Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, June 12, 2014

A Republican state House candidate in Indiana wrote on Facebook that poor welfare recipients should be allowed to die. John Johnston, who is challenging Democratic state Rep. Chuck Moseley in the 10th District, wrote, "For almost three generations people, in some cases, have been given handouts. They have been 'enabled' so much that their paradigm in life is simply being given the stuff of life, however meager. What you see is a setting for a life of misery is life to them nevertheless. No one has the guts to just let them wither and die. No one who wants votes is willing to call a spade a spade. As long as the Dems can get their votes the enabling will continue. The Republicans need their votes and dare not cut the fiscal tether."

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No one has the guts to just let them wither and die.

Posted by tfdnihilist at 07:03 AM | 0 COMMENTS | permalink | Comment on This Entry |

Is this guy a Christian? His Bible apparently hass a chapter on Jesus I don't know about.

#1 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 07:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

#2 Whose responsibility is it to keep them alive? Yours? Mine? Ours? The answer is "none of the above". It's THEIR responsibility to provide for themselves. The United States of America is not a day care, yet some treat it as America exists only to feed, clothe and entertain them in exchange for their obedience.

#2 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-06-12 07:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

#1 That is the fauxtian mantra... "let them die".

Very Christ like.

#3 | Posted by 726 at 2014-06-12 08:04 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#2 Whose responsibility is it to keep them alive?

#2 | Posted by MUSTANG

Well, Dear MUSTANG. Of course its not your responsibility to keep them alive. Not your responsibility to haul their dead bodies out of the streets, either.

My advice? Open another beer, get drunk, and really hope you're right when you think there is no afterlife.

#4 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 08:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

"#2 Whose responsibility is it to keep them alive? Yours? Mine? Ours? The answer is "none of the above". It's THEIR responsibility to provide for themselves."

Do you think people just starve quietly without causing trouble?

#5 | Posted by Sully at 2014-06-12 09:07 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 5

J#2 Whose responsibility is it to keep them alive?

"Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others."

"But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?"

#6 | Posted by 726 at 2014-06-12 09:10 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

4 | Posted by Zed

Well at least Mustang is open about being against Christ teaching about caring for the poor unlike most of the repubs here who lie about it.
But still their is obviously something lacking in Mustangs soul and conscious.
a incomplete human

#7 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2014-06-12 09:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

hope you're right when you think there is no afterlife.

#4 | Posted by Zed

I don't believe any of your fairy tales, yet I know it's wrong to let folks die in the streets.
Hell, even from a practical viewpoint, it makes more sense to have a sedate, docile poor class, then a hungry, desperate one.

#8 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-06-12 09:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

I thought we had a separation of church and state. I don't think you that are thumping your bibles on this want to apply it to government in general.

#9 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-06-12 09:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

Whose responsibility is it to keep them alive?

Let's say you're in charge, and you decide to eliminate the social safety net entirely. Extremely poor people and the elderly suffer starvation. Poor children are undernourished, their developing brains suffer and they never are properly educated.

These things don't happen in a vacuum. They have costs that will affect everybody.

If you like living in a stable and prosperous society, part of the cost is providing at least some support for the hungry and destitute. It's not just compassion. It's common sense.

#10 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 09:49 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 8

I know it's wrong to let folks die in the streets.

#8 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014

You know its wrong because you were told and believed. Left to your own devices, who knows what you would have come up with? We have entire journals of anthropology to suggest what.

#11 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 09:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

The apple does not fall far from the tree. When States, counties and cities conspire to provide the best schools, services and infrastructure for one neighborhood while denying the same for the next the results speak for themselves. These same conspirators then blame the victims they targeted. Its disgusting and can take a generation or two to fix, but only with Federal intervention. Under the current majority in SCOTUS a fix is not going to happen.

#12 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-06-12 09:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

I thought we had a separation of church and state.

#9 | Posted by Dalton at 2014

I believe in such separation. I also believe in having faith inform your political positions.

Call it Bible-thumping if you want. Sometimes it's fine to give the Bible credit, and thank God most people (atheist or not) are informed by the Christian sensibility and not some competitor.

#13 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 09:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

So Zed I'm asking if you think biblical belief should apply to late term abortions? It's a simple yes or no answer.

#14 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-06-12 09:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

#2 Whose responsibility is it to keep them alive? Yours? Mine? Ours? The answer is "none of the above". It's THEIR responsibility to provide for themselves. The United States of America is not a day care.
#2 | POSTED BY MUSTANG

Yeah, especially those 36% of impoverished in the USA who are children. Let's get rid of those pesky child labor laws that are keeping those 5 years from earning their keep. Am I right, Mustang?

#15 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2014-06-12 09:55 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 4

So Zed I'm asking if you think biblical belief should apply to late term abortions? It's a simple yes or no answer.

#14 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-06-12 09:53 AM | Reply

I'd permit late-term abortions to save the life of the mother. Its not a simple issue, no matter how much forced choice you try to put into the question.

#16 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 09:57 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

#16 So if a doctor declares a mother is in labor and her blood pressure goes up you would be ok with [...]? I mean the mothers life is in danger.

#17 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-06-12 10:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

Zed what do you think Jesus would say?

#18 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-06-12 10:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

#17 | Posted by Dalton

That's just pure stupid.

.

#19 | Posted by Dave at 2014-06-12 10:07 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

You know its wrong because yak yak...

#11 | Posted by Zed

No, I know it's wrong because society runs better when people are happy. It's that simple. Well fed, healthy, educated people make better citizens of a secular state. I don't understand why that is so hard for folks to see. We can spend the money now and get doctors, or wait for criminals and spend the money on prisons and fences.
Your bearded sky daddy has nothing to do with it.

#20 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-06-12 10:11 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Zed what do you think Jesus would say?

#18 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-06-12 10:04

He'd say that its a good thing the mother lived. Um, you have a different opinion?

#21 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 10:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

I know it's wrong because society runs better when people are happy.

#20 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014

Its something else you were told. You are a goldfish and, had you been kept in a pagan Roman aquarium, your common sense reasoning would have been entirely different.

#22 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 10:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

That's ridiculous. You just keep believing that Christians were the first society who ever thought murder was bad and things would run better if everyone didn't steal from each other.
Have a nice day...

#23 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-06-12 10:16 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

These things don't happen in a vacuum. They have costs that will affect everybody.

If you like living in a stable and prosperous society, part of the cost is providing at least some support for the hungry and destitute. It's not just compassion. It's common sense.

#10 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 09:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

Basically what Mosely is saying is that he wouldn't mind seeing the US become a third world country.

#24 | Posted by Sully at 2014-06-12 10:19 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

You just keep believing that Christians were the first society who ever thought murder was bad and things would run better if everyone didn't steal from each other.

#23 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-06

You no more got your schooling from those "first societies" then I did.

Not everyone has thought murder is bad. This continues in our life time.

#25 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 10:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

Without a doubt, there is a practical side to having a society made up of healthy, educated, productive citizens. But there's also the issue of empathy. I'm not religious, but I feel a moral imperative to help others. Life is hard. Where possible I'd like to make it less hard for fellow travelers. It's really that simple for me.

I find it sad that this politician, and for that matter, Mustang, appear to lack such basic empathy. Is that what conservatism means these days?

#26 | Posted by cbob at 2014-06-12 10:21 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Have a nice day...

#23 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014

I'm pretty sure I will. Thank God.

#27 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 10:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

"No one ...is willing to call a spade a spade."

That's racist.

#28 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-06-12 10:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

well, at least this guy just outright says it like it is....from his perspective.

let the voters decide.

this guy makes the GOP look bad. Obviously he doesn't speak for the GOP but the cheerleaders want to believe he does....because they're cheerleaders.

#29 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 10:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

Your bearded sky daddy has nothing to do with it.

#20 | Posted by TFDNihilist

God has a beard? According to Faux News that makes him Mooslim terrorist.

#2 Whose responsibility is it to keep them alive?

The Party of Responsibility, one again, is only Responsible to the 1% not to the Riff Raff.

#30 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 10:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

once again...

#31 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 10:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

"The Party of Responsibility, one again..."

see what I mean?

#32 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 10:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah, especially those 36% of impoverished in the USA who are children.
#15 | POSTED BY JOHNNY_HOTSAUCE AT 2014-06-12 09:55 AM | FLAG:

You know, no one has suggested a very simple solution to the poor child problem we have in the US. Here's the proposal; it's quite modest:

andromeda.rutgers.edu

#33 | Posted by bartimus at 2014-06-12 10:41 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 4

see what I mean?

#32 | Posted by eberly

Being against feeding the poor is an underlying theme of the GOP. But, this one guy stepped over the line and doesn't represent the GOP?

Sure...right.

House GOP Wants School Lunch Program To Feed Only 'Rural' Kids

How House Republicans Are Preaching A False Gospel About Food Stamps

House Republicans to poor city kids: No summer lunches for you

Republicans Take Cruelty to a New Level By Denying Hungry Children Food

Republicans Must Believe that Jesus Hates Hungry, Poor People and has a Deep-Seated Love for the Rich

#34 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 10:48 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I thought we had a separation of church and state. I don't think you that are thumping your bibles on this want to apply it to government in general.

#9 | POSTED BY DALTON AT 2014-06-12 09:47 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Well the wing dings continually want the seperation of church and state torn down when it suits their agenda, but conveniently remember that when it doesn't.

If they want to believe that the nation was founded on Christian principles, you cannot pick and choose which Christian principles to apply and ignore.

Not a shock though. They do that with the Bible and the Constitution on a regular basis.

#35 | Posted by 726 at 2014-06-12 10:54 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 4

#34 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 10:48 AM | Reply | Flag: RAH RAH RAH SIS BOOM BAH!!!!

#36 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 10:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

#34 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 10:48 AM | Reply | Flag: RAH RAH RAH SIS BOOM BAH!!!!

#36 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 10:56 AMFlag: Hates that Republican Hypocrisy shoved in his face!!!!

