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Wednesday, May 28, 2014

A Duke student is suing the university after he was banned from the May 10 graduation ceremony because of another student's claim of sexual assault. Lewis McLeod, a psychology major from Australia, was not charged by Durham, North Carolina, police after an investigation. The university Office of Student Conduct conducted its own investigation and expelled him. McLeod's student visa expired at the end of the semester, and without a job, he can't stay in the United States. He has a job offer from a Wall Street firm, but it is contingent upon his graduation.

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According to the motion filed by Schwartz & Shaw of Raleigh, McLeod took a female Duke student back to his home on Nov. 14. McLeod alleges their sex was consensual and that the woman "got emotional" and began to cry.

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An accusation is not the same as a conviction.

#1 | Posted by Tor at 2014-05-28 06:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

If he wasn't convicted, I'd say he has a case.

#2 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-28 07:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Does rape happen? Yes.

Does no mean no? Yup.

But more often than not she said yes at the time.

#3 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-28 07:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Are men falsely accused of rape? Yes. Do men often get away with rape? Yes. WE have a legal system in this country, it's not perfect but it's still better than some body that doesn't even allow him to present a defense.

#4 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-28 07:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

While in college I knew a fellow who had to deal with a sexual assault accusation. A girl was attending a party at his place. After everyone else went home, it was just him and her. He kissed her, she kissed back and then decided to stop and go home.

Later, she was convinced by a militant, anti-male, lesbian friend that it was actually an assault and she filed a complaint with the school police. It ended up taking taking the better part of a semester for him clear his name. Lucky for him, it was just a kiss and everyone already knew that she was nutty, so she had no credibility. It could have easily turned out differently though.

#5 | Posted by censored at 2014-05-28 07:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

If he earned (and paid for) the degree, he earned the degree, his legal conduct not withstanding. Hand it over, f--kers.

#6 | Posted by apparatchik at 2014-05-28 07:26 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Interesting. Has there ever been a study of the percentages of false rape charges/claims conducted by any "credible" source? ACEP journals don't even really reference it. I only ask because I have seen no less than 6 very messy false rape claims come through the ED this year. The most recent case was a doozy. Involved girl of age accusing boy underage because a girlfiend told her she liked the boy and was going to tell his parents. Sorry assed teenagers and thier perceptions of what is important.

#7 | Posted by bogey1355 at 2014-05-28 07:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dear god, I'm agreeing with Danni.....

#8 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-05-28 09:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

But more often than not she said yes at the time.

#3 | Posted by Shawn ... The Drudge Retort's resident expert on sexual assault

Mr McLeod may I suggest that in the future, you get the consent IN WRITING, and have the document notarized. The good folks Schwartz & Shaw of Raleigh can prepare the legal document and the Pakistani guy at the 7/11 near Duke can notarize it. and provide the condoms and lube at a reasonable price,

#9 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-05-28 09:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Danni can be very insightful.

I would think that after the other duke case all sane feminists (and liberals for that matter) would be able to remember for years to come that not all accused rapists are guilty and joining a techno lynch mob is no better than joining a real one.

#11 | Posted by Tor at 2014-05-28 10:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

After the way that Duke faculty and administrators wrongly slaughtered the Lacrosse team over a bogus rape charge that was levied by a woman who was later convicted of murder...you would think a bit more presumption of innocence as is consistent with our legal system would prevail.

#12 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-29 01:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

The problem is that people lie, and these days that includes playing all sorts of victim cards.

There is no doubt in my mind that bitter women happily lie and play the victim card.

There is also zero doubt in my mind that rapist scum bags lie to avoid punishment, and even sometimes play a round about victim card lie of their own.

And if you limit it to evidence of non-consensual sex, that just sets ground rules for the lies.

And this does not even get into the debates about consent.
(for example, the idea that you can't consent if drunk. If that is accepted, and two drunk people willingly screw, the 'logical' conclusion is MUTUAL rape..... It also means that every man who ever went to bed with a hottie while drunk, and woke up next to ugliness incarnate, was raped, because he never would have screwed her if he was sober...).

