Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, May 30, 2014

Eric K. Shinseki resigned Friday as secretary of veterans affairs, taking responsibility for a scandal in the VA health-care system over excessive waiting times and coverups of what he called "systemic" problems. President Barack Obama announced that he accepted Shinseki's resignation after agreeing with his embattled VA secretary that he had become a "distraction" as the department struggles to deal with a huge increase of veterans in need of care after more than a decade of war overseas.

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goatman

 

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

I don't suppose it's a surprise, though

#1 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 11:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

I'm not surprised. Obama continues to throw anyone politically damaging under the bus. They just had to wait until Frida so it wouldn't be reported on until they can come up with the new talking points. I predict a steady dose of Bush's wars and this was going on before Obama even though Obama criticized Bush on the VA and vowed to fix it. Like everything else Obama swore to change he's failed.

#2 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-30 12:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rick resigned? Hmmmmmm

I disagree Dalton, this isn't a throw a guy under the bus move. Ricky didn't administer the VA well. It wasn't completely Obama's fault.

#3 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-30 12:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

VA budget increased 40% since 2009, so money wasn't the problem.

Obama said he would fix the problems while campaigning.

My question to you ChiefCutAndPaste, what did Obama do to fix it?

#8 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-30 12:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

VA budget increased 40% since 2009, so money wasn't the problem.
#8 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

I think you scared Chief away with that one. A liberal can't open their mouth with out saying, If we had better funding.

"At the end of the day, when we have increased the resources upward of 50 percent over the course of the last several years, there is something in the management and the bureaucracy that is causing this to happen, and that's why heads should roll," he said.

Between 2003 and 2013, VA funding increased 131 percent, from $59 billion to $136 billion, while the number of veterans receiving treatment increased 27 percent, from 4.4 million to 5.6 million, Bloomberg News reported. The number of Priority 1 veterans with the greatest level of disability doubled to 1.3 million during that time.

www.news-journalonline.com

#9 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-05-30 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bottom line they had enough money to give out bonuses for cooking the books.

#10 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-30 12:46 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The 71-year-old former Army chief of staff, who held the VA secretary's job longer than any of his predecessors, was widely admired for a 38-year military career that cost him half of his foot in Vietnam.

Shinseki took a number of actions in response to the reports of mismanagement, including placing three officials from the Phoenix VA on administrative leave and moving to offer veterans who endured waits of more than 30 days for appointments the option of seeking private care at the department's expense.

But lawmakers from both parties grew impatient as the investigation grew to 42 VA facilities, up from the previously reported 26. Critics argued that the VA needed a fresh face at the top to restore confidence in the department, which operates 1,700 hospitals and clinics handling 85 million appointments a year.

Rep. Jeff Miller (R-Fla), chairman of the House Veterans' Affairs Committee, said it was appropriate for Shinseki to take responsibility, but the lawmaker said there were others in the VA who also should be blamed.

"Those who surrounded Shinseki shielded him from crucial facts and hid bad news reports," the lawmaker said

www.latimes.com

#13 | Posted by Corky at 2014-05-30 01:17 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"My question to you ChiefCutAndPaste, what did Obama do to fix it?"

Not enough, obviously. But let's not pretend, vets have always been treated poorly.

I guess the VA wasn't part of the hopey changey thing?

#14 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

I guess the VA wasn't part of the hopey changey thing?

#14 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag

Oh no it was. Obama campaigned saying he would fix the VA just like he was going to heal the Earth.

#15 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-30 01:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

This issue is about more than the resignation of Secretary Eric Shinseki; it's about changing the structure and culture that have pervaded the VA for decades. The secretary is not the root of the problem; he's simply the face of it. We need to modernize an outdated agency, bring it into the 21st century and ensure that the VA is better equipped to treat the health and psychological issues that are unique to our veterans.

www.cnn.com

Excellent article written by a Republican with more than half a brain.

#16 | Posted by Corky at 2014-05-30 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"When 400,000 veterans are stuck on a waiting list for claims, we need a new sense of urgency," said Sen Obama in 07: www.presidency.ucsb.edu

#17 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-30 01:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Scandal, controversy and veterans care in the United States have gone hand-in-hand for virtually as long as there's been a republic.

After the Revolutionary War, for instance, payments promised by Congress to disabled veterans were left up to the states, and only a few thousand of those who served ever received anything, according to the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Here's a time line of the many scandals the department and its predecessors have faced:

www.cnn.com

After the Revolutionary War... Obama's Fault, obviously.

#18 | Posted by Corky at 2014-05-30 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

It's pretty clear that the government cannot run a health care system. All the evidence is quoted above. They have a long history of mis-management.

#19 | Posted by mysterytoy at 2014-05-30 01:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

I do believe that the secret waiting list idea was Obama's.

#20 | Posted by mysterytoy at 2014-05-30 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

"And chiefmoses goes all the way bck back to 1921"

Usually in the process of analysis one starts at the beginning, (aka Congress creates the Veterans Bureau to administer assistance to World War I veterans).
But what would you know about stuff like that. You are just an internet harpy

#21 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2014-05-30 02:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Chief Tut: Don't cut and paste entire articles here. It's a violation of copyright. Link to the article instead and provide a short excerpt.

#23 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-30 02:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sacrificial lamb of the week. Whatever. Just so long as the very real and very outrageous failings of the VA are actually addressed.

#24 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-05-30 02:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

My question to you ChiefCutAndPaste, what did Obama do to fix it?

#8 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

You have to know about it first.

VA care has improved over the last 7 years but it was a small number of high priority patients that were left out in the cold.

I do enjoy how you blame the president for the actions of hospital administrators who are way way below on the chain of command and have been in their positions for years.

SO what have the Republicans done?

