Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, May 26, 2014

James Alan Fox: [N]o matter how deeply we probe, it is virtually impossible to identify would-be mass killers before they strike. There are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of citizens whose lives are not unlike [Elliot] Rodger's and who express the same kind of frustrations about their social isolation, yet never translate their disappointment into deadly deeds.

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We certainly cannot legitimately detain someone in a jail cell or psychiatric ward just because they express a desire for revenge, not unless they make some concerted steps towards follow-through. The best we can do is to offer our support and friendship when encountering an isolated and troubled soul, yet most people would choose to avoid such off-putting individuals.

James Alan Fox is a professor of Criminology, Law and Public Policy at Northeastern University.

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What a total fabrication.

These mass-killers are ALL TAKING ANTI-PSYCHOTIC MEDICATION(S).

Professor of Criminology - what a total crock.

#1 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-05-26 01:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well the NSA would tell you if they could scan everyone's computer all the time, they could immediately report you to the cops if you typed the words "kill" or "gun" too many times.

#2 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-26 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

There are thousands, if not tens of thousands, of citizens whose lives are not unlike [Elliot] Rodger's and who express the same kind of frustrations about their social isolation, yet never translate their disappointment into deadly deeds.

Exactly right. Which is why the idea that "beating them as children" is not an answer to the problem.

What are we going to do? Lock all these people with these "signs" in mental wards? Well, if we're not going to take all the guns away, the alternative of putting all these folks away is not as feasible either.

#3 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-05-26 03:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Honestly video games need to be looked at.
EVERY ONE of these killer brats is a huge fan of first person shooters.

The military uses them in training exercises. Maybe their use should be limited to that.

The military USED to train people to shoot at round targets. Then they discovered that if you train them on human-shaped targets it made them more likely to kill humans on the battlefield. The brain normally has a resistance to such behavior, so the military discovered you have to train it out of them by making them practice on human forms.

These video games are not performing that function on millions of people every day.

#4 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-26 03:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

These video games are not performing that function on millions of people every day.

#4 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

Correction - are NOW performing that function

#5 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-26 03:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

#4 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

They have been looked at, scrutinized, compared, and studied:

Ten-country comparison suggests there's little or no link between video games and gun murders. www.washingtonpost.com

The correlation between gun violence and violent shooter games is dubious, but there are some very real links between the two industries, with gun-makers using these virtual worlds to advertise their products. www.thewire.com

Quite simply, the research just hasn't panned out. For one thing, even while video game sales have skyrocketed, youth violence plummeted to its lowest levels in 40 years according to government statistics. Secondly, it has been increasingly recognized that much of the early research on VVG [violent video games] linking them to increased aggression was problematic: most studies used outcome measures that had nothing to do with real-life aggression and failed to control carefully for other important variables, such as family violence, mental health issues or even gender in many studies (boys both play more VVG and are more aggressive.) This was something the U.S. Supreme Court recognized when, after considering California's attempt to ban the sale of VVG to minors in Brown v. EMA, it stated on June 27, 2011, "These studies have been rejected by every court to consider them, and with good reason." techland.time.com

While video game sales have increased, violent crime has been steadily decreasing according to FBI statistics. In 2011, video game sales increased to over $27 billion dollars and violent crimes nationwide decreased 3.8 percent from 2010. Since 2002, violent crime has decreased 15.5 percent. This is all during the time when games like Call of Duty and Halo have dominated sales. http://www.thewire.com/ entertainment/2013/09/dont- blame-violent-video-games- mondays-mass-shooting/69499/

If there's anything the data actually shows, its the possibility that playing violent video games can be an outlet of frustration that youth can use as an alternative to delinquency or violent behavior. The data does not show that there's any significant connection, or even correlation, between video game violence and real world violence by those who play them.

Still think we should talk to the video game companies about scaling back the violence? If so, you are incorrigible.

#6 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-05-26 03:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

If there's anything the data actually shows, its the possibility that playing violent video games can be an outlet of frustration that youth can use as an alternative to delinquency or violent behavior. The data does not show that there's any significant connection, or even correlation, between video game violence and real world violence by those who play them.

Still think we should talk to the video game companies about scaling back the violence? If so, you are incorrigible.

#6 | Posted by rstybeach11

Well having nearly all recent mass killers share an activity is it's own data set. If it were discovered that every mass killer had spent tons of time mountain biking before their killing spree, it would not be a leap to investigate that connecton.