#37 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 10:58 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Obviously he doesn't speak for the GOP but the cheerleaders want to believe he does....because they're cheerleaders.

#29 | Posted by eberly

sojo.net

Meet the Republicans Who Voted to Slash $40 Billion from the Food Stamps Program

#38 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 11:01 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

As I have stated....

Liberals love the idea of evolution, but cringe at its application.

While I don't agree with the candidates directness, someone has to say it.

Here is the thing, if we don't start letting go of enabling some now, we will all be let down in the future.

#39 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-06-12 11:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

Liberals love the idea of evolution, but cringe at its application.

Human evolution took place on a scale of millions of years. To suggest that poor people going hungry and poor kids being undereducated is "evolution" demonstrates zero understanding of the concept.

#41 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 11:10 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 5

Here is the thing, if we don't start letting go of enabling some now, we will all be let down in the future.
#39 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2014-06-12 11:02 AM | FLAG:

Starve a few now so we don't have to feed a few later?

You don't think a percentage of people starving would be detrimental to society in general and a de-stabilizing influence?

People hungry enough will take what they need by force.

#42 | Posted by 726 at 2014-06-12 11:10 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

People hungry enough will take what they need by force.

Yes, they will. The let-them-die wing of the Republican Party should study history.

#43 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 11:15 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

He didn't command that we let them wither and die. He stated that no one has the guts to. His analysis is totally correct. He didn't offer a solution at all. Certainly didn't suggest letting them die.

What he's really saying is compassionate. He's saying you are ruining these people's lives in order to obtain their votes. And he is right.

The theory is that it is human nature to be worthless and do as little as possible as long as your basic needs are met for nothing. When it's institutionalized, it leads to humans who never meet their potential. Deniers of this truth are out of touch with reality. But not surprising that blogging hermits who never step outside would not know this stuff. Hint: it's the #1 reason why Communism doesn't work.

#44 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"But, this one guy stepped over the line and doesn't represent the GOP?"

you're funny.

go join Zed in playroom for some lollipops.

I don't see how either major political party can control statements like this at the State level.

#45 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

If they want to believe that the nation was founded on Christian principles, you cannot pick and choose which Christian principles to apply and ignore.

Christians believe in hard work, and self-reliance. Welfare and charity is for the truly incapable and inept. Nothing is more disgusting than someone sitting on their fat ass and accepting handouts that are meant to save the truly needy. It's the worst kind of theft.

#46 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 11:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

"To suggest that poor people going hungry and poor kids being undereducated is "evolution" demonstrates zero understanding of the concept."

you're correct. This is why this is usually a bunch of bantering from candidates who are trying to stir up votes.

Do we expect this fool who uttered this to accomplish anything like he claims he wants to?

no...of course not. This fool won't even get elected.

But don't tell Donner.....he thinks this guy is going to be president and starve him.

www.fns.usda.gov

Geez....you'd think we've actually starved people....until you read actual data on funding.

#47 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Nothing is more disgusting than someone sitting on their fat ass and accepting handouts that are meant to save the truly needy. It's the worst kind of theft."

that's easy to get around. just tell that ------ that he IS the "truly needy" and everything is just fine. let's make that person a "victim", give him the handout and you have a vote you can continue to count on for elections.

But...to be fair....that's the same thing as this fool trying to gin up hatred for the poor by saying what he did.

#48 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

this guy makes the GOP look bad. Obviously he doesn't speak for the GOP but the cheerleaders want to believe he does....because they're cheerleaders.

#29 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2014-06-12 10:35 AM | FLAG:

He is a GOP candidate. Of course he represents his party. Of course his party supports him and believes he will represent the values of the party. Otherwise, he would be dem or independent.

I'll believe your nobody-represents-their-party line when you apply it broadly.

"It's not a spoon."

#49 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-12 11:28 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

This guy was doing great until he got to his 'wither and die' comment.

What a stupid and profoundly offensive thing to say.

Generational welfare has ruined the lives of millions in this country. Pointing that out is a good thing. Getting people off of welfare is a great thing for the self-worth of the former recipient.

#50 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 11:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

Do we expect this fool who uttered this to accomplish anything like he claims he wants to? no...of course not.

That doesn't mean his words don't matter. The Republicans who feel the way he does would gut things like food stamps for poor children and school breakfast programs. They would cut back on aid to people on Social Security disability who cannot work under any circumstance due to age and infirmity.

I think any politician who would say to let Americans "wither and die" should never hold public office.

#51 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Of course, this guy, at the state level, speaks for the entire GOP.

But take a Sheila Jackson Lee quote or a Joe Biden quote and, well....

#52 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Of course he represents his party."

so, if he said aliens are coming tomorrow...he is representing the GOP? Or is it possible a candidate for State office can say something that doesn't represent the party he is running under?

"Of course his party supports him and believes he will represent the values of the party."

still? how much $ has this guy gotten from the GOP? How much do think he'll get now?

"Otherwise, he would be dem or independent."

you realize that political parties can pull support for someone in their own party, right?

#53 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

But...to be fair....that's the same thing as this fool trying to gin up hatred for the poor by saying what he did.

C'mon, do you think he's that dumb? Look at the reaction. 90% jump immediately to the poor's defense, not the other way around.

He's got the guts to speak the truth. The reaction should be animosity toward the enablers, the pols.

He's calling out the low-lifes at the same time. These thieves need to hear it. They need to be called out. But, they do have every excuse, when this handout policy has become institutionalized. Nevertheless, they need to feel bad about it, quit feeling sorry for themselves, and get off the couch.

#54 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 11:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

"They would cut back on aid to people on Social Security disability who cannot work under any circumstance due to age and infirmity"

or maybe they wouldn't. Maybe they are just carnival barkers trying to win an election.

#55 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

go join Zed in playroom for some lollipops.

#45 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12

You could do worse.

#56 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 11:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

"C'mon, do you think he's that dumb?"

if he's trying to sabotage his own candidacy for the sake of making this point, then...no, he might not be that dumb.

But if had any intention of winning the election....then..well YES, he's that dumb.

#57 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

The Republicans who feel the way he does would gut things like food stamps for poor children and school breakfast programs.

Not true at all. I agree with him, but the solution is more along the lines of what Clinton did in the late 90's. Simply put time limits on it, and force capable people to progress instead of giving them every excuse to continue being a leech.

I think any politician who would say to let Americans "wither and die" should never hold public office.

Again, he didn't say that. So I guess you're referring to a hypothetical politician.

#58 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 11:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Nevertheless, they need to feel bad about it, quit feeling sorry for themselves, and get off the couch."

maybe, but politicans never make people feel bad about anything. Ever. that doesn't work.

#59 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

Do we expect this fool who uttered this to accomplish anything like he claims he wants to?

no...of course not. This fool won't even get elected.

Well, not now, maybe.

Words do matter.

you realize that political parties can pull support for someone in their own party, right?

#53 | Posted by eberly

Have they?

When they do that then I will agree he no longer represents them.

#60 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 11:45 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Tuffluv, I apologize for not reading this guy's comments better.

His statements, including "nobody has the guts to let them wither and die" are correct. It would take a lot of guys to starve people.

He's saying that he doesn't have the guts to starve people and neither do other politicians.

the cheerleaders I referenced earlier want to believe that he wants to starve people......and I foolishly went with that before reading it myself.

#61 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

"People hungry enough will take what they need by force."

Yes, they will. The let-them-die wing of the Republican Party should study history.

#43 | Posted by rcade

You may be hitting on the real reason some of them want to keep their high capacity, semiautomatic weapons so badly.

#62 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-06-12 11:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

you realize that political parties can pull support for someone in their own party, right?

#53 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2014-06-12 11:34 AM | FLAG:

When that happens, you can continue to shout from your high horse.

#63 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-12 11:48 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Which is precisely why it should not be left to politicians to fix this problem. Precisely why people who aren't truly inept should be left to fend for themselves, and reminded they are in the same boat as everyone else.

Tough Love is THE solution to the entitlement-welfare problem.

It's a win-win, because it not only solves the problem, but it saves these people from policies that would otherwise ruin their lives and cause deep regrets in their golden years. It's the truth.

#64 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 11:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

"When they do that then I will agree he no longer represents them."

now you are just lying. You are going to believe that this guys wants to starve people when he didn't say that. that he wants them to wither and die....when he didn't say that.

and you are going to continue to believe that the GOP defends words actually never uttered by this guy.

that's how delusional you are.

#65 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Words do matter."

words you've read.....or words you have made up?

#66 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

Again, he didn't say that.

Yes, he did. He laid it out clearly: "No one has the guts to just let them wither and die." He equates a positive trait -- guts -- with letting welfare recipients wither and die. In his comment he favored letting welfare recipients wither and die.

Instead of putting lipstick on a pig, other Republicans should admit that what he said was heartless and offensive and it's no way to talk about poor Americans and welfare reform.

#67 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 11:50 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"When that happens, you can continue to shout from your high horse."

no thanks.....I have no high horse....just a golf cart.

#68 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

that he wants them to wither and die....when he didn't say that.

"No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."

#69 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 11:52 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

"Yes, he did."

no, he didn't. you're interpreted what you want those words to mean rather than just reading the actual words and accepting it's truth.

nobody has the guts to let them wither and die. very clear words.

he didn't claim he wants to let anybody wither and die....but you're taking it there........that's sad, BTW.

#70 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:53 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."

[...] A democrat running for office who wants to triple food stamp funding could say the exact same thing and you'd have no issue with it.

#71 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 11:55 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

no, he didn't. you're interpreted what you want those words to mean rather than just reading the actual words and accepting it's truth.

I think my interpretation is fair and accurate, and for some reason you and others want to weasel out of the meaning of what he said. It would be easier if you just accepted that he's a heartless idiot.

#72 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 11:56 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

A democrat running for office who wants to triple food stamp funding could say the exact same thing ...

This makes no sense at all. Why would a Democrat in favor of tripling the food stamp budget say it takes guts to let the poor wither and die?