#25 | Posted by Sycophant at 2014-05-30 02:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sacrificial lamb of the week. Whatever. Just so long as the very real and very outrageous failings of the VA are actually addressed.

#24 | Posted by moder8

Shinseki might be the first 2x sacrificial lamb.

The first time he "retired" was after he dared tell the world that iraq would require a lot more troops than Dubya, cheney, and rumsfeld were saying. They instantly said he was wrong and he was out weeks later.

Turns out he was totally right.

I think him being wrongfully removed the first time is the reason it took so long the second time.

#26 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-30 02:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

SO what have the Republicans done?

#25 | Posted by Sycophant

Besides blocking increased funding?

#27 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-30 02:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

"You have to know about it first." - Synchophant

He campaigned on it, so he knew something was amiss... so again what has he done to fix it?

"I do enjoy how you blame the president for the actions of hospital administrators who are way way below on the chain of command and have been in their positions for years." - Synco

You don't read very well do you.

See #3.

I blame Ricky mostly, but Obama for campaigning on fixing the VA and hasn't even with more money.

#28 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-30 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

SO what have the Republicans done?

#25 | POSTED BY SYCOPHANT

Tell me which ones campaigned with the promise they would fix the VA and I'll try to find out for you.

#29 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 03:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

I do enjoy how you blame the president for the actions of hospital administrators who are way way below on the chain of command and have been in their positions for years.

But the proggies had no problem laying the blame for the problems at Walter Reed on Bush. So why shouldn't ----- bear the blame for the problems at the VA -- especially since he promised to fix them!

#30 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 03:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Personally I think Shinseki just pulled one over on the White House. Enough of this story has not come out yet to look for a scapegoat. It would have been in the White House's best interest to let this thing go until it got hot and then fire Shinseki on a Monday so the pet media could spin it for a week. Now who's going to take one for the team as this thing builds? Sure as H#(( not going to be Barry.

#31 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-05-30 03:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Besides blocking increased funding?

#27 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-30 02:58 PM | Reply | Flag

So no money caused them to cook the books on waiting times. They were so broke they paid out bonuses for meeting their imaginary numbers?

#32 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-30 03:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Obama campaign promise: BROKEN

"There are currently over 400,000 claims pending within the Veterans Benefits Administration, and over 800,000 claims receipts are expected in 2008 alone. … Obama will hire additional claims workers and convene our nation's leading veterans groups, employees and managers to develop an updated training and management model that will ensure that VA benefit decisions are rated fairly and consistently, and stem from adequate training and accountability for each claims adjudicator."
www.politifact.com

#33 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-30 03:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lefties blamed Bush b/c the walls needed paint. Now all of a sudden the buck stops with middle management.

#34 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-30 03:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Besides blocking increased funding?
#27 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-30 02:58 PM | Reply | Flag

What are you talking about 40% since 2009, this aint a money problem, this is a management problem. Even under Bush it increased 9% yoy.

#35 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-30 03:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Besides blocking increased funding?
#27 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

Please try to get your facts right

VA Nickel and Dimed Vets to Death While Running a Surplus for 5 Years

VA expects to carry over $450 million in medical-care funding from fiscal year 2014 to fiscal year 2015. VA received its full requested medical care appropriation of $54.6 billion this fiscal year, which is more than $10 billion more than it received four years ago.

This is part of an ongoing trend.

VA carried over $1.449 billion in medical-care funding from fiscal year 2010 to 2011, $1.163 billion from fiscal year 2011 to fiscal year 2012, $637 million from fiscal year 2012 to 2013, and $543 million from fiscal year 2013 to 2014.

www.frontpagemag.com

#36 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-05-30 03:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

#27 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

I know you libs love the stuff that pulls at your little heart strings so try this one on for size.

Dr. Richard Krugman, former associate chief of staff at the Veterans Affairs health care system based in Harlingen, Texas, said his boss implemented a policy in 2010 that colonoscopies would only be approved if the patient tested positive in three successive screenings for bloody stools.
www.frontpagemag.com

#37 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-05-30 03:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Turns out Obama did know.......

Report: Obama transition team was warned about unreliable wait times at VA in 2008

Veterans Affairs officials warned the Obama-Biden transition team in the weeks after the 2008 presidential election that the department shouldn't trust the wait times that its facilities were reporting.

"This is not only a data integrity issue in which [Veterans Health Administration] reports unreliable performance data; it affects quality of care by delaying -- and potentially denying -- deserving veterans timely care," the officials wrote…

In particular, the 2008 transition report referred to a VA inspector general recommendation to test the accuracy of reported waiting times…

"Audits of outpatient scheduling and patient waiting times completed since 2005 have identified noncompliance with the policies and procedures for scheduling, inaccurate reporting of patient waiting times and errors in [electronic waiting lists]," the briefing papers state…

The briefing materials do not reveal any concerns about outright fraud in manipulating waiting times, but they make repeated references in summarizing past audits and reviews about data accuracy.
hotair.com

#38 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-30 03:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dr. Richard Krugman, former associate chief of staff at the Veterans Affairs health care system based in Harlingen, Texas, said his boss implemented a policy in 2010 that colonoscopies would only be approved if the patient tested positive in three successive screenings for bloody stools.

I read this story a couple of weeks ago and it surprised me. My first visit to the VA in April the doctor ordered a colonoscopy based on nothing more than my age (I'm 58). They didn't look for blood or ask for a stool sample at all.

#39 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 03:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why the VA is the best run healthcare in the world! Why wouldn't everyone want it?

#40 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2014-05-30 03:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

What are you talking about 40% since 2009, this aint a money problem, this is a management problem. Even under Bush it increased 9% yoy.

#35 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Oh a whole 9 PERCENT! Wow so generous! Too bad they started wars that increased the number of VA patients by VASTLY more than that.

