Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, June 25, 2014

Andrew Sullivan: If you're looking for a majestically sweeping indictment of everything president Obama has achieved in foreign policy over the last six years, go read Walter Russell Mead's screed. "Rarely has any American administration experienced so much ignominious failure, or had its ignorance and miscalculation so brutally exposed." If the results of specific Obama policies have been so disastrous, then surely he must be able to point to several mistakes, offer an alternative in hindsight, or, heaven forfend, provide a constructive proposal today. But you will, alas, find no such thing in the screed. And that's really the deepest flaw in the case against the president. There is an assumption -- even now! -- that the world is controlled by the U.S. and that everything in it is a result of American hegemony.

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tonyroma

 

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Our role, if we are not to become insane, is not to manage the unmanageable; it is to understand that some historical processes have to take place and that some of them will not necessarily be in our interests.

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I think what's missing from Mead's harrumph is any sense that the world is, in the end, not about us; that the Arab and Muslim worlds are in a historic convulsion that has been fed by countless tributaries from the past and will forge many unexpected paths in the future; that the generational shifts, the impact of new technology and media, the decay of traditional Islam, the rise of an Internet Islamism, the legacies of the sectarian war in Iraq and the Assad despotism in Syria, and the rise of a new Shiite awareness … all these represent forces we have no way of arresting, let alone controlling, let alone micro-managing, as Mead suggests.

Our long-term goal is the emergence of a peaceful, democratic Middle East that does not export terror and medieval fanaticism across the globe. And we've seen the first spasms of that process: the ousting of tyrants, the failures of revolutions (with one notable success in Tunisia, one place where we haven't intervened), and the ructions of a youth movement in Iran. But we have barely seen the next phase – and it will surprise us, I'm sure. The great religious wars in Europe burned (literally for some) for a couple of centuries. And it was only the bitter, collective experience of those endless, brutal, bloody wars that persuaded the majority that they weren't worth fighting any more. At some point we have to ask: why are we spending lives and treasure and attention to prevent that outcome from coming sooner rather than later?


It seems ironic but the very criticisms leveled against W and the neocons for opening Pandora's box in the ME are now being hurled against Obama because of his inability to put Humpty Dumpty back together again in the manner these same neocons failed so miserably to do themselves after breaking him.

The next time someone wants to criticise Obama over the current foreign policy perhaps they should stop and articulate exactly what they would do given the circumstances that Obama inherited, so we can debate and speculate how that alternative is so much more likely to lead to success than the road we're currently trying to navigate. Criticism without alternative is just blameshifting and only serves to provide cover for the lack of ideas those foisting such arguments have for practically alleviating the problems themselves.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-06-25 09:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

Both Sullivan and Mead are right at some point.

Obama HAS been a miserable failure at foreign policy, whether we are discussing the Middle East or not. He has alienated allies left and right and selectively chosen to intervene in a few conflicts while ignoring others. In doing so he has emboldened a few regional players who believe they can act with impunity, fearing no reprisal from the US.

Sullivan is right that about critics not offering alternatives, but those that have have been discounted and marginalized. Those who recommend a non-interventionist approach are accused of being isolationists. Those who recommend interventionist are called neo-cons and war hawks. The only apparently accepted US role is that of a parent who believes in hollow threats, bribes and timeouts - but chooses different punishments at random. We bribe some petulant children with aid, weapons or trade agreements. We threaten some and then do nothing when they continue. We drone strike here and there (the 'swat').

I'll make a recommendation: let the Middle East burn. They've been fighting over that miserable region for thousands of years and we don't need to expend resources in support of either side. If they ever do find a way to come together in a theocratic Caliphate, they're still on a different continent. Let them tangle with Russia and India for the next 100 years.

#2 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-06-25 10:15 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"We bribe some petulant children with aid, weapons or trade agreements. We threaten some and then do nothing when they continue. We drone strike here and there (the 'swat')."

