Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, June 25, 2014

John David LaDue readily admits he came from a good home and says he was never bullied. But something in him drove the 17-year-old Minnesotan toward an obsessively detailed plot -- one in which, he said, he wanted to kill his family, set off bombs at a school and then shoot students. "I think I'm really mentally ill," he told police. "And no one has noticed. I've been trying to hide it."

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LaDue said his main target was Waseca Junior/Senior High School. But first, he said, he was going to kill his father, mother and sister. "They did nothing wrong; I just wanted as many victims as possible," he told officers who questioned him.

A witness thwarted his plan when she saw the 17-year-old tending to a storage locker, where he kept his stash of bomb-making materials. She dialed 911. Officers arrived to find LaDue in the locker surrounded by an assortment of gunpowder, pyrotechnic chemicals, ball bearings and a pressure cooker, police said.

LaDue asked his interviewers to let him see a psychiatrist.

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Catch-22.

You can't be held responsible if you're mentally ill.

But if you say you are, you've proven you're sane.

QED.

#1 | Posted by 88120rob at 2014-06-25 01:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Crazy or not if he was that close to going on a rampage be it an asylum or a prison he can never be let out of a locked facility again.

#2 | Posted by Tor at 2014-06-25 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

My long time belief on this subject:

A warped and twisted 'desire', by itself, is not 'evil', it is 'illness'.
ACTING on the desire makes it evil.

That this kid was probably willing to act puts him right on the threshold of evil, but as he never acted, I approve treating it as 'illness'.

Same goes for all other twisted desires. I'll take seriously statement of 'illness' so long as they are in reference to evil desires never acted on.

Once acted on, it becomes 'evil' and should be treated as such (which does not rule out also treating it as 'illness', but it would be treated as 'evil' FIRST....).

Free Will.

#3 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-06-25 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

USAF242, your take on evil and mental illness is just your own personal made-up configuration that you probably created to help you make simplified sense of a complex topic. Mental illness that effectively negates free will as you think of it, is a very real and scary reality for hundreds of thousands of people. But since it so alien to the way your brain and my brain works, many people just don't want to believe it is real. Sad really. It is more comforting and less alien to believe that a person "chooses" to be evil.

#4 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-06-25 02:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

Mod there are certainly people who's mental illness precludes them from having any sort of free will. However many, possibly most, mentally ill people have moments of clarity. They evil ones will simply use moments of clarity to hide the true depths of their illness, they are the scary ones. Others will use those moments of clarity to seek help. Sadly they often do not get the help they need.

I have worked with many mentally ill people and the moments of clarity are almost the worst. Working with a crazy person who suddenly looks in your eyes and says "help me" is heart breaking.

#5 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-06-25 03:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

'a crazy person who suddenly looks in your eyes and says "help me" is heart breaking.'

I've worked with people like that to.

It's horrible how helpless we are in the face of some forms of mental illness.

#6 | Posted by Tor at 2014-06-25 03:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sounds like nothing but a defense strategy.

#7 | Posted by Pirate at 2014-06-25 03:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Free Will.

#3 | Posted by USAF242

Nice try attempting to condense a very complex issue into two words.

Mental illness is a behavioral disorder of the brain.

How can you have Free Will if the organ that is responsible for that Free Will is defective? How will you know when it is "you" or your disease speaking?

Even your "moments of clarity" would be suspect.


#8 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-25 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think I'm mentally ill

It's the guns fault, son..

- Liberals

#9 | Posted by boaz at 2014-06-25 04:55 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

On mental illness and free will.

I absolutely accept that there are people out there that are so disconnected that they really and truly have no concept of their actions.

And I have 100 times as much certainty evil thugs, who are indeed mentally twisted, but who DO understand that they are evil, abuse the hell out of 'insanity'.

For ever one truly 'insane to the point of no free will' individual, there are at least a hundred 'violently twisted but still aware' thugs.

