Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, June 13, 2014

A measles outbreak in Minnesota offers a case study of how the disease is transmitted in the United States today: An unvaccinated person travels abroad, brings measles back and infects vulnerable people -- including children who are unprotected because their parents chose not to vaccinate them. That's the conclusion of a report published online June 9 in Pediatrics that details the 2011 outbreak that sickened 19 children and two adults in the state.

Advertisement

Liberal Blog Advertising Network

Menu

Advertisement

Subscriptions

Author Info

rcade

 

Advertisement

MORE STORIES

 

Advertisement

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Ding! Ding! Ding! And we almost have a winner due to their parents being Ding Dongs!

At least nobody died. If the kid would have died their parents wouldn't have even been Darwin Award winners because they would still be able to procreate.

Yes people there is a small chance of side effects to all vaccines. What's worse is the chance yours and all other kids will get sick, be maimed and/or die due to some of these vile diseases.

#1 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2014-06-13 06:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Non-vaccinators are a public health hazard, and should be treated as such.

#2 | Posted by censored at 2014-06-13 06:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

They should be charged with attempted murder.

#3 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-13 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

They should be charged with attempted murder.
#3 | Posted by BruceBanner

That's a little extreme. A special colony for them might be more appropriate. Than they could trade germs all they want. Texas might be appropriate.

#4 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2014-06-13 06:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hey this was measles, could have been even worse diseases that we vaccinate against. Diptheria anyone? Whooping cough? I've never seen those illnesses but my mother described how the children that had them suffered before they died. Needless to say, she kept us kids current on our vaccinations though in those days measles and mumps were common childhood illnesses we all pretty much went through.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-13 07:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

I looked HEAVILIY into vaccinations back when the Anthrax Vaccine was under the microscope (I was the guy briefing troops on Chem/Bio survival). Read up on it, talked to the doctors on base, read more, talked more, triple checked my info, etc.

1:
ALL vaccines carry risk. SOMEONE is going to have a 'reaction'. Some vaccines are 'harsher' than others (The smallpox one seems to be one of the 'worst', although it is not even REMOTELY close to being a 'simple' linear good - bad scale....).

2:
Vaccines achieve more than just INDIVIDUAL immunity. Depending how a disease is spread, you can achieve 'herd immunity', and in same cases even wipe a disease out (Diseases can only be wiped out if EVERYTHING they can infect is vaccinated).

3:
Not all vaccines grant immunity. Sometimes it is better described as 'resistance'. With resistance, your CHANCE of getting sick drops, AND, if you do get sick, it WILL be less severe (although can still BE severe, but WILL be 'less'). The anthrax vaccine is one of the 'boosted resistance' vaccines.

4 (key point):
If a 'herd' has sky high 'herd immunity', the risk of encountering the disease drops so low that even tiny 'vaccine risks' become greater for INDIVIDUALS (parasitic safety, letting your neighbors take risk and not taking it yourself. I fully support DENYING such 'parasites' being allowed to do things like go to school without vaccines).
This can lead to 'individuals' ceasing vaccine use. The big problem is that as soon a certain threshold group stops using vaccines THE DISEASE COMES BACK, AND IT IS "THEIR FAULT". ENJOY YOUR DEAD KID, "YOU" KILLED HIM.

5:
As for the Anthrax Vaccine, the claims of it causing some fairly standard reactions (and potential dangerous in bad cases) are valid, but in almost all cases individuals at risk are easily spotted by well trained medical personal (Note, I said "almost all", not "all". Risk is 'near zero', not 'zero').
As for the 'badly made' vaccinations issue, that one is mixed. It is PROVABLE that there were some quality control issues. HOWEVER, evidence for vaccine actually causing 'gulf war syndrome' just don't stand up. I've not read anything that lead me to believe the quality control issues actually resulted in anyone ill. (I did, however, find a theory that does seem to hold water better than most, see #6).

#6
Gulf War Syndrome (GWS)
I am 100% convinced that GWS is not just 'one thing', and I've been saying this since shortly after Gulf war One. Having said that, the 'DEET and permethrin' combo seems to stand up as PART of the issue. My impression is that when DEET and permethrin were in use, AND COMBINED WITH other factors, a 'probably cause' of SOME GWS is evident. For example, we bombed the hell out of Saddams supply points, and we pretty much know we hit some chemical weapon supply points, thereby releasing agent (tend to happen when you drop bombs on a chem weapon supply point). There is also good evidence some of folks got some 'trace' chemical weapons exposure (should be a non-issue, 'normally'). I have real suspicion about those trace exposures when combined with DEET and permethrin. Furthermore, the "Nerve Agent Pre-Treatment Tablets" further complicate the issue.
Any one or even two of these things does not seem to hold water as 'cause', but together hold 'better'. (a lot better than the vaccine theories anyway, although I will freely admit that I can't absolutely rule them out....).

