Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, June 29, 2014

Nancy Andreasen: As a psychiatrist and neuroscientist who studies creativity, I've had the pleasure of working with many gifted and high-profile subjects over the years, but Kurt Vonnegut -- dear, funny, eccentric, lovable, tormented Kurt Vonnegut -- will always be one of my favorites. Kurt was a faculty member at the Iowa Writers' Workshop in the 1960s, and participated in the first big study I did as a member of the university's psychiatry department. I was examining the anecdotal link between creativity and mental illness, and Kurt was an excellent case study. ... While mental illness clearly runs in the Vonnegut family, so, I found, does creativity. Kurt's father was a gifted architect, and his older brother Bernard was a talented physical chemist and inventor who possessed 28 patents. Mark is a writer, and both of Kurt's daughters are visual artists. Kurt's work, of course, needs no introduction.

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Corky

 

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In A Beautiful Mind, her biography of the mathematician John Nash, Sylvia Nasar describes a visit Nash received from a fellow mathematician while institutionalized at McLean Hospital. "How could you, a mathematician, a man devoted to reason and logical truth," the colleague asked, "believe that extraterrestrials are sending you messages? How could you believe that you are being recruited by aliens from outer space to save the world?" To which Nash replied: "Because the ideas I had about supernatural beings came to me the same way that my mathematical ideas did. So I took them seriously."

Some people see things others cannot, and they are right, and we call them creative geniuses. Some people see things others cannot, and they are wrong, and we call them mentally ill. And some people, like John Nash, are both.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

It's a thin line between genius and madness.

#1 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2014-06-29 03:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks for posting this, Corky. Every once in a while, a gem like this gets posted here. Very interesting article.

#2 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2014-06-29 03:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks, Lee. Nice editing by Rogers, too, to bring in the Nash comments.

#3 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-29 03:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

**** Re Vonnegut: To paraphrase Truman Capote's quote about Jack Keroac "That's not creativity that's just typing!"

#4 | Posted by AntiCadillac at 2014-06-29 07:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Vonnegut--another literary giant from Cornell. I just bought a copy of 'Slaughterhouse Five' at the Cornell Campus Store...

#5 | Posted by catdog at 2014-06-30 08:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

But what about people who are very creative and completely well adjusted and not eccentric?

#6 | Posted by kudzu at 2014-06-30 12:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

#6

I'm OK.

#7 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 12:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Secrets of the Creative Brain

Opening the doors to perception.

#8 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-30 06:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

As many hours per day that you spend on this pathologic website administered by a partisan freak automatically disqualifies you from being 'OK'. : )

#9 | Posted by Huguenot at 2014-06-30 06:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

There's a guy who preaches at the same corner of my town every day. He has long brown hair, and wears Jesus sandals and a dirty muumuu kind of thing. He claims to be Jesus reincarnate.

Here's the thing: What if he is? I mean, if you really were Jesus come again, wouldn't you tell everyone? And if you told everyone, don't you think they would consider you crazy?

Poor second coming Jesus.

#10 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-06-30 06:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

#9

If you really thought that, you wouldn't come here at all.

Unless you were totally irrational... OK, I take that first part back.

#11 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 07:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lol
I guess this whole website is crawling with genius' then. Or at least they will lead you to the messiah.

#12 | Posted by Huguenot at 2014-06-30 07:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hey corky,
I have an excuse.
White mans burden.

#13 | Posted by Huguenot at 2014-06-30 07:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Who told you you are white?

Are you sure they are real?

Don't listen to them. Voices in your head are nothing. If you hear voices with your ears and no one is there? Seek help.

Or if you believe Morici over Stein, again, seek help.

#14 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 07:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Voices in your head are nothing."

I wouldn't say that.

Most people don't realize they actually have two brains in their heads.

They misinterpret communications from one side to the other as a communication from outside.

The Religulous are famous for this.

The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind (

For bicameral humans, when habit did not suffice to handle novel stimuli and stress rose at the moment of decision, neural activity in the "dominant" (left) hemisphere was modulated by auditory verbal hallucinations originating in the so-called "silent" (right) hemisphere (particularly the right temporal cortex), which were heard as the voice of a chieftain or god and immediately obeyed.

