Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, May 30, 2014

Richard Martinez, the grieving father of Isla Vista massacre victim Christopher Michaels-Martinez, told politicians to stop calling him to offer their sympathy. "I don't care about your sympathy. I don't give a s--- that you feel sorry for me," he said during an extensive interview with the Washington Post, his face flushed as tears rolled down. "Get to work and do something. I'll tell the president the same thing if he calls me. Getting a call from a politician doesn't impress me."

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At a memorial service organized by the University of California-Santa Barbara, Martinez asked the crowd of 20,000 to stand and shout "so loud they will hear you in Washington. Say it with me, 'Not one more!'"

In an interview, the hunter and former military policeman said he's angry at the NRA, saying he has no understanding for the group's position on automatic and semiautomatic weapons after a series of mass murders involving such weapons.

"I'm angry with the leadership of the NRA who always want to characterize this as if it's a lone madman. That it's an act of nature we have to tolerate," he said. "I am angered by how they have worked to normalize this."

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Hasn't Drudge already beat this horse?

#1 | Posted by rearendhat at 2014-05-30 08:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

His solutions are astray, but this mans antipathy toward the sycophant fop circus is understandable and justified.

Violence and economic inequality are highly causal, and no one in this parade of feckless back scratching prostitutes is politically motivated in the slightest toward addressing this fact.

#2 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-30 08:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Mr. Martinez makes perfect sense, if our Congress and our Legislatures can't do anything to protect our children then really what good are they?
This is why we have a Congress and read the Constitution, it does not grant an authority to the SC to nullify laws. The founders believed that the people should decide, that's why they created Congress and especially the House of Representatives; public opinion polls are overwhelmingly in favor of limiting the right to buy guns by CRAZY people, these are tragedies brought on by the NRA and the gun lobby, two of the most evil groups America has ever confronted. The NRA is pure, unadulterated, evil. Be proud if you are a member, the mourning parents don't share your pride.

#3 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-30 09:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

Because 'crazy people' historically always is politically motivated. i.e. it is used to deny weapons to the powerless. Rulers have always been motivated by their own power, nor concern of the welfare of their serfs. And if you are anyone else here are discombobulated enough to believe that the American empire is any less forceful then it is you who are hopelessly naive.

As I stated above the real issue is always socioeconomic. And neither clique of boot licking parasites has any political inclination to disobey their corporate oyabun.

#4 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-30 10:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Poor Richard remembers every day he wakes up that his child died from a failure of the government.

#5 | Posted by Tor at 2014-05-30 10:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

"As I stated above the real issue is always socioeconomic. "

Except that the killer wasn't poor, he was actually quite privileged. NO, WE NEED the psychological community to have the power to deny the right of people to own guns.

#6 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-30 10:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

"As I stated above the real issue is always socioeconomic."

Great. Ignore what he said in his epitath which was totally not socioeconomic, and ignore the fact that it had more to do with issues involving SEX, and the fact that he was, apparently, not attractive to the opposite sex. This was certainly a crime that had nothing to do with economics but more to do with rejection.
That you don't understand that makes me worry about you.

#7 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-30 10:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

You are deliberately misrepresenting what my statements. I did not claim that the alleged offender was or is 'poor'. I stated, "Violence and economic inequality are highly causal".

Yes, and the priesthood used to serve the same function: we NEED to keep the heretics in check!

You are obfuscating.

#8 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-30 10:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

I stated, "Violence and economic inequality are highly causal".

And in this episode that was completely wrong. Don't blame me, blame reality. Violence can be a reaction to poverty but it isn't usually, it is usually a reaction to the knowledge that violence gains the violent the ice cream cone that they want.

#9 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-30 10:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Poor Richard remembers every day he wakes up that his child died

The news is reporting he got shot by a luntic. From all accounts I've heard, that seems to be the case.

#10 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 11:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

And more obfuscation from you. The oil is running out, and with it goes most of the industrial age. Claiming that because the participants in this particular even are 'not poor' is spurious to this fact. Society is economically constrained, and all but the most historically imbecilic know that violence increases during those periods(rats in cage).

In short, soon there will not be enough gold in all the world to imprison the adversely effected; acutely and otherwise, as in this case. I could list examples, but clearly you are not in the least bit interested; for they would not suit your police state oriented machinations.

#11 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-30 11:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is why we have a Congress and read the Constitution, it does not grant an authority to the SC to nullify laws.

I find it immensely funny, and the pinnacle of hypocrisy, that you invoke originalism, textualism, Scalia, when advocating the polar opposite, "a living constitution."

Do you seriously believe that the 56 lawyers that signed onto Article III did not know that grant of jurisdiction did not include the power to invalidate unconstitutional Article I enactments?