Which U.S. President in the last fifty years didn't operate that way?
Obama gained the Presidency with two unnecessary, expensive, and actually destructive wars were already ongoing and now you want to blame him for the damage that foreign policy has done to America's ability to lead. Some things, like bugging Angela Merkel's phone could rightly be blamed on Obama but most things he is dealing with are not of his doing and it is ridiculous to blame him for them.

"I'll make a recommendation: let the Middle East burn."

So far he seems to be listening to you and, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about that.

#3 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-25 07:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Good grief what a 'democratic' party hack sullivan has become.

Obama is just as guilty as bush for continuing the same fascist imperial policies that the american empire has been engaged in since ww2.

He is just another war criminal who belongs at the Hague. Just like the rest.

#4 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-25 07:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Obama is just as guilty as bush for continuing the same fascist imperial policies that the american empire has been engaged in since ww2.

He is just another war criminal who belongs at the Hague. Just like the rest.

Okay, I'll bite. Just what should Obama have done once he was in the White House that had the public and Republican Party behind him doing it? Does any president owe a debt to the military for paying the price for what a predecessor and Congress did, or do you truly believe that any president would immediately, without consideration for inevitable fallout, just order the military to walk away from a situation created before he took office?

That's just what this article is about and it has zero to do with partisan politics. The same values apply whether it was Obama or Nixon. On one point you are right: this was not a fight the US needed to take on. But once that decision was made, dealing with the repercussions was as inevitable as the fact we've never been able to control what the ME is going through and the same things would have happened eventually regardless of what the US does. It isn't the president's fault things are beyond our control regardless of what we do.

#5 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-06-25 08:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Some things, like bugging Angela Merkel's phone could rightly be blamed on Obama but most things he is dealing with are not of his doing and it is ridiculous to blame him for them.

#3 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-25 07:21 PM | Reply |

How about the destabilization of a duly elected Ukranian president?

#6 | Posted by matsop at 2014-06-25 08:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I'll make a recommendation: let the Middle East burn."

So far he seems to be listening to you and, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about that.

#3 | Posted by danni

We didn't start the fire. But, instead of throwing water on it I think we used gasoline so we do some responsibilty, unfortunately.

Personally I am angry that we are still so stupid as to allow our military equipment to fall into the hands of these fanatics. I am pretty sure we have the ability to put trackers on these weapons systems and if they ever fall into the wrong hands we have the right to destroy them so they are useless.

If a fanatic happens to be driving it at the time we render it useless then that is Allah's Will.

#7 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-25 09:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

we do "have" some responsibility...

#8 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-25 09:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#5. Your question is a red herring. He was put in place to do exactly as he has done, and so was bush. And you are wrong about the reasons for this fight: oil. And claiming that it is not their fault is like saying that millions of dead Jews, gypsies, and Russians wasn't Hitlers fault. It damn well is their fault, and if it were China or Russia doing it you fake liberals would be calling for war crimes trials.

More disingenuous claptrap.

#9 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-25 09:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

While it is true the EVERYTHING is not a consequence of American hegemony, it is even more absurd to think that violent acts directed the United States have NOTHING to do with American hegemony. This has nothing to do with "blame America first", it is a matter of learning cause and effect in a historical context. Its what the CIA calls blowback, its is their "speciality". The devastation, wasted money and lives knows no end. The CIA and NSA are useless vicious criminals who just pretend to be defending us, they are really just agents for enriching the 1%, who are enemies of the 99%. There are only two issues in politics, money and morality. Our system has taken morality off the table.

#10 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-06-25 09:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Politically correct garbage nutcase. You are apologizing for the same kind of fascist imperialism that Hitler practiced, and Nazis were hung for: starting an aggressive war.