But they didn't care about what happens to the soldiers AFTER the wars, only who could profit from STARTING the wars.

#41 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-30 03:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

I worry that the VA has become such a byzantine empire that it cannot be changed from within. Instead radical change will only come after catastrophic failure leading to organizational collapse.

Shinseki did not fix the problems. It's possible this is because Shinseki is a terrible leader, but it's also possible this is because the VA has become unmanageable. Perhaps both are true.

What's ironic in all this is that patient satisfaction at the VA is highest in the nation. I don't really put much weight in that measure, though, as pretty much anybody who receives care rates it pretty high. The spread between best plan and worst plan in terms of patient satisfaction is about as narrow as the difference between our two political parties. Neither, for example, has been able to fix the VA.

#42 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 03:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Again would not be a problem with real national heath care.

This is nothing more than more posturing.

#43 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-30 03:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

#41 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

What part of they didn't use what they had from previous years didn't you grasp. They then get a 9% on top of base lone budget crap.

#44 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-05-30 04:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

See pan they were so broke they paid out bonuses.

#45 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-30 04:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

This is nothing more than more posturing.
#43 | POSTED BY SHAWN

Nothing more than showing that the government can't even take care of our veterans with out budget restraints but some how you and you ilk think you can take care of everybody in America with budget restraints. That just "---- rich.

#46 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-05-30 04:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why does she lie so much?

Why do you constantly make accusatory and inflammatory comments like this?

#48 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 04:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Speak said the problem was Republicans blocking funding for the VA. It's not true. There have been increases since the Bush years.

#49 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-30 04:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Shinseki steps down:

"I'm not surprised. Obama continues to throw anyone politically damaging under the bus.
#2 | Posted by Dalton"

Alter World - Shinseki keeps job:

"I'm not surprised. Obama protects his own, and won't force anyone to take responsibility.
#2 | Posted by Dalton"

#50 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-05-30 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"Why do you constantly make accusatory and inflammatory comments like this?
#48 | Posted by snoofy"

Because she has the mentality of a sixth grader, and absolutely nothing better to do with her time than live on this site.

#51 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-05-30 05:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 4

Speak said the problem was Republicans blocking funding for the VA. It's not true. There have been increases since the Bush years.

#49 | Posted by Dalton

Yes, there have been increases, but not enough to keep up with the bush wars.

If a school's student population quadrupled in size, but the number of teachers only doubled, would you be surprised when the test scores fell or would you say "hey what's wrong with the school, we gave them more teachers?"

#52 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-30 05:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes, there have been increases, but not
enough to keep up with the bush wars.

If a school's student population
quadrupled in size, but the number of
teachers only doubled, would you be
surprised when the test scores fell or
would you say "hey what's wrong with
the school, we gave them more
teachers?"
#52| POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

From a link up thread

"Between 2003 and 2013, VA funding
increased 131 percent, from $59 billion
to $136 billion, while the number of
veterans receiving treatment increased
27 percent, from 4.4 million to 5.6
million, Bloomberg News reported"

Try again...

#53 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2014-05-30 06:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

If problems at the VA are such a big deal, why don't affected veterans form a Bonus Army and build themselves another Hooverville?

I think it's because the right wing has done such a good job of portraying civil disobedience and public protest as the stuff of limp-wristed commie bed-wetters. When in fact it's the lifeblood of democracy.

#54 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 06:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

while the number of
veterans receiving treatment increased
27 percent, from 4.4 million to 5.6
million,

Glosses over the fact a large number of those 1.2 million were freshly injured in battle, and need care significantly more costly than, say, Goatman's conoloscopy.

320,000 estimated traumatic brain injuries, 400,000 estimated with post-traumatic stress disorder. Source www.woundedwarriorproject.org

#55 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 06:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Glosses over the fact a large number of those 1.2 million were freshly injured in battle, and need care significantly more costly than, say, Goatman's conoloscopy.
#55 | Posted by snoofy"

Not a good example. Goatman's rectum has been destroyed by years of abuse, and his colonoscopies are performed in an OR and require days in the ICU to recover.

#56 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-05-30 06:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

Glosses over the fact a large number of those 1.2 million were freshly injured in battle, and need care significantly more costly than, say, Goatman's conoloscopy.

Of course I glossed over it. The "freshly injured from battle" are taken care of at military run hospitals like Walter Reed, not the VA which is a completely different entity. VA is for (as the name implies) Veterans. Not active duty.

Yes, these folks may go to a VA facility after they are discharged from their military obligations -- just as if they would had they not been wounded, but generally speaking a wounded soldier remains on active duty (that means he's not a veteran, snoofy) until he is recovered, even if his EOS comes up.

Educate yourself before you plunge into one of your idiotic "gotta get goat" obsessive posts.

#57 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 07:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

The "freshly injured from battle" are taken care of at military run hospitals like Walter Reed, not the VA which is a completely different entity. VA is for (as the name implies) Veterans. Not active duty.

What are you talking about?
Soldiers get discharged from active duty after a debilitating injury prevents them from being soldiers.
Traumatic brain injury is a lifelong condition. It doesn't "get better" after a few weeks at Landstuhl.

#58 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 07:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here is a good summary of the possible outcomes:
answers.yahoo.com

#59 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 07:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

What are you talking about?

The "freshly injured from battle" are taken care of at military run hospitals like Walter Reed, not the VA which is a completely different entity. VA is for (as the name implies) Veterans. Not active duty.

Traumatic brain injury is a lifelong condition

I guess your guy ----- didn't realize there were wars going on or that these issues would be present down the road when those active duty members became veterans at the time he made his promise to fix the VA.

