Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, May 27, 2014

Mark Follman, Mother Jones: It would be an understatement to say that the tactics of gun rights activists have been backfiring of late. The showdown has taken place foremost in Texas, where in recent months groups such as Open Carry Texas have conducted provocative demonstrations in which armed men exercise their right under state law to carry semi-automatic rifles in public. No fewer than seven national food and beverage chains have now told them to get rid of their guns or get lost, including Starbucks, Wendy's, Applebees, Jack In The Box, and Chipotle.

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And now Chili's and Sonic have joined the list: Two videos posted on YouTube on May 19 by the San Antonio chapter of Open Carry Texas -- since removed from public view but obtained by Mother Jones -- show its armed members being refused service at both restaurants. From the nervous and angry reactions of some patrons to comments from some of the gun activists themselves, it's not difficult to see why these spectacles haven't been winning many people over.

"I just wish I had my kids in there when that one young chick come up and started rattin' her mouth," said one of the gun activists.

When a young woman approaches the group in Chili's and expresses her dismay, a guy with an assault rifle strapped across his back offers her a flier. "Um actually, there's children here," she replies, "and you're a -------."

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Which is fine by me, they are a business and if they don't want firearms in their stores its their choice, yet they are surprised criminals don't obey the sign. As well as if they don't want to serve a person for x,y or z, it is their choice. As it is my choice to not spend my money at business that don't support rights I support.

#1 | Posted by zack991 at 2014-05-27 09:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

Then again liberals would be screaming if this was a gay couple that was denied service, they support a business right to refuse to serve on this topic, yet on others they are bigots. Any business should have the right to refuse service to anyone no matter the topic.

#2 | Posted by zack991 at 2014-05-27 09:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

Zack I am all for gun rights but on this one #2 is a false comparison you can choose to leave your gun at home in a gun safe you can't chose to leave your sexuality at home in a sexuality safe.

I am all for open carry but guys like this are being ludicrous and they do give all gun owners and gun rights supporters a bad name. This is poor behavior regardless of the issue at hand and the restaurant would not need a specific anti-gun policy as they can kick these jerks out of the restaurant for acting like jerks.

Kind of makes the open carry point moot if you are ejected from the establishment for poor behavior.

#3 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-05-27 09:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Then again liberals would be screaming if this was a gay couple that was denied service, they support a business right to refuse to serve on this topic, yet on others they are bigots."

This comments illustrates that you fail to understand the fairly obvious difference between the two situations. Also, an understanding of what "bigotry" is seems to elude you. Other than that, spot on!

As for these open carry buffoons, here's hoping that one day they will grow up enough to leave their toys at home.

#4 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-27 09:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

Well in Texas they can only open carry long guns to begin with, I would bet they wouldn't have carried long guns if they were allowed to carry handguns openly. People can act like jerks all they want, but there is a price for being jerks. People who claim to support business choices and liberty really can not nick pick what a business has the right to denies service for one thing but not for another.

#5 | Posted by zack991 at 2014-05-27 09:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

4.
It was a simple example, you can use what every one you want. ANother example they refuse to serve anyone who is wearing a Obama shirt from being worn in their store and they can be left at home as well.

#6 | Posted by zack991 at 2014-05-27 09:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

It was a simple example, you can use what anyone you want. Here is another example, say they refuse to serve anyone who is wearing a Obama shirt or any shirt they don't agree with or find offensive.

#7 | Posted by zack991 at 2014-05-27 09:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

yet they are surprised criminals don't obey the sign.

Why would anyone be surprised when a criminal does not obey the sign. That makes no sense.

#8 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-27 10:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

Here is another example, say they refuse to serve anyone who is wearing a Obama shirt or any shirt they don't agree with or find offensive.

Was the Obama shirt scaring other customers?

You draw comparisons between legitimate safety concerns of other customers and ludicrous apparel choices.

I can understand if the t-shirt had obnoxious words or images on it.

#9 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-27 10:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

It was a simple example, you can use what every one you want. ANother example they refuse to serve anyone who is wearing a Obama shirt from being worn in their store and they can be left at home as well.

#6 | Posted by zack991 at 2014-05-27 09:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

The Obama shirt thing is a better example because its a chosen behavior. But I think you're still missing the fact that this is a safety issue.

#10 | Posted by sully at 2014-05-27 11:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

Safety issue.. yeah, that's real logical. Quick, every run and hide from the sports rifle enthusiasts walking around with unloaded weapons in total compliance with the law! So dangerous!

It's not safety. It's "out of sight, out of mind". No shortage of CHLs here, guns are always around.

What's going to happen next is Open Carry in Texas will eventually become licensed. The more Open Carry Austin does its thing, the sooner it will happen. At that point establishments will have the option to post 30.06 signs, or not, and be able to ban licensed firearms if they so choose. It's a reasonable compromise that balances property rights with individual rights.

#11 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-27 12:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Quick, every run and hide from the sports rifle enthusiasts walking around with unloaded weapons in total compliance with the law!

Can you tell the difference between a loaded rifle at 20 feet? Can the average person?

Can you tell the difference between a loaded or unloaded handgun?

Oh great soothsayer, please tell us.

If they were indeed unloaded, then how good are they at stopping the bad guy like they pretend they will? Just more grown children parading around with their toys.

#12 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-27 01:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

The author of this article needs some remedial courses in journalistic integrity.

There are enough things flagged in my "this guy sucks" category from just the summary of the article that I will wait to read it until I'm near a vomit appropriate receptacle.

#13 | Posted by jpw at 2014-05-27 03:47 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

What a group of ---------. Only complete and utter idiots enter a family restaurant in a large group wearing firearms in this fashion. --------.

#14 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-05-27 03:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Um actually, there's children here," she replies

WTF does that have to do with anything? She is a dumb ass.

#15 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-27 04:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#12 | POSTED BY 726 AT 2014-05-27 01:55 PM | FLAG:

First question, yes from the videos I've seen.

Second question is irrelevant, open carry of handguns is illegal in Texas.

Last part is irrelevant, but if we're going to speculate, I'd imagine they would use their lawfully concealed handguns I'm assuming some of them have since they've shown their CHL cards to officers in videos posted online.

Here's my question. How many rifle armed gangs of bearded Austin hipsters have you heard of strong arm robbing low grade fast food eateries or mass murdering the patrons? The answer is none, because they're political activists and not robbing or murdering anybody.

