Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, June 19, 2014

A new father and local musician is dead after a stray bullet pierced the wall of his Florida home on Tuesday and struck him in the back of the head. Justin Ayers, 33, and his wife were welcoming their 3-day-old baby home from the hospital with relatives when Ayers was killed. The bullet came from the house next door, where Charles Edward Shisler, 62, picked up a .9 mm pistol by the trigger, causing it to discharge. When sheriff's deputies arrived, they found Shisler standing on his porch, although he initially was "belligerent" and uncooperative. Shisler told deputies he had tried to pick up the gun by its trigger. Deputies arrested Shisler and charged him with manslaughter and for being a convicted felon in possession of a handgun. He had a previous felony weapons conviction from 2006.

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snoofy

 

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

My question for the crowd who believes that people should be able to possess guns is how to we stop someone like this killer from possessing one?

Is there no way? As best I can tell there is no way. There's no way I can think of to achieve "separate but equal" ownership of guns where only the good guys have them.

#1 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-18 08:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Only thing worse than an idiot with a gun is a drunk idiot with a gun. That poor child will now grow up never knowing its father who, from the brief description, sounds like a pretty cool guy. So sad. So unnecessary.

#2 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-18 08:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Is there no way?"

No. Just get used to it, since it's only going to get worse.

#3 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-06-18 08:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Deputies arrested Shisler and charged him with manslaughter and for being a convicted felon in possession of a handgun. He had a previous felony weapons conviction from 2006, according to the Herald News

Proof you can't keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Make all the laws you want restricting firearms but ------ like this guy will always have a gun.

Thanks for validating the pro gun rights argument snoofy.

Who woulda thought.

rwd

#4 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-06-18 09:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Proof you can't keep guns out of the hands of criminals.
#4 | Posted by rightwingdon

Of course, thanks to the greedy, heartless death merchants the world round, anyone getting hold of guns never seems to be a problem. They can always be found in the most desolate and desperate corners of the globe.
Might as well let them flow in the streets.

#5 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-06-18 09:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

These gun threads always bring out the nuts, on both sides.

#10 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-06-18 11:01 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

My question for the crowd who believes that people should be able to possess guns is how to we stop someone like this killer from possessing one? - Snoofy

There is no way... but it is still a right regardless of your protestations. but to be clear I do believe people should have safety classes and other education.

#11 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-06-18 11:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

"a stray bullet pierced the wall of his Florida home "

That's a shame.

#13 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-06-19 12:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

Proof you can't keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Make all the laws you want restricting firearms but ------ like this guy will always have a gun.

Were we to ban all firearms at the national level it would be a whole lot harder for him to come by one.

"This is why we can't have nice things."

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 02:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

Convicted felon illegally possessing firearm accidentally kills neighbor. Therefore by deduction all firearms should be banned from society and from law abiding citizens.

It made perfect sense and an excuse for the Commies in the USSR and Nazis in Germany and the Commie wannabees in the USA. Many believe that support for laws leading to neutering the masses, leads to the establishment of big authoritarian governments of Party elites and eventually taking a free society into tyranny. Those that are running government often have a thirst and desire for ever expanding power, which will always be aided along by a powerless society.

The philosophy of "political correctness" that the Communists created is inevitably intended to make any criticism of government anti-American behavior, just as it did when it was created in the USSR.

#17 | Posted by Robson at 2014-06-19 08:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

We need to outlaw all accidents! But before we do it the politicians will wish to use the tragedy to serve their political purposes.

#18 | Posted by Robson at 2014-06-19 08:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

This happened 4 miles from where I work. The young Dad was a very talented musician who performed locally as well as teaching guitar lessons. He was well known in the music community here. Tragic beyond words. And no amount of laws could have prevented this, he was a convicted felon in possession of a fire arm which is against the law. The funeral is Saturday.

#19 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2014-06-19 10:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

Make all the laws you want restricting firearms but ------ like this guy will always have a gun.

And it will be one of the charges that gets them locked up longer when they commit a crime and the gun is found in their possession.