#73 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 11:57 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

"As long as the Dems can get their votes the enabling will continue."

John Hawkins had it right when he said...

"Liberalism is for poor people who are content to stay poor. Conservatism is for poor people who want to make a better life for themselves."

#74 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-06-12 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"Why would a Democrat in favor of tripling the food stamp budget say it takes guts to let the poor wither and die?"

because it's true...nobody has the guts to let the poor wither and die?

what's wrong? maybe you need to back off a bit...take some bias off your shoulders and go read what he said...again.

#75 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Ebs,

To me it came across as him advocating that they should just be allowed to wither and die.

Remove that one sentence and I 100% agree with what this guy is saying.

If that's how it came across to me, can you really blame the lefties and liberals on this site for taking it that way?

It's possible he didn't intend for it to sound the way it did. Everybody can be inarticulate at times. IMO he really needs to clarify his remark and fast.

#77 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 12:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

I could read it a hundred times and I still would understand what he meant better than you did.

#78 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 12:02 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

"To me it came across as him advocating that they should just be allowed to wither and die."

me too....until I actually read what he said. Once I did that....I found that he wasn't advocating any such thing.

#79 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Ebs,

I understand your interpretation of what he said and it's not unreasonable.

#80 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Instead of putting lipstick on a pig, other Republicans should admit that what he said was heartless and offensive and it's no way to talk about poor Americans and welfare reform.

He was talking about politicians who continually enable thievery and laziness. And I respectfully disagree with you wholeheartedly. Until more people begin to talk this way, the problem will continue to get worse. The status quo is ruining people's lives, and PC is only exacerbating the problem.

#81 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 12:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ebs,

I re-read it several times. It took your example of the Dem pol wanting to triple food-stamp funding for me to see it as you are seeing it. Until then, I found the comment at best confusing and at worst I saw it as Rcade is seeing it.

#82 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 12:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

"IMO he really needs to clarify his remark and fast."

I thought he did on his facebook page.

his mistake was being a republican and using the words "wither and die" with regard to the poor.

you can't address it....the only thing worse would have been to make it racial.

#83 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 12:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Jeff, it was reported in a very inflammatory way which is why I didn't read it clearly.

But if one can truly remove the bias and read what he said, you shouldn't conclude that he really wants to do any such thing.

the poor are used a political fodder by both sides and have been for some time. this guy was pointing that reality out.

#84 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

The status quo is ruining people's lives ...

I think you and other Republicans vastly overestimate the welfare that's offered to able-bodied adults in this country. We're nothing like European countries that provide welfare an adult might willingly choose over work.

Most welfare is for children -- who shouldn't suffer because their parents suck at providing food and shelter -- the elderly, and people on permanent disability who are physically incapable of work.

#85 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Politicians use demagoguery all the time for impact. When Erica Payne put out an ad showing Grandma getting thrown from a cliff, did you and other Liberals embrace this, Rcade? Do you feel that people who oppose entitlement programs are evil bastards who really want to see people die? Or did you just chuckle and tell yourself that this was an effective (if crass) way to get the point across?

#86 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 12:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Most welfare is for children -- who shouldn't suffer because their parents suck at providing food and shelter -- the elderly, and people on permanent disability who are physically incapable of work."

and who has the guts to let children and the elderly wither and die?

answer? virtually nobody. I think someone said that, actually.

:-)

#87 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Most welfare is for children -- who shouldn't suffer because their parents suck at providing food and shelter -- the elderly, and people on permanent disability who are physically incapable of work.

Prove it.

I think you and other Republicans vastly overestimate the welfare that's offered to able-bodied adults in this country. We're nothing like European countries that provide welfare an adult might willingly choose over work.

Oh really? Is that why I consistently see men and women checking out at the grocery store, paying for their entire basket with food stamps, and then stroll out and load up their 202 Range Rover as I get in my 2004 pickup and head back to work after emptying my wallet? Makes sense.

#88 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 12:15 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"Do you feel that people who oppose entitlement programs are evil bastards who really want to see people die?"

nobody really opposes entitlement programs. some want to reform them, some want to put some limits of proposed increases in such programs....but it doesn't mean they "oppose" them.

it's like someone who votes against an absurd increase in military spending. that vote doesn't mean they are weak on national security and that they oppose the military. It just means they disagree with the proposed increases.

#89 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 12:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

*2012*

#90 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 12:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

If this candidate isn't a libertarian I'm amazed.

#91 | Posted by Tor at 2014-06-12 12:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Eb; you've lost your mind.

#92 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-12 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Do you feel that people who oppose entitlement programs are evil bastards who really want to see people die?

#86 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014

Some of them. Some of them have a pagan sensibility regarding it. Its a genuine clash of worldviews.

#93 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is that why I consistently see men and women checking out at the grocery store, paying for their entire basket with food stamps, and then stroll out and load up their 202 Range Rover ...

The average monthly benefit in food stamps provided to a recipient is $133.07. That's not going to fill more than one or two shopping baskets a month.

But if you're envious of food stamp recipients because you think they're living high on the hog while you go without, try living as one for a few months.

#94 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 12:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Anyone remember that particular Republican debate? The one where Republican audience members were shouting out "Good!" when it was postulated that someone without insurance might die?

Oh, yes. My, my yes. There are people who would let others starve in a heartbeat. Or let them stay in a ditch with traffic injuries rather than pay the expense of an ER.

They're almost entirely Republicans.

#95 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 12:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 4

Bruce,

I'm literate. I can read.

that's all I'm going to say.

have a nice day all.......

#96 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 12:24 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

nobody really opposes entitlement programs.

Nobody? There are plenty of Ayn Rand devotees on the right who would end them entirely if they could. Here's one:

ari.aynrand.org

"[P]roposed solutions are usually built on the assumption that the entitlement state is a moral institution that we must save. But what if it's not?"

#97 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 12:26 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Well, I believe that most people who are genuine about the issue would view a chisler, an able-bodied man or woman who is lazy and entitled, as a disgusting individual, because there is still suffering in this world of truly inept men, women, and children, who are not able to receive the help they need because this problem has become so out of control. Most people would like to see that chisler pay a price because he or she is the real culprit.

But it's even far beyond the individual. It's cultural, now. People have food stamps, and an iPhone, and cable, and an Xbox360 and a Range Rover. Something's not right here.

#98 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 12:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here's the world according to Zed:

Not all Republicans are evil, but all evil people are Republicans.

#99 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 12:27 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

People have food stamps, and an iPhone, and cable, and an Xbox360 and a Range Rover.

You had a point until you included the Range Rover.

#100 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 12:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

People have food stamps, and an iPhone, and cable, and an Xbox360 and a Range Rover.

You had a point until you included the Range Rover.

#101 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 12:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

He is, mindlessly enough, just parroting the rwing political mantra that you are on your own in this world and you should be afraid, very afraid.

People in fear are easier to control. I mean, how else can .01 percent of the people control the rest unless they have brainwashed them in fear?

This is why safety nets and "It takes a village" are so hated by these fearmongers.... those ideals represent a challenge to the fear, hope for the hopeless, inclusion for the excluded.

#102 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 12:30 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

But if you're envious of food stamp recipients because you think they're living high on the hog while you go without, try living as one for a few months

See that's just it rcade.. I was raised on tough love, and I have more self respect than that. But anyone who thinks the honor system works, and that most people feel that way has their eyes closed.

I'm not going without. But neither are they. And I'm sorry, but if they are receiving help, then they need to go without to some degree, or they will continue to ask for the help instead of working harder and getting by on their own grit.. which is what we want, for them as dignified people, and for us as a society.

#103 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 12:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Most people would like to see that chisler pay a price

#98 | Posted by TuffLuv at

No one loves a chisler. That's bipartisan. What makes the skin crawl is those of you who WOULD throw granny or the infant off the cliff.

Its one of the few arguments for universal open-carry that's made sense to me. I need to be armed to defend myself against mad dogs and Randians.

Or perhaps just nuke them from orbit. As a wise man once said, its the only way to be sure.

#104 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 12:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

#97 | POSTED BY RCADE

Undoubtedly there are some "Randians" who would completely eliminate the safety net if they could. But, if you are going to be fair and intellectually honest about it, you have to acknowledge that they also believe the poor should be helped and the best means of doing so are charity, family, friends and community.

It's not that they don't want to help the poor, it's that they disagree with how to best go about doing so.

Granted, some people truly are cold and heartless and couldn't care less about the poor. Some of them are Republicans and some are Democrats.

#105 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 12:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not all Republicans are evil, but all evil people are Republicans.

#99 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12

Something happened to you folk a while back. Maybe its a psychic remanifestation of Wotan (a serious theory). In any case, you've been looking for a fight, or some mass persecution you can get behind, for a while now.

We sane people wish that you would stop.

#106 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 12:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

This philosophy of allowing "withering and dying" of the poor is just as reprehensible as Obama VA allowing veterans to "wither and die". At least the veterans consciously contributed to society.

#107 | Posted by matsop at 2014-06-12 12:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is why safety nets and "It takes a village" are so hated by these fearmongers..

Nope. I believe wholeheartedly in both these concepts. If you don't think they are being abused by the lazy and entitled, and don't think that liberal politicians are intentionally giving them the means to game the system, then you are being disingenuous.

And by the way, this tactic is far more effective than fearmongering. Let them eat cake!

#108 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 12:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Zed,

Just yesterday you said that racists exist and most of them vote Republican.

In fairness, allow me to amend my above comment.

In Zed's world:

Not all Republicans are evil but most evil people are Republicans.

#109 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 12:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

-a chisler

There will always be a small percentage of such as there is now. But the idea that they are the majority, or anywhere near it, is a product of fear and ignorance.

Much like the "voter fraud" excuse for new Jim Crow laws or like the drug testing of welfare recipients that turns up nearly nothing.

Some of us thought rwingers would learn after they found out 50 years ago that the "black welfare queens driving Cadillacs" meme was a political lie and that most of those people were poor white mothers with children.

We were obviously too optimistic.