If having people practice on human targets didn't help make them better killers, the military wouldn't be doing it.

www.foxnews.com

americanfreepress.net

I'm not saying it's causing this. It's probably a contributing factor. Along with big pharma and crappy parenting.

#7 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-26 04:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sure there is: go to wall st., and look down.

#8 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-26 05:29 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

He's right. It's impossible to stop crime before it happens in this way. NOT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE ARE ON MEDS and even if they were would the NRA nut bags support preventing people on meds from getting guns? I don't thikn so. It has been a proven way to limit these kinds of massacres and that's by making it hard to get a gun. Other sane countries figured this out. It says a lot about white conservatives that they want to make voting as hard as possible but buying a gun as easy as possible.

#9 | Posted by ron81 at 2014-05-26 10:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

It says a lot about white conservatives that they want to make voting as hard as possible but buying a gun as easy as possible.

#9 | Posted by ron81

Well they only want voting to be hard for people who usually vote dem. Voter fraud is much more rampant with mail-on ballots than in-person fraud. But repubs didn't want to limit mail-in ballots because those have historically favored repub candidates. Instead they went after the nearly non-existent "problem" of in-person voter fraud.

#10 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-26 10:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

""it is virtually impossible to identify would-be mass killers before they strike""

Hint.. If they have a gun, or many guns, they are much more dangerous
a few years ago here in Arizona, a guy armed with a knife went on a rampage in his former place of employment. A lot of folks were injured
BUT NO ONE DIED all of the injured folks were treated and sent home THAT SAME DAY

#11 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-05-26 10:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Other sane countries figured this out.

How many of those countries have (had) a Second Amendment equivalent?

...buying a gun as easy as possible.

You must not be aware, CA has some the most restrictive gun laws in the US. How did those work out here?

#12 | Posted by et_al at 2014-05-26 10:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Honestly video games need to be looked at.
EVERY ONE of these killer brats is a huge fan of first person shooters.
The military uses them in training exercises. Maybe their use should be limited to that.
The military USED to train people to shoot at round targets. Then they discovered that if you train them on human-shaped targets it made them more likely to kill humans on the battlefield. The brain normally has a resistance to such behavior, so the military discovered you have to train it out of them by making them practice on human forms.
These video games are not performing that function on millions of people every day.
#4 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-26 03:07 PM

To the drugged and openly programmable mind they are repetitive in teaching murder as a skill, yes.

Consider how much money these games make and you get that alleged 10 nation study. If they are not including the fact that anti-psychotics and anti-depressants promote a programmability then the studies are almost worthless. They calmly, almost casually murder their friends and family - there is a 100% connection between learning the behavior of a killer and incorporating it.

"Energy flows where attention goes."

#13 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-05-26 11:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

#13 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBO

Then how do you explain the fact that the U.S. has experienced a drop in the juvenile violent crime rate while simultaneously experiencing the largest jump in violent video game use of all time?

Interesting how the correlation goes in the regress, as in the FACT that the more youth play violent video games, the LESS they act deviently or violently.

#14 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-05-27 12:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Video games make people violent". The same has been said about books, music and movies.

There's not a lick of evidence showing any mass killer was ultimately influenced by video games, music or whatever. Remember when people thought that Columbine was caused by Marilyn Manson?

Mass killers end up killing because of who they are. Elliot Rodgers hated women and got his kicks from BMWs and YouTube. We would never argue that BMWs and YouTube made him into a mass killer.

#15 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2014-05-27 02:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

.... "No Way to ID Mass Killers Before They Strike"

**** SURE THERE IS! Just collect all the names of the people who make up the US Govt and the US Military...in other words all the names of the WAR MONGERS!!!

#16 | Posted by AntiCadillac at 2014-05-27 02:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

"CA has some the most restrictive gun laws in the US."

That doesn't mean they are actually very restrictive.

#17 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-05-27 07:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

He's right. It's impossible to stop crime before it happens in this way. NOT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE ARE ON MEDS and even if they were would the NRA nut bags support preventing people on meds from getting guns? I don't thikn so.
#9 | POSTED BY RON81 AT 2014-05-26 10:12 PM | FLAG:

You thikn wrong.

The NRA came out for restricting the 2nd Amendment rights of people on mind-altering drugs. This was the most significant piece of common ground that was completely lost by partisan hacks after Sandy Hook.

There could have been meaningful reform. Instead there was a failed attempt to limit cosmetic accessories.