*yawn*

I guess we'll just add this to the long list of things he didn't know about that a president should. And you voted for this clueless clown twice. LOL

#60 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 07:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

answers.yahoo.com

Same link that pinchaloaf used to "prove" that boaz, I, and others didn't go into the service as an E3. LOL

#61 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 07:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Soldiers get discharged from active duty after a debilitating injury prevents them from being soldiers.
Traumatic brain injury is a lifelong condition.

The VA's post Vietnam era didn't have a 49% increase in funds as has happened with the VA since 2002 and there were app 8-9 x the casualties from that war than the ME wars

Face it, snoofy -- your guy lied about fixing the VA in spite of the fact they saw unprecedented increases in funds. It can't be denied. Read the headlines for christ sake.

#62 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 07:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

your guy lied about fixing the VA

What compels you to call everyone "liar, liar, pants on fire?"
You're like a child. A small one at that.
You're also contributing nothing to the discussion.

#63 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 07:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

You think Obama said he was going to fix the VA but didn't mean it?
Because that would make him a liar.

Likewise, you think Obama said he was going to close the POW camp at Guantanamo but didn't mean it?
Because that would make him a liar.

I don't think that's what happened. I think his mouth wrote a check his ass couldn't cash. I think he tried, and failed. That doesn't make him a liar.

Why do you need him and so many others to be liars? It's a weird pathological thing with you. Stop it.

#64 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 07:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Same link that pinchaloaf used to "prove" that boaz, I, and others didn't go into the service as an E3. LOL
#61 | Posted by goatman

Now that you've shot the messenger, what next? Do you think that makes you immune from the message?

#65 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 07:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

your guy lied about fixing the VA

What compels you to call everyone "liar, liar, pants on fire?"

I don't call everyone that. But if you are referring to the latest time I did, I answered that already. ----- lied when he said he'd fix the VA.

You're like a child. A small one at that.

You mean small child as in someone who calls people names when they get frustrated and can't rebut a point? LOL

You're also contributing nothing to the discussion.

Well, nothing you can rebut apparently. LOL

But then you think the "freshly injured from battle" go to VA hospitals, and "yahoo answers" is a valid citation source. LOL

Bye snoofy. Better luck next time.

#66 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 07:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

----- lied when he said he'd fix the VA.

One could just as easily say he didn't.
He didn't put a timeframe on when he'd fix it. It could still happen.
Importantly, he didn't make that statement while secretly having the intent of not fixing it.

This is all immaterial though. This discussion gets us no closer to actually fixing the VA.

#67 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 08:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

But then you think the "freshly injured from battle" go to VA hospitals, and "yahoo answers" is a valid citation source.

"Freshly" was not the right word. Perhaps I should have said "recently." Perhaps I should have said "those who sustained injuries sufficient to merit discharge pursuant to OIF and OEF." I suppose in the mind of Goatman I was deliberately lying.

Here is an interesting fact: www.cnn.com "According to a report by Aaron Glantz, when Obama took office in 2009, the number of veterans who were waiting more than a year for their benefits stood at 11,000. By December 2012, that number had ballooned to 245,000. That increase has been driven in large part by a growing number of veterans seeking benefits -- both newly returned from Iraq and Afghanistan but also veterans from previous wars who have sought benefits under revised guidelines."

When I said "freshly" I meant what this author calls "newly." But I suppose he's a liar too...

When you have to mince words to make your point, you have no point.

#68 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 08:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Importantly, he didn't make that statement while secretly having the intent of not fixing it.

Pretending you can channel the president's thoughts doesn't help your case in the least, snoofy. In fact, it puts you even further behind.

This is all immaterial though. This discussion gets us no closer to actually fixing the VA.

As if anything here does. If every discussion had to get us closer to fixing things, rcade may as well shut the place down.

As I said, better luck next time, snoofy. And be more careful who you vote for in the future, especially after a dismal primary performance. That's why I voted for Bush only twice.

#69 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 08:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Was I also lying when I said TBI and PTSD stem from injury in battle?

Is an IED blowing up next to you sufficient to constitute a battle?

Guess what? It doesn't matter.

#70 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 08:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

I suppose in the mind of Goatman I was deliberately lying.

Of course you were. Would you have provided a ham handed correction had I not called you out on it? Or would you have let your original statement ride?

Better luck next time, snoofy

#71 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 08:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

As I said, better luck next time, snoofy.

Better luck with what?

#72 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 08:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Was I also lying when I said TBI and PTSD stem from injury in battle?

I don't know. Let me go to yahoo.answers.com. LOL

#73 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-30 08:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

I suppose in the mind of Goatman I was deliberately lying.

Of course you were
#71 | Posted by goatman

Really? Is the author in #68 also lying? Because we said the same thing. He used "newly." I used "freshly."

#74 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 08:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't call everyone that. But if you are referring to the latest time I did, I answered that already. ----- lied when he said he'd fix the VA.

How did Obama lie? If it is true that these managers of the local facilities falsified documents then there is no way Obama or Shinski could have known and therefore lie.

#75 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-30 08:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Importantly, he didn't make that statement while secretly having the intent of not fixing it.

Pretending you can channel the president's thoughts doesn't help your case in the least, snoofy. In fact, it puts you even further behind.
#69 | Posted by goatman

Yet you call him a liar, so you must be able to channel his thoughts...

#76 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 08:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

What compels you to call everyone "liar, liar, pants on fire?"

I don't call everyone that. But if you are referring to the latest time I did, I answered that already. ----- lied when he said he'd fix the VA.
#66 | Posted by goatman

That doesn't explain what compels you to call him, and so many others, such as myself, a liar.

#77 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 08:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't suppose it's a surprise, though

#1 | Posted by goatman

Why would anyone be surprised that the government doesn't work as advertised anymore when the mission of the GOTP is obstruct and block Obama's agenda (that hopey changey thing), make him a one term president(oops) and to shrink the size of government so it could be drowned in a bathtub (workin it boss!).