#110 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 12:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2


Its one of the few arguments for universal open-carry that's made sense to me. I need to be armed to defend myself against mad dogs and Randians.
Or perhaps just nuke them from orbit. As a wise man once said, its the only way to be sure.

Sane people, huh Zed?

#111 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Some of them. Some of them have a pagan sensibility regarding it. Its a genuine clash of world views."

Pagan sensibility? What is it you think that means? Some pagans would happily give to others.

"I believe that most people who are genuine about the issue would view a chisler, an able-bodied man or woman who is lazy and entitled, as a disgusting individual"

Agreed, but you seem to think that the majority of welfare people fit this bill.

#112 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-12 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I might add that there are provisions in the ACA for the future to allow "withering and dying" of patients ala the VA----can anyone remember the debate about "death squads"?

#113 | Posted by matsop at 2014-06-12 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

A lot of people get trapped in the system, Corky.

They want to get out but simply don't know how.

That isn't coming from me. A close friend of my dad's has owned a bankruptcy business for over 30 years. That is how he explained it to me over a couple of years while our 2 families were vacationing together. He sees it firsthand on a daily basis.

#114 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 12:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

years = beers

#115 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 12:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

#114 |

Anecdotes are not evidence. Most people on welfare need it.

#116 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 12:41 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Mastop,

You are making some decent points but they really aren't relevant to this thread.

Just sayin'

#117 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 12:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Corky,
But the idea that they are the majority..

Show me where anyone said they are a majority.

However, they are not a small percentage, either.

The entitlement mentality has become institutionalized. And the arguments made on this very thread are a perfect example of how hard you left wingers try to enable it.

Why?

Because happy fat couch potatoes will always vote for and support the enablers who buy their food and their iPhones.

Way more effective than fear mongering.

#118 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 12:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Cork,

I am aware that anecdotes aren't evidence.

#119 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Pagan sensibility? What is it you think that means? Some pagans would happily give to others.

#112 | Posted by pragmatist at

Not the pagans I'm talking about.

#120 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 12:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Some of us thought rwingers would learn after they found out 50 years ago that the "black welfare queens driving Cadillacs" meme was a political lie and that most of those people were poor white mothers with children.

ironic that you should bring this up... I didn't bring race into this argument, but..

Are you aware of how the black family, particularly in the norther states was destroyed by entitlement policies laid forth by the government in this country 50 years ago?

#121 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 12:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

-However, they are not a small percentage, either.

Yes, they are a small percentage. And your assigning of motivation to Dems for votes is laughable.

The Great Society saved millions of lives and pulled millions more out of poverty. A vast majority of people who use these programs today do so because they have to, not because they want to live in poverty.

Mindless Birchers notwithstanding.

#122 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 12:46 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

-Are you aware of how the black family, particularly in the norther states was destroyed by entitlement policies laid forth by the government in this country 50 years ago?

I am aware that rwing "think" tanks financed by your 1 percenter masters have led mindless Birchers to believe that nonsense by playing on their greed and and ignorance, yes.

#123 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 12:48 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

"Show me where anyone said they are a majority. "

You sure made it sound that way with your anecdote.

"Not the pagans I'm talking about."

Then you need to be specific. Your sentence, as written, didn't make sense, anymore than it would make sense if I spoke broadly about Christians hating gays.

#124 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-12 12:55 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Contrary to "Entitlement Society" Rhetoric, Over Nine-Tenths of Entitlement Benefits Go to Elderly, Disabled, or Working Households

... more than 90 percent of the benefit dollars that entitlement and other mandatory programs[1] spend go to assist people who are elderly, seriously disabled, or members of working households -- not to able-bodied, working-age Americans who choose not to work. (See Figure 1.) This figure has changed little in the past few years."

www.cbpp.org

#125 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 12:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Corky,

Then you are hopelessly denying the facts.

It went like this..

A simple welfare program intended to help struggling families..

The stipulation was enforced, however, that it was for single parents (mothers) only.

When it was realized that the benefit was more than the average inner city black man could bring home as income, it made the most financial sense for the man to depart. Then, supposedly, he could contribute where he could, and mom, with the kids, could get the benefit.

A friend of mine who lived in Philly watched this happen with his own eyes. He saw the change taking place. It did happen.

Institutionalized destruction of the poor family. Government supported incentive to create fatherless homes in the inner city.

Now, don't construe this as me believing they wanted this to happen. I don't believe that. I think is was just an unfortunate consequence of the old, "I'm with the government, and I'm here to help".

Sad. Very sad.

#126 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 01:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

#125

"Entitlement programs" are not the safety net.

Social Security is not welfare.

What this GOP pol is talking about is welfare, food stamps, etc.

Let's keep the focus on what's actually being discussed.

#127 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 01:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then you need to be specific.

#124 | Posted by pragmatist at

To be specific, I'm not talking of any living neo-pagans you have met who have also broadly adopted Christian sensibilities, like most of the atheists.

I'm speaking of the ones who would have eaten you back in the day, as a means to magically absorb your pedanticism.

#128 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

What's really very sad is "thinking" that anecdotes are evidence, while ignoring the real world evidence...

... as in that, "more than 90 percent of the benefit dollars that entitlement and other mandatory programs[1] spend go to assist people who are elderly, seriously disabled, or members of working households -- not to able-bodied, working-age Americans who choose not to work."

#129 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 01:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Cork,

Check the out-of-wedlock birth rate from 1920 - 1964. It's relatively constant. Then look at what happened from 1965-present. It skyrocketed. Now, I am not saying that welfare is the only reason for it, but it's a HUGE contributor.

#130 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 01:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"I'm speaking of the ones who would have eaten you back in the day, as a means to magically absorb your pedanticism."

I knew that's where you were going, and it's still silly. Not all pagans were the same. And you would not leave unquestioned a similarly silly assertion regarding Christians, neo or otherwise. But it's funny when you accuse others of pedanticism.

But thank you for acknowledging my magic power.

#131 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-12 01:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Jeffy, I read all this Bircher nonsense in the '70's and, sadly enough, it has never changed.

It is based in bigoted white supremacist theory and rhetoric based on greed and ignorance, and always has been.

Sure there are some chiselers. Sure some poor black or white folks depend too much on available help.... but they are the vast minority as many objective studies have shown.

The truth is that these few are portrayed as the majority by tight-fisted bigots and ignorant racists who in the process have deceived the gullible and naive with decades of political fearmongering.

#132 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 01:14 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

130: I would think that changing social mores (as a result of various factors) is at least as significant.

#133 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-12 01:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

And Zed, since folks here seem to like Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org

This is a good starting place for you to consider the meaning of the term and the fact that it's historical meaning is not limited to the eaters of which you speak.

#134 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-12 01:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

"People in fear are easier to control. I mean, how else can .01 percent of the people control the rest unless they have brainwashed them in fear?"

Corky has it right this time. This government, (.01 percent) is controlling the rest of the population by siccing the dogs of the IRS, BATF, Homeland Security, DOJ, OSHA and all the other hounds on dissenters. Many are now in fear of government persecution. It's the Chicago way.

#135 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-06-12 01:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then there are the Neanderthals to deal with, of course.

#136 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 01:27 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

People have food stamps, and an iPhone, and cable, and an Xbox360 and a Range Rover.

This site still needs a BS flag, pretty bad.

#137 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-06-12 01:28 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

Corky,

Btw thank you for propagating the practice constantly employed by liberals of name-calling, ostracizing, and insulting your opponents in a debate. I understand it's the only effective tool you have, but please, you might want to use it more sparingly, as it only works on weak-minded uneducated types.

Embracing philosophies on self-reliance and the destructiveness of welfare to the individual receiving it do not require bigotry, racism, religion nor mindlessness.

On your numbers, other than the elderly, these definitions can all be subjective. If I mow two lawns a week in my neighborhood, I'm technically part of the working force. It's well documented that disability benefits are the most abused of all.

#138 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 01:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ah, should have waited for you to include "Neanderthals".. I should be more patient. You are ridiculous.

#139 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Jeffy, I read all this Bircher nonsense in the '70's and, sadly enough, it has never changed.
It is based in bigoted white supremacist theory and rhetoric based on greed and ignorance, and always has been.
Sure there are some chiselers. Sure some poor black or white folks depend too much on available help.... but they are the vast minority as many objective studies have shown.
The truth is that these few are portrayed as the majority by tight-fisted bigots and ignorant racists who in the process have deceived the gullible and naive with decades of political fearmongering.

#132 | POSTED BY CORKY

Oh please.

Out of wedlock rates rose steadily immediately after the 'Great Society' (sic) was enacted. Children, particularly boys, being raised without the presence of a father is a recipe for massive societal problems in the aggregate.

Racism, "Bircherism", white supremacy and whatever other insipid pejoratives you can conjure up have nothing to do with it.

#140 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

-On your numbers, other than the elderly, these definitions can all be subjective. If I mow two lawns a week in my neighborhood, I'm technically part of the working force. It's well documented that disability benefits are the most abused of all.

roflmao!!

The decent into nonsense is like an untethered elevator with this one.

Calling a Bircher a Bircher is factual assessment, btw.

- weak-minded uneducated types.

You mean Birchers.

#141 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

No I mean your usual adversaries, I guess.

#142 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

- have nothing to do with it.

They have everything to do with it. Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them.

But I expect it is difficult for those who live in the rwing echo chamber to distinguish reality from propaganda.

#143 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

-your usual adversaries

Respect is earned, not given.

#144 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

People have food stamps, and an iPhone, and cable, and an Xbox360 and a Range Rover.

Don't forget a private jet, mansion, vacation mansion, chauffer and dressage horse.

#146 | Posted by 726 at 2014-06-12 01:41 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Birch Society Republicans: America Now Has Three Major Political Parties

www.dailykos.com

#147 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 01:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

But I expect it is difficult for those who live in the rwing echo chamber to distinguish reality from propaganda.

#143 | POSTED BY CORKY

Reality from propaganda?

Are the statistics I cited regarding out-of-wedlock birthrates fabricated?