#18 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-27 08:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

LaPierre would later call for a national registry of Americans with mental illnesses while blasting the idea of such a database for gun owners as outright tyranny.

Yup. Sure have to wade through a lot of ads for the NRA members-only discount prescription drug card to find any info.

#19 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-05-27 09:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

People were concerned about this latest shooter before he acted.

#20 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-27 09:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

Honestly video games need to be looked at. EVERY ONE of these killer brats is a huge fan of first person shooters.

I haven't seen any mention of Rodger liking FPS games. He does write about how much he liked playing Banjokazooie on the Nintendo 64. Maybe the jaunty background music in that game contains a subliminal message to kill.

#21 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-27 10:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

This was the most significant piece of common ground that was completely lost by partisan hacks after Sandy Hook.

There was another significant piece of common ground shot down by the NRA after Newtown: universal background checks. I have trouble believing the NRA would support any law restricting guns, even if tied to mental illness. They would back off support at the last minute and claim their menbers demanded it.

#22 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-27 10:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

Mass killers end up killing because of who they are. Elliot Rodgers hated women and got his kicks from BMWs and YouTube. We would never argue that BMWs and YouTube made him into a mass killer.

----------

That is because bmws and google have more bribe money for congress. The whole thing is a shakedown. When I was a kid some jack#$% decided to murder a couple people over a game of Monopoly.

#23 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-27 10:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

When I was a kid some jack#$% decided to murder a couple people over a game of Monopoly.

I'll bet he was stuck being the iron and wanted the dog.

#24 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-27 10:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Honestly video games need to be looked at. EVERY ONE of these killer brats is a huge fan of first person shooters."
I haven't seen any mention of Rodger liking FPS games. He does write about how much he liked playing Banjokazooie on the Nintendo 64. Maybe the jaunty background music in that game contains a subliminal message to kill.
#21 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-27 10:01 AM

Alright, then lets amend that to also include other types of "violent resolution scenarios". There are commonplace factors, learned murderous behavior is absolutely how they express their psychosis. Some never learn to use guns or have access to any, and so are left with knives, etc. They all go into psychosis where none of them express emotions as they almost absently murder randomly.

This latest one is little different, I'm a tad freaked out to watch how calmly Rodger makes his explanation video.

#25 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-05-27 10:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

He's also a little older than most of the mass-killers - his anger was allegedly specifically toward women who rejected him as a potential mate.

#26 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-05-27 11:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

I have trouble believing the NRA would support any law restricting guns

#22 | POSTED BY RCADE AT 2014-05-27 10:02 AM | FLAG:

Bear in mind, I own guns, but am not an NRA member. They're spammers, it's annoying. That said, they support significant gun control measures and to suggest otherwise is an intentional distortion or deep misunderstanding of the NRA.

They repeatedly ask for the laws on the books that restrict gun ownership to be enforced. They support state level projects that restrict gun ownership. They support the NFA & FFA, both major restrictions on what you can own.

...and "Universal background Checks" aren't common ground once you actually get past the polls and into the details. Patient privacy laws have to be reformed for the list to work anyways, but that's another conversation.

Here's something you won't want to believe but is also true. In California, where the NRA spent a mere $20,000 in an entire year, where they have many of the wish list items from gun control groups including a state registry, "universal background checks", capacity limits, accessory limits, 30-day waiting periods, gun free zones, a lead ammo ban, and until recently even ammo purchase limits... a locked door did more to protect people than any of those laws.

#27 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-27 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

#27 | Posted by sitzkrieg

I assume you have links to the NRA's support of any of those things since Sandy Hook?

#28 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-27 11:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

... a locked door did more to protect people than any of those laws.

That's technically true, but a silly argument nonetheless. The door wasn't impregnable. He didn't try to break it down or get in through a window. He just gave up after two minutes and found his goal of killing random sorority coeds was easily achieved elsewhere. He walked around 20 steps and ran into three Tri-Delt members, shooting them and killing two.

#29 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-27 12:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

#25 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBOT

Millions of people engage in "violent resolution scenarios" (including playing VERY violent video games) everyday without committing mass murder, let alone murder.

How can you explain this within your assertion that violent video games (or "violent resolution scenarios") are significantly correlated with mass murder?