#16 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-27 04:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Zack I am all for gun rights but on this one #2 is a false comparison you can choose to leave your gun at home in a gun safe you can't chose to leave your sexuality at home in a sexuality safe.

#3 | Posted by TaoWarrior

Wrong tao, they don't need to exchange spit in a public place. That also applies to a conventinal couple.

#17 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-27 04:13 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Safety issue.. yeah, that's real logical. Quick, every run and hide from the sports rifle enthusiasts walking around with unloaded weapons in total compliance with the law! So dangerous!"

Nobody with even a passing familiarity with gun safety would assume that these guns are not loaded - even if the people waving them around claim that is the case.

Responsible gun owners must hate every time you post.

#18 | Posted by sully at 2014-05-27 04:13 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Can you tell the difference between a loaded rifle at 20 feet? Can the average person?

#12 | Posted by 726

At this point, what the hell does it matter?

#19 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-27 04:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

This type of stuff hurts gun owners. Just b/c you can carry doesn't mean you shouldn't be considerate of people that don't want to be around guns when you are out. I don't want my kids sitting next to someone with a assault weapon.

#20 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-27 04:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I don't want my kids sitting next to someone with a assault weapon.

Good thing your kids can't sit next to an "assault weapon" because they don't exist.

#21 | Posted by jpw at 2014-05-27 04:34 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

This type of stuff hurts gun owners. Just b/c you can carry doesn't mean you shouldn't be considerate of people that don't want to be around guns when you are out. I don't want my kids sitting next to someone with a assault weapon.

#20 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-27 04:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Commie!

Also, I read this before and knew someone would say something about your use of the term 'assault weapon'. Everyone knows what you're talking about but they don't exist, ya know.

#22 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-27 04:49 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

I don't care what anyone calls guns or if I'm technically right about the names. I just don't want to expose my kids to strangers sitting around with guns when I go out to eat or to the park. It's a douchebag move and everyone knows it b/c that's why they are doing this.

#23 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-27 04:57 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

And I'm as big a 2nd amendment person you will find.

#24 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-27 04:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

I don't want my kids sitting next to someone with a assault weapon.

#20 | POSTED BY DALTON AT 2014-05-27 04:23 PM | FLAG:

Then don't take them to private, high end collections. Even the lowest quality sub-machine guns tend to start at $10,000.

Nobody with even a passing familiarity with gun safety would assume that these guns are not loaded - even if the people waving them around claim that is the case.

#18 | POSTED BY SULLY AT 2014-05-27 04:13 PM | FLAG:

Assumptions about loaded and unloaded are made all the time, at a glance, right before hundreds of people step in front of the muzzles. Go to the City of Houston's gun range and watch it happen.

If some hipsters walk in with empty magazine wells, and bolts locked back, then it's most likely unloaded. That doesn't mean you stand in front of it or not check the chamber if it's handed to you. That said, they're not asking people to stand in front of them. They're not waving them around. They are making no threatening displays what so ever, as that would land them in jail. The only time they've actually been arrested was for a city hall protest.

Frankly I'm surprised anybody could live in Austin and have NOT heard of these guys by now.

#25 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-27 05:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Frankly I'm surprised anybody could live in Austin and have NOT heard of these guys by now.

#25 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-27 05:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Knowing they keep doing it despite the negative reaction it gets from most people just further illustrates their lack of judgement. If I were on line for fast food and they walked in, I wouldn't run but I'd leave.

I hate going out in public enough because of the regular morons. I don't need armed morons in the mix.

#26 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-27 05:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

#12 | Posted by 726

Rule number one of gun safety: Always assume the gun is loaded and treat it so.

You can't tell if a gun is loaded or not unless you are looking in the chamber. Even it doesn't have a magazine inserted (on guns with a magazine) and the breach open there could be one in the chamber.

#27 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2014-05-27 05:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I hate going out in public enough because of the regular morons. I don't need armed morons in the mix."

In reality, you are in much more danger when the gangsta with the loaded nine millimeter that you can't see in the back of his low-riding trousers walks in for a milkshake while you're sitting with your kids. I'd bet you have morons like those out in public with you a lot more often than those guys with the visible rifles. incidentally, they aren't really assault rifles even though they may appear as such. "Assault rifles," automatic weapons, have been banned since the 1930's.

#28 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-05-27 06:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

#25 | Posted by sitzkrieg

I may be generalizing a bit, but I know guys that make me think of these clowns. I have hunted with guys like this and been around them. I never will again. These guys strike me as the type of idiot that would shoot at a moving bush assuming it is their "prey" and dot some other hunter or the idiot putting their target on the property line with no backstop and then shooting at it to site it in their rifles. They didn't know I was setting up my spot on my property straight in line with their fire.

I totally believe in the 2nd amendment but there are too many idiots expressing it. Open Carry Texas fits the bill. What sad buffoons they are. I don't know what it is - power maybe - but put a gun in some peoples hands and they turn into an instant idiot.

#29 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2014-05-27 06:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Good thing your kids can't sit next to an "assault weapon" because they don't exist.

#21 | Posted by jpw

...by your definition.

#30 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-27 06:15 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

"I have hunted with guys like this and been around them. I never will again. These guys strike me as the type of idiot that would shoot at a moving bush assuming it is their "prey" and dot some other hunter or the idiot putting their target on the property line with no backstop and then shooting at it to site it in their rifles. They didn't know I was setting up my spot on my property straight in line with their fire."

Those folks are NOT hunters and probably shouldn't have drivers' licenses either. I have hunted all my life and the group with whom I hunted would have kicked someone's ass and sent him home immediately. If you hunted with guys like this I certainly hope it wasn't for more than ONE time.

#31 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-05-27 06:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Jest, these ------ bags are not going into the hood with their AR's strapped to their backs. I'd love to see them walking around a place like South Central LA and see what kind of reception they get. But these pretend tough guys don't have the stones for that. Instead, they'll demonstrate in places that will actually be detrimental to their cause.

[...] Washington is an open carry state, yet you almost never see anybody open carrying. The ones that do open carry are not exercising their constitutional rights so much as trying to be provocative. One guy in the city I work in goes into the library just to create havoc. The librarians and parents with their kids call 911, and have it explained that he has the right to be an -----. I've talked to him, and he as much as admits that he's just trying to get into confrontations with the police so he can post them on YouTube. This idiot also goes to public meetings armed. It's interesting to watch the chilling effect his presence has on people. He scares the hell out of a lot of people. You gun fondlers might think he's making the place safer, but he's really just making sure that he's the first one who dies if somebody intends to commit a gun crime.