Surely you agree with the laws against convicted felons possessing handguns.

#20 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-19 10:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

#20 Of course I agree that they should not own guns. The idiot judge set bail for him $167,000. That is the problem.

#21 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2014-06-19 10:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Were we to ban all firearms at the national level it would be a whole lot harder for him to come by one."

are you serious? that's a nice thought, but surely you realize how politically unrealistic that notion is.

#22 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-19 10:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Proof you can't keep guns out of the hands of criminals."

the only proof i see is that with the laws as they are today you can't keep them out of the hands of criminals

is your logic capacity really that flawed? rhetorical question.

#23 | Posted by klifferd at 2014-06-19 10:12 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

more than this guy getting locked up for a longer sentence, I'm primarily interested in a guy like this not having a gun at all.

#24 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-19 10:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

ban hand guns.

#25 | Posted by klifferd at 2014-06-19 10:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

"ban hand guns"

run for office and put that as your campaign slogan......

#26 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-19 10:14 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Surely you agree with the laws against convicted felons possessing handguns.

#20 | POSTED BY RCADE

Yes

#27 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-19 10:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

Just another upstanding citizen exercising his second amendment rights. The shooter that is, not the shootee. What are the shootee's rights here? Shouldn't there be a right to not get shot in your own home?

#28 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2014-06-19 10:41 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

These and other types of accidents with guns are obviously a tolerable phenomenon for the gun nuts. Cost of doing business, it seems. Why don't they just say so?

#29 | Posted by midiman at 2014-06-19 10:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why don't they just say so?

#29 | POSTED BY MIDIMAN

Has nothing to do with business, or nuttiness..

All accidents are the cost of being human, yes. Highway fatalities are the cost of allowing fallible humans to operate deadly machinery (a far greater impact than gun accidents, I might add).

Want to have the privilege of gazing off the cliff of the Grand Canyon. Humans gonna fall to their deaths sometimes.

Wanna go swimming?

The list is endless, and I can't even imagine anyone is stupid enough to not understand this. You're just trolling

Gun accidents are rare as far as accidents go. The purpose behind the freedom of everyday people to possess firearms is definitely worth the cost.

There, a sane rational defender of gun rights said it. Happy?

#30 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-19 11:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

Were we to ban all firearms at the national level it would be a whole lot harder for him to come by one.
"This is why we can't have nice things."

#16 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2014-06-19 02:42 AM | FLAG:

Exactly like prohibition and the war on drugs. Those worked great.

#31 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-06-19 11:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

.. in addition, I believe Shisler should be executed or put away for life. There's no excuse for what he did.

#32 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-19 11:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Were we to ban all firearms at the national level it would be a whole lot harder for him to come by one.

Isnt it banned on the national level for a criminal to have a firearm already?

So what would it change to ban it from law abiding citizens?

#33 | Posted by boaz at 2014-06-19 11:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

As someone else stated above, apparently these types of needless and otherwise avoidable deaths are just the cost of business of having the 2nd Amendment. America is truly a twisted nation.

#34 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-06-19 11:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

Accidents happen. At work I sometimes blame stray particles from the Antares Galaxy. This was a stray bullet from the Gun Nut Galaxy.

#35 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-19 11:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

Amazing that Florida is holding someone responsible for this shocking act. I'll wager that the manslaughter count will be fought with the aid of some local loons who think this irresponsible ex-con was within his rights to pop a cap through his wall...

#36 | Posted by catdog at 2014-06-19 12:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Someone is going to die today from an accident in a car.

Same Same to me...

#37 | Posted by boaz at 2014-06-19 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

If more people would spay and neuter their bullets, then this wouldn't happen. Too many stray bullets out there running amok.

#38 | Posted by kanrei at 2014-06-19 12:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

So what would it change to ban it from law abiding citizens?

General availability. Its a statistics problem:

Fewer Available Guns => Fewer deaths by guns

Its been shown to be correlated in just about every other country that's restricted their ownership.

