Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, June 11, 2014

Columnist George Will writes in his Friday column that being a rape victim at college is a "coveted status." Discussing crime on colleges, Will writes that "when they make victimhood a coveted status that confers privileges, victims proliferate," and then one sentence later writes, "Consider the supposed campus epidemic of rape, a.k.a. 'sexual assault.'" Jessica Valenti responds, "Ah, yes, the perks of being a rape victim! ... It takes a particular kind of ignorance to argue that people who come forward to report being raped in college are afforded benefits of any kind."

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...victims proliferate.

Rape is said to be one of the most underreported crimes in the U.S. Strengthening avenues for women (and men!) who were victims of rape is a good thing.

#1 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-06-09 02:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"...victims proliferate"

YEAH!

and falling asleep behind the wheel is "not always" reckless.

#3 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2014-06-09 03:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

and again, I'm sure this will be filled with rhetoric that WILL is somehow in favor of rape or deems it insignificant...when in fact, he's commenting on the liberal victim industry....an industry that has made more people rich than any lottery.

#5 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-06-09 03:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 3

Rape is said to be one of the most underreported crimes in the U.S. Strengthening avenues for women (and men!) who were victims of rape is a good thing.
#1 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

By whom?

I am of the opinion you need a measuring stick about what rape is.

The example used is quite interesting, and I am not surprised this article only makes reference to it.

A woman had been seeing a man for three months. She thought they had an agreement that they were "just friends", he falls asleep in her bed, and she puts on her PJ's and climbs in with him. He makes a move but is rebuffed, then he makes a move sometime later and she lets him continue. She lied there letting him "finish". Put back on her panties and went to bed. Six weeks later she reports the "rape".

Now I wonder how many women have just lied there letting the man "finish", because they really didn't want to have sex.

I would venture every married woman has gone through this, are we defining this as rape?

If so than every woman has been raped, and men are cretins to be shamed and put in jail.

#6 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-06-09 03:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#6 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-06-09 03:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

The example he used is pretty strange. There are young women on campuses who are taught by exremists that "rape can occur without physical contact". This girl is talking about an incident involving a sexual act and at some point she did say no. So she's not one of these complete lunatics who just redefines the word to suit her agenda.

But on the other hand, it seems odd that anyone who is claiming to have been raped would admit to not resisting at all because she was too tired to be bothered.

There could be more to the story and it may turn out that she was truly a victim. There are much better examples Will could have used to make his point given the lunacy that occurs on some campuses.

I don't believe that any real victim of rape considers it a "coveted status". But there are women who use these expanded definitions of "rape" to claim to have been a victim when that clearly isn't the case.

It is a shame because they do nothing but make life tougher for real victims. If you dishonestly call everything "rape" then normal people become desensitized.

#7 | Posted by Sully at 2014-06-09 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Who hasn't been told "no" once or twice and still gave it the old college try? Obviously I don't mean "no" as in "No!" (Where mace is brandished and she is enraged). I mean "no" as in "I have to put up appearances lest you think I'm a Sandra fluke".

If only she carried some government issued stationairy with an official "no" and had him sign it and get it notarized, then we'd know she meant business.

#8 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-06-09 04:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

For anyone who actually read George Will's piece that is being cited here, you'll know that this is a headline fail.

What he said was that PC in the university system has gone to such an extreme that rape is being re-defined to actions that aren't really rape.

He then went on to point out that, generally speaking, victimhood has become a coveted status on campus.

The headline makes it sound like Will believes that women WANT to be raped. He said nothing of the sort.

#9 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-09 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

But there are women who use these expanded definitions of "rape" to claim to have been a victim when that clearly isn't the case. - Sully

This is precisely the point he was making.

I read his piece and I can understand how it could ruffle some feathers. HuffPo could have challenged his underlying premise but that would have resulted in actual effort and intellectual honesty.

Much easier to make him a caricature of a misogynist.

#10 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-09 05:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

The headline makes it sound like Will believes that women WANT to be raped. He said nothing of the sort.

#9 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Not just the headline JeffJ, the twitter sphere has gone nuts over this.
twitchy.com

#11 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-06-09 06:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"This girl is talking about an incident involving a sexual act and at some point she did say no. So she's not one of these complete lunatics who just redefines the word to suit her agenda." - Sully

I am not claiming lunatic ;) But is saying "no" all it takes, halt stop the presses? Because human relations are so complex. She might say "no" so she feels she's not being a ----, but then gives in because she really would like to consummate the relationship. Is that possible? Are we saying that has never happened? Are we saying now that is rape? This is my problem with the CA law.