I've carried concealed for years, and have never once had somebody point or act concerned about my presence somewhere.

#32 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2014-05-27 06:35 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

...by your definition.

The Russian AK-47 is one of the best assault weapons in existence and is capable of automatic fire. Notice that the weapon used in the following statement was a REPLICA and was a semi-automatic weapon. Same thing with the U.S. M-16 which is capable of automatic fire and it's REPLICA, the AR-15, is not.

"Efforts to create a federal assault weapons restrictions intensified in 1989 after 34 children and a teacher were shot in Stockton, Calif., using a semi-automatic replica of an AK-47 assault rifle."

Once again, "assault weapons" have been banned since the 1930's. These are NOT assault weapon no matter how you or the media wanna spin it. There ARE assault weapons being used in the U.S. however. You'll find the MAC-9's, Mac-10's, Uzi's and others all over the inner cities of Chicago, Detroit and other large cities, but you won't find them being carried in public like these guys are doing with their legal rifles.

#33 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-05-27 06:46 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"This idiot also goes to public meetings armed. It's interesting to watch the chilling effect his presence has on people. He scares the hell out of a lot of people."

You're right, he IS an idiot...just like the guy(s) Pete described. We'll never be free of idiots, there'll always be some. In HIS case the best thing is to completely ignore him and deprive him of any acknowledgement.

"You gun fondlers might think he's making the place safer, but he's really just making sure that he's the first one who dies if somebody intends to commit a gun crime."

Uhhh...I hate to disappoint you, but I seldom "fondle" any of my firearms. I view them simply as tools, just like my chainsaw which I also handle carefully. I don't see myself ever taking a useless unloaded (OR loaded) rifle into a public place just to get a rise out of people. If I felt the need, I might legally carry a concealed loaded handgun into Burger King though. THAT might make the place a little safer.

#34 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-05-27 06:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

You gun fondlers might think he's making the place safer, but he's really just making sure that he's the first one who dies if somebody intends to commit a gun crime.

#32 | Posted by _Gunslinger_ at 2014

Brilliant post.

#35 | Posted by Zed at 2014-05-27 06:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't need armed morons in the mix.

#26 | Posted by Sully

Yet, you cross the street in front of a 5,000 lb suv going 45 MPH. I guess you trust drivers more than gun owners.

#36 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-27 07:12 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

...by your definition.

#30 | Posted by Whatsleft

And what's yours?

Back in 1776 a single shot musket was an assult weapon. The definition changes with time.

#37 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-27 07:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yet, you cross the street in front of a 5,000 lb suv going 45 MPH. I guess you trust drivers more than gun owners.
#36 | POSTED BY SNIPER

I don't think he would be able to post anything at all had that actually happened.

#38 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-05-27 07:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

And what's yours?

#37 | Posted by Sniper

I think any semiautomatic gun with a quickly interchangeable magazine should be considered an assault weapon. But frankly, I'm tired of seeing the semantics argued.

The gun I've just described can hit a lot of people almost as effectively as one that's fully automatic, maybe more so. And, much as you'd like to deny it, such a gun is really only designed to shoot people.

#39 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-27 07:32 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

In my long life I have been shot at, faced a loaded revolver at close range, talked down a suicidal employee with a gun, and done a fair amount of small and large game hunting.

I have no concern for the guy with a shotgun or rifle in the rack in the back window of his pickup truck. I do worry about the city slicker with the pistol hidden in his waistband or in the glove compartment of his BMW.

The Second Amendment refers to the "bearing" of arms. The way I see it, if you don't have the balls to openly bear your arms you are probably up to no good. We should ban concealed carry with a penalty of 30 years on the rock pile and allow open carry. If businesses ban you and people cross the street to avoid you, too damn bad. There is a price to be paid for being a lunatic.

For country folk guns are a tool for sport and sometimes survival. For city folks they are objects of erotic fantasy. Country folks would no more go to the hardware store with a gun than with a -----. They know there is a place and time for both.

#40 | Posted by TenMile at 2014-05-27 08:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

**** Mother Jones has PROVEN Over and Over that it is just a two faced "SHILL" for the Fascist Obama Govt!!!

#41 | Posted by AntiCadillac at 2014-05-27 08:17 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

...by your definition.

#30 | Posted by Whatsleft

I'm sorry, but in the real world populated by grownups, one doesn't get to just make up a definition to suit their purpose. Well, not without being laughed at.

It's a BS definition meant as an emotional pull, nothing more. If you want to flag yourself as an idiot by going along with it, I expect you to remain consistent in future interactions with me as I change definitions to suit my purpose in arguments.

#42 | Posted by jpw at 2014-05-27 09:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Safety issue.. yeah, that's real logical. Quick, every run and hide from the sports rifle enthusiasts walking around with unloaded weapons in total compliance with the law! So dangerous!
#11 | Posted by sitzkrieg

Logic tells me that I have no way of knowing if the person is an "enthusiast" or the next mass killer. Logic tells me I have no way of knowing if the weapon is loaded without getting close enough to be shot.

I'm surprised your logic doesn't tell you the same.

#43 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-27 09:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm sorry, but in the real world populated by grownups, one doesn't get to just make up a definition to suit their purpose.

Every definition is made up to suit somebodies purpose. None-the-less, the weapons I've described were only designed for one purpose, and it wasn't carnival games.

#44 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-27 09:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

Every definition is made up to suit somebodies purpose.

I think this is a lame attempt at saving face, but I'll agree to drop the semantics/definition argument for discussion sake.

None-the-less, the weapons I've described were only designed for one purpose, and it wasn't carnival games.

If you were talking about the versions used by militaries you might have a point (debatable still...), but we're not talking about versions used by militaries and we're talking about versions that have more or less the same capabilities as firearms outside of the category.

Simply being semi-auto with a detachable magazine doesn't mean it was designed purely for death and destruction.

#45 | Posted by jpw at 2014-05-27 10:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I can't believe Chik-Fil-A has yet to step up to offer these guys free sandwiches with a heroes' welcome. Might I suggest the one in the Southwest terminal at Love Field?

#46 | Posted by DCTexan at 2014-05-28 01:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

Logic tells me that I have no way of knowing if the person is an "enthusiast" or the next mass killer. Logic tells me I have no way of knowing if the weapon is loaded without getting close enough to be shot.
I'm surprised your logic doesn't tell you the same.