Are the psychologists and sociologists who make the case that children, particularly boys, who grow up without a dad are statistically much higher to become criminals and have other problems in life Birchers and white supremacists as well?

Children who grow up without dad, regardless of race are statistically more likely to become criminals when they become adults.

That is reality.

If you have evidence to suggest otherwise, I am very open to seeing it.

#148 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 01:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Don't forget a private jet, mansion, vacation mansion, chauffer and dressage horse....and Barnabas.

#149 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 01:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

I is obvious, Corky, that you are trained in the leftist technique of what's called "conciousness raising". In the future, be careful how you use it with me, because I will expose it for what it is, which is a propagandist's technique that has been employed by many fascist groups, including the Germans in the late 30's (a la Goebbels), feminists, global warming advocates, et al.

It works very well on the naive, young and/or uneducated. But, based on liberal beliefs that people who disagree should be silenced, I personally think Rcade should disallow it here.

Either way. If you call me names, I will expose you for what you are. A propagandist.

#150 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 01:47 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

If you have evidence to suggest otherwise, I am very open to seeing it.

#148 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

You don't really expect a shill to honestly concede anything, do you?

#151 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

(a la Goebbels)

hahahaha!!

Invoked as he whines about, "calling names".

What is "obvious" is that I don't suffer fools lightly.

#152 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 01:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hey blame the Free-Market Consumer Driven society.
They've spent so much time brainwashing the masses that now every idiot believes they need cable, an iphone a good car etc. or they're worth nothing as a human being.

#153 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-06-12 01:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Like I said, Jeffy, you need to expand your reading beyond therwing echo chamber.

www.theatlantic.com

#154 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 01:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

No what is obvious is that you have an agenda. You have not participated in any sort of discussion here. Only tried to lambaste people. So, you believe I am a fool after reading 5 of my blog posts? Really? You believe that you know my political affiliations, my beliefs, my religion, and my most personal feelings? How idiotic. I, too, have very little tolerance for ignorance, Corky. We'll go round and round I guess.

#155 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Children who grow up without dad, regardless of race are statistically more likely to become criminals when they become adults."

I don't argue that. I argue that blame can be laid solely or primarily on the enactment of the War on Poverty/Great Society.

#156 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-12 01:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

What out of wedlock birth rates are actually related to is poverty.

www.usnews.com

#157 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 01:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Efforts by social scientists to explain the rise in out-of-wedlock births have so far been unconvincing, though several theories have a wide popular following.

One argument that appeals to conservatives is that of Charles Murray, who attributes the increase to overly generous federal welfare benefits.

But as David Ellwood and Lawrence Summers have shown, welfare benefits could not have played a major role in the rise of out-of-wedlock births because benefits rose sharply in the 1960s and then fell in the 1970s and 1980s, when out-of-wedlock births rose most.

A study by Robert Moffitt in 1992 also found that welfare benefits can account for only a small fraction of the rise in the out-of-wedlock birth ratio."

www.brookings.edu

Be careful what you ask for, my friend Jeff.

TUFFLUV?? Never heard of you. Who were you here before?

#158 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 01:59 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Calling somebody a Bircher isn't name calling when you're referring to members of the John Birch Society.

#159 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-12 01:59 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

"Calling somebody a Bircher isn't name calling when you're referring to members of the John Birch Society."

How about "KKKarl Rove" when he's not a member of the KKK? Is that name calling?

#160 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-06-12 02:01 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Karl is a Member here?

Who'd a thunk it?

#161 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 02:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not all pagans were the same.

#131 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-12 01:13 PM |

Well, I guess we have to accept that. But the point was always: Pagans were not like Christians.

The world changed ( or began to change, since we are both so pedantic) 2,000 years ago. Over the last several years I've seen some people hint and even argue, that it didn't really.

Rather like 114 A.D. was like 2014 A.D., only people dressed funny.

#162 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks for the link, Cork.

I'll check it out.

Please note: I didn't claim that welfare was the only cause for the rise, only that it is a contributing factor.

#163 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 02:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is a good starting place for you to consider the meaning of the term and the fact that it's historical meaning is not limited to the eaters of which you speak.

#134 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06

Invite me to your class next year. I'll be pleased to give the kiddies a series of lectures in Classical Civilization, without once referring to Wikipedia.

#164 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 02:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Calling somebody a Bircher isn't name calling when you're referring to members of the John Birch Society.

#159 | POSTED BY RCADE

What about calling someone a Bircher who isn't a memberof the John Birch Society?

#165 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 02:09 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

lol, your hedge is duly noted, mi amigo.

Check out all three links.

#166 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 02:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Calling somebody a Bircher isn't name calling when you're referring to members of the John Birch Society.

and.. who is that, on this thread?

#167 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 02:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

#165

If it walks like a duck....

#168 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 02:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

RCADE: "Let's say you're in charge, and you decide to eliminate the social safety net entirely"

So howe do you make the jump from entitlements [welfare, ETB cards, obamaphones, etc., to Social Security where the recipients have [involuntarily] paid into the program throughout their working life to get their money back in their old age? Apples and oranges.

#169 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-06-12 02:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

I thought you people wanted to talk about out of wedlock births blamed on the Great Society? Black people too dumb to know they are in Dem pockets?

No? Don't let a few articles that demolish those idiocies stop you.

#170 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

You don't really expect a shill to honestly concede anything, do you?

#151 | POSTED BY TUFFLUV

I wasn't asking him to concede. I was asking him to provide evidence to the contrary of what I was claiming.

He provided 2 links. One to USNEWS which may or may not be insightful. The other was from Brookings, which is a respectable liberal think-tank that produces scholarly work.

So, he did exactly what I asked him to do and I am glad for his doing so.

#172 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 02:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Words do matter."

words you've read.....or words you have made up?

#66 | Posted by eberly

I did not make up the words "No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."

I apologize Eberly. Apparently "Let them wither and die" means something completely different than to you.

"No one has the guts to" = everyone is afraid to or does not have the courage to...

"Wither" = to become dry and weak

"die" = to cease living

I did not know that in conservotardism "No one has the guts to just let them wither and die." actually means something like "no thoughtful society would let people go hungry" as later clarified by Republican candidate, John Johnston. (who in no way shape or form actually represents a real Republican)

#173 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 02:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"TUFFLUV?? Never heard of you. Who were you here before?"

Smells like Eddie.

.

#174 | Posted by Dave at 2014-06-12 02:17 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

-who is that

www.drudge.com

#175 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 02:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry, that was me. I just got done eating tuna tacos.

#176 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-06-12 02:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"The world changed ( or began to change, since we are both so pedantic) 2,000 years ago."

Actually the Buddha predated Jesus by about 500 years, and Jesus ripped off his material. But the Buddha didn't claim to be the "son of God" and didn't declare that those who didn't follow him would burn in hell.

#177 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-06-12 02:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#172 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

I've always said you are a nice Polish boy, Painless. :^)

Don't forget the Atlantic article, too.

www.theatlantic.com

#178 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Racism, "Bircherism", white supremacy and whatever other insipid pejoratives you can conjure up have nothing to do with it."

Well put! Racism, white supremacy, etc were exponentially worse problems before the great society.

So how does it figure that racism and white supremacy have caused the out of wedlock birth rates to increase since the 60s when everyone agrees racism and white supremacy are less of a presence than before and the fact that out of wedlock rates increased for whites as well?

Some people just can't stop being a race baiter. It's the only arrow in their quiver.

#179 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 02:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

What out of wedlock birth rates are actually related to is poverty.
www.usnews.com
#157 | POSTED BY CORKY

I would agree with that..... but given they are somehow in poverty, don't they also collect from the government?

I am not saying its a cause, but certainly supporting those that can't support themselves is an issue. Especially when they reproduce more relative to the general population.

I don't know what the solution is but certainly enabling having children isn't a good thing.

#180 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-06-12 02:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Calling somebody a Bircher isn't name calling when you're referring to members of the John Birch Society.

and.. who is that, on this thread?

#167 | Posted by TuffLuv

If they are not actually dues paying members yet they rightly should be called BINOs.

#181 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 02:21 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 4

I wasn't asking him to concede.

You posted three factual statements for him to acknowledge as factual. Did he? Did his links debunk that out-of-wedlock rates have increased, or that boys that grow up without fathers are somehow not worse off?

They may have been insightful, but are you now saying you were wrong?

#182 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 02:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

-Did his links debunk that out-of-wedlock rates have increased

That they are attributable to, "the increase to overly generous federal welfare benefits."?

Why yes, he did with the Brookings link.

#183 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 02:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I did not make up the words "No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."

you have shamelessly backed up and realized that you were wrong.

you could just admit you (among others here struggling at a 5th grade reading level) wanted to believe he wants people to wither and die.

you can stop pretending you always understood what he said. you didn't. I admitted I missed it.

#184 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 02:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, let me understand this Donnerboy..

I did not make up the words "No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."
Apparently "Let them wither and die" means something completely different than to you.

These two statements are equivalent in your mind?

#185 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 02:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

-Did his links debunk that out-of-wedlock rates have increased
That they are attributable to, "the increase to overly generous federal welfare benefits."?
Why yes, he did with the Brookings link.

That was not my question, nor was it JeffJ's post.

#186 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 02:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

- BINOs.

lol!

#187 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 02:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

They may have been insightful, but are you now saying you were wrong?

#182 | Posted by TuffLuv

That can't be... no one is EVER wrong here.

#188 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 02:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

#186

I see, so now you are denying having promoted that nonsense?

#189 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 02:26 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"I did not make up the words "No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."
Apparently "Let them wither and die" means something completely different than to you."

wow.

#190 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 02:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

These two statements are equivalent in your mind?

#185 | Posted by TuffLuv

i believe i broke down the whole sentence meaning..not just "Let them wither and die" and no I did not equate "Let them wither and die" with the entire statement "No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."

I defined each section and then compared the whole statement to the Not Representative of Republicans "clarification" "no thoughtful society would let people go hungry".

