

CU is among the worst ruling in Supreme Court history IMHO.

#29 | POSTED BY KANREI

Take it up with the founders.

CU was a constitutionally sound ruling as it pertains to the 1st Amendment.

#51 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-30 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

IMHO, the reason is not the main point, but the action is. Those not in my state should have no voice in my state's elections, period.

#48 | Posted by kanrei

If you haven't seen the most recent feel good commercials from Koch Industries, they say they are in almost every state.

#52 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-06-30 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

CU was a constitutionally sound ruling as it pertains to the 1st Amendment.

#51 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2014-06-30 01:44 PM

I disagree as stated in post 41.

Take it up with the founders.

Show me where the founders said the rich get two voices to my one.

#53 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 01:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Take it up with the founders.

CU was a constitutionally sound ruling as it pertains to the 1st Amendment.

#51 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-30 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

NO Sir Corporations aren't people and money isn't speech. It is property that is exchanged for something of value.

#54 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-06-30 01:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

The 1st Amendment doesn't say:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, except when people are speaking as a group like a union or corporation, a g, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The part in italics is what I added in. Absent what I added, CU was constitutionally sound.

Also, just about all speech requires money. It costs money to print fliers to be passed out on the street.

#55 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-30 02:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

The part in italics is what I added in. Absent what I added, CU was constitutionally sound.

You keep saying that, but provide nothing to back up your opinion.

#56 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 02:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

If we are going to allow China to spend unlimited amounts of money on US elections, why even ban foreign born from serving as President? Why limit elections to citizens only? Why even pretend our votes are going to count? Just let Sony declare the next President and all members of Congress.

#57 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

How about we invite the Middle East to spend their billions in oil money on who will be the next President that has to deal with them?

#58 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 02:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Also, just about all speech requires money. It costs money to print fliers to be passed out on the street.

Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-30 02:00 PM | Reply

fliers are not speech. They are instruments in which a person uses to covey a certain issue at hand. They are pieces of property that is paid for by another source of property(money) Let us not forget the first 9 Amendments pertain to the individual. The 10 pertains to the States IE the collective people.

#59 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-06-30 02:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

convey^

#60 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-06-30 02:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Please tell me you're not that nieve?

#47 | Posted by paneocon

You mean naive? No I'm not. That's the truth. The Kochs only donate to things to increase their own wealth and power. They also donate to cancer research, but only because david koch HAD cancer, so even that is self-serving.

Soros donates to human rights causes that do nothing to increase his own wealth.

Your attempts at false equivalency have failed again.

#61 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 02:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Soros donates to human rights causes that do nothing to increase his own wealth.
#61 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

This is just one example of your "Naivety"

George Soros Chooses Refining For Profits

At the same time, new legislation issued by the Environmental Protection Agency, concerning sulfur content on gasoline, will impact hard the company's finances. With this in mind, it is not a surprise that Renaissance Technologies began dropping the stock during 2013. While George Soros (Trades, Portfolio) seems as an attempt at making an important profit covered by a great risk when looking for a long-term gain.

www.gurufocus.com

#62 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 02:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

You keep saying that, but provide nothing to back up your opinion.

#56 | POSTED BY KANREI

www.lwvmn.org

#63 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-30 02:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

How about we invite the Middle East to spend their billions in oil money on who will be the next President that has to deal with them?
#58 | POSTED BY KANREI

How do you control the massive naked short selling that brought down Lehman Brother, that came from the middle east?

Yet the trading pattern that emerges from 2008 SEC data shows naked shorts contributed to the fall of both Lehman Brothers and Bear Stearns Cos
www.bloomberg.com

Hmm seems like McCain was ahead in the polls right about then?

#64 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

JeffJ,

You didn't read that, did you as it fully supports everything I have said here. For example: Foreign Corporations Could Impact Elections: A majority of large businesses are now owned by foreign entities, and this means international corporations could pour tons of money into the United States political scene, potentially swaying the political climate.

