Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, June 20, 2014

Jeffrey Goldberg: One of the reasons I don't find myself overly exercised by the apparent collapse of Iraq (and one of the reasons I don't think it would be wise for the U.S. to rush into Iraq in order to "fix" it) is that I've believed for a while that no glue could possibly hold the place together. This is a case in which President Obama's natural caution, and his understandable desire to steer clear of Middle Eastern slaughterhouses, is a good thing. ... The makers of the modern Middle East roped together peoples of different ethnicities and faiths (or streams of the same faith) in what were meant to be modern, multicultural, and multi-confessional states. It is an understatement to say that the Middle East isn't the sort of place where this kind of experiment has been shown to work.

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rcade

 

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I don't think it is worth American money, or certainly American lives, to keep Iraq a unitary state. It is, of course, important to invest in plans that forestall the creation of permanent jihadist safe havens, and about this the U.S. should be vigilant, more vigilant than it has been. But Westphalian obsessiveness -- Iraq must stay together because it must stay together -- just doesn't seem wise.

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"I've believed for a while that no glue could possibly hold the place together."

Well there was Saddam.

Other than that, I agree with the basic premise of the article.

#1 | Posted by Sully at 2014-06-20 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

""I've believed for a while that no glue could possibly hold the place together.
"Well there was Saddam...
"

saddam was the glue of iraq...

...until he got pasted.

#2 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-06-20 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

There would have been a much easier and cheaper way to take out Saddam. AKA the OBL Method.

#3 | Posted by path at 2014-06-20 04:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

The New Map of the Middle East

#4 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-06-20 04:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

We think we have the right to interfere everywhere with everybody else and still be left alone. Vietnam, Columbia, Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, and now Ukraine, its human misery for millions, a product of failed Neocon thinking. It has gotten a few people rich, which is always the point. The human misery doesn't count.

#5 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-06-20 04:59 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

A map where all guns are pointed toward Israel...

#6 | Posted by catdog at 2014-06-20 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

"A map where all guns are pointed toward Israel..."

thieves usually end up getting what they deserve...

#7 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-06-20 05:24 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

They seemed to be fine till WW1. Then the Allies (British) drew arbitrary borders, and it's been a cluster **** since. We should just let them sort it out.

It's their space, not ours.

#8 | Posted by bat4255 at 2014-06-20 05:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I wonder if the Imam al-Mahdi is getting warmed up for his debut?

#9 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-06-20 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, Esau now wants to tell us how the middle east should be divided?

Jacob has other thoughts.

#10 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-06-20 06:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

#1 exactly. Shortly after the invasion, during the seldom-talked-about Paul Bremer and Coalition Provisional Authority days, which in my opinion is when we really and deliberately lost the war, through de-Baathification...

There was a prescient political cartoon with generals in the Pentagon looking over a map of Iraq. The caption was something like "Kurds in the north, Sunni and Shia fighting in the south... what this country needs is a dictator!"

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-20 06:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

The US intervened in Bosnia and Kuwait and I think those were good moves. Most other military interventions have been a disaster.

#12 | Posted by bored at 2014-06-20 07:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Removing Saddam was a good deed, in and of itself, for EXACTLY the SAME reasons that removing Assad would be a good deed.

Having said that...

Removing Saddam was unwise, for EXACTLY the SAME reasons that removing Assad would be unwise.

Do a good thing once, and have it turn badly, is an honest mistake. Doing it twice is MUCH worse.

#13 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-06-21 07:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

Biden was right in 2006:

www.nbcnews.com

Some kind of partition between self-governing Sunni, Shiite and Kurd regions was a better long-term plan.

#14 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-21 10:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Some kind of partition between self-governing Sunni, Shiite and Kurd regions was a better long-term plan."

What kind of long-term partioning plan do you recommend for the U.S.?

* Did you know that Hilliard, Ohio, Public school has a special room for Muslims to pray? AND, there are others. Check it all out yourself.

* Obama Administration Announces Nationwide Muslim Outreach Program For Children Grades K-12

* The program is designed to educate children about the fundamentals of the Muslim religion and Islamic belief.

* I encourage every student in America to participate in your school's Muslim outreach program. Learn about the Muslim community, the beauty of the Sunnah and the magic of the Qur'an."

* 35-year-old Paul Horner, a teacher at Starks Elementary School in Louisiana, told MSNBC he is excited about the new programs. "I think anything a child can learn is good. We need more learning in this country. And, these classes are not mandatory but children can use them as extra credit towards other classes. For example, if Becky has a D+ in math she can simply take a three week after school class on the Qur'an and now has an A in Math. How great is that?"

* Khaled Matei, who is a member of the Muslim Brotherhood's Freedom and Justice Party, told CNN he is pleased with Obama and his actions. "I spoke with President Obama by telephone yesterday and personally thanked him for what he is doing for the Muslim community," Matei said. "This is definitely a step in the right direction I explained to him. Praise Allah." If any parents of students would like to volunteer to teach the Muslim religion you can call the United States."