#43 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2014-05-27 09:28 PM | FLAG:

By your logic, never, ever leave your house. Close your blinds, lock your doors, never go out again. Every single person you see could be the next mass killer, including your own family members.

#47 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-28 07:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

Finally! Something to like about the fact that constitutional rights against aren't good against private corporations.

#48 | Posted by spectator at 2014-05-28 08:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

Assumptions about loaded and unloaded are made all the time, at a glance,

The obituaries are full of people who assumed the gun was not loaded.

#49 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-28 08:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Assumptions about loaded and unloaded are made all the time, at a glance, "

The obituaries are full of people who assumed the gun was not loaded.

"There is no such thing as an unloaded gun"

Goatman's father

#50 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-28 09:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

Amen Goatman. Growing up in a rural heavily wooded area my family was full of hunters and fisherman. The first thing I was told with my BB gun was it's always loaded. And never point it at something you don't intend to kill.

#51 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-28 09:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

As I said up thread. I have two youngish children and I wouldn't feel comfortable sitting at a restaraunt with people carrying rifles. Pistols are another matter simply b/c it's not right in your face but, these rifles aren't convenient hauling your kids around or going out to eat. They are trying to make a political statement and I think it's unfortunate b/c by being ------ about it and rubbing everyone's nose in the fact that they can hurts the people that support the 2nd amendment. Part of having rights is being smart enough and responsible enough to be considerate of your fellow citizen.IMHO

#52 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-28 09:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

The first thing I was told with my BB gun was it's always loaded.

That was my dad's primary directive with guns since I first shot one at 5 years old. We once were target shooting with a single shot .22. I took my shot and swung the gun around past my dad to reload it. My dad asked me why I pointed a loaded gun at him. I insisted it wasn't and that he saw me take the shot. I heard that line then. It wasn't the first time and it wasn't the last.

If everyone had dads with common gun sense like we had, dalton, there would be fewer accidents (non-existent, probably) and less irrational fear of guns.

#53 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-28 09:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

I don't need armed morons in the mix.

#26 | Posted by Sully

Yet, you cross the street in front of a 5,000 lb suv going 45 MPH. I guess you trust drivers more than gun owners.

#36 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-27 07:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

I have never walked in front an SUV or any other vehicle that is moving at 45 mph. And I don't distrust all gun owners either. I distrust those who demonstrate poor judgement through their behavior.

I don't know who gave you a "Newsworthy" on this. Maybe one of the editors of "Totally Made Up Crap Daily".

#54 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-28 09:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

#53 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-28 09:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

I think a lot of the irrational gun fear is due to lack of proper exposure. I lived in the country and my grandfather had a garden approximately the size of a football field. My job was to keep out the crows and wondering dogs. Got a quarter for every crow but, God forbid I shoot a red or blue bird. Then I would get the hickory tea as my grandmother called it. Anyway, I said on another thread these mass shooters aren't "gun nuts" it's just how people lump everyone together that wants to limit guns. These guys are actual plain nuts and use the gun as a tool b/c they are cowards and it is less confrontational.

#55 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-28 09:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

"There is no such thing as an unloaded gun"

Absolutely right, but don't tell Sitz that. He is too busy assuming the guns are unloaded.

#56 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-28 09:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

I think a lot of the irrational gun fear is due to lack of proper exposure.

Not everyone grows up in the country and is taught proper weapons procedures. That group includes some of these yahoos parading their weapons in a fast food restaurant.

It's a shame, but that is just the way it is.

I have no problem with a parent feeling unsafe when 10 people slinging semi-automatic rifles over their shoulders come strolling into a restaurant. I have no problem with the owner telling them to take a hike. They are not representative of the majority of responsible gun owners and are only seeking an emotional reaction against them so they can post it on YouTube and cry about it.

#57 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-28 10:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

"It's a shame, but that is just the way it is."

I agree and that is why I pointed it out that "city folk" are less likely to have proper training. I'm just thinking and very well could be wrong but, the south where I live is flooded with guns. Yet we haven't had this problem that I can remember. Most of the gun crimes here in Ga are taking place in the city of Atlanta. While the most recent shootings take place in very "white" areas by white young men.

#58 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-28 10:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

"That group includes some of these yahoos parading their weapons in a fast food restaurant."

I've said several times that those guys are ------ for not being more considerate of their fellow citizens and are actually hurting the 2nd amendment by not being responsible. Just b/c they can carry them doesn't mean they should b/c if I went to a restaraunt and guys were carrying them around with my children present I'm leaving.

#59 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-28 10:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

Absolutely right, but don't tell Sitz that. He is too busy assuming the guns are unloaded.

#56 | POSTED BY 726 AT 2014-05-28 09:57 AM | FLAG:

Context is key. You don't have it, but I can try to help you. Come with me to the City of Houston's range. Watch hundreds of people walk right in front of muzzles they assume are not loaded, because a teenage kid who's mom drove him to work glanced at it from 15 feet away to start a target change. It's the orange vests that make them official and believable.

Kind of like seeing hipsters with no mags, locked open bolts, and slung rifles walk into a fast food joint. Massacre or burritos? It's always burritos. For some more context, they're routinely checked by the police called on them, who also happen to hate them. Turns out open carry political activists tend know gun laws better than 99% of police. If they were loaded, it would constitute a threatening display and they'd be hauled in to jail.

#60 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-28 10:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

60 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-28 10:39 AMFlag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

That's crazy about the gun range. I have never been to one. Or a official one. We have national forrest here in north Ga and they are free and all of the times I have been to one there were no other people there.

#61 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-28 11:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

when was the last time a city folk/gang banger went on a mass shooting spree? Did they use an illegal assualt weapon?

I think gang bangers are more respectable with their automatic weapons or is it that the ammo is too expensive?

#62 | Posted by mutant at 2014-05-28 11:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

when was the last time a city folk/gang banger went on a mass shooting spree? Did they use an illegal assualt weapon?

I think gang banger are more respectable with their automatic weapons or is it that the ammo is too expensive?

#62 | Posted by mutant at 2014-05-28 11:15 AM | Reply | Flag

You are crazy. Everyday is a killing spree in Chicago. And please feel free to show that these "assault weapons are illegal"?

#63 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-28 11:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

my bad - I forgot the quotation marks....check your sarcasm filter too.

#64 | Posted by mutant at 2014-05-28 11:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

I think this is a lame attempt at saving face, but I'll agree to drop the semantics/definition argument for discussion sake.

#45 | Posted by jpw

This wasn't a win or lose argument. You have your opinion and I have mine.