The interesting thing is the discontinuity between what people say what "rape" is like, and how horrible it is, which I agree, and what we are given as evidence of rape. It trivializes it hardly seems like the viciousness I would expect from such a physically intense event. But maybe thats the point, but it does make any sort of advance seem like rape...... unfortunately for men.

How do they know who will be offended and who won't.

IMO, the woman should show some form of physical resistance, and/or distancing. Just saying "no" isn't really enough, even a push would suffice at every advance.

#12 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-06-09 06:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I am not claiming lunatic ;) But is saying "no" all it takes, halt stop the presses? Because human relations are so complex. She might say "no" so she feels she's not being a ----, but then gives in because she really would like to consummate the relationship. Is that possible? Are we saying that has never happened? Are we saying now that is rape? This is my problem with the CA law."

I didn't say you were calling her a lunatic. I'm the only one who used that word and I was referring to people who have their own, ridiculously broad definition of "rape".

Based on the story the way it was presented, its hard to tell what happened. Doesn't make sense to me that anyone would lay there and be raped because she just wanted to get to sleep. But maybe there was more to it.

Quite frankly, I think what Whoopie Goldberg said about Roman Polanski some years back was more offensive and pro-rape than what George Will is saying.

#13 | Posted by Sully at 2014-06-09 06:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Men need to be gentlemen first and men second. Rape is always defined by the victim whether you like it or not. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Women always have the Right of First Refusal in every relationship. That is what men hate. Women choose them not the other way around. It takes a real man to understand and accept this truth.

Will is an out of touch ass trying to stay relevant to a world that has passed him by.

#14 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-06-09 07:07 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 4

and completely distorting what this man says for some sort of political point is also a good thing

You have no choice but to agree given the fact your every post accurately reflects this statement.

#15 | Posted by jpw at 2014-06-09 08:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

There likely are women for whom being a rape victim is a 'Coveted Status'.

Thankfully they are a statistical minority.

#16 | Posted by Tor at 2014-06-09 11:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

and completely distorting what this man says for some sort of political point is also a good thing...

#2 | POSTED BY AFKABL2 AT 2014-06-09 03:07 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Oooohhhh the irony.

#17 | Posted by 726 at 2014-06-10 08:23 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Men need to be gentlemen first and men second. Rape is always defined by the victim whether you like it or not. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Women always have the Right of First Refusal in every relationship. That is what men hate. Women choose them not the other way around. It takes a real man to understand and accept this truth.

Will is an out of touch ass trying to stay relevant to a world that has passed him by.

#14 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-06-09 07:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rape isn't always defined by the victim. There's a definition. People charged with rape go to trial. They aren't just sent to jail by their accuser. What you're saying is demonstrably false.

Also, you've never known a man who broke up with his wife/girlfriend? You've never witnessed a completely worthless idiot treat his wife like he owns her while she plays along? The stuff you're saying about relationships is also demonstrably false.

Say what you want about Will but you've got your own reality problems too.

#18 | Posted by Sully at 2014-06-10 09:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sully - women having the Right of First Refusal is a fact. It is also a fact the victim is the one defining rape which was an act that occurred to them.

You are obviously not the man you think you are if you cannot accept these simple truths.

#19 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-06-10 10:29 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Sully - women having the Right of First Refusal is a fact."

If you're saying that they have a choice whether or not to engage in sex acts, then yes I agree. Men also have the same choice. I have never intended to say anything contrary. When you made reference to relationships, I thought you were talking about who persues whom and who has more power in the relationship. That can work either way.

"It is also a fact the victim is the one defining rape which was an act that occurred to them."

That is not a fact. It remains demonstrably false. "Rape" has a meaning. The crime of "rape" falls under specific parameters. Its not up to any indvidual to come up with his/her own definition of what "rape" is.

#20 | Posted by Sully at 2014-06-10 11:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

"and completely distorting what this man says for some sort of political point"

Will said GW Bush was going to be Reagan 3. In fact, I cant think of a thing he has ever been right about.
And his toupee is ridiculously horrendous.

#21 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2014-06-10 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Sully - women always choose their mate. After she chooses (or refuses) the male is welcomed or he may try again or move on. The woman always chooses.

Rape is a claim made against another party that may or may not be legal in definition but the initial claim is always made by the victim.

You belong to the "HE-Man Women Haters Club" don't you.

#22 | Posted by Prolix247 at 2014-06-10 05:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Don't!
Stop!

Don't stop!

#23 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-06-10 05:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Sully - women always choose their mate. After she chooses (or refuses) the male is welcomed or he may try again or move on. The woman always chooses."

Are you literally unaware of the fact that at times women want to be with men who aren't interesting in them personally?

"Rape is a claim made against another party that may or may not be legal in definition but the initial claim is always made by the victim."