That whole reading comprehension thingy is really tough for you guys, huh?

#191 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 02:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Can I just....

Johnston's Facebook comment in full was: "For almost three generations people, in some cases, have been given handouts. They have been ‘enabled' so much that their paradigm in life is simply being given the stuff of life, however meager. What you see is a setting for a life of misery is life to them never-the-less. No one has the guts to just let them wither and die. No one who wants votes is willing to call a spade a spade. As long as the Dems can get their votes the enabling will continue. The Republicans need their votes and dare not cut the fiscal tether. It is really a political Catch-22. The voters are the ones in charge. however when only 10-11 percent show up to vote, not much will change. People simply are not hurting enough, or simply happy enough that they will do nothing. consequently the dole continues."

#192 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-12 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

#189
I see, so now you are denying having promoted that nonsense?

What nonsense? The statement I made was that the initiation of a particular welfare program that gave financial assistance to single mothers directly caused an exodus of inner city black men to depart from their families.

I said nothing, zero, about out-of-wedlock birthrates thereafter.

So, I really don't see where you are coming from. I stand by my statements, as you will find I always do, while also having the humility to admit when I am wrong. In this case, I am not.

#193 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

actually the Brookings link does a better job of pointing to increased abortions and access to birth control as a cause for the increase in out of wedlock birth rates.

which wasn't why it was posted, no doubt.

But it's funny in any case.

#194 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 02:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

#192

so, now that you posted it, you can read it....along with some others here.

good job.

#195 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 02:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

#192

Thanks bruce. It should be clear to everyone now that he was not suggesting that we let people wither and die, but simply explaining that propagating a culture of entitlement is most harmful to the person receiving such help, if it continues endlessly.

#196 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 02:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

John Johnston picked on welfare recipients....which is really what has some @$$es chapped around here.

so they want to parrot, "He said let them wither and die" as though he actually said it.

it's funny....cause they're still doing it.

#197 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 02:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

"That whole reading comprehension thingy is really tough for you guys, huh?"

I already told you to stop trying to pretending you understood what he said, didn't I?

There are only a few people here who "comprehend" what he said.

And you're not one of them.

#198 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 02:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

you could just admit you (among others here struggling at a 5th grade reading level) wanted to believe he wants people to wither and die.

I "want" to believe no such thing.

What I am is amazed at the stupid things that come out of some peoples mouths when they are pandering to their base. And look at you all defending him because he didn't REALLY mean that.

I wonder how many "like" he got to that statement before he had to "clarify" it into almost exactly opposite of what he really said.

#199 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 02:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

- "As long as the Dems can get their votes the enabling will continue."

What should be obvious to everyone is that his perpetuation of the rwing meme about blacks being enslaved by welfare promoting Dems is not only obnoxious as hell, but anti-factual as well.

#200 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 02:44 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

I "want" to believe no such thing.

clearly, you do.

"you all defending him because he didn't REALLY mean that."

you are the one worrying about what he "meant." There is no need to worry about what he meant if you objectively read his words.

which you can't do. you can't objectively read it.

#201 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 02:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

#189
I see, so now you are denying having promoted that nonsense?
What nonsense? The statement I made was that the initiation of a particular welfare program that gave financial assistance to single mothers directly caused an exodus of inner city black men to depart from their families.
I said nothing, zero, about out-of-wedlock birthrates thereafter.
So, I really don't see where you are coming from. I stand by my statements, as you will find I always do, while also having the humility to admit when I am wrong. In this case, I am not.

Well Corky, are you ready to concede that you were wrong, and that you accused me of making a claim I did not make?

#202 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 02:44 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 3

"Well, I guess we have to accept that. But the point was always: Pagans were not like Christians."

Well, they sure didn't worship Christ.

I never said they were like Christians. My point was, there are plenty of pagans (historical pagans) who don't fit the characterization that started this little argument.

"I'll be pleased to give the kiddies a series of lectures in Classical Civilization, without once referring to Wikipedia."

I'll give you a Funny Flag for that. But you know, you'd have to be more open-minded to teach in my class. Christians welcome, though. I've had fun with numerous students of faith--and in a good way, not mocking or belittling kind of fun.

"...simply explaining that propagating a culture of entitlement is most harmful to the person receiving such help, if it continues endlessly...."

Generous of you. If he was doing that, he was doing it quite badly.

#203 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-12 02:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Corky never admits he's wrong even though it's habitual. You wonder what kind of environment he grew up in so I wouldn't be too tough on him.

#204 | Posted by matsop at 2014-06-12 02:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

#202

lmao! Your perpetuation of the rwing meme about blacks being enslaved by welfare for political purposes, also inferring they are not bright enough to know it, is as obnoxious as Moseley's.

Why do I feel like I am arguing with Special Eddie?

#205 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I already told you to stop trying to pretending you understood what he said, didn't I?

LOL

Ok let's pretend I don't understand it.

(Even though I don't need you of all people to try and tell me what he said.)
I can cut and paste here again for you. But, highleight the exact words so you can see HE SAID IT.

What we apparently need is for YOU BINOS to translate this statement into non-BINO language for us.

Johnston's Facebook comment in full was: "For almost three generations people, in some cases, have been given handouts. They have been ‘enabled' so much that their paradigm in life is simply being given the stuff of life, however meager. What you see is a setting for a life of misery is life to them never-the-less. No one has the guts to just let them wither and die. No one who wants votes is willing to call a spade a spade. As long as the Dems can get their votes the enabling will continue. The Republicans need their votes and dare not cut the fiscal tether. It is really a political Catch-22. The voters are the ones in charge. however when only 10-11 percent show up to vote, not much will change. People simply are not hurting enough, or simply happy enough that they will do nothing. consequently the dole continues."

#206 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

#203

What do you mean 'if'?

For almost three generations people, in some cases, have been given handouts. They have been ‘enabled' so much that their paradigm in life is simply being given the stuff of life, however meager. What you see is a setting for a life of misery is life to them never-the-less.

I agree he could have done better, but there really isn't too much ambiguity in what he's saying.

#207 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 02:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Corky never admits he's wrong even though it's habitual. You wonder what kind of environment he grew up in so I wouldn't be too tough on him.

#204 | POSTED BY MATSOP

lol.. probably had older sisters, like me

#208 | Posted by TuffLuv at 2014-06-12 02:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

"No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."

Nope, not much ambiguity there.

#209 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-12 02:52 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

you are the one worrying about what he "meant." There is no need to worry about what he meant if you objectively read his words.

Actually no.

I know exactly what he meant. And I actually believe him. This is exactly what these types would do if given the chance.

I am not the one in denial here or has any need to defend what he said.

#210 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

will someone tell corky that Moseley isn't who said that?

#206 will someone tackle this guy and take the shovel out of his hand he is using to dig a deeper hole for himself?

#212 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 02:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Actually the Buddha predated Jesus by about 500 years

#177 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014

I'm astonished that you admit the reality of Buddha. There's no telling exactly what you'll do next.

#213 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 03:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."

Nope, not much ambiguity there.

#209 | Posted by Corky

I think I found the problem Corky...Seems we have a comms problem.

In English we would say, "No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."

In BINO that means, "no thoughtful society would let people go hungry".

See? Those transcription errors will get you every time!

#214 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 03:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"I know exactly what he meant. And I actually believe him. This is exactly what these types would do if given the chance."

just to be clear so you don't run from it again, you think John Johnston wants the poor to wither and die and that's exactly what he meant with what he said?

got it.

I honestly though you realized that he didn't really say that and were pretending you knew that al along.

rather you're going to stay with that interpretation.

good for you.

#215 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 03:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

"No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."

I posted this earlier.....a democrat could run for office and say the exact same thing and all of the partisan cheerleading fools here would interpret this as a compassionate statement pointing out the benevolence of our society and the govt.

#216 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 03:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I am not the one in denial here"

LOL The comedy just writes itself here.

#217 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 03:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Cork,

I just penned a long response to your Brookings link and I temporarily lost my connection and thus lost the post.

----!!!

Here's the abbreviated version:

First off, pretty good piece. The 'technology shock' theory was very interesting. I always just attributed the decline in 'shotgun' marriage to the sexual revolution and relaxed attitudes about premarital sex and pregnancy.

Since 1970, out of wed births have increased roughly 300% (using your source's numbers). They claim that had the shotgun marriage rate remained constant, out of wed births would have been 40% of what they actually are. That would have us at a 120% increase, which is still huge. They mention a reduction in adoption rates which is a salient point, but they don't break it down as a statistical contribution.

Their argument made sense to me. Having said that, they brushed off the welfare component as statistically insignificant without providing a number. Such an omission suggests an ideological bias. Even if welfare accounts for only a stastically insignificant 10% of the increase (I suspect it's higher than that, but lower than what I believed prior to reading your link) that would mean that welfare is responsible for a 30% increase in out of wed birth rates since 1970. That is not an insignificant number and is likely an under-stated number.

Regardless, it was a good link and I thank you for sharing it.

#218 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 03:15 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

But you know, you'd have to be more open-minded to teach in my class. Christians welcome, though.

#203 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014

Sure. But only the "open-minded ones".

I might give your students an accurate description of the Roman arena, and then see how open-mindedly you'd treat any student who said he'd loved to have been on the first row.

#219 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 03:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ebs,

Swap 'guts' with 'balls'. That is how I think his comment is being construed, fairly or not.

#220 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 03:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

The use of 'balls' would imply that it's something that we should do, but lack the sack for doing.

#221 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 03:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

#221

I guess....but that means that donner and the cheerleader brigade has to "imply" what they mean, after they change the words he actually used in the first place.

Geez...I guess that means we have license to make up anything about what it means. WE can just claim he meant to say "If I had my way, I would slaughter all of the poor with machine guns in one day"

#222 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 03:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

"No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."

.....a democrat could run for office and say the exact same thing and all of the partisan cheerleading fools here would interpret this as a compassionate statement pointing out the benevolence of our society and the govt.

