Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, June 18, 2014

Simon Jenkins, The Guardian: The forces that drive democracies to war are as incorrigible as ever. Barack Obama is now abused as weak, David Cameron as vacillating. The media drive them on, demanding resolution and firmness, always professing a belief in the efficacy of air power and the need to "deter the men of violence." It beggars belief that further military intervention by the west in Iraq is now being considered. Yet the yearning to intervene, to bomb someone even if just to "send a message," shows how thin is the veneer of sanity cloaking great power aggression.

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How glorious it must seem to certain politicians to somehow turn 10 years of disaster in Iraq into a final victory.

That is why the causes and effects of 2003 must be nailed to the wall, time and again. Trillions of dollars were spent and tens of thousands of people died, for no good reason then and no good reason now. It was a total disgrace.

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Meanwhile we condemn the Isis militants for committing war crimes by executing Iraqi soldiers in cold blood with AK47s, and then we discuss executing them in cold blood with drone bombs. A former US general even explains that the drones will need "execution-level intelligence" to work. Quite so. - FTA

No joke....... Drones are a form of execution...

#1 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-06-18 06:07 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

we condemn the Isis militants for committing war crimes by executing Iraqi soldiers in cold blood with AK47s, and then we discuss executing them in cold blood with drone bombs.

That's just the nature of the beast.
The Mujhadeen were freedom fighters when fighting the USSR.
The Mujhadeen are terrorists when fighting USA.
Any questions?

#2 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-18 06:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

When Congress voted to invade-occupy Iraq, 3 of the 4 Congressman from Rhode Island voted ..NO (including a West Point Graduate and former Army Ranger) If congress had voted 75% NO as the Rhode Island delegation did, we would not be reading sad column.

Sammy in anti-war Rhode Island ..and pro-war Arizona

Thanks for posting this RCADE

#3 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-06-18 06:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

The same mentality persists.

Removed a dicatar from Iraq and gave the people the freedom to be beheaded and carbombed on a daily basis.

The same can be said about Libya.

EU and this administration tried to do the same in Syria.

Why didnt we NoFlyZone Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE when they cracked down on their Arab Spring protestors?

#4 | Posted by aescal at 2014-06-18 06:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

It won't be long till either the Israelis or the Saudis tell us which country they need us to invade so their people don't have to worry or get their hands bloody.

Weeeee.

#5 | Posted by 88120rob at 2014-06-18 07:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Obama is faaaar better as a CAC than W.

That being said I'm ready to protest in the street if he puts boots on the ground.

#6 | Posted by Tor at 2014-06-18 07:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

"That being said I'm ready to protest in the street if he puts boots on the ground."

I completely agree.

#7 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-18 07:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them. Taking care always to keep ourselves, by suitable establishments, on a respectable defensive posture, we may safely trust to temporary alliances for extraordinary emergencies.

42 Harmony, liberal intercourse with all nations, are recommended by policy, humanity, and interest. But even our commercial policy should hold an equal and impartial hand; neither seeking nor granting exclusive favors or preferences; consulting the natural course of things; diffusing and diversifying by gentle means the streams of commerce, but forcing nothing; establishing, with powers so disposed, in order to give trade a stable course, to define the rights of our merchants, and to enable the government to support them, conventional rules of intercourse, the best that present circumstances and mutual opinion will permit, but temporary, and liable to be from time to time abandoned or varied, as experience and circumstances shall dictate; constantly keeping in view, that it is folly in one nation to look for disinterested favors from another; that it must pay with a portion of its independence for whatever it may accept under that character; that, by such acceptance, it may place itself in the condition of having given equivalents for nominal favors, and yet of being reproached with ingratitude for not giving more.

There can be no greater error than to expect or calculate upon real favors from nation to nation. It is an illusion, which experience must cure, which a just pride ought to discard.

Trade, yes. Allies, no. Let other nations resolve their neighbor's problem. Nonintervention, not isolation, open for trade, not arms or protection.

#8 | Posted by Petrous at 2014-06-18 07:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Meanwhile we condemn the Isis militants for committing war crimes by executing Iraqi soldiers in cold blood with AK47s, and then we discuss executing them in cold blood with drone bombs. A former US general even explains that the drones will need "execution-level intelligence" to work. Quite so. - FTA
No joke....... Drones are a form of execution...