Well, now look what you have done... you are drowning our Veterans along with it.


#78 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-30 08:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Those who surrounded Shinseki shielded him from crucial facts and hid bad news reports," the lawmaker said
www.latimes.com
#13 | Posted by Corky

Goatman: I think I found the relevant liars in this story.

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 08:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

America needs to regain a culture where those almost on top need to be held accountable, instead of only those on the bottom or middle.

Seeing this pattern being set is good. Next we need to see POTUSs impeached for failing in their function.

#80 | Posted by Robson at 2014-05-30 08:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Nothing more than showing that the government can't even take care of our veterans with out budget restraints but some how you and you ilk think you can take care of everybody in America with budget restraints. That just "---- rich.

----

But somehow the largest and most well funded socialist organization in the history of man(u.s. army), seems to be able to get the job done.

Simply extending medicare to all would solve the problem quite nicely thank you; at least as long as the political satraps were prevented from raiding the funds.

Your straw man coupled with red herrings I dismiss as sycophantic astroturf.

#81 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-30 09:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Next we need to see POTUSs impeached for failing in their function.
#80 | Posted by Robson

They tried that with Nixon. Ford pardoned him. There's basically been zero accountability since.

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-30 10:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

They tried that with Nixon. Ford pardoned him. There's basically been zero accountability since.

-------

The 'founding fathers' were a collection of drug dealing, human auctioning, weapon manufacturers who wanted were fighting for their own 'piece of the rock'.

This country has never allowed a real referendum on power. Not on July 4, 1776, nor afterwards.

#83 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-30 10:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Same link that pinchaloaf used to "prove" that boaz, I, and others didn't go into the service as an E3. LOL

#61 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2014-05-30 07:19 PM | REPLY | FLA

You were an E-1 in basic training. When I went in, all basic trainees were enlisted grade 1, regardless of what the contract said.

You have a reputation for lying, and you have a long history of trollish, circular arguments.

You want to do veterans a favor?

Go to non VA facility for your healthcare

There you will get more costly care that has less quality, and have a greater chance of infection. Non VA facilities are also less safe. Who knows, maybe you'll become a statistic, considering that nearly a quarter million Americans die every year in hospitals from medical errors, preventable infection, and various forms of maltreatment, over treatment, under treatment.

And by you going to a non VA facility, you'll open up a slot for another veteran, who isn't welded to moronic right wing politics.

#84 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2014-05-31 09:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

You were an E-1 in basic training.

No, I wasn't. I was there. You weren't. I know.

#85 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 09:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

@ Goatman

Why don't you start your paperwork to dis-enroll from the VA, so another more deserving veteran can take your place?

Here, I'll help you...

www.va.gov

Once you're out of the VA, another veteran will take your place.

And then you'll be free to go to a non VA facility where you can happily get costlier care with less quality, that is more unsafe, and increase your chances of becoming a statistic due to medical errors, mistreatment, etc.

#87 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2014-05-31 09:16 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Will any Rethugs put their money where their mouths are and provide the VA the funding it needs? The root of the problem is that in their war against Obama Rethugs have killed 13 bills intended to improve patient care. They would rather veterans die than Obama be able to claim any success. They feel the same way about our economy and with control of the House, they control the purse strings. To make matters worse Obama is a closet Conservative, more worried about reducing the deficit than creating jobs.

#88 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-05-31 09:34 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Will any Rethugs put their money where their mouths are and provide the VA the funding it needs?

Nutcase: VA funding has increased 40% since 2009. That could not have happened without "rethug's" approval.

Also why do you think that throwing more money at them is going to fix anything? The 40% increases in the last 5 years haven't. Isn't it time to actually looking at the problems instead of blindly throwing money at it?

#89 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 09:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

VA funding has increased 40% since 2009. That could not have happened without "rethug's" approval.

Also why do you think that throwing more money at them is going to fix anything? The 40% increases in the last 5 years haven't. Isn't it time to actually looking at the problems instead of blindly throwing money at it?

#89 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2014-05-31 09:41 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

Did you ever consider that the number of claims have gone up since 2009?

Did you ever consider that many older vets have been finally given access to the VA due to things like reclassifying Agent Orange cases?

Did ever consider the return of investment when building VA hospitals and clinics because that money is recouped in the long run via the VA's almost lifetime relationship with it's patients?

Do you ever think?

#90 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2014-05-31 09:56 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

For nutcase and others who think the GOP wants to cut VA funds:

Several media outlets are reporting that the GOP Budget cuts funding for veterans. These same outlets charge that the GOP budget doesn't even mention the word "veterans." Both charges are wrong.

These reports stem from a misreading of the GOP Budget and by comparing the CBO scoring of the GOP Budget and the President's Budget, with that of OMB's score of the President's Budget. Using CBO scoring for both budgets, the GOP Budget exceeds the funding levels for veterans over the next 10 year as compared to the President's budget (see chart below)

FACT: The GOP Budget Keeps Discretionary Spending for Veterans Exactly the Same as Proposed By President Obama: $61.342 Billion.

FACT: The GOP Budget Fully Funds VA Entitlement Programs in FY 2013 and Beyond.

veterans.house.gov

Isn't it time that the left stops the political knee-jerking blame game and look at the real problems behind the VA's fiascos?

#91 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 09:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

When you do, I'll be glad to address your questions which contain many erroneous assumptions and omissions.

#92 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2014-05-31 10:01 AM | REPLY | FLAG

I have posted numerous links to facts for months on end that, when looked at by rational people, all point to an understanding that the VA model of care is superior to all other models.

Your problem is that you either cannot comprehend those facts, or you purposely ignore them while engaging in trollish circular arguments that achieve nothing.