#216 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 0

That dizzying sensation was you finally going round the bend.

#223 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-12 03:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"Regardless, it was a good link and I thank you for sharing it."

He's probably wishing he had never posted it now.

#224 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 03:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think what he meant (if we are going to play this game) is that he is calling other republicans hypocrites for claiming they want the poor to wither and die and then never actually doing it to them when they get elected.

#225 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 03:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

#222,

My point being, I construed it pretty similarly as the DR liberals and lefties construed it and that was after reading it three times and taking into account that I strongly agreed with everything else he said.

It took an analogy from you for me to see it as he probably intended his comment to be taken.

That particular comment was poorly articulated and his choice of words was terrible. That's on him.

#226 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 03:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ebs,

Had he articulated it better, hell, had he not made that particular comment at all, some of this site's usual suspects would be holding him up as Exhibit A for GOP dooshiness.

#227 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 03:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

#221, accurate depiction. I've tried searching around for different uses of the idiom "guts," maybe it means something different than it does where I live, but it seems pretty universal in meaning the quality of having courage. for example: www.usingenglish.com

I understand that maybe he didn't mean he advocates letting the poor die off by starvation, but he's using language that caters to people who do. In every English class ever, you are told to write to your audience, and that is his audience, individualists who feel that they and those like them have done anything to deserve what they have, objectivists who believe a persons value is only in what they produce, people that believe that selfishness is a virtue when it produces something with a price tag and which can be denied to those they don't approve of. Honestly, poor people and left leaning voters aren't going to be liking him on Facebook for his gems of wisdom.

#228 | Posted by blah at 2014-06-12 03:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

err, was supposed to say " individualists who feel that they and those like them are the only ones to have done anything to deserve what they have"

Bad editing on the fly, my fault.

#229 | Posted by blah at 2014-06-12 03:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bad editing on the fly, my fault.
#229 | POSTED BY BLAH

Wouldn't be anyone else's.

#230 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-06-12 03:41 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Wouldn't be anyone else's.
#230 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Except them damned Dems and there enabling voters.

#231 | Posted by blah at 2014-06-12 03:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Their. Oh my hell. I'm going home now.

#232 | Posted by blah at 2014-06-12 03:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Wouldn't be anyone else's."
#230 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Except them damned Dems and there enabling voters.
#231 | POSTED BY BLAH AT 2014-06-12 03:44 PM

LOL! FF!

#233 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-06-12 03:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

If any of these retards were honestly interested in knowing what he meant...then maybe one of their friends in the media could have asked Johnston if he wants the poor to wither and die.

But no....better to just believe they know what he meant.

#234 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 03:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

#234 | POSTED BY EBERLY

Isn't that what the conservative media is there for? They asleep on the job?

Or too busy covering Cantor's loss?

#235 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-06-12 04:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

#235

the latter

#236 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 04:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"No one has the guts to just let them wither and die."

I posted this earlier.....a democrat could run for office and say the exact same thing and all of the partisan cheerleading fools here would interpret this as a compassionate statement pointing out the benevolence of our society and the govt.

#216 | Posted by eberly

And posting it again makes even less sense than the first time you did it.

When a Democrat says that get back to us.

You should probably let this whole embarrassing episode "wither and die".

#237 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-12 05:13 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

then maybe one of their friends in the media could have asked Johnston if he wants the poor to wither and die.

You're suggesting his statement implies remaining gutless might be the proper course of action?

What's your mother tongue, Eberly? I'm guessing it isn't English.

#238 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-12 05:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You're suggesting his statement implies remaining gutless might be the proper course of action?"

no

"What's your mother tongue, Eberly? I'm guessing it isn't English."

yeah, but I'm white...so it doesn't matter, really.

maybe you dolts should stop "interpreting" what you want his words to mean.....obviously you suck at it.

I merely read what he said and didn't put words in his mouth.

you should try it.....once.

#239 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 05:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

If any of these retards were honestly interested in knowing what he meant...then maybe one of their friends in the media could have asked Johnston if he wants the poor to wither and die.
But no....better to just believe they know what he meant.

#234 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2014-06-12 03:50 PM | FLAG:

Conservatives speak Mafia English now? "Geez, I'd hate to see something unfortunate happen" "you need to support me to protect you" "I'll expect your generous donation soon"

#240 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-12 05:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"However, Johnston told the newspaper he didn't advocate the end to programs such as welfare or food stamps."

www.rawstory.com

#241 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 05:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

241 - can't you read??? He doesn't want to get rid of the programs. He just wants to make them akin to starvation.

#242 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-12 05:48 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"He just wants to make them akin to starvation."

where does he say that?

#243 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 05:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

He also said that poor are used as political tools.

does that mean he is calling for rain tomorrow? is that what it means?

at this point, you cheerleaders will take this into god knows what direction.

#244 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 05:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

I merely read what he said and didn't put words in his mouth
you should try it.....once.
#239 | Posted by eberly

Well, okay. Just this once.

"No one has the guts to just let them wither and die. No one who wants votes is willing to call a spade a spade. As long as the Dems can get their votes the enabling will continue. The Republicans need their votes and dare not cut the fiscal tether."

I interpreted that to mean the status quo of not letting them wither and die is not a good one.

You?

#245 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-12 05:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

To lefties, strawmen arguments are like a sport...no...it's like a way of life for you people.

#246 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-12 06:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I interpreted that to mean the status quo of not letting them wither and die is not a good one.

You?"

no. The expression "let the poor wither and die" is what anyone who suggests cutting a single dollar from welfare spending would be accused of doing. nobody is going to wither and die anyway. it's merely an accusation levied at someone.

My god...I wasted time with more fools on this than I should have, clearly.

off to my son's baseball practice.

the 6-7 year olds are smarter than this group.

#247 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 06:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

where does he say that?

#243 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2014-06-12 05:49 PM | FLAG:

feigned stupidity when it comes down to RW politicians sure suggests you're a cheerleader for the RW while you accuse other posters of doing so for the LW.

I thought you read it? Now you don't recall this:

"People simply are not hurting enough, or simply happy enough that they will do nothing. consequently the dole continues."

He wants them to hurt enough to get off the dole. What might that mean? Here we are providing them money for food and shelter. Some health care as well. He is surely advocating that they receive too much of these things. They need less to be free.

He goes on to say:

"there's no motivation to improve your position. It's like training a child, either you enable them or force them out at some point.""

In the end, he wants to cut them off.

#248 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-12 06:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

To lefties, strawmen arguments are like a sport...no...it's like a way of life for you people.

#246 | POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2014-06-12 06:00 PM | FLAG: This is a strawman argument. Please try to argue the point.

#249 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-12 06:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

the 6-7 year olds are smarter than this group.
#247 | Posted by eberly

In that case I recommend you ask your son to explain what "no one has the guts to just let them wither and die" means.

As a follow-up, you could ask him if it suggests that a person with guts would let them wither and die.

#250 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-12 06:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Setting aside Eberly's ridiculous need to parse his comments into non-offensiveness, the simple problem with this guy's argument is that Switzerland has low unemployment and Haiti has very high unemployment. Meanwhile, the people of Haiti are suffering much more than the people of Switzerland. A simple review of economic data reveals his hypothesis is nonsense.

People out of work isn't a sign of laziness. It's a sign of a broken economy.

#251 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-12 06:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

I've noticed its much easier for Republicans to say these things and cut programs so long as those hurt remain faceless stereotypes.

#252 | Posted by Sycophant at 2014-06-12 06:30 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

"there's no motivation to improve your position. It's like training a child, either you enable them or force them out at some point.""

In the end, he wants to cut them off.
#248 | Posted by BruceBanner

That's right, because at the end he says "Sometimes it hurts, but you might give them less to motivate someone to get a job." Nothing about enabling them. All about forcing them out.

#253 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-12 06:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

As a follow-up, you could ask him if it suggests that a person with guts would let them wither and die.

#250 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2014-06-12 06:10 PM | FLAG:

I'd also try taking some friends to the local food bank or orphanage and start proclaiming the same thing. "No one has the guts to just let them wither and die. No one who wants votes is willing to call a spade a spade."

#254 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-12 06:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

People out of work isn't a sign of laziness. It's a sign of a broken economy.

#251 | Posted by snoofy

That's true. Many conservatives would like to kick most people off of social assistance, but we rarely see them talk about finding these people something to do that might provide them a living that's not impoverished.

#255 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-06-12 06:40 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Thanks for the link, Cork.
I'll check it out.
Please note: I didn't claim that welfare was the only cause for the rise, only that it is a contributing factor.
#163 | Posted by JeffJ"

Looks like JeffJ lost his HUGE:

"Cork,
Check the out-of-wedlock birth rate from 1920 - 1964. It's relatively constant. Then look at what happened from 1965-present. It skyrocketed. Now, I am not saying that welfare is the only reason for it, but it's a HUGE contributor.
#130 | Posted by JeffJ"

Lol.

#256 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-06-12 07:07 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 3

Many conservatives would like to kick most people off of social assistance, but we rarely see them talk about finding these people something to do that might provide them a living that's not impoverished.

A new report by the Economic Policy Institute shows that CEO compensation at the largest corporations has ballooned by 937 percent since 1978, when adjusted for inflation. A typical worker's compensation grew a measly 10.2 percent over the same period.

The average CEO compensation at the 350 publicly owned companies with the largest annual revenue in the U.S. last year was $15.2 million, according to the EPI, a left-leaning think tank. That's a 21.7 percent rise since just 2010.

These massive increases are fattening CEOs' wallets while those of average Americans look ever leaner. Of all income groups, it's arguably minimum-wage earners who have suffered the most. The federal minimum wage has declined sharply since the 1960s when adjusted for inflation. If it had kept pace with increases in workplace productivity, the federal minimum wage would be $21.72 an hour -- triple what it is today. www.huffingtonpost.com


We should make all the poor people CEOs. That'll solve the problem.