I've lightly followed the GWS new over the last decade. There seems to a consensus now that its not just one thing (both on there being completely different 'types' of GWS, and at least some of them being caused a 'cocktail' of causes).

#6 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-06-13 08:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

I bet the unvaccinated kid wasn't autistic.

#7 | Posted by visitor_ at 2014-06-13 10:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

I bet the unvaccinated kid wasn't autistic.

Despite being born to retarded parents.

#8 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-13 11:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

I bet the unvaccinated kid wasn't autistic.

Why did you feel the need to point out the obvious?

#9 | Posted by jpw at 2014-06-14 12:59 AM | Reply | Flag:

#6 | Posted by USAF242

Nice post.

I'm not up to date on the GWS stuff as I stopped following the argument that vaccines caused it several years back. At that time the claim was it was the experimental adjuvants (squalene specifically IIRC) causing it. It's no surprise to me if the goal posts have moved.

#10 | Posted by jpw at 2014-06-14 01:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

Well I'm old enough to have had measles,rubella ,chicken pox.Ask me about shingles,great fun,I get mine on my forehead so everyone can enjoy it,lol.We've all seen the commercials,every wonder drug that will save you from whatever has a -------- of possible side effects. Vaccines are no different.

#11 | Posted by bruceaz at 2014-06-14 01:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

Possibly the parents of these 'kids' remembered the 1976 swine flu outbreak and the VERY negative side affects: en.wikipedia.org

Scary as I was in the Air Force at that time and even thought the dangerous possible side affects were already public knowledge I had no choice and was required to receive it as it was mandatory. Not a good thing for those who had the disastrous reaction to the shots.

Sucks when the government is to total control of your life and you are required to take something even if you may be one of the unlucky ones in the end. Guess some here will understand in the not too distance future when we end up with single payer.

#12 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-06-14 01:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

every wonder drug that will save you from whatever has a -------- of possible side effects. Vaccines are no different.

Actually, I've yet to hear of a vaccine causing impotence, ---- leakage or limbs falling off (only after four hours of being stiff, of course).

Vaccine are far safer than many drugs on the market and even the common side effects are mild and nothing more than temporary discomfort.

#13 | Posted by jpw at 2014-06-14 01:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

I won't say the autism link can't have ANY truth to it, but I'll say that Corky and Danni voting a straight republican ticket is more likely.

If there is a shred of truth, it WILL be a trivial percentage.

There is a human cost to ALL medicine. ALL OF IT. Not just vaccines.

There is NO medicine that does not HARM, on some level, and some more than others (which is a big part of the reason that some require prescriptions....).

ALL, I repeat "ALL", medicines should be judged on the balance of their HARM and HELPFULNESS. There WILL be both.

The idea that even the tiniest percentage of 'harm' renders a medicine invalid is stupid. PRESSING that idea is EVIL.

#14 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-06-14 02:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

USAF242 - Thanks for all the info, it has answered some lingering questions I had about vaccines. Particularly point #4, I never knew that, but now it seems painfully obvious.

#15 | Posted by danv at 2014-06-14 06:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

There is risk in every thing we do. At some point we have to weigh the risk with the benefits. Some children will suffer or die from inoculations, many more will die from what we used to fear but now view with contempt. Those old illnesses are still in existence, and they kill people. They scar and cripple people. I remember living indoors for a whole summer because of a polio outbreak- it IS scary, way more than a shot.

#16 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-06-14 07:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

I guess we'll have to start quarantining unvaccinated folks after they travel abroad. Get your shots, dummies.

#17 | Posted by morris at 2014-06-14 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

""Vaccines cause mental retardation"
"" The illness of homosexuality can be cured"
~ Republican scientist Michele Bachman

Proud 1/2 owner of the Bush admin funded "Pray away the gay clinic"

#18 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-06-14 07:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Herd immunity doesn't mean individuals are immune. It means enough of the herd is immune that when an individual gets sick, they won't make enough contacts with the non-immune for an epidemic to occur. The disease will run its course before it can find a new host.

This whole fact of having to rely on others, that we're all in this together, that no man is an island, seems to be the ideological chasm between the right-wing and their acceptance of the value proposition of universal coverage.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-14 07:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

I do have one slight difference from Snoofy's position:

If a population responsibly vaccinates its children, they can REASONABLY expect those who want to send children to the same schools to ALSO vaccinate, and share the same risk.

Which in no way means everyone has to vaccinate.

My preferred option is let individual schools choose, and then parents can select.

I don't support government forcing vaccinations, but the idea of letting fools suffer alone from SELF-INFLICTED stupidity appeals....