#1 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2014-06-18 06:07 PM | REPLY | FLAG:YOU'RE RIGHT

I felt that same when when we fist invaded Iraq and while they were televising it . Dr. Bob Arnot was an embedded reporter. He described what happened when one of the Marine sharp shooters took out and Iraqi soldier by shooting him in the head. He shouted OMG his head exploded thats was fantastic! Dr.Bob loved talking up the marines. Yeah the republiclown made for TV war celebrating the decapitation of an Iraqi soldier who was killed defending his country from an invading force. The Iraqi soldier wasn't even al Qaeda or an insurgent. He was a soldier defending his country knowing full well he was out gunned.

Now Obama is going out to kill the branch of al Qaeda inserted into the country by preznit Bush and you wanna get all sanctimonious about it.

Seriously grow a brain! War is a form of execution. Everyone who puts up a fight is subject to execution. Everyone who doesn't surrender get executed. The only difference between our soldiers and theirs are the odds of survival. For the time being anyways. Now we have drones and the crazies that fly them.

#9 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-06-19 12:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

They'll have drones soon,People these guys maybe crazy zeolots but they're not stupid

#10 | Posted by bruceaz at 2014-06-19 12:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

The war, regardless of your opinion of it, was won. Obama lost it from the instant he gave time table of pulling out.
It was a noble cause, ridding the world of someone who most of you forget was a sadistic, murdering killer who had two sons who were even worse and I still support going in and removing sadaam hussein. It was after that mission was accomplished that went sour and YES, THAT PART WENT JUST THE WAY SOME OF YOU PREDICTED !!! I still believe that you go to war to win...and that means kill people and blow things up. Anything short of that and things fall apart. It happened in NAM and it's happened here.
So keep on blaming anyone and everyone but that doesn't make a bit of difference. I actually have some compassion for the liar in the white house because he's in a tight spot. Of course, it's a spot he got himself into when it didn't have to be this way.
The problem now is KNOWING that they have more means than ever before to wage their war on us...that's the war that many here still don't think we're in....but will SCREAM about "W" if another attack originates in country, whatever that country looks like in a year or so. Personally I would not be sad if it were a parking lot real soon.
And when some of you write a reply, please remember...I don't care one bit if you disagree or not.

#11 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-06-19 01:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

PS...

it's actually good to read some of you who I wouldn't think so...are actually looking at..'now what do we do"....

#12 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-06-19 01:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

Also formerly known as Bush lover 2,Guess you're not famialier with the saying"We one all the battles but lost the. war"....one is won,damm I wish I was young enough to be able to edit this smart telegraph

#13 | Posted by bruceaz at 2014-06-19 01:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

.... "The media drive them on, demanding resolution and firmness, always professing a belief in the efficacy of air power and the need to "deter the men of violence."

**** That's TOTAL B.S. Mr.Jenkins! Obama and his Zionist/CorpoRat Cronies Own & Run all of the Media which works exclusively as a PROPAGANDA Outlet and Broadcaster for them and their Greedy Fascist Agenda! Furthermore all the violence that is now happening in Iraq,Syria and the Middle East has been carefully ORCHESTRATED & FUNDED by Obama and his Criminal OIL Cartel! The Tools they use to gain their Power and Wealth are Destabilization and Anarchy!

#14 | Posted by AntiCadillac at 2014-06-19 02:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

The war, regardless of your opinion of it, was won. Obama lost it from the instant he gave time table of pulling out.

Followed by

I still support going in and removing sadaam hussein. It was after that mission was accomplished that went sour
#11 | Posted by afkabl2

This just in: Obama got elected about FIVE YEARS after "Mission Accomplished."

#15 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 02:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

So, yeah, Iraq warmongers are still insane. About the only one here who's come to his senses might be JeffJ. The rest of you are too proud to admit how monumentally stupid you were. I can't say I blame you.

#16 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 02:59 AM | Reply | Flag:

I couldn't agree more. That's why I'm voting Hillary in 2016. Enough of the insane Iraq warmongers!

#17 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2014-06-19 08:30 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"The war, regardless of your opinion of it, was won. Obama lost it from the instant he gave time table of pulling out. "

Only BUSHLOVER would even think such a stupid thing. Open your eyes if you have the guts, they war you claim was won is now spinning out of control because your leaders ignored the most basic concepts about the people who live in that region. I watched Cheney, yesterday on an old video, claiming that Sunni and Shia had no history of violence between them. That laughable ------ ought to be dropped off in Iraq right between the Sunnis and Shia, let him enjoy the peace that exists between them.
All of you were told, over and over, that this would happen.
Some of us never forgot the lessons we all should have learned from Vietnam. It's easy to invade and occupy, it is not easy to ever leave unless you are willing to leave a power vacuum which is exactly what happened in Vietnam and now Iraq too, just as predicted. Hundreds of thousands are dead today because you, not I, listened to Bush/Cheney.
Good going BUSHLOVER.