And since you don't believe your own anti-government rhetoric by going to the VA for your healthcare, you need to dis-enroll so another veteran can take your place.

#93 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2014-05-31 10:20 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

... you need to dis-enroll so another veteran can take your place.

Hmm. Interesting. I never realized there was a fixed number of veterans the VA served and that a veteran couldn't enroll until a spot opened.

Thanks for that eye-opener, pinchaloaf!

#94 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 10:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

The VA is now receiving ~75% more money than they did post WW2 and post Vietnam. Yet they still are begging for more even though those two wars saw far, far more casualties than our ME misadventures.

See table and graph at bottom of link

Veterans Affairs: Historical Budget Authority, FY1940-FY2012

Isn't it time we start looking at what is causing the problems in the VA instead of continuing to blindly throw money at it?

#95 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 11:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

And since you don't believe your own anti-government rhetoric by going to the VA for your healthcare, you need to dis-enroll so another veteran can take your place.

#93 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2014-05-31 10:20 AM
NW! Amazing how someone who always rags on government intrusion and claims to be conservative can be so willing to grab free healthcare .And call Obama a socialist with a strait face. Yes I know goat you told me yesterday you earned by giving 6 years of your life to the Navy. Well they gave you E-3 for your 6 years so stop crying.I'm surprised that a person can be a genius and score high on his ASVAB but couldn't plain out his future and puts extra burden on the VA to get his Freebies.Yet an E-1 in boot camp was able to plan his future and not rely on handouts. Take your freebie and quit crying.You get what you pay for!

#96 | Posted by patron at 2014-05-31 11:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

...can be so willing to grab free healthcare

Except it's not free. I paid for it.

You somehow keep missing that point, patron.

#97 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 11:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

The VA is now receiving ~75% more money than they did post WW2 and post Vietnam. Yet they still are begging for more even though those two wars saw far, far more casualties than our ME misadventures.

See table and graph at bottom of link
Veterans Affairs: Historical Budget Authority, FY1940-FY2012

Isn't it time we start looking at what is causing the problems in the VA instead of continuing to blindly throw money at it?

#95 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2014-05-31 11:06 AM | REPLY | FLAG

Funding comparisons from before our entry into WWII to now as a basis to what is appropriate is, well, effing stupid.

Did you consider that the medical technologies have changed from 1940 to now?

Did you consider that despite advances in medical technology, let alone just medical advances in general, have not brought the overall cost of US healthcare down in the present?

... but yet, study after study shows that VA healthcare performs the highest quality, most cost effective care in the country.

The problem is access. And since 2009 more veterans have been granted access into the VA.

Building more hospitals and clinics equals more access for veterans. And if you don't believe any of this, then you should quit your VA benefit so another veteran can take your place.

#98 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2014-05-31 11:18 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Building more hospitals and clinics equals more access for veterans.

Gimme more money! Money, money, money!

Your point it duly noted, Mr. VA employee/shill

#99 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 11:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Except it's not free. I paid for it."

Yeah I heard 6 years of your life.You're crying about the money being thrown at the system and then you use the system and complain. Lucy not every vet uses the system to avoid paying for health care. Even the VA ask on it's website for you to keep your insurance so they can bill it for reimbursement. It also advise not to rely on it as funding could change and you won't be covered. So I agree with you stop throwing my tax dollars at the VA hospitals.

#100 | Posted by patron at 2014-05-31 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

The problem is access. And since 2009 more veterans have been granted access into the VA.
#98 | Posted by PinchALoaf
Yeah and then those E-3's complain that the VA needs money . Some republicans are just to dumb or are just trollish.

#101 | Posted by patron at 2014-05-31 11:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah I heard 6 years of your life.

Yes, you are correct. I'm glad you finally got it.

You're crying about the money being thrown at the system and then you use the system and complain.

You would rather I selfishly say, "Give my medical system more money!"? Then you would whine that I was being self serving.

So I agree with you stop throwing my tax dollars at the VA hospitals.

Good

#102 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 11:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah and then those E-3's complain that the VA needs money . Some republicans are just to dumb or are just trollish.

So you are saying pinchaloaf is a dumb, trollish E3 begging for more money?

I know you weren't addressing me because I left the service as an E5, am saying the VA doesn't need more money (unlike pinchaloaf), and I'm simply stating facts and providing links to back them up (not trolling like the name calling pinchaloaf), and well, I guess "dumb" is objective. I didn't know he was a republican, though. But it makes sense. Pinchaloaf strikes me as the type who would tie himself to an idiotic political party

#103 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 11:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

You're crying about the money being thrown at the system and then you use the system and complain.

You would rather I selfishly say, "Give my medical system more money!"? Then you would whine that I was being self serving.
#102 | Posted by goatman

Now that's trolling. [...]

#104 | Posted by patron at 2014-05-31 11:48 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"I know you weren't addressing me because I left the service as an E5,"
WOW! that's impressive . Six years to go two ranks up. Man the way you talked I'd have thought you was an Admiral.

#105 | Posted by patron at 2014-05-31 11:56 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

WOW! that's impressive . Six years to go two ranks up.

In the Navy you had to have 6 years in service before advancing to E6. Sorry, I didn't make the rules, patron. Take it up with the USN.

Man the way you talked I'd have thought you was an Admiral.

No, doing well on ASVAB doesn't guarantee Admiral in 6 years. Odd you would think that.

#106 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Good God are you really so ignorant!

I sure am, patron.

#107 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

I'm simply stating facts and providing links to back them up (not trolling like the name calling pinchaloaf)

#103 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2014-05-31 11:47 AM | REPLY | FLAG

You're not stating facts.

You're stating mindless conjecture. Posting a timeline of VA budgets mean very little, as I've already explained.