I don't see a good solution anywhere. The "least bad" to operate strictly by evidence.

#13 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-05-29 07:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sounds similar to what Dez Wells experienced at Xavier his freshman year. Accused of sexual assault, he was bounced out of school before a local grand jury finished its work. When the GJ returned with NO indictment, the local prosecutor (a hard-nosed guy and NOT a fan of Xavier hoops) publically called for Wells to be re-admitted to X. Because Xavier was operating under a consent decree from the US Justice Department, they had to play hard with Wells, who was allowed to transfer to Maryland and is now (probably) the richest player on the Terps basketball team.

Maybe Duke is also operating under an agreement w/ the DOJ? Duke has VERY deep pockets. Just sayin'...

#14 | Posted by catdog at 2014-05-29 08:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

I don't see a good solution anywhere.

The solution is to be careful about who you jump in the sack with -- especially if you don't know them well yet and alcohol is involved. (Obviously, that advice isn't easy to follow in the moment -- especially in an environment like college.)

One mom of college-aged men told them to exchange text messages before they hook up with somebody, so there's a paper trail later in case an accusation is made afterwards.

#15 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-29 09:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

WTF does being accused of rape have to do with getting a degree?

#16 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-29 10:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

One mom of college-aged men told them to exchange text messages before they hook up with somebody, so there's a paper trail later in case an accusation is made afterwards.

That is great advice.

#17 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-29 11:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

"you would think a bit more presumption of innocence as is consistent with our legal system would prevail.
#12 | Posted by JeffJ"

What makes you think that wasn't done in this case?

#18 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-05-29 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

What makes you think that wasn't done in this case?

#18 | POSTED BY MONTECORE

From above:

"Lewis McLeod, a psychology major from Australia, was not charged by Durham, North Carolina, police after an investigation."

#19 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-29 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yet the University saw fit to expel him anyway.

#20 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-29 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lack of a criminal charge does not mean innocence. The school has a right to its own procedures for due process. There is no evidence or information one way or the other on the fairness of the due process afforded by the school to the accused in this case.

#21 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-05-29 01:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

#21

While we don't have access to how Duke conducted its investigation, this certainly jumps out at me:

McLeod also questions the use of anonymous friends of the woman who provided testimony against him, while McLeod was not allowed to use his roommate as a witness.

#22 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-29 01:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rightly so.

#23 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-05-29 01:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

(Rightly jumps out at you....)

#24 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-05-29 01:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

One mom of college-aged men told them to exchange text messages before they hook up with somebody, so there's a paper trail later in case an accusation is made afterwards.
That is great advice.

Better advice "don't have sex with a woman you don't trust to not claim rape afterwards".

It might mean a bit less sex but the sex will be more fulfilling IMO.

#25 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-05-29 01:55 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

McLeod contends his disciplinary hearing was tainted and that the freshman was coherent that night. He points to discrepancies within the freshman's statements, claiming that her testimony included fabrications, and that she lacks credibility. Among his claims:

The investigator failed to interview the student with whom the freshman was dancing at Shooters prior to meeting McLeod, and that the man would have testified that the freshman was coherent.
The panel interrupted the testimony of the fraternity brother who observed through his window McLeod and the freshman exiting the cab. He would have testified that she did not seem confused.
The disciplinary panel did not ask the fraternity brother who retrieved the freshman's wallet about her state of sobriety. He would have testified that she was coherent.
The panel sent home, without allowing him to testify, the fraternity brother who'd heard the freshman and McLeod laughing outside his bedroom door. The fraternity brother would have testified that the freshman seemed coherent. (The Duke panel has the authority to dismiss witnesses deemed irrelevant.)
The panel did not allow McLeod to confront the freshman's best friend, who opted not to attend the hearing. The friend had previously told the investigator that the freshman appeared slightly intoxicated that night, but that the freshman was "OK" with her clothes coming off in McLeod's bed.
The panel put undue weight on the written testimony of the anonymous witness, whose identity McLeod doesn't know. (The hearing panel allows for anonymous witness testimony, so long as it does not constitute a sole or substantial basis for determining responsibility.)
Throughout the hearing, McLeod was not given the opportunity to argue his case, and the student chair seemed biased against him and ignored him on several occasions. "She would say we've discussed this enough, let's move on," he testified in court last week.


www.indyweek.com

The article I just linked provides a lot more detail than the article linked in this thread.