Jaynes wrote, "[For bicameral humans], volition came as a voice that was in the nature of a neurological command, in which the command and the action were not separated, in which to hear was to obey."[2] Jaynes argued that the change from bicamerality to consciousness (linguistic meta-cognition) occurred over a period of ten centuries beginning around 1792 BC. The selection pressure for Jaynesian consciousness as a means for cognitive control is due, in part, to chaotic social disorganizations and the development of new methods of behavioral control such as writing."[3

#15 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-30 07:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

-The Religulous

Now you are just trolling.

Origin of consciousness theories are cool, though, including those about early alphabets.

My point was that schizophrenics don't just "hear voices in their heads", they have specific physical audio hallucinations.

I thought that poster could relate to that, lol.

#16 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 07:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Origin of consciousness theories are cool, though, including those about early alphabets.

Being able to think about thinking and believing in beliefs is what sets us apart from the beasts.

And, yes, it's true...I know how much you enjoy it when I go after the Religulous.

#17 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-30 07:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thinking the beasts are "unconscious" is overstepping, though.

Thinking about beliefs was a major part of humanity as philosophy and religion long before science, and came up with many of the same, or maybe even sometimes better, answers.

People believed and trusted in, had faith in, other people and things and ideas long before other people thought they needed a lab to prove them.

#18 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-30 07:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

People believed and trusted in, had faith in, other people and things and ideas long before other people thought they needed a lab to prove them.

#18 | POSTED BY CORKY

People believed many wrong things ...like everything revolved around us and that a solar eclipse was a God eating the sun and life formed spontaneously (spontaneous generation). Until Men of science discovered that the laws of the universe were discoverable. And that they are constant throughout the universe and unbreakable and that there were proveable explanations for everything.

#19 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-30 09:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

My point was that schizophrenics don't just "hear voices in their heads", they have specific physical audio hallucinations.

telling them to invade Iraq.

#20 | Posted by northguy3 at 2014-06-30 09:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Origin of consciousness theories are cool, though, including those about early alphabets."
Being able to think about thinking and believing in beliefs is what sets us apart from the beasts.
And, yes, it's true...I know how much you enjoy it when I go after the Religulous.
#17 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-30 07:30 PM

"We are all animals, my lady."

#21 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-07-01 02:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

-like everything revolved around us

More mythinformation.

en.wikipedia.org

#22 | Posted by Corky at 2014-07-01 12:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

-like everything revolved around us

More mythinformation.

en.wikipedia.org

#22 | Posted by Corky

Only for the Religulous trying to rewrite history.

Even Aristotle believed the sun moved around the earth. Later to believe otherwise was considered heresy by the Roman Catholic Church, and people were persecuted who believed the earth was not central.

It was called the Ptolemaic Theory. Widely held as the Biblical view.

Then came Copernicus. He had a different theory called the Copernican Theory but he died before he could prove it.

Then came Galileo who also tried to prove the Cosmos was heliocentric not geocentric.

But, he was then promptly persecuted for it by the Inquisition and who subsequently died blind while under house arrest for the rest of his life to prevent him from spreading his blasphemy to the rest of the world.

Did I miss anything?

Oh, wait I did.

Galileo says to say F you.

#23 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-07-01 01:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

#23

Ah, the intolerant and the Abusive must feel threatened to be so shrill.

- Widely held as the Biblical view.

Though not supported by those texts.

As the link I provided notes, "flat earth" is predominately a modern myth. Those old texts speak of the circle of the earth "hung upon nothing" and the passing of seasons in such a way as to support our modern understanding of cosmology in many different respects, including the heliocentric.

#24 | Posted by Corky at 2014-07-01 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Flat Earth....
Round Earth...

The Earth is coin shaped: round from one perspective and flat from the other. You are all right. Now let's get some wings.

#25 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-07-01 01:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ah, the intolerant and the Abusive must feel threatened to be so shrill.

It's a joke. Galileo left his middle finger for you.

www.spiffystudios.com

- Widely held as the Biblical view.

Though not supported by those texts.

Ummmm there are a awful LOT of widely held bible views not supported by the "texts".

#26 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-07-01 03:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

#26

"As with the Christian religion, the worst advertisement for Socialism is its adherents." - George Orwell

#27 | Posted by Corky at 2014-07-01 03:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

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