#18 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-19 08:59 AM | Reply | Flag:

"The war, regardless of your opinion of it, was won"

stupid post of the year nominee.

i generally rag on both sides of the aisle, but no one, and i mean NO ONE does stupid quite like the -------- of the gop...

#19 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-06-19 09:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

Yes, Saddam Hussein was no sweetie pie. But he was a check on Iran. The unintended consequence of invading Iraq and putting the Shias in charge under Malaki, is now Iran is the Middle East Superpower. This has thrown the USA, Saudi Arabia and Israel into a tizzy, making their worst enemy ISIS, their new buddies.

Dear rightie tighties, now do you get it? Do you understand just how stupid the invasion was in the first place? As if this was not a predictable outcome. Our leaders never seem to learn. They make the same mistakes over and over again, ruining the lives of millions of people for no good reason. Few have done more damage to the innocent than the USA, all in the alleged name of Democracy. Where is that Democracy? We don't even have it at home. While making up fairy tales we have joined the worst players in the last century: Hitler, Stalin, PolPot.....Mao in destroying the lives of innocent human beings.

#20 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-06-19 09:47 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Obama lost it from the instant he gave time table of pulling out. "

OMG so dumb.

Bush signed the pullout order. Your party made that perfectly clear when the left leaning side of the MSM tried to give Obama the credit for it.

Thanks busloverkababble.

#21 | Posted by klifferd at 2014-06-19 09:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

i guess the iraqi war would be considered a "win" if a referendum was held and the word "win" was re-defined to mean "to lose completely and utterly"

legal loopholes and insensible semantics rule the world nowadays, not actual facts.

#22 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-06-19 09:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

anyway, american hubris bubbles to the top and overflows every generation and results in some sort of desperation that it the country is growing weak or headed in the wrong direction and that in turn morphs into a queer ideological fervor which invariably ends up entrapping the country in yet another immoral and impractical military adventure.

i think it goes much deeper than the cheneys and the bushes of the world. we are brought up to insist, by the point of the pen/knuckle of the fist/point of the sword/end of the gun/joystick of the drone, that our culture is absolutely 100% the right culture, and even if we "sometimes make mistakes" we are, in the past, now, and in the future-- in all circumstances, the best.

there is something symptomatic of our predicament that lies at the core of our very being. when i hear a liberal democrat call out a conservative republican or vice-versa, i see through the sweaty wrestling match of partisan politics and the jockeying for position on the grand chessboard and note the underlying sameness in their positions.

the current resurgence of islam presents a mirror image to that. islam too falls into the same trap, and that is why we fear it so much, because in reality, it shows us, our selfish desires and our shortcomings, in perhaps a more direct and brutal state, our true natures and intentions. islam is our william wilson.

william wilson?

william wilson is a short story by edgar allan poe and one of the most profound pieces of literature i have ever read. to me it encapsulates what it is to be american, and is written by one of the best american authors ever.

the manipulative, secretive and dishonest william wilson is america, but his open, idealized and wise doppleganger, who follows him around, is also america.

i highly recommend it-- one can read the story in about an hour. but i guarantee that one can think about it and its layers of meaning for another 400.

america is in the midst of murdering herself. death by a thousand cuts. the iraqi war being only another, recent cut.

"You have conquered, and I yield. Yet, henceforward art thou also dead -- dead to the World, to Heaven and to Hope! In me didst thou exist -- and, in my death, see by this image, which is thine own, how utterly thou hast murdered thyself."

www.online-literature.com

#23 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-06-19 10:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

I believe it was 4 Americans killed in Benghazi so we have had endless investigations about it, thousands of Americans were killed due to the Iraq invasion and occupation....where are the investigations....also there can be no doubt that our news media sold this war to America....in light of the deaths and the trillions of dollars spent on the biggest mistake in foreign policy in the history of the nation...isn't it time we examine how our air waves are abused and how they are used to the detriment of our nation? Shouldn't we also include cable news since it has been used as a propaganda channel to sell a freaking war?
What crime would be large enough, tragic enough to demand real investigation into how our country went so far off the tracks?
I hope Americans realize that if we did not have such a powerful military our country's leaders would be on trial for crimes against humanity right now. Any lesser nation's leaders would face the death penalty.