#65 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 02:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

#64 | POSTED BY PANEOCON AT 2014-06-30 02:35 PM

There is no room for your oranges in this apple discussion.

#66 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 02:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

More from JeffJ's link:

Lobbyist Power: As a result of Thursday's ruling, corporations have been unleashed from the longstanding ban against their
spending directly on political campaigns and will be free to spend as much money as they want to elect and defeat candidates. If a
member of Congress tries to stand up to a wealthy special interest, its lobbyists can credibly threaten: We'll spend whatever it takes
to defeat you

#67 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 02:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

How do you control the massive naked short selling that brought down Lehman Brother, that came from the middle east

#64 | POSTED BY PANEOCON AT 2014-06-30 02:35 PM

Not supported by your link as the words "Middle" and "East" do not appear in the article.

#68 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-30 02:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.gurufocus.com

#62 | Posted by paneocon

Did i ever say soros doesn't involve himself in business?
NO.
I simply said the koch's never do anything not self-serving, whereas soros does. That's the difference between being a self made man like warren buffet, or spoiled rich entitled brats like the kochs.

#69 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

#68 | POSTED BY KANREI

I got that connection from the book Secret Weapon and other sources

www.amazon.com

#70 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

#69 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Really, that's what you meant by this? Crystal clear as mud.

Can you really not tell the difference between the Koch's buying legislation to increase their own wealth, and Soros buying legislation to help disadvantaged people?
#44 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

#71 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

#69 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Really, that's what you meant by this? Crystal clear as mud.

Can you really not tell the difference between the Koch's buying legislation to increase their own wealth, and Soros buying legislation to help disadvantaged people?
#44 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

#72 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Can you really not tell the difference between the Koch's buying legislation to increase their own wealth, and Soros buying legislation to help disadvantaged people?
#44 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

#71 | Posted by paneocon

Not sure where you're confused. The right always holds soros up as the example that the left has koch-like people too. But in order to be like the Kochs, Soros would have to be completely self-serving, which he isn't.

Unless you're about to list all the selfless charitable activities the kochs engage in to help the common man... because there aren't any.

#73 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 03:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Unless you're about to list all the selfless charitable activities the kochs engage in to help the common man... because there aren't any."

Wow are you clueless.

#74 | Posted by sames1 at 2014-06-30 03:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Unless you're about to list all the selfless charitable activities the kochs engage in to help the common man... because there aren't any."

www.kochind.com

www.kochfamilyfoundations.org

I'm not stumping for the Kochs.....just pointing out that you're wrong.

#75 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-30 03:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm not stumping for the Kochs.....just pointing out that you're wrong.

#75 | Posted by eberly

Except I'm not.

They give to cancer research because david koch HAD CANCER. That's not selfless.

Their education donations come with strings attached that the kochs get to influence teacher hires and curriculum. That's not selfless it's investing in propaganda.

#76 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 03:47 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Take it up with the founders.

CU was a constitutionally sound ruling as it pertains to the 1st Amendment.

#51 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-30 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.addictinginfo.org

#77 | Posted by LarryMohr at 2014-06-30 03:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

They give to cancer research because david koch HAD CANCER. That's not selfless.
#76 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Koch Brothers Donate to Charity as well as 'Right Wing Causes'

in the last decade, it's also worth noting the Kochs have given more than $600 million in pledged or donated money to arts, education, and medical research, including (but not limited to):

New York-Presbyterian Hospital Weill Cornell: $15 million
M.D. Anderson Cancer Center: $25 million
The Hospital for Special Surgery: $26 million
Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center: $30 million
Prostate Cancer Foundation: $41 million
Deerfield Academy: $68 million
Lincoln Center's NY State Theater: $100 million
Massachusetts Institute of Technology: $139 million

www.politicsdaily.com

That David Koch must be one sick guy. Give it up SPEAKSOFTLY you have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting

#78 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 03:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ditch the shovel, Speak.