And as for medicine in general:
ALL, I repeat "ALL", medicines should be judged on the balance of their HARM and HELPFULNESS. There WILL be both.
The idea that even the tiniest percentage of 'harm' renders a medicine invalid is stupid. PRESSING that idea is EVIL.

#20 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-06-14 08:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'd seriously like to see the statistics relating to autism among the non-vaccinating community.

#21 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-14 09:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

An expansion of my #6 comments:

Full disclosure: I got my information from MANY military medical doctors, and few non-military doctors. I also reviewed written sources for military medicine, and not just little pamphlets either. But I do not have formal medical training.

I even went so far as to arrange actual appointments with military doctors just to talk on the subject (and their time is at a premium).

My 'intent' with my effort was NOT, in ANYWAY, to become medically trained to treat. (I did ask to be trained to give injections so I could teach use of the atropine/2PAM injectors better, but they turned me down on that. But they did review my teaching of it, so just about as good as actually getting the training. Eventually those injectors got moved from Chem/Bio training to Self-Aid abd Buddy Care training, and I've always wondered if my persistent demand for more 'train the trainer' training might have been part of the cause of that.....).

My 'intent' with my effort was to improve my briefings. I'd take what the Doc would tell me, and take the stuff I read, and translate it to 'layman's terms' and run it by the doctors again.

So what I have is SUPERB, Off the damn charts, 'layman's knowledge' (so much so I've had medical personnel ask ME to explain something at times).

I never bothered to memorizing exactly what anthrax does on a cellular level. But I'm second to none on PRACTICAL knowledge of the threat (BOTH potentially devastating, AND for practical purposes surprisingly low, AT the same time...). And I'm BETTER than doctors for explaining it non-doctors.

As for vaccines, to add to #6:
... (Call this point #7) Not all vaccines 'make the grade'. When you hear about vaccines 'in development', they are NOT just looking at effective boosting of immunity. Safety IS a factor, and people DO get hurt. There IS risk. The question is balance.
If you are concerned, RESERACH the individual vaccines. If you are a parent and are concerned, get the list of the EXACT vaccines and look em up, and NOT just on 'vaccines-bad' sites.

Two GOOD sites for real information:
vaers.hhs.gov
www.cdc.gov

There is more for anyone who looks.
I dug through the VAERS data as one of my sources years ago (it might have even been called something else at the time, its been a while), but it was data on adverse reactions, by vaccine. Good stuff for what I was briefing. Big-non-shocker: Some vaccines are about as gentle as a medicine can be, and some are harsh, who'd of thunk it?

The VAERS data is one reason I've ALWAYS been strongly against vaccinating the U.S. population against smallpox, but strongly support having 300million(ish) vaccines on-hand. (With no smallpox in the population, we'd be suffering a 100% chance of several serious reactions every year, against ZERO disease prevention. If smallpox DID comeback, the only people who would suffer full 'unvaccinated' effect would be the very first few to get spotable symptoms (This is because even if you are INFECTED, if you get vaccinated a few days prior to full blown symptoms, you get some good protection. There is more too, but I'm sick of typing....)).

#22 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-06-14 09:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

I had a grandmother who had polio when she was a child, I'm no expert on vaccines but I'm sort of glad I didn't have to worry that my kids would have to suffer with that horrible disease. Not trying to discount your posts USAF242 but I do feel that my kids did benefit from vaccines that prevented them from contracting horrible diseases. I want my grandchildren to carry on the tradition and they are. So far, no kids who are autistic so the anti-vaccine crowd is going to have to show me better evidence before I agree to have my grandkids going unprotected by vaccines.

#23 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-14 09:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Danni, I am rabidly pro-vaccination.

But I'm also rabidly pro-free will, even when that free will is stupid.

Having said that, I won't say there should be no limits on free will, the "No right to shout 'fire' in a crowded theater" example being a good classic case.

#24 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-06-15 12:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

Danni, I am rabidly pro-vaccination.

But I'm also rabidly pro-free will, even when that free will is stupid.

When someone's "free will" is to do something that harms the community, there should be a way to hold them accountable for their actions. We don't have such a stick with which to beat the vaccine deniers. The best we can hope for is one of their own kids dies, and nobody wants that.

#25 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-15 12:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

... ,every wonder drug that will save you from whatever has a -------- of possible side effects. Vaccines are no different.

This is patently false. The potential side effects of vaccines are comparatively minor. It's an enormously bad decision to choose the risks of being unvaccinated over the risks of a vaccine, unless you have an underlying condition that makes it more dangerous for you.

#26 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-16 10:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

Advertisement

Post a comment

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2014 World Readable

 

Advertisement

Drudge Retort