There are also many ways a felon (who should never be able to get a weapon) can get a gun here in the states. Gun shows are an obvious example.

#39 | Posted by apparatchik at 2014-06-19 12:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

And no amount of laws could have prevented this, he was a convicted felon in possession of a fire arm which is against the law. The funeral is Saturday.
#19 | Posted by gracieamazed

I'm fairly confident a law banning guns in our country would have prevented it. If there were no guns, there would be no guns for the killer to illegally possess. Simple enough.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm primarily interested in a guy like this not having a gun at all.
#24 | Posted by eberly

And how exactly do you think that might ever come to pass?
Short of banning all guns, I don't see how it can be done.
Do you see a way? Do tell.

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 12:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

#41

nope. I don't see a way.

Are you suggesting that we ban all guns?

#42 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-19 12:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Isnt it banned on the national level for a criminal to have a firearm already?
So what would it change to ban it from law abiding citizens?
#33 | Posted by boaz

What would it change for law abiding citizens? It would keep law abiding citizens alive. By contrast, the law abiding citizen in this story is dead.

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 12:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Are you suggesting that we ban all guns?
#42 | Posted by eberly

Yes.

Can one infer from your question that, despite your claim of being "primarily interested in a guy like this not having a gun at all" there's something you're even more primarily interested in? Do tell.

#44 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 12:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Except for when the law abiding citizen needs to protect themselves from the criminals you conveniently seem to forget as the police are minutes away..

And you will never be able to remove weapons from the U.S. so one is not available when someone wants it. It's just not going to happen. Then, the weapon becomes a premium item. Only gangsters will have them and people would still die.

#45 | Posted by boaz at 2014-06-19 12:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Gun shows are an obvious example.

#39 | POSTED BY APPARATCHIK AT 2014-06-19 12:24 PM | FLAG:

Gun shows, you walk around, you might find a handful of people selling something in a private party transaction. It's usually relatively expensive rifles. They sling them and stick signs in the barrels. If I had to guess at an average, probably 2 per show, with tens of thousands of people going through.

Why bother? You can drive 5 minutes away from the convention center and buy whatever you want for 75%+ off.

#46 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-06-19 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Except for when the law abiding citizen needs to protect themselves from the criminals you conveniently seem to forget as the police are minutes away..

Why not protect yourself with a knife or a car? Those are just as deadly, right?

#47 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Except for when the law abiding citizen needs to protect themselves from the criminals you conveniently seem to forget as the police are minutes away..

You're also overlooking that police could have been standing next to this now dead law-abiding citizen and it would have offered him no protection at all. Likewise had he been armed that would also not have offered him any protection.

About the only two things that would have protected him are: Stronger building codes, or the absence of guns from society.

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

....or the absence of guns from society.

or the absence of criminals from society? There should be automatic minimum sentencing for a repeated gun charge. Commit a felony crime with a gun, go to prison minimum 25 years.

#49 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-06-19 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

"ban hand guns"
run for office and put that as your campaign slogan......

#26 | POSTED BY EBERLY

"Yipee, another school shooting" - Repub campaign slogan

#50 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2014-06-19 01:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Can one infer from your question that, despite your claim of being "primarily interested in a guy like this not having a gun at all" there's something you're even more primarily interested in?"

no. nothing to infer. I own no guns. Never have. I normally do not participate in any gun related or shooting related threads.

In fact, gun control is one of the areas where I lean left.

I'm merely asking because it's political suicide and unrealistic regardless of who's in power.

#51 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-19 02:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

My question for the crowd who believes that people should be able to possess guns is how to we stop someone like this killer from possessing one?

#1 | Posted by snoofy

It was an illegal gun sno. A felon isn't allowed by law to posess a firearm. Them damn laws work well. Let's pass some more. I'm sure the next one will be obayed by a criminal. Picked up by the trigger and it went off, my a**. How does a two pound gun trip a five pound trigger when you pick it up?

#52 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-19 03:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Were we to ban all firearms at the national level it would be a whole lot harder for him to come by one.