So you're saying someone always makes an accusation and it may or may not be true? Sure, yeah I agree.

"You belong to the "HE-Man Women Haters Club" don't you."

I've said nothing that is anti-woman here, Scarecrow.

#24 | Posted by Sully at 2014-06-10 07:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

If this doesn't finally put a stake through the heart of George Will's misogynistic career then what will?

#25 | Posted by danni at 2014-06-10 10:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Will's point can be demonstrated very easily simply by citing one of several cases where a woman has claimed to be raped (or subjected to misogynistic abuse on social media) only to have been outed as having fabricated the entire event simply for the air time. Duke Lacrosse, anyone? Tawana Brawley? Sara Ylen?

www.weeklystandard.com

While Kanin has cautioned against generalizing from his research, his conclusion that "false rape accusations are not uncommon" is supported by other evidence. Some years ago, a Washington Post investigation in Virginia and Maryland found that nearly one in four rape reports in 1990-91 were rejected as unfounded, and many of the women in those cases admitted they had lied when the newspaper contacted them. In several surveys of prosecutors and law enforcement officials, estimates of the share of rape complaints that turn out to be false have ranged from one in eight to one in five.

Interesting and germane Youtube video (caution, strong language): www.youtube.com

I find it fascinating that the same people who oppose the death penalty because there is a risk an innocent man might be executed (which does occasionally happen) are immediately on the side of a woman who accuses a man of rape - in their eyes, the accused is guilty until proven innocent.

#26 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-06-11 09:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

I can't stand george will because he is a fascist hack, but I seriously doubt that he's a misogynist.

I guess I'm going to have to be the 'bad guy' and say this but: most rape on college campus are lies. There I said it. It is true. Most of this 'epidemic' happens when 'yes' becomes 'no' after the fact.

Does college rape happen? Of course it does. The truth is that what is really on display here is not male aggressiveness, but rather societal sexual hypocrisy. A woman who screws around is a considered a ----; whereas a man who does so is a stud. i.e. women attempting to protect their sexual currency.

#27 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-11 09:54 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

I would venture every married woman has gone through this, are we defining this as rape?

If a woman says "no," it means no. If she said no and he ignored it, that's date rape. If she didn't actually say no, then it's a false accusation.

We should be evolving to a point where men know that if there's any doubt about consent, even a slim doubt, the right course of action is to stop. If she said "no," if she was a little drunk and expressing mixed feelings, if she was incoherently drunk, if you are drunk and not thinking clearly, stop.

And the same goes for women too.

Murky consent situations in dating and marital relationships victimize rape victims and people falsely accused of rape.

#28 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-11 10:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

... most rape on college campus are lies. There I said it. It is true. Most of this 'epidemic' happens when 'yes' becomes 'no' after the fact. ...

Unless you have facts to back that up, your statement is incredibly misogynist. Given the prevalence of rape in our society, the notion that "most" date rapes on college are false accusations is extremely unlikely. Most women would not put themselves through the trauma of reporting a rape unless they believed they were, in fact, raped.

#29 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-11 10:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

#29

Unless you have facts to back that up, your statement is incredibly misogynist.

Given the fact that men can also be and are raped, his statement is not necessarily misogynistic.

Given the prevalence of rape in our society, the notion that "most" date rapes on college are false accusations is extremely unlikely.

You scold Shawn for overstating and not having facts to back up his statement, in a sentence in which you employ an overstatement and a statement not backed with facts?

Most women would not put themselves through the trauma of reporting a rape unless they believed they were, in fact, raped.

That's probably what all those talking heads were thinking when the Duke Lacrosse team was accused. Hey, I BELIEVE I'm smart and good-looking, but that doesn't mean it's true. The difference is that I'm not going to ruin someone's life by claiming it to be so. That cannot be said of someone accused of a rape they didn't commit. How many states leave the name of accused rapists on their roll of sex offenders even if acquitted?

#30 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-06-11 11:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

Given the fact that men can also be and are raped, his statement is not necessarily misogynistic.

That makes little sense, since his comment alleging false accusations was quite obviously about women.

That's probably what all those talking heads were thinking when the Duke Lacrosse team was accused.

That miscarriage of justice happened because of an out-of-control prosecutor who has since been disbarred, and quite deservedly so.

#31 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-11 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

That miscarriage of justice happened because of an out-of-control prosecutor who has since been disbarred, and quite deservedly so.

#31 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-11 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let's be honest: That prosecutor probably doesn't engage in misconduct if he wasn't being egged on by the national media.

Still mostly his fault but to dismiss the circus that surrounded that case is wrong.