#65 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-28 11:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

I am familiar with Chicago and Detroit - all in the same street....trucking....whoops wrong thought....

anyhooo
show me a similair case of a mass random murder by a crazy gang member/city folk though....city folk mass killings are usually targeted at rivals....not random acts.

www.chicagomag.com

#66 | Posted by mutant at 2014-05-28 11:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

64 | Posted by mutant at 2014-05-28 11:44 AM | Reply | Flag

Oops!

#67 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-28 11:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

show me a similair case of a mass random murder by a crazy gang member/city folk though....city folk mass killings are usually targeted at rivals....not random acts.

There are plenty of random shootings by gang members. Not everybody they target is really a member of another gang. Sometimes people get shot just because they're from another neighborhood.

#68 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-28 12:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

For country folk guns are a tool for sport and sometimes survival. For city folks they are objects of erotic fantasy.

This is silly. Rural people are just as capable of being complete wackjobs as urban ones. Does the name Ed Gein ring a bell? You can generalize about country people being more comfortable around guns because they hunt and are more likely to grow up around them, but to suggest they're always practical about those guns is to ignore reality.

The only reason there are more spree killers from cities is that there are more people in cities. That's why they call them cities.

#69 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-28 12:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then again liberals would be screaming if this was a gay couple that was denied service, they support a business right to refuse to serve on this topic, yet on others they are bigots. Any business should have the right to refuse service to anyone no matter the topic.

#2 | Posted by zack991

Once again you prove the lack of right wing brain power.

Repeat this til you understand it:
You can't discriminate against someone for how they are BORN, only what they DO.

These rednecks weren't born with guns attached to their hands. They CHOOSE to bring them in to the businesses. Whereas gay people are born that way and can't leave their gayness outside.

Get it? If not, just trust that the rest of us do and stop embarrassing yourself.

#70 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-28 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

#69

I think there are more factors at play.
Rural usually is a more relaxed and less stressful lifestyle.
It is not as subject to as much poverty stricken neighborhoods.
Generally speaking the upbringing style lends less to that mentality.
There seems to be more township and family bonds.
Less anonymity.

And so on.
That does not mean it is not possible. But i would imagine that the chances per capita would be lower.

#71 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-28 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

The only reason there are more spree killers from cities is that there are more people in cities.

It may be one of the reasons, but it's not the only reason as you say, rcade. There have been many studies that strongly suggest people living in close proximity to each other (like the inner cities) are more aggressive than those who don't.

#72 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-28 12:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Rural usually is a more relaxed and less stressful lifestyle.
It is not as subject to as much poverty stricken neighborhoods.
Generally speaking the upbringing style lends less to that mentality.
There seems to be more township and family bonds."

Jesus, what is this down-home bullplop?

"#71 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-28 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:"

Oh.

#73 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-28 01:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Jesus, what is this down-home bullplop?"

Well then argue with it.
Show me where i am wrong.
It would be nice to see you do so at least once.

#74 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-28 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

#68 - I know that already - but I stated random mass murders....

....like the school types or the post office types or the island camp types or the movie theatre types...or the McDonalds types...

It just does not happen in the cityfolk culture....or it is extremely rare.

#75 | Posted by mutant at 2014-05-28 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

-down-home bullplop

www.earldibblesjr.com

Play the vid

#76 | Posted by Corky at 2014-05-28 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:


oops

#77 | Posted by mutant at 2014-05-28 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well then argue with it.
Show me where i am wrong.
It would be nice to see you do so at least once.

#74 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-28 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Always cracks me up when someone walks in, sprays the room with diahrea and then arrogantly demands to be taken seriously.

In other words: Its hypocritical of you to make completely unsubstantiated claims and then turn around and demand "proof" from others. I'm not your dad, clean up your own mess.

#78 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-28 01:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Logic tells me that I have no way of knowing if the person is an "enthusiast" or the next mass killer. Logic tells me I have no way of knowing if the weapon is loaded without getting close enough to be shot.
I'm surprised your logic doesn't tell you the same.
#43 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2014-05-27 09:28 PM | FLAG:

By your logic, never, ever leave your house. Close your blinds, lock your doors, never go out again. Every single person you see could be the next mass killer, including your own family members.
#47 | Posted by sitzkrieg


Sorry Charlie, I don't live my life in fear. But I do remain reasonably vigilant about my surroundings. So by my logic I choose to be elsewhere whenever I see people with guns in densely populated areas. Turns out here in California the only people I see doing that are cops, who I try to courteously avoid the same way I do with any gang members.

Now when I've been out in the woods and I see somebody with a weapon I don't worry, because it's reasonable to assume they're either plinking (or whatever you call it when you cut down a tree with a shotgun), hunting (a bit of a worry there seeing as hunters are good at thinking people are deer or bears), or carrying a sidearm for protection. I also don't usually go hiking where/when hunting is permitted, so hopefully the hunters are mistaking others for game.

But if I were at the burger joint and a guy comes in with an "assault weapon" strapped to his back I'm not going to extend to him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his sanity. The risk far outweighs any reward.

#79 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-28 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#78

Just as expected. You have nothing to say so you pretend like no one else does either.

You made no specific claim against anything i said only said it was all crap. That is trolling, but you are a terrible troll. A decent troll pulls someone into an argument with something that is worth arguing about. You just try to start flame wars because you do not have the capacity to do anything else. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it can be fun every now and then but as your only shtick it gets old fast.

#80 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-28 01:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

"#78

Just as expected. You have nothing to say so you pretend like no one else does either."

I had something to say: You posted a bunch of stereotypical crap that isn't true.

"You made no specific claim against anything i said only said it was all crap."

And it still is. Why aren't you holding yourself to the same standard you tried to assign to me? Prove that the crap you posted is true.

"That is trolling, but you are a terrible troll. A decent troll pulls someone into an argument with something that is worth arguing about. You just try to start flame wars because you do not have the capacity to do anything else. Not that there is anything wrong with that, it can be fun every now and then but as your only shtick it gets old fast."

I'm not trolling. I think its counter productive for us to be posting unsubstiate garbage based on regional biases. So I said it was crap because it is. Now you want to make it about me. You'll whine for 10 more posts or so but what you won't do is even attempt to substantiate your nonsense claims.

#81 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-28 02:07 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

"It is not as subject to as much poverty stricken neighborhoods."

Never been to Appalachia?