#16 | Posted by snoofy

You mean like booze back in the 30s and dope now? Just exactly what dream world do you live in?

#53 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-19 03:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Surely you agree with the laws against convicted felons possessing handguns.

#20 | Posted by rcade

Don't be a ?. That law is already on the books.

#54 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-19 03:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just another upstanding citizen exercising his second amendment rights. The shooter that is, not the shootee. What are the shootee's rights here? Shouldn't there be a right to not get shot in your own home?

#28 | Posted by SomebodyElse

Are you trying to be a smart a**? A convicted fellon is NOT an upstanding citizen and he gave up his second amendment right when he got convicted of that fellony.

My right to punch you in the face ends at the skin on your face, unless you take the first swing.

#55 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-19 03:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ive never seen a ".9 mm" round before... must of been a special round. Get it right or you might ban the wrong one!!!!!!

#56 | Posted by monkeylogic42 at 2014-06-19 05:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Make all the laws you want restricting firearms but ------ like this guy will always have a gun.

And it will be one of the charges that gets them locked up longer when they commit a crime and the gun is found in their possession.

Surely you agree with the laws against convicted felons possessing handguns.
#20 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-19 10:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

We may be opposed politically rogers so don't be foolish with your sarcasm.

Of course I agree,... but.

rwd

#57 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-06-19 06:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

You mean like booze back in the 30s and dope now? Just exactly what dream world do you live in?
#53 | Posted by Sniper

I was going to say that alcohol and drugs are addictive and guns are not.
But I'm not so sure that's the case.
Can you imagine living without guns?
If "no" then I suspect you may in fact be addicted.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 06:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

"My question for the crowd who believes that people should be able to possess guns is how to we stop someone like this killer from possessing one?"

Nobody has an answer for this.

Presumably you've all done some sort of cost-benefit or risk-reward analysis and determined that random shootings are acceptable.

My analysis yields a different result.

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 06:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

My analysis yields a different result.

Posted by snoofy

Acceptable or not....inevitable and unpreventable, unless you can change reality. Sorry - confiscation is impossible.

#60 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-06-19 07:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry - confiscation is impossible.
#60 | Posted by Greatamerican

Australia taught us it's very possible.

unless you can change reality.
Well, I could move to a more civilized country. I'd rather see this country become more civilized though.

#61 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 08:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Acceptable or not....inevitable and unpreventable, unless you can change reality. Sorry - confiscation is impossible.

#60 | Posted by Greatamerican

Like we have never changed "reality" in this country.

Woman can now vote.

America stopped the Nazi juggernaut with the biggest invasion in history.

The Black Man has been set free and now has the right to vote.

Gays can legally marry.

Alcohol was illegal and is now legal again.

Pot will soon be legal.

I could go on and on.

Time to grow up GA. WE can change "reality" anytime we as a Nation decide to.

#62 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-19 08:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is not a constitutional issue, this is a criminal issue. The individual allowed his firearm to discharge killing his neighbor. We aren't too sophisticated down here but the charge would be neglect homicide. If the gun had gone off and not hit someone, it would be a charge of reckless endangerment. It is his fire arm, in his control, and he is responsible.

#63 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-06-19 10:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Australia taught us it's very possible.

Sure, point to an inapposite example. Cling to the sophistry.

#64 | Posted by et_al at 2014-06-19 10:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sure, point to an inapposite example. Cling to the sophistry.
#64 | Posted by et_al

Speaking of sophistry, I think you got some on you.

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 11:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Please ban all guns... with the el salvadorans that just got shipped through i can get one of those not on the radar pieces at the local flop house. Those fast n furious weapons had tracking devices didnt they? Oh, no? Gimme one of those too then... but yeah take the ones we know about for sure.

#66 | Posted by monkeylogic42 at 2014-06-20 03:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

Time to grow up GA. WE can change "reality" anytime we as a Nation decide to.

#62 | Posted by donnerboy

LOL! THAT is a fantasy...the reality of millions of unregistered guns being confiscated!