#11 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-25 09:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

I have to chuckle when I hear the statement about exporting our "values" to other sovereigns. We no longer have any "values" to export. We're a morally corrupt nation and it's worsened in the last decade. Of course, other sovereigns are no better but some of them don't attempt to force themselves on other nations politics and economies like we do. We meddle and then wonder why there are so many that dislike us. We support democratically elected governments that cow tow to us but yet undermine those that don't. In fact, we consistently support dictatorships that do our bidding even though they have blood on their hands as relates to human rights and the shuttering of a free press. A lot of this has been a culmination of years of enlarging government and power within that government that no longer represent those going to the polls but instead the ruling elite and the existence of the very bureaucratic monster they're a part of.

#12 | Posted by matsop at 2014-06-25 09:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

apologizing???? I condemn it in no uncertain terms.

#13 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-06-25 09:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

#12

Absolutely dead-nuts spot on!

#14 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-06-25 09:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

#12.

1. The American empire never had any values other than more power. Read Smedley Butlers: War is a Racket.

2. There are no large scale democracies on earth; and we overthrow anyone regardless of government who disobeys.

3. The American empire is on its way out.

That is all.

#15 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-25 10:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

"How about the destabilization of a duly elected Ukranian president?"

If you have evidence please present it. By the same token, if Ukrainians tired of the incredibly corrupt Yanukovych, who then authorized the murder of upwards of 80 people and then fled to Russia....I think that the Ukranian interim President and the succeeding elected President have done everything in their power to stabilize a nation purposely destabilized by Putin. I know it, you know it, everyone knows it. Please don't embarrass yourself by pretending you don't.

#16 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-25 10:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Rarely has any American administration experienced so much ignominious failure, or had its ignorance and miscalculation so brutally exposed."

Well,excluding Dubya...

ISIS- child of saudi sunnis just like al queda. Cheney was told about them in 2006 and decided to give them money rather than risk the Bush family's saudistani cash flow by telling saudistan where to get off. 9-11 was a saudi operation and yet, somehow, America invaded Iraq. Then surrendered.

#17 | Posted by northguy3 at 2014-06-25 10:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

2. There are no large scale democracies on earth;

I think India might disagree.

#18 | Posted by northguy3 at 2014-06-25 10:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Your question is a red herring. He was put in place to do exactly as he has done, and so was bush.

Red herring? My question is the only relevant way to justify your criticism of people who were never able to control the Middle Eastern strife in the first place!

And you are wrong about the reasons for this fight: oil. And claiming that it is not their fault is like saying that millions of dead Jews, gypsies, and Russians wasn't Hitlers fault. It damn well is their fault, and if it were China or Russia doing it you fake liberals would be calling for war crimes trials.

Just like the one's we called for over Tibet and Burma, along with the way we ran to the Hague over the Soviet attrocities in Afghanistan before we got sucked into the same hellhole?

This is reality, not an exercise in self-righteousness. All reasoned people want government and the decisions that it makes to be legal, constitutional and moral. But I cannot imagine any human construct of government or society that can or ever will be as pure as our hopes and dreams. Humans will always be fallible and subject to life's possibilities far beyond any nation's ability to shape them as they desire.

We have to be realistic that no form of government has ever been what we want ours to be, but most importantly on this subject, there are two very salient points.

Point #1: Whether George Bush wrongly started an invasion in 2003, the various factions and governments in the ME would STILL be undergoing violent change in ways that threaten our -- and the globe's -- stated strategic interests including fostering stable, peaceful societies. And this is not our fight, but we have to understand how people willingly submitted to doing it and that there was never any way possible that we could positively effect the outcome through the projection of our military. Everything afterward stems from the reality the ME isn't about US, it's about THEM -- the people living there. They will still be fighting long after you and I are gone. History repeatedly tells us this same story, and man never chooses to learn from his past when it comes to religion.

Point #2: Because any alpha-society evolves a beast that eventually grows out of control, the best we can do is choose between one of two people who will do the least harm and hopefully the most good, fully knowing that they'll also inevitably do something we absolutely hate. We're humans, remember?