I've continually posted the RAND study (as with other sources) that explains that the VA provides higher quality, most cost effective care. And you have NEVER rebutted that. And you WILL NEVER rebut that because you're trying to stamp a moronic layman's like logic to something very complicated.

All you provide to any conversation is trollish, circular garbage.

#108 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2014-05-31 12:01 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

You're not stating facts.

Then dispute the data on the links I posted (which are from government sources/data) with citations of your own, pinchaloaf.

That's the way an honest debate works.

#109 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 12:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

All you provide to any conversation is trollish, circular garbage.

#108 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF AT 2014-05-31 12:01 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Actually, I provide links to support my claims.

You don't. You call names instead. One need look no further than this thread to prove that.

#110 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

In the Navy you had to have 6 years in service before advancing to E6.

--------! you can make e-6 in 4 years and don't tell me No cause I was there I lived it STUPID -------- ------------ ----------- LIAR!!!!!

#111 | Posted by patron at 2014-05-31 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Delete that E-5 is right. I was thinking E-5 . Don't delete my ------------ though.

#112 | Posted by patron at 2014-05-31 12:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

And you have NEVER rebutted that.

No, I haven't. It may be true. I don't know. I can't know because you also said that there are no metrics on civilian health care facilities, which of course makes an honest comparison impossible. So I honestly don't know which of those conflicting statements to believe.

#113 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 12:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

--------! you can make e-6 in 4 years...

Maybe now, I don't know. But when I was in the Navy, it wasn't possible to make E6 in under 6 years. That may have changed though.

No cause I was there I lived it STUPID -------- ------------ ----------- LIAR!!!!!

I didn't know you were in the Navy. I thought you said Army. Sorry.

You DO realize that the different services may have different time in rank requirements for advancement, don't you? I know when I was active duty it took forever for AF enlisted to make rank because of them.

BYW, shrilly calling names doesn't help your point at all. In fact, it detracts from it.

#114 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Again the framing of this problem is a privation of the fact that romneyobmaacare is not real national health care. For if he had real health care for all there would be no need for the VA, and thus veterans could get care at the same places as the rest of the population(all medicare providers).

And neither clique of boot licking parasites has any political inclination to disobey their corporate oyabun. Thus the situation will not be repaired.

There is no difference between the parties.

None what so ever.

#115 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-31 01:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Except it's not free. I paid for it.

How much did you "pay" ? Did you lose an arm? A leg? A tooth maybe? I bet you got a deal. For six years this Nation fed, clothed, trained you and took care of you and you probably got to see the world. And it is probably where you learned the skills you needed to make your career with. And you were given a salary the whole time.

And you learned what it means to be a Citizen.

How Much Did You Really "Pay"?

I was in the Marines for 6 years and you know what? I would never go to the VA unless I absolutely had too. The reason? There are veterans that really did pay and deserve it more than me and so I would never consider taking their seat.

So tell us Goat.. How much do we still owe you?

Maybe we could take up a collection and write you a check and pay you what you really deserve.

Semper Fi

#116 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-31 01:40 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 4

Isn't it time that the left stops the political knee-jerking blame game and look at the real problems behind the VA's fiascos?
#91 | Posted by goatman

It wasn't the left whose political knee-jerking blame game got Shinseki to resign.

#117 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-31 03:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

There is no getting around the fact that there are deep seated problems in the VA typical of large old organizations. People who put their own bonuses ahead of veteran care violate their Hippocratic oath and should be fired. Issues like failing to computerize veteran disability applications and losing paper files is also inexcusable and more costly than modern data systems to operate.

At the same time the nature of the Iraq war in particular and Afghanistan as well has increased the workload at the VA by more than 40%. Rethugs have blocked 13 pieces of legislation including one request for $21 billion. But just throwing money at these failures will not fix them. The data systems and manager's attitudes must be fixed first. People who ordered the creation of fake wait lists should be prosecuted and imprisoned.

It has been estimated that the true costs of the unnecessary invasion of Iraq will be $5 trillion, most of that cost is long term care for the disabled Iraq Veterans. Rethugs would rather ignore the problem or blame the victims. Their campaign of blame is more disgusting election strategy nonsense. Like Rove's attack on Max Cleland. Just a very loud, well funded pack of lies. Effective too, unfortunately.

But the VA still needs fixing on a fundamental level that has little to do with Shinseki. At the same time, if Shinseki is in charge and unaware of these problems or worse aware and letting the matter slide, his resignation is welcome and necessary.

#118 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-05-31 06:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rethugs have blocked 13 pieces of legislation including one request for $21 billion.

Nutcase, I have provided two links that prove this to be wrong. Please quit repeating this lie or provide citation to back it up. Here's one of them again . (first posted in post 91 of this thread)

Several media outlets are reporting that the GOP Budget cuts funding for veterans. These same outlets charge that the GOP budget doesn't even mention the word "veterans." Both charges are wrong.
These reports stem from a misreading of the GOP Budget and by comparing the CBO scoring of the GOP Budget and the President's Budget, with that of OMB's score of the President's Budget. Using CBO scoring for both budgets, the GOP Budget exceeds the funding levels for veterans over the next 10 year as compared to the President's budget (see chart below)
FACT: The GOP Budget Keeps Discretionary Spending for Veterans Exactly the Same as Proposed By President Obama: $61.342 Billion.
FACT: The GOP Budget Fully Funds VA Entitlement Programs in FY 2013 and Beyond.
veterans.house.gov

Not to mention the VA budget has grown by 40% since ----- has been in office. This would not be possible if "rethugs" kept blocking it as you continue to puke out.

Link or stink, nutcase

#119 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rethugs have blocked 13 pieces of legislation including one request for $21 billion.

Nutcase, I have provided two links that prove this to be wrong

What you said doesn't prove it to be wrong.

Show where they didn't block 13 pieces of legislation if you want it to be wrong.