#79 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-30 04:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

The amounts of money that Soros puts into politics is a trickle compared to the flood of dark money with which the Kochs buy laws and pols.

The equivalency claimed here is laughable.

#80 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 04:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

The amounts of money that Soros puts into politics is a trickle compared to the flood of dark money with which the Kochs buy laws and pols.
The equivalency claimed here is laughable.
#80 | POSTED BY CORKY

Dems receive FAR more money from big donors than does the GOP.

#81 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-30 04:12 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

VERDICT: When it comes to the combination of institutional lobbying, 527 group donations and PAC expenditures, Koch Industries far out-spends Soros' hedge fund and think tank, $57.4 million to $12.8 million. Most of this money is attributable to lobbying expenditures.

www.opensecrets.org

#82 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 04:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

#73 | Posted by SpeakSoftly
"Unless you're about to list all the selfless charitable activities the kochs engage in to help the common man... because there aren't any."

Say what you will politically about the Koch's, Speak, but your assertion about their charity is untrue. They do give a lot of money to hospitals and to theatre.

#83 | Posted by TheTom at 2014-06-30 04:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Open Secrets reported in January of 2012 that one of the biggest untold stories was the success Democrats were having with small donors, noting that the DCCC had a gain of 62% in small donors while the NRCC had a gain of just 18% in small donors. This wasn't just about their online money, either.

www.politicususa.com

"But what is really interesting is where the money is coming from. Bland writes that it's the small donations that are fueling this fundraising advantage, "On donations of less than $200, the Democratic committee raised $30 million to the NRCC's $11.6 million."

He continued, "Not only did the DCCC bring in far more small donations than the National Republican Congressional Committee each month in 2013, the Democrats' massive email list allowed them to take advantage of key political moments and turbocharge their fundraising."

#84 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 04:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

End the corporate person. Anything less is meaningless posturing.

You either believe in government by and for the people or you don't.

#85 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-30 04:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

"They give to cancer research because david koch HAD CANCER. That's not selfless."

So the Michael J. Fox Foundation (MJFF) for Parkinson's Research is not selfless because he has Parkinson's.

The Christopher & Dana Reeve Foundation is not selfless because he had a spinal cord injury.

You are a piece of work.

#86 | Posted by sames1 at 2014-06-30 04:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

That David Koch must be one sick guy. Give it up SPEAKSOFTLY you have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting

#78 | Posted by paneocon

Nope, just one self-intersted -----. Again, he gives to cancer causes because he had cancer. That's not selfless, it's self-interested. An effort to prolong his own life so that he can spend more years hoarding wealth and dismantling democracy.

Find me some Koch charity that gives to the POOR, the DISADVANTAGED - you know, people who weren't born into success like the kochs were.

#87 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 04:27 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

End the corporate person. Anything less is meaningless posturing.

#85 | Posted by Shawn

You could end private campaign funding. Then it wouldn't matter if corporations are people or not.

#88 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 04:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Seriously, Speak.

Ditch the shovel.

#89 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-30 04:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Seriously, Jeff.

Ditch the Koch/Soros comparison.

57 to 13 is not comparable.

#90 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 04:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Find me some Koch charity that gives to the POOR, the DISADVANTAGED - you know, people who weren't born into success like the kochs were."

Reading is fundamental. Look at the list provided by paneocon. Hello?

You must have Obama disease. Can't admit you are wrong, can't take responsibility, have to make up new rules as you go.

#91 | Posted by sames1 at 2014-06-30 04:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ditch the Koch/Soros comparison

That's not the comparison I am making.

It's the Koch/Soros, Buffet, Steyer, et al. comparison that I am making.

#92 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-30 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

#91

You are wasting your time.

His mind is made up and no amount of counter-factual information is going to change that.