#12 | Posted by et_al at 2014-05-30 11:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

NO, WE NEED the psychological community to have the power to deny the right of people to own guns.

Damn, the ignorance is palpable. Psychotherapists in CA have that power, links are on another thread, click on my user page.

#13 | Posted by et_al at 2014-05-30 11:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Psychotherapists in CA have that power,

Not in sufficient measure to have disarmed Mr. Rodger.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-31 01:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

I'm sorry for Mr. Martinez's loss, but it's pretty well established that absolutely nothing can be done to prevent this sort of thing.

click on my user page. #13 | Posted by et_al at 2014-05-30 11:40 PM
Don't fall for it Danni! He says that to all the girls!

#15 | Posted by censored at 2014-05-31 01:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

When he makes the steep into asking for gun control then he is taking away our rights and we have the right to criticize him.

He is wrong we don't need any new laws. His soon would be dead even if guns were banned because the guy was also stabbing people. His son would have been stabbed.

New gun control laws would not have helped his son.

#16 | Posted by tmaster at 2014-05-31 02:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

His soon would be dead even if guns were banned because the guy was also stabbing people. His son would have been stabbed.

Drive by stabbings... this makes sense to the mind of the gun nut.

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-31 02:46 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

"Nothing can be done..."

Until we recover our families. Our natural protection against the ravages of isolation. Isolated from our natural families, we are vulnerable to an open-loop feedback condition. Aberrant thoughts and emotions, which we all experience at one time or another, produce signals which are received by our family members, who then intervene to modulate our momentary distresses. The mother, for instance, knows when the son is troubled, and comforts him. The disturbing mental activity is balanced. Without this feedback, the distress signal increases in amplitude until a component fails, resulting in irreparable damage.

Maybe later: why

#18 | Posted by TrainingForTool at 2014-05-31 03:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

310M population will always result in aberrant behavior and homicides by a few. Giving up our freedoms and rights so politicians can claim accomplishment is not a solution.

#19 | Posted by Robson at 2014-05-31 08:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Nothing can be done..."

False.

'Nothing can be done' is incorrect. Something can be done. The fact that what that something can do will not achieve perfection is a false reason to continue to do nothing.

I'm not playing the old "if only one person is saved it is worth while" card,
but I am saying that we do not expect any of our societal protections to be 100% effective. We have many laws which fall short of perfection, but that doesn't stop our society to try to regulate real and present dangers.

I saw a guy blow through a stop sign yesterday. There is nothing we can do to prevent it, so I suppose we should get rid of all stop signs, huh.

Never let the "nothing can be done" card to go unchallenged.

#20 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2014-05-31 10:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

Never let the "nothing can be done" card to go unchallenged.
#20 | POSTED BY OLDWHISKEYSOUR

But that is the nihilists (they seem to call themselves "conservatives" these days) default position. They don't have any solutions because they don't believe in government solutions to anything.

#21 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-05-31 10:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

"NO, WE NEED the psychological community to have the power to deny the right of people to own guns."

And knives.

Roger killed as many with knives as he did with guns.

So let's not forget to include knives in this discussion as well.

#22 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-31 11:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

Roger killed as many with knives as he did with guns.

True, but he got his roommates by surprise. He wasn't going to be able to roam the streets of Isla Vista killing random young people with knives. If you're tired of runty little nuts committing mass murder in America, the place to start controlling them is to limit their access to guns.

#23 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-31 11:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

Roger killed as many with knives as he did with guns.

#22 | Posted by madbomber

That argument is BS. He also wounded 13 other people with the guns. I'm not sure why the three in the apartment didn't overpower him, but I doubt if knife attacks result in death nearly as often as attacks by firearm.

A 9mm is designed with one specific purpose.. to inflict damage upon people. A knife is a basic kitchen tool.

#24 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-31 11:59 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Hasn't Drudge already beat this horse?"

Yeah...and I'm really anxious to get back to the really important topics. I hope everyone is aware the Redskins STILL haven't changed their name.

#25 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-05-31 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"They don't have any solutions because they don't believe in government solutions to anything."

Not so fast. We conservatives strongly approve of government solutions. Our big government has done a wonderful job with solutions across the board, especially solutions by THIS administration.

#26 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-05-31 12:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm not sure why the three in the apartment didn't overpower him ...

He had a hammer, two machetes and a knife. It sounds as if he took them by surprise.

#27 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-31 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

It may indeed be possible to solve problems such as this, but we will never solve it by making broad, simplistic, unreasoned generalizations. Tragic events cause us to react emotionally rather than rationally. Mr. Martinez, as a lawyer, likely is aware of the legal adage that 'tough cases make bad law'.