Muslim Outreach hotline at (785) 273-0325 (785) 273-0325.

#15 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-06-22 09:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

bored,

Bosnia ??? Our bombing is justified ??? We do not really know? Is breaking up all these countries we target serving a greater good?

There is good reason to believe Chevron was drilling horizontally into Iraq from Kuwait when Saddam invaded Kuwait. We do know that incompetent or deliberate US Ambassador to Iraq April Glassby mislead Saddam Hussein by demanding and audience when he lined troops up on the border and then told him, The US does not get involved in disputes between Arab States.(The British carved Kuwait out of Iraq)

#16 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-06-22 10:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

What kind of long-term partioning plan do you recommend for the U.S.?

I'm surprised you have the time to post here. There could be a Muslim hiding under your bed. You better check.

#17 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-22 10:56 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#15 | Posted by jestgettinalong at

You're crazy. Sorry, you just leave me in awe at times.

#18 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-22 11:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

#15 | Posted by jestgettinalong at

You're crazy. Sorry, you just leave me in awe at times.

#18 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-22 11:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

No, he's not, he's worried about the indoctrination of young minds and the future of this country.

Why not you?

rwd

#19 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-06-22 12:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

19 | Posted by rightwingdon at

Have you ever, even once, considered that there's something wrong with the way you think?

I don't see any wave of public sentiment or government will to make Sharia law in this country or convert people to Islam.

I wonder if you just never apply logic and common sense to such things, or if you just take that useful giant step over them?

#20 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-22 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

"There could be a Muslim hiding under your bed. You better check."

Oh, no...they're pretty much out from under beds and are killing, beheading, burning, torturing and executing pretty much everywhere out in the open now. Or, maybe you just don't follow any news and just rely on Obummus, Reid, Pelosi and the rest of the Keystone Kops for your info. By the way, did you check on ANY of the contentions in that post??? Nawwwwww...

#21 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-06-22 12:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I wonder if you just never apply logic and common sense to such things,..."

Due to your LACK of common sense and logic, I can understand why you think it's perfectly OK to teach Islam in our schools while every other religious subject is prohibited..

* Obama Administration Announces Nationwide Muslim Outreach Program For Children Grades K-12
* The program is designed to educate children about the fundamentals of the Muslim religion and Islamic belief.
* I encourage every student in America to participate in your school's Muslim outreach program. Learn about the Muslim community, the beauty of the Sunnah and the magic of the Qur'an."
* 35-year-old Paul Horner, a teacher at Starks Elementary School in Louisiana, told MSNBC he is excited about the new programs. "I think anything a child can learn is good. We need more learning in this country. And, these classes are not mandatory but children can use them as extra credit towards other classes. For example, if Becky has a D+ in math she can simply take a three week after school class on the Qur'an and now has an A in Math. How great is that?"

#22 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-06-22 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Have you ever, even once, considered that there's something wrong with the way you think?

#20 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-22 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not at all Zed. In a more moderate climate I tend to be more compromising.

And by moderate I don't mean it to agree with you, rcade, corky, danni or roma.

Until then when you finally realize what the danger Islam posses to this country I'm content to give them no quarter.

The very fact you question the way I think proves to me your intolerance.

The politics of Islam is not for a single decisive win but a long term struggle to change our society and our laws.

rwd

#23 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-06-22 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

I can understand why you think it's perfectly OK to teach Islam in our schools while every other religious subject is prohibited..

#23 | Posted by rightwingdon

I've seen Christianity taught as history and the Bible taught as liteature.

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-22 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

The very fact you question the way I think proves to me your intolerance.

#23 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-06-22 12:47 PM

I think you're crazy. If that makes me intolerant, I'll own it.

To cut through some of this nonsense.....You think Obama is a Muslim, don't you?

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-22 02:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

#15 | Posted by jestgettinalong
#22 | Posted by jestgettinalong

www.politifact.com

www.truthorfiction.com

#26 | Posted by et_al at 2014-06-22 02:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

You think Obama is a Muslim, don't you?

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-22 02:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

No, why would you ask that, I've never stated that or alluded to it.

To go further, I think Obama is not really in control of his policy decisions or he follows really really bad advice. I don't know which is worse at this point.

As for you thinking I'm crazy, all I can say is who cares what you think. So there.

rwd

#27 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-06-22 03:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

I've seen Christianity taught as history and the Bible taught as liteature.

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-22 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

But I'll bet you never seen it taught to blow yourself up, did you?

Who are the Islamic suicide bombers and why do they blow themselves up?

rwd

#28 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-06-22 03:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

There could be a Muslim hiding under your bed. You better check.

#17 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-22 10:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Or worse....a liberal! They're like cockroaches though and hide when the truth (light) turns on.

#29 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2014-06-22 03:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

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