#24 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-19 10:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Any lesser nation's leaders would face the death penalty."

ah, the importance of that statement!

a 'lesser nation' in our eyes is just that-- a lesser nation. when a despot is killed or removed, it really is the despot and his cult of personality who dies, but the little nation, being thoroughly humbled, moves on through history, effecting very little afterwards, at least until the next despot comes round...

but america is considered "exceptional" and is much much bigger than her leaders, and will, for the foreseeable future, continue to profoundly effect the world and its goings-on. and as a result, when her leaders do something execution-worthy, it does not ultimately fall upon their necks-- indeed it may never, at least as long as they live and build their post-presidential libraries and other form of self-aggrandizement, but it WILL eventually fall upon the neck of america herself.

america is currently the recipient of the death sentence being slowly and methodically carried out-- condemned to die slowly for the idiocy and evil of the bush administration and of the evil actions of the predecessors. that's all there is too it. the individual leaders might go "unpunished" but the country they claimed to have loved is now paying for it.

i expect, in my lifetime, if i am so unlucky to live to 100, to pick up a history book and inside that book will be a chapter called "the death of america" and i fully expect, if alzheimers does not reduce me back to a newborn, to recognize some of the faces and names pressed upon the nefarious pages of that sad chapter as being those same faces and names that, as a lad, i watched so naively on my pre-pubescent television screen, push for the invasion of iraq.

#25 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-06-19 10:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

"america is currently the recipient of the death sentence being slowly and methodically carried out-- condemned to die slowly for the idiocy and evil of the bush administration and of the evil actions of the predecessors."

Germany, Japan, Russia all faced the death penalty as nations yet arose from the dead and became relatively prosperous nations. German and Japan seem to have learned valuable lessons in the process, Russia not so much. America could learn from our mistakes but not as long as we perceive freedom of the press and freedom of the air waves to be things that can be bought, owned and used to propagandize the American people into wars for profits, oil, or whatever other sick reason we actually invaded Iraq.

#26 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-19 10:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

Germany, Japan, Russia all faced the death penalty as nations yet arose from the dead and became relatively prosperous nations."

true, but germany and japan were run over for many years of their existence. then they made one mistake. granted, their mistake was huge, but i don't ever remember an institutionalized form of german exceptionalism or japanese exceptionalism both preceding and outliving their mistakes, and propagating the mistake through subsequent mistakes. you'd think we would have learned after the mexican war and "manifest destiny". even chronic underachiever ulysses s grant understood that this sort of ideology would be dangerous to america in the future.

russia is closer to the american paradigm than either germany and japan. but instead of talking about them i have guacamole that is chillin in the fridge and its a beautiful day so i'm gonna go outside and take a receso...

#27 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-06-19 11:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

When did Russia face the death penalty as a nation? If you mean the end of the USSR that was more like a doctor-assisted suicide. We love to give credit to Reagan but it wouldn't have happened if Gorbachev hadn't wanted it to happen. And now there are hard-liners in the Kremlin whose territorial aspirations lead them to think Gorbachev acted illegally and unwisely...

#28 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-19 01:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ah!.....just leave them Iraq Warmongers alone!!!

They're just tryin' to make some good folding money......

....that's the good ole American way.......

#29 | Posted by saginawmi at 2014-06-19 01:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The war, regardless of your opinion of it, was won."

pure unadulterated AFKbabblecrap.

What is your definition of won? On what day was the war won?

The war was lost on the very day we attacked. The only thing holding Iraq together and Al-Qaeda out was Saddam. We were never willing to do what needed to be done there and it wasn't our place to do it anyway.

Bush's Error will haunt us for decades to come.

Our children's children will still be paying the price for it.

#30 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-19 09:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

We were never willing to do what needed to be done there and it wasn't our place to do it anyway.

That's the problem - it wasn't our place to do it.

Why is it, both parties, seem to believe the US has to do it?

I know we don't want to have World War III. But, the argument that we have to keep the world safe to prevent it?

Washington suggested trade. Sure, we'll honor our treaties, but he warned about deals and alliances. We haven't listened.

#31 | Posted by Petrous at 2014-06-19 09:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

"When did Russia face the death penalty as a nation? "

Russia never did but the USSR most certainly did. That's why we call it the Russian Federation today.Putin seems to want to pretend that the ocdupied nations actually liked being occupied.

#32 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-19 10:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

just wanted to remind everyone of some 'more warmongers'....

factreal.wordpress.com

#33 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-06-20 11:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

just wanted to remind everyone of some 'more warmongers'....

factreal.wordpress.com

#33 | Posted by afkabl2

..And isn't it interesting that the republicans only seem to go along with the dems when the dems are wrong..

#34 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-06-20 12:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

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