#32 | Posted by Sully at 2014-06-11 01:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let's be honest: That prosecutor probably doesn't engage in misconduct if he wasn't being egged on by the national media.

Maybe, but what's the national media ever going to do when an overzealous prosecutor is claiming a spectacular crime? The allegation circles the globe while the truth is still getting its shoes on.

#33 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-11 01:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

#31 The prosecutor went out of bounds, yes, but the first crime committed was by the woman who claimed she was raped. Everything else hinged upon that act.

#34 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-06-11 02:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Unless you have facts to back that up, your statement is incredibly misogynist. Given the prevalence of rape in our society, the notion that "most" date rapes on college are false accusations is extremely unlikely. Most women would not put themselves through the trauma of reporting a rape unless they believed they were, in fact, raped.

-------

No it is not misogynist to admit what has been going on since the days of the cavemen. Just as it was, and in many cases still is, acceptable to scapegoat groups without political power for all of societies problems, it has been the case that women have been forced to lie about biological functions. Men too really, but unlike the women, we are not ostracized for it. There is nothing misogynistic about it any more than it is racist to claim that black people and Latinos have been blamed for things in the USA that they have nothing to do with for hundreds of years by a mostly white male power structure.

Am I saying that being male is the new 'black'? I certainly wouldn't directly compare them, but any man who has been to family court cannot be faulted for it briefly coming to mind.

#35 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-11 06:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

The example in Will's editorial, as the example* given by Camille Paglia which villianized her with feminists, dilutes the definition of rape, ultimately harming prosecution of real rape. (*college girl goes to frat party, gets drunk, goes upstairs with guy, gets in bed with him, then says "no" which is not taken seriously.) Will is also challenging the statistics as being sensationally high, i.e., citing two problems with semantics in the crime.

#36 | Posted by kenx at 2014-06-11 06:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

That is because Camille Paglia is right. And while I think George Will is almost the worst person to cite on almost anything, a stopped watch is occasionally accurate; especially when he quotes someone far better than himself.

Paglia was thrown out of the feminist movement for essentially saying that a ------ is not a princess pedestal.

#37 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-06-11 07:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

why do men consistently try to discuss rape? it's like men discussing abortion...."well it can't happen to me, so let me put my man pants on and discuss how it would be "if" it would...

nah...it would be similar to me saying you're intelligent

#38 | Posted by drewinnj at 2014-06-11 08:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why do men discuss something that has/could possibly affect them?
Is that what you're going with, drewl? Are you sure?

You're the reason we aren't allowed to insult the intelligence of others.

#39 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-06-11 09:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

#39 Is that what you're going with, drewl?

drewl?

You're the reason we aren't allowed to insult the intelligence of others.

hahaha...

..can't make this up...

#40 | Posted by drewinnj at 2014-06-11 09:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

drewl?
You're the reason we aren't allowed to insult the intelligence of others.
hahaha...
..can't make this up...

#40 | POSTED BY DREWINNJ

This site has a poster named 'Drewl' and the guy - I am being kind here - isn't smart.

If he didn't read your name carefully and thought you were 'Drewl' then including an insult into his response to your post would be a no-brainer. 'Drewl' is pretty easy to beat up on.

#41 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-06-11 09:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

The name fits.
What kind of simpleton wonders why a group directly involved in the accusation/commission of rapes, or the creation of a fetus/possible child would discuss the subjects?
How emasculated must you be to deem such subjects off limits?

#42 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-06-11 09:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

The name fits.
What kind of simpleton wonders why a group directly involved in the accusation/commission of rapes, or the creation of a fetus/possible child would discuss the subjects?
How emasculated must you be to deem such subjects off limits?

#42 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

You're the reason we aren't allowed to insult the intelligence of others.

"that's gold, Jerry...gold"

#43 | Posted by drewinnj at 2014-06-11 10:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'd refrain explaining/defending that waft at #38 if I were you too.

#44 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-06-11 10:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Before i retired from my job in Records with a large urban police station, i & my co-workers worked on many protective orders ordering cessation of family violence. (Getting all the information we needed from the city court which issues the orders was like pulling teeth.) The real frustration we had over the course of years was seeing SOME of the same victims abused by the same cretins over & over & over. There comes a point in SOME marriages / relationships where if you get beat or killed it's your own damn fault, for not leaving the beast you married or live with.

There are yellow, orange & red flags that the person you are interested in or dating is an abuser. Good looks and the social stigma of being single are so powerful, both men & women fall into the trap of permitting violence against themselves to happen and to continue.

#45 | Posted by kenx at 2014-06-12 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't understand and I'm deeply troubled that people think rape is a good thing. It's like saying being brutally attacked is a good thing.

#46 | Posted by pragmatous at 2014-06-12 07:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

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