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-28 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

In a way, it is salutary when gun nut posters such as Salamanda post a string of ridiculous and dishonest claims and assertions. It reminds the rest of us of just how far removed from reality and common sense most gun nuts really are.

#83 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-05-28 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Never been to Appalachia?

#82 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-28 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well it's difficult to stay all worked up about a killin when you have to hike two hollors over.

#84 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-28 02:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

It reminds the rest of us of just how far removed from reality and common sense most gun nuts really are.

#83 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-05-28 02:19 PMFlag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Moder8 would you consider me to be a gun nut? I support the 2nd amendment. I own guns and enjoy hunting. I don't get to go as much as I did before the kids were born. I also think these guys are douchebags b/c they know exactly what they are doing. I wouldn't eat with them and feel like they should respect their fellow citizens by not rubbing their nose in the fact that technically they aren't doing anything wrong but, that doesn't mean they are right either. Just curious what you think a "gun nut" is.

#85 | Posted by Dalton at 2014-05-28 02:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

" Prove that the crap you posted is true."

Need me to prove water is wet too?

"I'm not trolling."

Hmm, insulting rather then arguing. Speaking without knowledge. Attempting to rile someone up without regard to the stupidity of your own statement.
Yup, a troll is the only thing you can be considered.


" I think its counter productive for us to be posting unsubstiate garbage based on regional biases."

Good thing you added regional basis or you would then have to shut up completely.

www.boston.com
www.nature.com
unstats.un.org

Happy now?
Seriously why bother?
You knew you were wrong, so admit you were trolling and then just stop it.

#86 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-28 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

""It is not as subject to as much poverty stricken neighborhoods."
Never been to Appalachia?"

Fewer and further between. Also the density is much lower. We are talking in general after all.

#87 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-28 04:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

www.qualityliferesources.com

www.victimsofcrime.org

www.wired.com

#88 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-28 04:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

But if I were at the burger joint and a guy comes in with an "assault weapon" strapped to his back I'm not going to extend to him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his sanity. The risk far outweighs any reward.

#79 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2014-05-28 01:36 PM | FLAG:

If a guy is walking around with a $20,000+ assault rifle on his back? That's never actually happened as far as I know. Those are collector pieces kept as appreciating financial investments. You can't get the in SoCal without major political donations to the sheriff anyways, you need his signature. Closest in Cali to real assault rifles (minus gang activity)... LA bank robbery, illegally converted rifles, full body armor, pretty obvious. I'd run away from that too.

Activists legally open carrying in an open carry state? Ones that are handing out literature, have been on the news multiple times, are regularly hassled by cops that don't know their own laws? Nah, not running from that, they're not dangerous.

Now for actual gun danger, when things are moving fast and people "into the moment", yeah stay out of the woods & fields. I witnessed a hunting accident opening day of the last dove season. A guy got Dick Cheney'd by his friend. I was the only person in the entire field that went over for 1st aid. Very minor, a single pellet in his cheek, but he was in shock for awhile, and as it wore off he began sobbing uncontrollably. His friends had about the same level of mental trauma. I'm still not sure how they didn't kill somebody else on their drive to the hospital. Interesting day, been hunting since, but hope that kind of day doesn't repeat itself any time soon.

#89 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-28 05:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Happy now?
Seriously why bother?
You knew you were wrong, so admit you were trolling and then just stop it.

#86 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-28 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're such a fraud. You made three claims:

"Rural usually is a more relaxed and less stressful lifestyle.
It is not as subject to as much poverty stricken neighborhoods.
Generally speaking the upbringing style lends less to that mentality.
There seems to be more township and family bonds."

You posted six links. Some of them somewhat support your first claim about stress. I don't know what the divorce stuff is supposed to be about but whatever....

Nothing in there about poverty rates - You know why? Because this claim is total BS. Rural povery rates have always been higher than urban povery rates in the US and I'm sure you came across this when trying to find your links. By now, I'm assuming you know for a fact that you were wrong about this.

The third claim is poorly written but its some kind of claim about the superior upbringing of rural people - This is just a garbage claim that couldn't possibly be substantiated because its entirely subjective. Its the kind of idiotic, biased nonsense morons like Sarah Palin spew when she is trying to manipulate other morons. You couldn't possibly substantiate this asstalk.

Even we just accept your stuff about stress, that still means you are only telling the truth 1 out of 3 times, which makes you mostly full of crap.

#90 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-28 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Activists legally open carrying in an open carry state? Ones that are handing out literature, have been on the news multiple times, are regularly hassled by cops that don't know their own laws? Nah, not running from that, they're not dangerous.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but when the Black Panthers open carried on the capitol steps, CA was quick to outlaw the practice.

#91 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-28 05:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't know what the divorce stuff is supposed to be about but whatever."

Maybe family bonds? Of course you might have to connect a dot rather then have it done for you but i figured my six year old can so you should have been able to as well. I guess i overestimated you, i apologize.

"Rural povery rates have always been higher than urban povery rates in the US and I'm sure you came across this when trying to find your links. By now, I'm assuming you know for a fact that you were wrong about this."

Povery?

Again the slightest bit of thought and you would have come to the same conclusion. By definition the density of rural is less then that of urban areas(even you cannot disagree, or am i giving you to much credit again?). Because of that the poverty stricken neighborhoods are far more dense in urban areas. Again no one would contend that dense areas of poverty are shining examples of human greatness. The denser and larger the neighborhoods in poverty are the higher crime rates are, that much is also a given. Poverty is far more spread out in rural areas. Crime is a correlate of depression, poverty is a correlate of depression. Depression is a key factor in thees instances.
Simple huh?

So yup three for three.

And you would be batting 0.00
Good job Sully.

#92 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-28 05:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Maybe family bonds? Of course you might have to connect a dot rather then have it done for you but i figured my six year old can so you should have been able to as well. I guess i overestimated you, i apologize."

Its not as clear of a connection as you fraudulently claim it is and you'll have to substantiate your claim that divorce rates prove that rural families have better upbringings and stronger family bonds. To me, it doesn't even prove that more couples are staying together. Could just be that getting divorce is a pain the neck in a rural area so couples just split and don't bother with the paperwork. Some people can't afford to get divorced and we already know rural people have less money.

"Poverty is far more spread out in rural areas. Crime is a correlate of depression, poverty is a correlate of depression. Depression is a key factor in thees instances.
Simple huh?"

Except you are more like to be poor if you live in a rural area so wouldn't there be more depressed people, as a percent, in rural areas?

We're still faced with the reality that for everyone word that comes out your mouth, two come out your butt.