#26 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-29 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rightly so.

#23 | POSTED BY MONTECORE

You think Duke was 'correct' in not allowing his roommate to share his observations?

#27 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-29 02:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Rightly so.
#23 | Posted by mOntecOre"

"(Rightly jumps out at you....)
#24 | Posted by mOntecOre"

#28 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-05-29 02:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

This one really kind of boils down to he said/she said.

What is agreed upon is that intercourse did take place and that during intercourse she started crying. In talking herself through what happened the girl admits that he stopped before he was "done". Now that doesn't mean that he stopped when she allegedly told him to stop. But it does sound like he stopped prior to blowing his wad.

#29 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-29 02:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

You lost me, Monte.

I thought it was some kind of reference to my right-leaning worldview, but I am not sure.

You were probably making some kind of a funny and I am too dense to get it. I often struggle with subtle jokes.

#30 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-29 02:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

...or it could be the fact that not allowing his roommate to give any testimony jumped out at me, as in, that is a legitimate criticism of how the investigation was conducted.

#31 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-29 02:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

If he had got the consent IN WRITING, and had the document notarized.
He would have his diploma, and his job on Wall Street

#32 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-05-29 04:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

The girl seems emotionally unstable if what is in the indyweek article is true. She just comes off as one of those girls that goes with the flow and then regrets her actions later. The guy should not have to suffer for her own internal issues and neither will this solve that.

#33 | Posted by daniel_3 at 2014-05-29 05:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Mr McLeod may I suggest that in the future, you get the consent IN WRITING, and have the document notarized."

Not sure how it works for civillians, but in the military I don't even think that would work. A recent case involved a man who was at a bar, met a girl, with whom he had "consensual" sex with. A while later he saw her at a different bar and went up to her. When she said she didn't recognize him, he told her he thought it was strange, given that they had hooked up.

She went and filed a sexual assault charge. He got convicted of sexual assault and kicked out of the Air Force. The Air Force assumes that a woman who is intoxicated is unable to provide consent (intoxicated men are though), so even if a man does get consent, if the woman has been drinking she can come back later, state there was no consent, and the AF will side with her.

When this information was provided to us, for a hot minute I wanted to get a law degree and specialize in cases where use of alcohol could be used as a defense. Imagine being able to go to Morton's, order whatever you want, and then be able to walk away without a bill because you placed your order after having a few martinis.

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-29 07:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lack of a criminal charge does not mean innocence.

#21 | Posted by mOntecOre

An accusation does not mean guilty either.

#35 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-29 08:45 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#25 | POSTED BY TAOWARRIOR

NW!

#36 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-05-29 10:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

I know it's not realistic, but strictly speaking, a lot of these problems come down to people who willingly impaired their judgement and capacity for legal consent by excessively drinking alcohol.

We need to call a spade a spade: getting drunk is usually voluntary, and usually foolish.

#37 | Posted by DoofusOfDeath at 2014-05-30 11:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

If you can get into Duke, you can into lots of other good schools and therefore have lots of choices.

Seems like straight males need to avoid Duke like the plague. They learned nothing from the shameful incident with the lacrosse players, it seems.

#38 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-30 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Was it rape or rape rape?

#39 | Posted by shirtsbyeric at 2014-05-30 12:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

"...or it could be the fact that not allowing his roommate to give any testimony jumped out at me, as in, that is a legitimate criticism of how the investigation was conducted.
#31 | Posted by JeffJ"

Your concern is legitimate.

#40 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-05-30 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

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