#120 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-31 06:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Instead of Shinseki, and someone that has authority commensurate with responsibility, the "powers that be" that have completely corrupted and destroyed the last remnant of ethical values and culture in the USA are probably pouting that we need another of their Harvard peer graduates.

Harvard grads have reputation of screwing the most and rewarding the few and elite. It fits the USA mold and Obama would support it. Its why we have been stuck with a SCOTUS that has no majority WASP representation, but instead a 2% that has 33%.

#121 | Posted by Robson at 2014-05-31 06:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

This would not be possible if "rethugs" kept blocking it as you continue to puke out.

#119 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2014-05-31 06:06 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

One google search of "Republicans cut VA budget" turns up...

www.reuters.com

www.washingtontimes.com

www.politico.com

thehill.com

www.redstate.com

www.militarytimes.com

www.votevets.org

Pretty straightforward stuff. Even Red State is saying that it's true. The Military Times even points out that Republicans in the Senate blocked additional VA funding.

#122 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2014-05-31 07:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Pretty straightforward stuff.

As is this link

www.drudge.com

But I hope you are right and they did vote to cut funds to the VA. They would have more of my respect. The VA has had a 40% increase in funding in the last 5 years and poorer service. We need to investigate exactly what the problem is before blindly throwing more money at it. It's proven that 40% in the last five years have done no good. We taxpayers need to know why. We don't need to throw more money down an hole.

#123 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 07:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

I got my information anecdotally from the Big Picture and the Daily Show, but the above links certainly support those broadcasts which contain more facts than the average commercial newscast. There is no question Rethugs have conspired to destroy our economy as another election strategy. Right wing policy which Obama supports while Rethugs call him names and he gives speeches touting Liberal policies which go nowhere. The larger point is that Rethug campaign strategies during Obama's tenure have been treasonous.

Goat completely ignores our points of agreement while locking onto a number or two, falsely howling foul, a common strategy for Rethugs the persistantly lie. But, we both agree just throwing more money at a corrupt VA will do no good. Accountability must be added to that system, as well as expensive equipment upgrades for record keeping and patient care. Equipment upgrades will let fewer people get more work doe.

#124 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-05-31 08:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

The VA has had a 40% increase in funding in the last 5 years and poorer service. We need to investigate exactly what the problem is before blindly throwing more money at it. It's proven that 40% in the last five years have done no good. We taxpayers need to know why. We don't need to throw more money down an hole.

#123 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2014-05-31 07:58 PM | REPLY | FLAG

WRONG

Independent 2013 Survey Shows Veterans Highly Satisfied with VA Care

www.va.gov

Also, I've posted reputable sources repeatedly that show what taxpayers are paying for, which is a VA healthcare system that provides very high quality care to veterans. And I've also said that the VA is not perfect, and those problems need to be fixed.

But rational minded people understand that despite the grotesque inefficiency and waste of US healthcare as a whole, the VA does a better job than all other health systems, again, as studies repeatedly show.

#125 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2014-05-31 08:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Independent 2013 Survey Shows Veterans Highly Satisfied with VA Care

Cool. Then they don't need any more money.

#126 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 08:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're an idiot.

#127 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2014-05-31 08:28 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

But rational minded people understand that despite the grotesque inefficiency and waste of US healthcare as a whole, the VA does a better job than all other health systems, again, as studies repeatedly show.

So the money would be better spent on non-veteran issues. It doesn't seem fair to spend money on a system that (as you say) whose members are "highly satisfied" with and ignore the rest of the population who is not satisfied with their health care.

It makes sense to me as I'm sure it does to any rational person, especially the majority who are not veterans.

#128 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 08:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're an idiot.

#127 | POSTED BY PINCHALOAF

Profound rebuttal, but self defeating since all I did was repeat you and state the obvious based on your quote.. LOL

We can see why you resorted to name calling rather than retort

#129 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-31 08:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

@ goatman

More attempt at bullying....

You were an E-1 in basic training. When I was in basic training, we were all E-1 recruits despite the contract we signed with the recruiter.

I'm a veteran, and I work for VA healthcare. I do my best to help veterans everyday, and to promote veterans issues. All you do is stir the pot with know-nothing political bromides that do nothing but promote ignorance of the issues.

Go eff yourself.

#131 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 2014-05-31 08:56 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Our leaders such as Obama, etc said they wanted whistle blowers to be protected and freely come forwarded, until they oddly reneged and decided they didn't because it would create political havoc in the bureaucracy.

The only way to clean out abuse, corruption, and fraud in a bureaucracy is to reward whistle blowers who come forth and expose the mismanagement.

#133 | Posted by Robson at 2014-05-31 10:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

GEEZ

Lotta anger in this thread. Y'know, instead of name-calling and saying what ranks are possible or not, how about, I dunno, looking it up? I googled "navy time requirement e6" and "e3 navy before basic training." I didn't bother digging through the results because I don't have a bone in this argument, but here's what I did find after five minutes of research:

This link says that the minimum amount of service time required to go from e3-e6 is 4.5 years (6 years if starting at e1). It's possible that you're still required to do 6 years if starting as an e3, though.

This link says that it is indeed possible to enter basic training as an e3. It's yahoo answers, though, so take that for what you will. There were other results that said regardless of what rank you enter as, you're all treated as e1's, so that might've been what that one guy was saying (he did say "despite the contract").

Anyway, I'll still be here...lurking v('w')v
PEACE

#134 | Posted by Gumball at 2014-06-01 01:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

Remember, DR veterans -- this is a VA employee who will call you liar

Aside from place of employment, he seems to have a lot in common with you.

#135 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-06-01 01:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

Anybody else notice that when goat is proven wrong he changes the subject without retort or ignores the post completely.

#136 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-06-01 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

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