In no universe do I believe the public got it wrong in 2008 and 2012 given their choice. And I believe history will bear that out.

#19 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-06-25 10:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

A lot of this has been a culmination of years of enlarging government

Oh nonsense Mattsy. Think Spanish-America war. Think Indian wars. Think war of 1812. All of these imperialistic moves happened back when government was small and Americans were virtuous.

Do you know everything you post anymore ends up sounding like "Back in my day the damn kids stayed off our lawns!"?

#20 | Posted by northguy3 at 2014-06-25 10:57 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"We bribe some petulant children with aid, weapons or trade agreements."

All while thinking we are not children ourselves.

#21 | Posted by TheTom at 2014-06-26 12:17 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

-He was put in place to do exactly as he has done,

Cheap conspiracy claptrap.

#22 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-26 12:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

Obama HAS been a miserable failure at foreign policy, whether we are discussing the Middle East or not. He has alienated allies left and right and selectively chosen to intervene in a few conflicts while ignoring others. In doing so he has emboldened a few regional players who believe they can act with impunity, fearing no reprisal from the US.
#2 | POSTED BY MUSTANG AT 2014-06-25 10:15 AM | FLAG: ANOTHER STEAMING PILE OF STUPID

Oh gawd another vague edict from the land of vapid thoughts. Did you even think before you hit enter? seriously take a look at this thought.
"selectively chosen to intervene blah blah while ignoring blopadablam." It is so inane I can't bring myself to type it all out.

Well golly gee wiz he just can't be everywhere at once. Bet you want to see some of that there ACA money so he could be everywhere policing the world.

Give me the list of the allies he alienated? Tell us in what way they are alienated. Then demonstrate where they were last time the US stuck its foot in the muck that is Iraq or points east or west of it. If they were part of the "coalition of the willing shills" they grew tired of playing war with us and bailed just as soon as they discovered the war was not going to pay for itself.

We know how Europe felt.. both Eastern and Western.

The Arab nations in the region didn't put a single boot on the ground but were happy to sell us oil and jet fuel so we could look for bin Laden elsewhere.

We had the world on our side after 9/11 and then they were holding riots trying to get their government to talk some sense into Bush when he was going off to get that man who tried to kill his dad-eh.

Oh now its Obama's emboldened a few regional players. Since when hasn't Russia been emboldened about something? Grow a brain! Helloooooo Russia is one of the words largest nuclear powers. They have been enboldened for decades. I How long were they in Afghanistan trying to get rid of the religious whackos milling around at their borders. Seriously. They had their asses handed to them... with a little help from us. ran? pfffftttt!!!... remember why Rumsfeld shook hand with Saddam?

al Queda was born out of our assisting them defeat the Russians. Bush rather than just going after bin Laden decides he is going to single handedly stuff all the toothpaste back in the tube of Reagan/Bush foreign policy.

Just because Vlad runs around in waders and shirtless doesn't mean anything. If you recall... Obama was over there trying to work some foreign policy with Putin and Xi... and while he was gone the ------------ congress was here shutting down the government... all because their 49th vote to repeal the ACA didn't fly. The world got to see that... and you think Obama has alienated our allies and emboldend the enemies? Puh-lease the ------------ led congress was too busy scrapping over the ACA rather than deal with Libya, or Syria to offer anything to the decision making policies.

Right now you don't hear them going all out about this because for the first time since the ----------- took over the congress to change everything Obama they are against the wall and going to actually have to make the decision on this one.

Maybe they can vote 53 times to make Putin leave the Ukraine... or stage a walkout and shut down the government if ISIS takes over Baghdad.

Obama started hi first two years compromising wand trying to work with the -------------. since then no matter what he did it was obstructionism. In fact they were so busy obstructing they got nothing else done and Obama has managed to accomplish a lot with out their participation because for three and a half years they worked on one thing and failed.