The problem is a societal one. It is multi-faceted and it involves how we view freedom and what we are willing to allow in the name of freedom as far as behavior goes. It also involves our desire to find a scapegoat in almost every situation rather than reviewing the available facts. We treat facts as things to be manipulated to fit our passions rather than truths that can inform our choices.

Harvard University did a study in 2013 that concluded that gun bans did not correlate to reduced murder rates. Of course we have not heard much about that study from the media. One amazing sentence from that study is this, "the determinants of murder and suicide are basic social, economic, and cultural factors, not the prevalence of some form of deadly mechanism." Wow! People really do kill people... (Read the whole study here: www.law.harvard.edu)

Look at the list of spree/rampage killings throughout the world and you will see that in places where guns are less available, people still manage to kill large numbers of people if they are determined enough. They use poison, bombs, fire, they hijack planes and even in countries with draconian gun laws, criminals find ways to procure guns.

If we banned guns tomorrow the people who are twisted enough to want to kill multiple people could quite easily find ways to do so. Until we fix our society of absentee/hands off parenting and a failure to demand that people be held responsible for their actions we don't have much chance of fixing what is wrong no matter how many gun laws we pass and enforce.

#28 | Posted by frugalscott at 2014-05-31 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

The trouble is not the gun, the knife, the vehicle used as a weapon. These are flaming bits of debris, ejected from the pyre that was our natural society. Our world is an artificial construct designed by a metaphysical entity known as Mammon. Self interest, at odds with altruism. We all gotta eat, but we don't have to eat each other. Mammon exists, as an invisible mindless entity, powered by sophism. Alien concepts, implanted in our social conventions, supporting a ziggurat of superficially valid logic. We search the towering ziggurat, desperately seeking the construction error, making sure the bricks are all squared and solid. The problem, though, is not the way the bricks are arranged; the problem is in the foundation. The foundation is undermined by countless tunnels, each aiming for its ulterior motive, heedless of the chaos caused by shifting the once solid foundation. Usury schemes. Politicians, obviously each building their personal empires, at the expense of all. War industries, manufacturing flesh fumes and blood in exchange for gold. Corporations at odds with their constituent workers, the head constantly striving to starve the body. Our psyches are now, mostly, accretions of implanted thoughts which we mistake for our own.
'Children are a liability' 'Old people are a burden' 'It takes two incomes to raise a family' 'Women and men are interchangeable' 'Children must leave their families to be alone' Not so long ago, we knew better.

#29 | Posted by TrainingForTool at 2014-05-31 01:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

"In an interview, the hunter and former military policeman said he's angry at the NRA, saying he has no understanding for the group's position on automatic and semiautomatic weapons after a series of mass murders involving such weapons."

If he had bought a revolver, your kid would still be dead.

#30 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-31 03:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Mr. Martinez, as a lawyer, likely is aware of the legal adage that "tough cases make bad law."

It sounds like he knows that, because he's laying the groundwork for future action while gathering information:


Martinez said he is consulting with experts to help develop a clear message and a specific course of action that the public can undertake with the aim of preventing similar tragedies in the future.

"There's no playbook for this. We don't know what we are doing," he said. "I just know I have to keep fighting until something changes. The most precious thing in the world has been taken from me. What else can I do?"


Look at the list of spree/rampage killings throughout the world and you will see that in places where guns are less available, people still manage to kill large numbers of people if they are determined enough.

True, but guns make it considerably easier to mass murder than knives and bombs. They're so easy to acquire here that aspiring mass murderers don't have to resort to any other means.

A lot of spree killers want the direct experience of killing people. Guns make that far easier than knives, and they can be used by physical weaklings. Some of these nuts might not want to kill from a distance with a bomb.

Making guns more difficult for mentally ill people to acquire will deter some of these killers. That is a worthy goal to pursue.

This would not impact the gun rights of normal citizens in the least.

#31 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-31 03:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

and nothing is said about the knife victims.....

but we know the truth. The issue is about the NRA. Get rid of, or reduce the influence of the NRA, and the most successful ,anti-liberal..pro American group of people are marginalized allowing even more liberal anti-constitutionalists to further throw us in the dumpster of world power/influence. EVERY TIME, the issue is the NRA and it always will be. until the liberals can come up with a way to RAPE THE NRA like this lying potus did to the Tea Party. Then, they'll have another "phoney issue' to further LIE about..

#33 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-05-31 05:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah, let's never forget that the NRA is the real victim here, not the victims of gun massacres.

#34 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-31 05:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you're tired of runty little nuts committing mass murder in America, the place to start controlling them is to limit their access to guns.

You mean the place to apply the feel-good bandaid with little dinosaurs or trucks on it is to limit their access to guns.

You can't hide the use of these evens as political footballs for those looking to limit guns period. They'd be making the same demands even if these events weren't occurring.