#93 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-28 06:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

#93

Funny, you whine that the common sense stuff i posted was unsubstantiated and therefore must be crap. I prove you wrong and all you have is "well prove it more"

Why do you even bother with stuff like this?
It does not matter what is right or what reality is all you care about is what twisted fabrications you come up with. Sully, living outside reality is your choice but it is not a good one. Grow up and join the rest of the world. If not at least stop putting your stupidity on display.

Yes divorce is very strongly tied to family, only an idiot would dispute that. But again you are asking me to prove the trees are green and that only serves to remove any doubt as to your lack of reason.

"Except you are more like to be poor if you live in a rural area so wouldn't there be more depressed people, as a percent, in rural areas?"

Did you not bother to read what i wrote. Crime is a factor in depression just as poverty is. Combine the two in tightly packed areas and simple math tells you what you get.

Are you being serious?
Look, i get that you do not like me. But that is no excuse for you to go around constantly making a fool of yourself.

#94 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-28 06:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Yes divorce is very strongly tied to family, only an idiot would dispute that. But again you are asking me to prove the trees are green and that only serves to remove any doubt as to your lack of reason."

Your claim was specifically that rural people are closer to their families and have better upbringings. You've posted NOTHING to support this asstalk. Stop pretending you have.

Your claim that divorce rates prove how close families are is a tangential bit of asstalk that you also haven't substantiated. Could easily just be that its harder to find a replacement mate in rural areas. Now with online matchmaking, divorce rates in rural and urban areas are increasingly closer.

Every time you try to claim that have substantiated your first claim, you are lying. Your claims about divorce are also unsubstantiated, your delusions the contrary aside.

#95 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-28 06:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

But if you take out Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC and New Orleans,
the United States is 4th from the bottom for Murders.

These 4 Cities also have the toughest Gun Control Laws in the United States.
ALL 4 are controlled by Democrats.

It would be absurd to draw any conclusions from this data – right?

#96 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-05-28 07:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Did you not bother to read what i wrote. Crime is a factor in depression just as poverty is. Combine the two in tightly packed areas and simple math tells you what you get."

What do we get? What % of spree killers are poor? What % come from areas like projects or trailer parks where a lot of poor people live in close proximity?

This last guy? Nope. Lanza? Nope. Columbine kids? Nope.

There's got to be a few but they its obviously not a big factor.

Any other way you need to be proven wrong on this?

"Look, i get that you do not like me. But that is no excuse for you to go around constantly making a fool of yourself."

Says the only guy ever to be banned because it was determined that nobody could that stupid and therefore you must be trolling.

#97 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-28 07:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm not saying you're wrong, but when the Black Panthers open carried on the capitol steps, CA was quick to outlaw the practice.

#91 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2014-05-28 05:42 PM | FLAG:

The BP were also having regular shootouts with police & FBI fighting a race war. It's a text book example of how those with superior political power leverage gun control laws to suppress dissidents.

#98 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-28 07:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You've posted NOTHING to support this asstalk. Stop pretending you have."

Trees are green, water is wet, sully is an idiot. These are universally known as true.
Asking me to prove the obvious is just plain dumb.

"This last guy? Nope. Lanza? Nope. Columbine kids? Nope."

Neither came from the city nor the country but the suburbs. What is your point. The question was asked by Rcade, i gave my input you called me an idiot and i showed that you were wrong. Yet you continue to dig yourself a deeper and deeper hole. I don't get it, there is stupid and then there is you ho is dead set on proving that you are the lowest intellect that can sustain life, why?

Sully, you seem to forget that you have yet to offer one iota of support for anything you say. Yet you want to say that i am troll and go as far as to blatantly lie about me being suspended. You have used that twice and been called out both times and yet continue. You know that i received an apology and that ban was only a few minuets and was because the moderator did not like what i said to him.
Look i am am sorry if i have embarrassed you so many times but it is not helping you case to when you pull crap like this. You know you are lying so what is the point? Are you trying to impress other strangers here by pretending to be someone you are obviously not?
Do you think that if you repeat lies enough times it will magically become true?
Are you just a sad lonely guy with nothing better to do then come up with the most absurd strings of words you can come up with, pretend they are an argument so you can feel better about yourself?
Honestly i pity you, but i do not believe you are as ignorant as you seem. Correct me if i am wrong but i will give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume that you only come across that way because you are being blinded by a dislike for me.
So it's simple, just knock it off, start thinking before you post and don't just take up a different side because you do not like me. Base your opinion on fact and reason. Then we can have a real discussion but until then i see no point in even addressing you anymore. You have yet to make one point or anything remotely resembling on this subject and choose to instead resort to baseless insult.

#99 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-28 07:34 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"Sully, you seem to forget that you have yet to offer one iota of support for anything you say."

I said that there is no way to measure whether urban or rural people have better upbringings or are closer to their families because such things are subjective. Is that controversial?

Is it debatable that a greater % of rural people are poor than urban people?

Is it debatable that there is no link between poverty and rampage killings?

I can tell you what you said that isn't true. Can you tell me what I said that isn't true?

"Yet you want to say that i am troll and go as far as to blatantly lie about me being suspended."

I didn't say you are a troll. I referenced the incident where you were saying dumb stuff and Rcade suspended you for being a troll because he didn't realize that you were serious. He thought you were saying stupid things to get attention. He then unsuspended you when he realize you are sincerely that dumb. That's exactly what happened and you know it. Why pretend you don't know what I'm talking about?

#100 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-28 08:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I suspend your account for trolling.

That crap gets old. It's why Eddie/RonPaul was finally banned. He turned too many discussions into "let's all argue with the stupidest and most provocative person in the room."

Nobody would genuinely defend LaBarbera as much as Sal did without it being trolling.

#148 | Posted by rcade at 2014-04-16 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag:"

www.drudge.com

#101 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-28 08:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's a text book example of how those with superior political power leverage gun control laws to suppress dissidents.
#98 | Posted by sitzkrieg

Well, the Black Panthers are extinct now. Do you think that wouldn't be the case if California hadn't changed their open carry law? I don't.

I think the Black Panther story is a textbook example that no amount of guns will protect you from a government intent on doing you harm. See also: Waco, MOVE, Ruby Ridge (and Whiskey Rebellion for exceptional students.) This is of course in direct contradiction to a certain aspect of the mythology surrounding guns; that they are the ultimate backstop of liberty. Which is why I bring it up.