Now you have your tails all tied in a knot because Obama can;t clean up a foreign policy that mess that was started with 8 years of Bush fast enough for you. You people are idiots.

#23 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-06-26 03:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

Now you have your tails all tied in a knot because Obama can;t clean up a foreign policy that mess that was started with 8 years of Bush fast enough for you. You people are idiots.

#23 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-06-26 03:37 AM | Reply

Let's see; you were saying that after one year in office----then 2,3,4,5 and now 6. When does this guy take responsibility for anything on his watch. I forgot----we give those that are incompetent and without qualifications much longer. Even Bill Clinton understands that concept. I'm more concerned about his lack of domestic economics and obvious hastening to destroy completely the domestic economy (or lack thereof) in the last 2 years of his time in office. He's doing a fine job with his destruction of our sovereignty through his open border policies. We're just increasing the numbers that will need social service support and the underclass will grow. That will mean more taxes on the middle class and a dwindling of the middle class. Third world status is at the end of the tunnel. A lot of "changey" but "hopey" is now gone. The con game is now coming to fruition.

#24 | Posted by matsop at 2014-06-26 06:07 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

India is not a democracy. Unlike the ussa, it could be called something resembling a real republic.

And as for being suckered. I call bs. Power wanted Iraqi oil, and got it. The rest is lying/posturing. Congress knew full damn well that bush/cheney were lying. They are ALL liars.

There is no justification for fascist imperialism. You are dancing.

#25 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-26 07:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

"And as for being suckered. I call bs. Power wanted Iraqi oil, and got it. The rest is lying/posturing. Congress knew full damn well that bush/cheney were lying. They are ALL liars."

"Paranoia, they destroy ya". I honestly don't think Bush knew he was lying to the public (early on)...he was just a simple creature, and easy to manipulte. Cheney & Rumsfeld orchestrated this whole mess, but I don't think "oil" was the driver. Congress had an obligation to protect America after 9/11, and they were not going to vote against CIA evidence of WMD, regardless of how underwhelming it was. That would have been political suicide in an era when the whole country was hyper sensitive to "what was going to happen next".

Invading Iraq for oil seems like an easy gotcha for libs to make. I think it was more about re-building the middle east & trying to impose our version of democracy, while injecting the Military Industrial Complex with billions of dollars in Govt funding. Regardless of the reason why, invading Iraq was a tragic mistake that our country is still paying for. Obama cannot be held to blame for the issues in Iraq. He can be held to blame for not being a strong leader in a time when the country desperately needs his leadership on many, many other issues.

#26 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2014-06-26 08:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

and obvious hastening to destroy completely the domestic economy (or lack thereof) in the last 2 years of his time in office. He's doing a fine job with his destruction of our sovereignty through his open border policies. We're just increasing the numbers that will need social service support and the underclass will grow. That will mean more taxes on the middle class and a dwindling of the middle class. Third world status is at the end of the tunnel. A lot of "changey" but "hopey" is now gone. The con game is now coming to fruition.

#24 | Posted by matsop at 2014-06-26 06:07 AMFlag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

That you get fewer people to argue with you over tripe like this just means we're tired of arguing with you. not that you're less crazy.

Why don't you stand bravely with Michelle Bachman and defund the Executive Branch? If things are as dire as you say, then you'll have no problem fighting the Good Fight with Michelle in these few remaining months before she attains Swiss citizenship.

#27 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-26 08:16 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I think that you are lying to yourself. Learn some more about oil since ww1.

#28 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-26 11:33 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"That you get fewer people to argue with you over tripe like this just means we're tired of arguing with you. not that you're less crazy."

Well said, they should hear that more often because it is the absolute truth. I get so tired of the same right wing garbage being repeated that I find it just too much trouble to even respond to it most of the time. RCADE's decision about global warming deniers the other day was a welcome change.