Free will issues can come into conflict with other issues. When this happens, it is of course always preferable to get the 'best' balance. (Note: I did not say 'correct balance', because there probably is no 'correct balance', just 'least bad' options). But having said that, I am of the firm, absolute opinion that we error FAR TO FAR away from free will. Not saying free will has to be absolute, but we sure as hell need to move HEAVILIY towards it, and no just for insanity issues.

#10 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-06-25 06:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

And I have 100 times as much certainty evil thugs, who are indeed mentally twisted, but who DO understand that they are evil, abuse the hell out of 'insanity'.

I know what you are trying to say but I think it is much more complex than that.

For ever one truly 'insane to the point of no free will' individual, there are at least a hundred 'violently twisted but still aware' thugs.

You can be perfectly aware of what you are doing and still not be doing it with a Free Will.

again.... mental illness is a behavioral disorder of the brain. Addiction to drugs being one of the more obvious behavioral disorders.

The brain is a complex organ. One of the most complex things in the known universe. The result of billions of years of evolution.

That brain responds to stimuli either internal or external.

If they are mentally "twisted" or mentally ill their brains are "malfunctioning". Responding inappropriately. They need help. Not jail actually. They are kind of trapped in a set of deterministic factors. Like a computer program stuck in a loop they cannot escape. It is a mere social convention to assign all the blame to the individual . This reflects a primitive understanding of the causes of human behavior.

But, what is malfunctioning...what is "normal"? How do we reprogram them to be "normal". And should we?? Can we? (yes we are soon getting to the point that we will be able to do just that) And what does that mean to their sense of identity. If we wipe their memories clean and reprogram them what are the ethical ramifications of being able to do that? And will that give them "free will"?

see...Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind

Maybe they are not malfunctioning at all. Maybe they just evolved and arrived at the wrong time and in the wrong place. What appears to be evil in one situation or time is perfectively normal behavior in another. Because they are out of sync with society we call them evil and twisted.

An "evil thug" may under different circumstances in a different time be the perfect hunter or the perfect knight or the perfect soldier.

I think there are far far fewer humans who have as much Free Will as you think they do. Free Will has been debated for ages and we are not going to solve it here. In my limited experience I will tell you that it seems to me that there are a lot of people out there (even the intelligent ones)who don't really know why they do what they do.

Ask any kid why he did that terrible thing he is being punished for. He will most likely say, "I don't know." Because they don't or they don't want to know.

Nor do they always have the ability (or the training or whatever) to inhibit or override their own behavior and when they do it that is also the product of their own particular physiology, which is a consequence of their own unique developmental experiences, which occurred within a particular cultural environment, which was a reaction to a particular set of genes, which was the result of his parents interacting in another particular environment and another particular set of genes, who inherited their genetic traits from their parents, and so on and so forth...

And yet we blame the individual for reacting inappropriately to a particular set of stimuli because of his particular set of deterministic factors that he actually probably had very little control over.

#11 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-25 08:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes he is. And the illness is called sociopathy.

Never helped any serial killers get outta trouble.

#12 | Posted by klifferd at 2014-06-26 02:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Close all mentally health facilities and release the patients onto the streets. Stop all welfare and disability payments. Close all public schools because our country needs a couple more billionaires. Pay fraudsters trillions with taxpayer money and claim you saved the economy. Then let things just trickle down". Conservatives

#13 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-06-26 08:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

Straw men are so easy to defeat.
That is why the lazy like nutcase use them so often.

#14 | Posted by Marty at 2014-06-26 02:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes he is. And the illness is called sociopathy.

-----

You mean politicians, wall st, banksters, lobbyists, ect.

#15 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-26 06:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

.... Think You're SICK...Just Compare Your Sanity to that of the US Govt and it's Killers!

**** John David LaDue should read "The History of the CIA" and when he sees how many thousands of Innocent People they "sanely" Tortured & Murdered...Mr.LaDue should then feel a great deal better about his mental health!

#16 | Posted by AntiCadillac at 2014-06-26 08:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Mental illness that effectively negates free will as you think of it, is a very real and scary reality for hundreds of thousands of people."

Your statement could carry more weight if he had approached someone for help, instead of being caught. [...]

#17 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-06-26 08:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

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