Of course, the Black Panthers had a political agenda far beyond simply carrying weapons in public. I wonder what the Open Carry folks think of their erstwhile brothers-in-arms the Black Panthers.

#102 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-28 08:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

"But if you take out Chicago, Detroit, Washington DC and New Orleans,
the United States is 4th from the bottom for Murders.

These 4 Cities also have the toughest Gun Control Laws in the United States.
ALL 4 are controlled by Democrats.

It would be absurd to draw any conclusions from this data – right?
#96 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-05-28 07:01 PM"

Are you REALLY attempting to link the cause for the murders to Democrats and gun control?

How about the top 10 states with gun violence?

247wallst.com

The majority are not "controlled by Democrats".

As long as we're drawing absurd conclusions, what about ACTUAL gun ownsership in those four cities? Just because they may have tough gun control laws does not mean there are no longer guns in those cities. On the contrary, I wouldn't be surprised if there continue to be high levels (both in total quantity and per capita) of gun ownership in those cities. From what I've been hearing, those SHOULD be the safest places in the USA, right???

#103 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2014-05-28 08:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Of course, the Black Panthers had a political agenda far beyond simply carrying weapons in public. I wonder what the Open Carry folks think of their erstwhile brothers-in-arms the Black Panthers.

See, New Black Panthers in Houston and open carry of long guns.

#104 | Posted by et_al at 2014-05-28 11:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think the Black Panther story is a textbook example that no amount of guns will protect you from a government intent on doing you harm. See also: Waco, MOVE, Ruby Ridge (and Whiskey Rebellion for exceptional students.) This is of course in direct contradiction to a certain aspect of the mythology surrounding guns

#102 | POSTED BY SNOOFY AT 2014-05-28 08:40 PM | FLAG:

Sounds like you are misinterpreting the "mythology of guns", or maybe even making up your own version. Firearms are no guarantee of success, never have been. I don't know anybody that would suggest otherwise.

There are obviously many examples of dissidents being crushed by heavily armed governments. However there are also many examples of dissidents stalemating or defeating heavily armed governments.

"The Militia" was loyalist, 100 regiments, used gun confiscation for suppression. They were backed by the most powerful army and navy in the entire world. They lost. That's why we have a 2nd Amendment to begin with, The Militia are a necessary evil that can turn on The People.

Right now there are over 49 countries dealing with armed insurrection. FARC has been at it since.. 65? 64? About 50 years. Many resistances flourish despite a massive disparity in artillery, air superiority, and armor.

A right to bear arms doesn't guarantee a win. Neither does massive, overwhelming military superiority.

#105 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-29 08:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

In fact, since you wanted to reference the Whiskey Rebellion, a conflict where iirc, nobody was shot. How about Battle of Blair Mountain? Unions can thank the sacrifice of armed miners who fought a federally backed force of corporate mercenaries. They lost the battle, but won the war. No battle, and they'd never have been bombed by the USAF, which was the key evidence that won for them in court, ultimately winning their war and greatly advancing the rights of workers.

#106 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-29 08:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

sorry, bombed by the US Army Air Corp. USAF didn't exist yet.

#107 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-29 08:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

Of course, the Black Panthers had a political agenda far beyond simply carrying weapons in public. I wonder what the Open Carry folks think of their erstwhile brothers-in-arms the Black Panthers.

#104 | POSTED BY ET_AL AT 2014-05-28 11:23 PM | FLAG:

Yeah, Et Al knows about it. NBP open carries in protests here in Houston. Nobody cares. Even Democrats like Wendy Davis here support open carry.

#108 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-29 08:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

#101

As you were told before i revived an apology on the thread and even an email. But you know this and you are just trying to make your lack of argument somehow better by trying to discredit me with known lies. You truly are pathetic.

#109 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-29 11:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

"As you were told before i revived an apology on the thread and even an email."

Yes, he apologized for calling you a troll when you were just stupid.

For Christ's sake, I posted the actual post where he referred to the stupidity of what you were saying and that he didn't believe anyone could be seriously saying those things.

There is nothing inaccurate about my description of what happened. Deal with it. And don't play victim now either. You brought up the topic of embarassing oneself.

#110 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-29 11:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Yes, he apologized for calling you a troll when you were just stupid."

You want the email?
He apologized because he banned me for calling BS on him.

"As I said in the discussion, I shouldn't have suspended you. I got tired
of being accused of not watching the video I watched. That kind of stuff
derails a discussion."

There now will you finally shut up and stop with the incessant lies?
Maybe sped it doing something useful like attempting to actually think for once. Or read up on critical thinking, logic and reason. That would at least be a start.

#111 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-29 12:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

#111 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-29 12:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

I posted the post where he said you were suspended and specifically said why. You can call me a liar until your wet your pants and I will have still proven that what I said is 100% true.

#112 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-29 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I posted the post where he said you were suspended and specifically said why. "

No you posted a small part where he thought i was trolling. But as he posted later and again apologized in email it was not about that but that he did not like me calling BS.
So lie some more sully apparently it is not beneath you. And yet here is just another time where you and reality are nowhere near each other.
Don;t you ever get tired of being so incredibly wrong?

#113 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-29 12:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So lie some more sully apparently it is not beneath you."

I've already proven that what I said is true.

Crying about is not going to change the fact that at one point you were banned for literally being unbelievably stupid.

#114 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-29 01:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

How do you even live in such a state of denial?

Your words speak for themselves no one but you does not know you are a liar and idiot. Sorry, but sucks to be you.

You need every little thing explained like a toddler, even then you cannot grasp the simplest of concepts. You cannot exist in reality so you make your own and when you are proven wrong(as you so often are) you decide to pretend like it never happened and move to only ignorant insults. You would not know the truth if it bit you in the but, from your track record you would shout that it proves that water is not wet. Like i said, it sucks to be you. But you are not a lost cause, i do not really believe in lost causes. But you deny all opportunity to educate yourself or grow your intellect. That is a poor choice. But it is not to late for you to start using that ugly thing on the top of your neck. SO try it sometime.
But until you can demonstrate the ability to think above the level of a child i am done. Flame wars are fun is small quantities but when that is all you are capable of i just get tired of the same crap. So i will be done with you until you demonstrate that you have more then 3 and a half working brain cells.

#115 | Posted by salamandagator at 2014-05-29 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

So i will be done with you until you demonstrate that you have more then 3 and a half working brain cells.

#115 | Posted by Only Guy Ever to be Banned for Stupidity at 2014-05-29 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

#116 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-29 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

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