#29 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-26 12:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

like bugging Angela Merkel's phone could rightly be blamed on Obama but most things he is dealing with are not of his doing and it is ridiculous to blame him for them.

#3 | Posted by danni

Are you sound asleep? He has been in orfice for 5 years now and it's about time he takes responsibility for what his political apointees do.

#30 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-26 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

A final number for real US GDP growth in the first quarter of 2014 was released today. The number is not the 2.6% growth rate predicted by the know-nothing economists in January of this year. The number is a decline in GDP of -2.9%. That number is itself an understatement. The -2.9% was achieved by deflating nominal GDP with an understated measure of inflation. During the Clinton regime, the Boskin Commission rigged the inflation measure in order to cheat Social Security recipients out of their cost-of-living adjustments. Anyone who purchases food, fuel, or anything knows that inflation is much higher than the officially reported number.

In an economy based on consumer demand, the absence of income and credit growth means no economic growth.

NATO now runs from the Baltics to Central Asia. In order to have a reason for NATO's continued expensive operation, Washington has had to construct an enemy out of Russia.

The US dollar is in trouble. The dollar is kept afloat by rigged financial markets and Washington's pressure on its vassal states to support the dollar's value by printing their own currencies and purchasing dollars. In order to keep the dollar afloat, much of the world will be inflated. When people finally catch on and rush into gold, the Chinese will have it all.

Sergey Glazyev, an adviser to President Putin, has told the Russian president that only an anti-dollar alliance that crashes the US dollar can halt Washington's aggression. There can be no peace as long as Washington can print more money with which to finance more wars.

Washington's leadership has totally failed the world, producing nothing but lies, violence, death, and the promise of more violence. America is exceptional only in the fact that Washington has, without remorse, destroyed in whole or part seven countries in the new 21st century. Unless Washington is replaced with more humane leadership, life on earth has no future. (Paul Craig Roberts)

#31 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-06-26 02:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

I get so tired of the same right wing garbage being repeated by both sides of the isle that I find it just too much trouble to even respond to it most of the time.

A basic rule of debate is that you either respond to being refuted with a further refutation, acknowledge the point, or shut up.

That is why I turn off most here. They just repeat talking points regardless of discussion.

#32 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-26 04:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

A basic rule of debate

#32 | Posted by Shawn at 2014

What are the basic rules of whining?

#33 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-26 04:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

We're just increasing the numbers that will need social service support and the underclass will grow. That will mean more taxes on the middle class and a dwindling of the middle class. Third world status is at the end of the tunnel. A lot of "changey" but "hopey" is now gone. The con game is now coming to fruition.

#24 | POSTED BY MATSOP AT 2014-06-26 06:07 AM | FLAG: NEEDS A DICTIONARY

Let me translate that little mish mash of generalized fortune telling into English so others can understand. Your prattle sounds like this.:P

We're just increasing the boohoohoohoohoo waaa waaa waaa sob sob sob huuuwaaaaaaa snif snif waaaaAAAAAAaaaa boo hoo boo hoo the cona game etc etc etc.

You need to stop doing that to yourself.

By definition we are a long way from being a third world country.

1st world countries are capitalist
2nd world countries are communist
3rd world countries are the little places the the 1st and 2nd world liberate by staging their proxy wars until that little nations takes a side. Vietnam is an example or a nations that went from 3rd world to 2nd world. Their economy is growing.

When unions held more power this country had a larger middle class. Feel free to do the research. the clown brigade will blame all the ills of the world on unions ... and if you look at the statistics especially since the Reagoon squad started deregulating and busting up the unions.

Change is inevitable. Hope comes and goes... and is generally a useless emotion. You know like hoping that getting rid of Saddam would change the middle east making it more stable. Instead it is a place where we spend an awful lot of our tax dollars for a whole lot of nothing.

Senator McClown and the rest of the ------------ war mongers think we should just keep bombing until they submit. That is the clown version of hopey changey.

We all know how well that worked.