#67 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-06-20 03:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

My question for the crowd who believes that people should be able to possess guns is how to we stop someone like this killer from possessing one?
#1 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

My recommendation is to put the burden of ownership on the gun owners. I have no problems with legal gun ownership. My problem is that a very small number of legal distributors and owners deliberately allow firearms to get into the hands of those who should not own the weapons. On top of that, a larger number of legal owners do not adequately protect their guns which allows them to end up in the hands of gun thieves, young children, untrustworthy family and friends, etc.

Here is a rough draft of what I propose.

A chain of custody must be established from manufacture through distribution chains and down to the buyer. ALL sales must require a background check. Ownership of most (black powder excluded) firearms must be registered with law enforcement. Anyone found in possession of an unregistered weapon will have it confiscated and face a fine or stronger punishment. Any time a firearm is lost/stolen it must be reported to the authorities ASAP after the loss is discovered. If a firearm is used in a crime and said gun is identified by law enforcement then the registered legal owner should face strong charges if the weapon was not reported stolen. If a person is injured due to accidental discharge in the home, i.e. small child shoots someone, then the registered owner is held accountable.

Of course there are extenuating circumstances that can occur, gun stolen and immediately used in a crime before the owner has a chance to report. There needs to be some exceptions for that type of thing, but I do feel that if firearms distributors and owners would be more likely to face criminal charges for irresponsible sales/storage of weapons then it would greatly reduce the number of guns getting into the hands of those who should not have them.

And I recognize there are going to be some out there who balk at the registration idea. I look forward to hearing their reasoned responses and alternative recommendations.

#68 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2014-06-20 10:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

Getting tired of this propaganda on this site really.

How about some articles of all the people murdered by the cops; one article a piece?

How about some articles of all the people murdered by drones?

Power has always sought to control military technologies; and that is the purpose of this kind of unbalanced reporting: police state.

#69 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-20 01:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

"MY analysis..." HAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....HAH.

Do elaborate on your well thought out, rigorously researched and battle tested analysis.

#70 | Posted by monkeylogic42 at 2014-06-20 02:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

#69 | Posted by Shawn
"Getting tired of this propaganda on this site really."

Propaganda? It's a story. It's something that happened. There's no arguing as to whether or not it's news.

"How about some articles of all the people murdered by the cops; one article a piece? How about some articles of all the people murdered by drones?"

Yeah, how about some? Post away!
What are you waiting for?

#71 | Posted by TheTom at 2014-06-20 02:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Congratulations on missing the point. Why aren't there articles? Think. Use the force.

#72 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-20 02:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

#58 | Posted by snoofy

You dance reak well. NOW, Answer the question.

#73 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-20 04:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, I could move to a more civilized country. I'd rather see this country become more civilized though.

#61 | Posted by snoofy

Don't let the door hit you in the a**.

#74 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-20 04:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Crime in Australia.

www.worldpublicunion.org

#75 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-20 04:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Another innocent victim murdered by careless gun-nut, it happens EVERY DAY here in the USA.
I cross paths daily, with folks carrying holstered guns. I get as far away from them as possible. I have walked out of stores and restaurants many times because there is a gun-nut inside, I have no way of knowing if they have mental problems, or the intent to kill and injure people.

Sammy in gun CRAZY Arizona

#76 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-06-20 05:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'll bet they feel the same way about sam.

#77 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-06-20 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then get your sorry @$& BACK TO RI and quit polluting AZ,Sammy. We are a gun state, so keep being afraid.

#78 | Posted by willowby at 2014-06-21 12:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

Dangit sammy girl... whenever you use the term gun nut i picture my redneck relatives diligently cleaning and storing their collection in appropriate safes... they do nothing but get cleaned, look pretty, and occasionally bring in food or deal with rattlers. I dont picture a moron/felon neligently discharging cause he picked up a gun forgetting the first rule.

#79 | Posted by monkeylogic42 at 2014-06-21 03:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

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