#257 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-06-12 07:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

it's always ENTERTAINING to listen to people who are all about abortion and assisted suicide and so many other 'death panel' ideas...to lecture us on the meaning and sanctity of life.

I think I'll get my popcorn and read them all again....

#258 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-06-12 07:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

You mean like Esk?

#259 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-06-12 07:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"The discussion thread appeared on the Mad Mac page, which pokes fun at Northwest Indiana politics."

so it was a 'jon stewart' moment....

ah well...let's string him up....

#260 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-06-12 08:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bruce, starvation wasn't mentioned nor implied. You just cried about it.

#261 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 09:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Sure. But only the "open-minded ones"."

Huh? I suggested you are not open-minded because you seem to think all pagans were non-charitable, because of your constant harping about the morality of Christianity, etc. And I welcome all students. I don't denigrate any kid for any reason. I've had awesome talks with many kids of faith, open and serious conversations, more open and serious than those I've had with you. Why? Because they listen and engage. You rinse and repeat.

"I might give your students an accurate description of the Roman arena, and then see how open-mindedly you'd treat any student who said he'd loved to have been on the first row."

Again, huh? What does that even mean? If you're going to question my integrity, have the balls to come right out and say it. Given that you've never seen me teach, you're in quicksand here, pal.

#262 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-12 10:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes tony. We just pay poor people to stop being poor and they'll stop being poor

#263 | Posted by eberly at 2014-06-12 10:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

"it's always ENTERTAINING to listen to people who are all about abortion and assisted suicide and so many other 'death panel' ideas...to lecture us on the meaning and sanctity of life."

You're too funny. Abortion is a nightmare discussion, an argument about which people on either extreme will never ever find common ground. To you, it's baby-killing, which I find absurd (unless you're talking late-term perhaps). But assisted suicide? Assisted SUICIDE? Like I'm dying of a terminal illness and don't want to suffer, so I ask for help to die sooner? I take personal responsibility? Why do you put those two together?

#264 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-12 10:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Golly gee, I appear to have caused quite the snit in some people.

Let's see.... 1. I am either Christian, nor GOP. 2. For those of you quick to say WWJD, let me ask you: did he ask each person to give of their own volition or did he say everyone should give 40% to Rome so that Rome could parcel out aid based on their definition of need?

You all assume I'm some heartless wretch who would abandon a starving baby...but the truth is that I simply don't trust that the government and I share the same opinion regarding who deserves my help....and not everyone does deserve it.

#265 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-06-12 10:19 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Hmm... I agree with his premise get rid of all welfare programs but I would add institute the social credit economic system in their place.

#266 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-06-12 10:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

did he say everyone should give 40% to Rome

He did say render untoward Cesar what is Caesar's.

#267 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-06-12 10:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God."

"The list of examples goes on, and the evidence is clear: Jesus saw the Old Testament as being God's Word, and his attitude toward it was nothing less than total trust. Many people want to accept Jesus, yet they reject a large portion of the Old Testament. Either Jesus knew what he was talking about, or he didn't. If a person believes in Jesus Christ, he should be consistent and believe that the Old Testament and its accounts are correct."

www.bethinking.org

"Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children, and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys." 1 Samuel 15:3

You no longer have the excuse that the old testament can be ignored. jesus thought very highly of the Old Testament.

#268 | Posted by pragmatous at 2014-06-12 11:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

#268

Amazing how many so-called Christians do not even know the basic tenets of their religion.

www.tallahasseegrapevine.com

#269 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-13 12:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

Bruce, starvation wasn't mentioned nor implied. You just cried about it.
#261 | POSTED BY EBERLY AT 2014-06-12 09:55 PM | FLAG:

And the universe was created in seven days.

#270 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-06-13 01:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

Who's responsibility is it to keep farmers alive? Oil companies? Military contractors? Old people? etc. This country does a lot of welfare to certain groups, the least of which are poor people on food stamps. As usual the conservative point of view is "I like socialism for my causes but not yours" and frankly most of that is racially motivates. This dude and people like him is a sick cancer.

#271 | Posted by rawron at 2014-06-13 06:17 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

A united states of don't care. That explains why things are so screwed up. The sheeple have spoken.

#273 | Posted by lduvall at 2014-06-13 06:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Jesus believed that the Old Testament was divinely inspired, the veritable Word of God."

#268 | Posted by pragmatous at

Jesus is God. I'm sorry, I guess that reveals me as not being open-minded.

Jesus changed things up a bit. Well, not just a bit. Not that he didn't respect the Torah, of course.

You're just going to have to read about Him, and this time pay attention.

#274 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-13 06:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

"I might give your students an accurate description of the Roman arena, and then see how open-mindedly you'd treat any student who said he'd loved to have been on the first row."

Again, huh? What does that even mean? If you're going to question my integrity, have the balls to come right out and say it. Given that you've never seen me teach, you're in quicksand here, pal.

#262 | Posted by pragmatist at 2

Oh, come on. Your ability to understand the language becomes interestingly compromised whenever you read a post you don't like.

I'm not questioning your integrity, you silly man. I'm telling you that, like every other human being I know or have ever met, you are open-minded until you decide not to be. After that point you trend to self-righteous.

#275 | Posted by Zed at 2014-06-13 06:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

275: Thanks for clarifying. Had you done it without insulting, it would have been even better. Naturally, I disagree with you. I expect we also have a different definition of "open-minded." And so it goes.

#277 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-13 07:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

265: I wondered why so many assumed you were Christian--or maybe it was that one or two proclaimed it so loudly.

#278 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-13 07:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Jesus is God. I'm sorry, I guess that reveals me as not being open-minded."

Nice try at tweaking. No, it reveals you as being a believer in your particular faith. If you then assert that yours is the only truth, well, you'll be wrong. : ) But closed-minded? (shrug)

#279 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-06-13 07:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

I bet he loves Jesus...

#280 | Posted by tiger150 at 2014-06-13 07:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

Republicans.

Let them wither and die.

Now I mean that only in a "good" way...of course.

After all.. withering and dying is natural. You know.

Like oil spills in the gulf of Mexico.

Or nuclear energy.

#281 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-06-13 12:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Joke of the day...

Q: What died quicker than Rosie Perez's acting career?

A: Compasionate Conservatism....Bada Bing!

I'm here all week folks!
Try the free-range veal!

o.k., o.k., that last dig
about the veal was uncalled for.
I admit...

Don't worry Republicans, we always
knew your compassion was a ruse...

#282 | Posted by earthmuse at 2014-06-13 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"a thousand points of light,
a thousand points of light,
a thousand points of light..."

(picture Eric Cartman whispering this
whilst moving his hands in tiny circles
and wearing a tinfoil hat)

#283 | Posted by earthmuse at 2014-06-13 02:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Frankly, outside of the line "let them wither away and die", I agree with everything this man said.

Don't worry Republicans, we always
knew your compassion was a ruse...

#282 | Posted by earthmuse at 2014-06-13 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Subsidizing 3 generations of a family is not compassion, it is indentured servitude.

#284 | Posted by danv at 2014-06-13 04:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Subsidizing 3 generations of a family is not compassion, it is indentured servitude.
#284 | Posted by danv

Except in the stereotype, the servants don't have to do any work.
If they had to work for it would you still complain?
It's the getting it for free that's the problem, yes?

Your problem is: You don't have a compassionate alternative to counter to what you call "indentured servitude." You'd just kick them off the plantation and see if they sink or swim. How is that an improvement for anything but your short-term tax bill? (I say short term because the long term costs of the unfit people withering and dying will be measured in pounds, while prevention is measured in ounces.)

#285 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-13 04:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Whose responsibility is it to keep them alive?

Christians', at least according to this guy named Jesus.

And not the Jesus who snuck across the border to mow Romney's lawn.

#286 | Posted by northguy3 at 2014-06-13 07:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

And not the Jesus who snuck across the border to mow Romney's lawn.

#286 | POSTED BY NORTHGUY3

No, no, no...that guy's name is Hey-Zeus:

#287 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-06-13 07:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

.... With the Right Motivation..Killing Off the Rich Can Also Be Easily Accomplished!

**** If the Poor People saw Life from the same PERSPECTIVE as the People on Wall St Do...They'd Arm Themselves and Viciously PREY on those who've Viciously Preyed on Them...namely the Wealthy!

#288 | Posted by AntiCadillac at 2014-06-14 03:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

Your problem is: You don't have a compassionate alternative to counter to what you call "indentured servitude." You'd just kick them off the plantation and see if they sink or swim. How is that an improvement for anything but your short-term tax bill? (I say short term because the long term costs of the unfit people withering and dying will be measured in pounds, while prevention is measured in ounces.)

#285 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-13 04:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

If a family, for 3 generations has been on some form of government assistance, that means for 3 generations other people have had money taken from them, forcibly by the government , to subsidize the living of said family. My compassion at this point, is for the taxpayer, the middle class.

Why do I have to be compassionate? Who are to define compassion for me? Who are you to tell me what level and degree of compassion I need to have towards my fellow man?

Honestly, if some family for 3 generations has been subsidized by the government (they may still work), I say sink or swim. Fear is an excellent motivator. In kicking them of the government payroll they may find a inner strength they never knew they had. Save the tax dollars for those that truly need it, like the honestly disabled or elderly.

It seems democrats have this tendency to view the poor as all the same, and never realize many people are poor because of their own bad decisions (I know this first hand) And yes, some on the right tend to think people are poor because they are lazy; which is true sometimes but not always.

#289 | Posted by danv at 2014-06-14 05:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

Whose responsibility is it to keep them alive?
Christians', at least according to this guy named Jesus.
And not the Jesus who snuck across the border to mow Romney's lawn.
#286 | Posted by northguy3 at 2014-06-13 07:25 PM | Reply | Flag

Are you assuming all that are on the right are christian? Are you a christian, or are you using a religion that you do not follow to try an make some point, because I will inform compassion and charity come from the individual not from the government (with a few exceptions).

"Give unto God what is God's, give unto Caesar what is Caesar's"

#290 | Posted by danv at 2014-06-14 05:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

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