#93 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-30 04:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

#76

you're incapable of having a rational conversation and that post proves it.

you hate them. period. fine by me...

but you are going so far as to pretend you know the level of selflessness of the hundreds of millions of dollars donated to charity from 2 guys you don't know at all.

whatever......continue to swim in your toilet of hatred.

I'm disgusted by the amount of money guys like this can and do pour into elections. I agree with most here on how these guys are trying to control way too much.

#94 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-30 04:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

#92

You are still wrong.

www.politifact.com

#95 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 04:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dems receive FAR more money from big donors than does the GOP.

#81 | Posted by JeffJ

I'm sure you can provide some link to that. But the fact is, so much spending goes on that's completely off the books that none of us really know who spends more.

Here, in a local election to the Board of an electric cooperative, Bill Koch (one of the lesser Koch brothers who are not of Koch Industries) spent an estimated $100k pushing a candidate in what would normally be a race where candidates typically don't spend more than $5k. It was over a grudge.
www.merchantherald.com

The Koch's are also buying their way into a myriad of other local elections all over the country.
www.washingtonpost.com

I doubt if these funds are showing up in the places where those like you want to claim Dems receive FAR more money from big donors than does the GOP.

#96 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-06-30 04:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

#87 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Koch also financed the construction of Deerfield Academy's $68 million Koch Center for mathematics, science and technology,[39] and was named the first and only Lifetime Trustee.[39]

Koch gave $10 million to the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory[40] where he was honored with the Double Helix Medal for Corporate Leadership for supporting research that, "improves the health of people everywhere".[41]

Keep digging speak, best bone up on your Mandarin.

#97 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 04:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.opensecrets.org

however...the 2012 election...

www.opensecrets.org

2 different stories.

But if certain pom pom waving fools want to count it up and pretend that keeping score really really really matters.....by my guest.

be a retard.

#98 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-30 04:59 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

be my guest.

#99 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-30 05:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Koch also financed the construction of Deerfield Academy's $68 million Koch Center for mathematics, science and technology,[39] and was named the first and only Lifetime Trustee.[39]"

yeah...but he went to school there 40 years ago. -Speak

"Koch gave $10 million to the Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory[40] where he was honored with the Double Helix Medal for Corporate Leadership for supporting research that, "improves the health of people everywhere".[41]"

yeah, but he had cancer -Speak

#100 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-30 05:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

#100

The Kochs could give 90% of their wealth to charity and Speak would still despise them.

#101 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-30 05:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Here, in a local election to the Board of an electric cooperative, Bill Koch (one of the lesser Koch brothers who are not of Koch Industries) spent an estimated $100k pushing a candidate in what would normally be a race where candidates typically don't spend more than $5k. It was over a grudge.
www.merchantherald.com"

Bill Koch is referred to as the idiot brother. no class. douchebag.

#102 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-30 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bill Koch is referred to as the idiot brother. no class. douchebag.

#102 | Posted by eberly

They all use the same methods.

#103 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-06-30 05:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Reading is fundamental. Look at the list provided by paneocon. Hello?

You must have Obama disease. Can't admit you are wrong, can't take responsibility, have to make up new rules as you go.

#91 | Posted by sames1

Sure is. And he posted a bunch of cancer charities (which are self-interest for david koch) and a theater.

So again - show me ANY interest the kochs have for helping the less fortunate. I'll wait.

#104 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Kochs could give 90% of their wealth to charity and Speak would still despise them.

#101 | Posted by JeffJ

Since they're trying to subvert democracy and undermine the middle class, you should despise them too.

But the kochs giving 90 percent of their wealth is laughable. These ------ have tens of billions yet they still need to buy off the government in order to get MORE MORE MORE. These are greedwhores you're defending. You should ask yourself why.

#105 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 05:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Since they're trying to subvert democracy and undermine the middle class, you should despise them too.
#105 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Koch companies have a presence in about 60 countries and employ more than 100,000 people worldwide, with about 60,000 of those in the U.S.