#38 | Posted by jpw at 2014-06-01 11:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

He had a hammer, two machetes and a knife. It sounds as if he took them by surprise.

The excuse making to focus on the minority killed by guns betrays your using this as a political football.

Sorry, but the only objective conclusion is this guy was a cracked out nut. Stop cherry picking what "solutions" you'd prefer.

#39 | Posted by jpw at 2014-06-01 11:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

They'd be making the same demands even if these events weren't occurring.

Instead of talking about some vague "they" who are always trying to take your guns away -- thank you NRA for stoking that paranoia -- we're having a discussion about Richard Martinez. He's the latest person to be dragged into this debate because a loved one was slaughtered by a mass murderer with a gun. A 60-year-old man had an only son who was a gifted, college student about to moving up to law school, to follow his mom and dad in that profession. Now Richard has no child. There will be no grandchildren.

Why did that happen? A young person who was deranged for years had guns. Some people in his life even suspected he had them (ex-roommates), but this was treated as normal and tolerable.

You always accuse people of playing politics when all they're doing is reacting to current events. A gun massacre in America is always a current event. I don't think Martinez is alone in wanting this madness to stop.

The Second Amendment is not a suicide pact. If enough Americans demand that guns be harder to obtain, particularly for the mentally ill, it will happen.

#40 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-01 12:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hands Off Those Gun Laws, Judges

The NRA isn't just blocking new gun laws -- it's going after laws elected representatives have already passed. Judges are being tempted to intervene, but they should stay as far away as possible.

I'm not an expert on gun control; I don't know the best way to stop the horrific gun crimes that traumatize communities, destroy families, and leave lives hopelessly disfigured. But I am an expert on constitutional law and I know what role judges should play in second-guessing legislative efforts to stop these tragedies: almost none.

www.thedailybeast.com

#41 | Posted by Corky at 2014-06-01 01:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

#41

Too bad the good professor only describes part of the test to be applied when the SC faces constitutional questions. He thinks only "rational basis" should apply. Then acknowledges the need for "compelling interest," part of the "strict scrutiny" test, when is suits his need and conveniently omits the second half of the test, the disputed law must be "narrowly tailored" to address only that compelling interest and no more. When he figures out how bans on guns or ammunitions are "narrowly tailored" to address the compelling legislative interest in preventing massacres he may have a point.

#42 | Posted by et_al at 2014-06-01 04:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

#40 | Posted by rcade

Well God damned, where to start?

we're having a discussion about Richard Martinez.

Nice, going the Goatman route and claiming only a singular person can be discussed in the context of the topic at hand because they're the one mentioned. I guess you'll forgo all mentions of Reagan and Iran/Contra in the prisoner release thread? After all, it is about Obama.

He's the latest person to be dragged into this debate because a loved one was slaughtered by a mass murderer with a gun. A 60-year-old man had an only son who was a gifted, college student about to moving up to law school, to follow his mom and dad in that profession. Now Richard has no child. There will be no grandchildren.

I know you're not writing actual news, but [...] this post just drips bias.

Slaughtered? Really? "Mass murderer with a gun"? Really? The fact that he killed most of his victims with a weapon other than a gun will just be swept under the rug in the name of biased bull[...] and ends justify the means, feel-good "solutions"?

It sucks the kid died, but you're yet again using him as a political football by pulling the typical BS with sanctimonious descriptions painting the picture of some stellar angel well above and beyond any other existing in American today.

Why did that happen? A young person who was deranged for years had guns.

And yet the guns never caused a problem until now and he killed more people with weapons other than the guns. Sounds to me that the bigger problem is he was just f'in crazy.

But hey, that's not the axe you want to grind so let's just ignore it and disingenuously present the situation in such a way to conveniently support your position. Sort of insulting for the 4 people killed by weapons other than guns, isn't it? Their deaths apparently mean nothing if they can't be used to attack the NRA.

You always accuse people of playing politics when all they're doing is reacting to current events.

I accuse people of playing politics when they selectively use information. This case happens to be particularly egregious in that regard, hence it irks me even more than usual.

#43 | Posted by jpw at 2014-06-02 12:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

I know you're not writing actual news, but [...] this post just drips bias.

[...] What you call "bias" is my opinion. An opinion is naturally biased. I am not going to stop having one because you graded it poorly.

I never said he didn't kill people with weapons other than guns. But when nutbag after nutbag uses guns to mass murder, a lot of Americans are going to want to take action to make it harder for nutbags to use guns to mass murder.

Since this nutbag used a gun, I'm talking about nutbags with guns. I don't see why that triggers your urge to protect the NRA, but I find that concern utterly irrelevant. The NRA is a depraved organization whose true purpose is to help gun manufacturers sell as many guns as possible, no matter the consequences.

#44 | Posted by rcade at 2014-06-02 11:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

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