#34 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-06-27 01:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

India is not a democracy. Unlike the ussa, it could be called something resembling a real republic.

#25 | Posted by Shawn

What do you think the US is?

The US is a democratic republic.

#35 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-27 10:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

For those who wondered what happened to Robert Gibbs, President Obama's former campaign advisor and mealy-mouthed White House press secretary, he has resurfaced in the private sector with "Insite Agency". Incite Agency is going to launch a national public relations campaign aimed at destroying America's teachers' unions.

When you consider that Obama has surrounded himself with anti-union people (Rahm Emanuel, Arne Duncan, Eric Holder, et al), this vile announcement should come as no surprise, not to people who've been paying attention. We're reminded of that Lily Tomlin line: "I worry that no matter how cynical I become, it's never going to be enough."

These same guys (the ones who want more toll roads and want to charge fees for walking on hiking trails) now want to privatize America's public education system. The prospect of millions of families willing to pay for something that they could otherwise get free has these covetous money-grubbers positively drooling. This would be a bonanza for the ruling class.

Private school teachers require less certification and are paid less. Yet these entrepreneurs want people to believe private schools somehow attract the best teachers. That argument wouldn't work for doctors. You couldn't convince people that the best physicians were the ones with the least education and lowest salaries. So how do they convince them that privatization is a smart move? They do it by demonizing the labor unions that represent the teachers.

The AFL-CIO better wake up and spend their money wisely. They must convince the American public that they're being played for suckers. There is still time. (David Macaray)

#36 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-06-27 11:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

Most people and the right and left do not understand that the Obama team is just another dirty trick aimed against working Americans. AS a result they talk around each other, clinging to complete falsehoods.

#37 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-06-27 11:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

Most people and the right and left do not understand that the Obama team is just another dirty trick aimed against working Americans. AS a result they talk around each other, clinging to complete falsehoods.

#37 | POSTED BY NUTCASE AT 2014-06-27 11:26 AM | FLAG: NONSENSE

I think everyone who seeks higher office has high ideals and is not bent on the destructions of the nation. We were given a choice I thought and still think Obama is the better choice.

Obama is more in touch with what it is like to be working class than any of the recent ------------ contenders. Bush, Bush, McClown and Romney all silver spooners who are all clueless.

Clinton and Obama both rose from nothing to become president.

I could say the same for Reagan which is why he was so tax and spendy ...but alas... he was one of those weird Hollyweird types which also made him delusional.

If you want to talk about government cover-ups. Reagan is the pinnacle of ------------- masking their classism hegemony and using him as the personable face of the ------------- party. The did the same thing with Bush the younger and lessor. That guy you wanna have a beer with. Then they set out vilifying the poor and the working class as they set about turning more and more working class into the working poor.

Obama has done more to address the needs of the poor while the ------------- beat their chests blathering at the top of their voices about how he has made more dependent on the government. Even sadder his how the little drones slash their own throats chime in with them.

Right... as if the wealthy weren't dependent on the government. Puh-leeze! Take away this government and the wealthy would run off and try buy another one somewhere else. Or they would spend vast fortunes to make one as soon as possible. Which is why they fear revolutions and anarchy. The wealthy need a government to protect their interest.

#38 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-06-27 01:21 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#38

LOL Yeah that Obama really stuck it to the rich, lol!

#39 | Posted by LIVE_OR_DIE at 2014-06-27 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Nutcase...

Would you please add links to the C&P's you post? I'd like to read them in their original forms.

#40 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-06-27 02:22 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Obama is more in touch with what it is like to be working class than any of the recent ------------ contenders.

#38 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-06-27 01:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

I second LOD - LOL. Arugula. Harvard. 1.65 million dollar Chicago home. Yeah, really in touch with the "working class" of the US. Just like Clinton was "dead broke" - if that's what you mean by "in touch" than yeah, they both are right there.

#41 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2014-06-27 02:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

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