Looks like a lot of middle class jobs to me. Not like the jobs Obama is creating that require you to ask "do you want fry's with that".

Since Obama trying to subvert democracy and undermine the middle class, you should despise him too.

#106 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-30 06:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Koch companies have a presence in about 60 countries and employ more than 100,000 people worldwide, with about 60,000 of those in the U.S.

#106 | Posted by paneocon

So you're fine with international corporations exercising influence over the american government then?

#107 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-06-30 07:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So again - show me ANY interest the kochs have for helping the less fortunate. I'll wait."

What do you think the money directed towards MIT goes to doing? providing scholarships, perhaps? Covering research costs? Things like that?

What about the $50M the Koch brothers have given to the Smithsonian? of the $20M to the American natural History Museum?

But perhaps most importantly, what bout the hundreds of millions of Koch dollars that are collected and redistributed in the form of transfer payments? Is that not enough? And if they're bad for not doing more, where does that put you?

#108 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-06-30 09:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Since they're trying to subvert democracy and undermine the middle class, you should despise them too."

Subvert democracy? You mean like Act Blue?

And you'll have to explain how the Koch brothers are going after the middle class, except by promoting policies whereby the middle class is not maintained solely through redistribution.

Maybe the Kochs are --------, but when it comes to political leadership, I'll take people like them over people like Reich any day, ANY DAY of the week.

#109 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-06-30 09:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

What major news organizations are advocating for single payer health care? For banning guns? For nationalizing fossil fuels? For stopping fracking? For banning GMOs and toxic food? For building the environmental costs of every product into the cost? Even MSNBC doesn't do these things.
Fox news is proud to advocate all extreme right positions, who is doing that on the left?

#14 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2014-06-30 11:43 AM | FLAG:

Piers Morgan, Ed Schultz, Bill Maher, Jon Stewart... that's just off the top of my head. All of them have advocated for various issues you listed. I think the first 2 were fired eventually though, maybe they forgot their first job is to sell advertisements?

#110 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-07-01 10:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

"So you're fine with international corporations exercising influence over the american government then?"

again, they employ 60,000 folks in this country, they are based in this country. They are huge philanthropists (despite Speak's whining about how it's all self-serving) Should they have no influence? Large corporations have exercised influence over the American govt for 100+ years.

Are the Kochs going too far? yes, IMO. If they were donating money to their GOP candidate and if they supported senators and congressmen from Kansas and other places where they have a significant employee presence.....that would be okay. But they are contributing heavily all over the country (Scott Walker comes to mind).

#111 | Posted by eberly at 2014-07-01 10:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

The reason you know the left isn't serious about getting money out of politics is simple. Have the Koch's been bailed out by the government the way wall street has? I would consider wall street much more damaging to this country then two brothers. Those criminals bought Obama and now will buy Hillary all the while Bill eased up regulations then paid him millions to thank him. Then they screw the country and make billions then crash the economy and hold us all hostage for a bailout and not one goes to prison. I'm not saying the Koch's are self serving for their business which employees several thousand Americans but, don't pretend to care just b/c they have countered groups like SEIU. No one was upset on the left when groups like move on get a tax exempt status. It shows they just don't like their politics. I guarantee if the Koch's were liberal speak wouldn't mind their money.

#112 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-07-01 10:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

What major news organizations are advocating for single payer health care? For banning guns? For nationalizing fossil fuels? For stopping fracking? For banning GMOs and toxic food? For building the environmental costs of every product into the cost? Even MSNBC doesn't do these things.
Fox news is proud to advocate all extreme right positions, who is doing that on the left?

#14 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY AT 2014-06-30 11:43 AM | FLAG:

That's delusional. MSNBC's entire nightly line up is a info ad for democrats. The first half of the day on Sunday's is a televised think tank for the left.

#113 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-07-01 10:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

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