#30 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-05-27 01:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Right wingers that are obsessed with guns and block even the most basic gun laws have blood on their hands. We are the only modern country that doesn't have basic national gun laws. Losers claiming California has strict gun laws is ridiculous, They a re not strict at all. Anyone can buy a gun at anytime. Even assault style weapons, military grade 50 cal sniper rifles. EVERYTHING. I went to a gun store in the bay area and was blown away by the kind of guns that were for sale. An arsenal that would make any gun nut proud. Cali regulations my rear. This country has a gun sickness that needs to be cured. A sickness that is making the gun manufacturers and the NRA rich beyond belief. No wonder they hate regulations.

#31 | Posted by ron81 at 2014-05-27 01:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

This country has a gun sickness that needs to be cured.

Yes but getting rid of the guns doesn't cure the sickness anymore than vicodin cures back pain.

#32 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-05-27 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Personally, I think the main problem is with America's entire violence and gun glorifying culture. It is who we are. So the body count shall go on. And not only here, but also in those unfortunate foreign who feel entitled or justified in attacking or invading as part of our macho violence-loving mindset.

#33 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-05-27 01:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

I went to a gun store in the bay area and was blown away by the kind of guns that were for sale. An arsenal that would make any gun nut proud. Cali regulations my rear.

#31 | POSTED BY RON81 AT 2014-05-27 01:10 PM | FLAG:

You can't just go buy anything in there though. Want a handgun? First you need to take the written exam. Want 2? Nope, you must wait. Want full auto? Not without a federal firearms license, which you can't get because it requires a signature from a sheriff not available anywhere but in very rural parts of California. Want a .50cal BMG? Nope, not unless you bought it before 1989 unless you have unobtainable DOJ permission.

#34 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-27 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here you go speaksoftly... can't wait to hear your crusade against Ice Cream and IE.

www.buzzfeed.com

#35 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2014-05-27 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'll bet he was stuck being the iron and wanted the dog.

--------------

Must have been the reason.

#36 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-27 03:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Personally, I think the main problem is with America's entire violence and gun glorifying culture. It is who we are. So the body count shall go on. And not only here, but also in those unfortunate foreign who feel entitled or justified in attacking or invading as part of our macho violence-loving mindset.

#33 | Posted by moder8

Yep. -Jesse James

#37 | Posted by wisgod at 2014-05-27 03:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

From The Onion:

ISLA VISTA, CA -- In the days following a violent rampage in southern California in which a lone attacker killed seven individuals, including himself, and seriously injured over a dozen others, citizens living in the only country where this kind of mass killing routinely occurs reportedly concluded Tuesday that there was no way to prevent the massacre from taking place. "This was a terrible tragedy, but sometimes these things just happen and there's nothing anyone can do to stop them," said North Carolina resident Samuel Wipper, echoing sentiments expressed by tens of millions of individuals who reside in a nation where over half of the world's deadliest mass shootings have occurred in the past 50 years and whose citizens are 20 times more likely to die of gun violence than those of other developed nations. "It's a shame, but what can we do? There really wasn't anything that was going to keep this guy from snapping and killing a lot of people if that's what he really wanted." At press time, residents of the only economically advanced nation in the world where roughly two mass shootings have occurred every month for the past five years were referring to themselves and their situation as "helpless."

#38 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-05-27 05:35 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

With 310+ million population in the USA, what are the odds of being the victim of a mass shooting in a given year? Probably a lot less than being struck by lightning in a given year.

What rationale would justify the overblown need to peel away the same supposed freedoms and rights that many hundreds of thousands in our military have allegedly died for over 250 years, as an absurd attempt to prevent something of astronomical odds from ever occurring? Utopian safety can not and never will be legislated because people are people and they do unforeseen things. I'll take my chances with freedom.

#39 | Posted by Robson at 2014-05-27 11:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Utopian safety can not and never will be legislated because people are people and they do unforeseen things."

Yep... mass shootings are just the American version of the suicide bomber in other places.

Can't stop them, can't find them until it's too late. Could happen anywhere at any time.

Might as well just get used to it.

#40 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-05-28 01:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

Yep... mass shootings are just the American version of the suicide bomber in other places.

I sure hope Al Qaeda doesn't see the obvious parallel. I mean, one guy already did at Fort Hood, but so far he's the only one.

#41 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-28 06:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Honestly video games need to be looked at.
EVERY ONE of these killer brats is a huge fan of first person shooters."

#4 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-26 03:07 PMFlag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

DO you share the same Cause/Effect relationship when extrapolated to Pornography having a piece to play in Child Molesting, Rape, and Sexual Assault, and Misogyny in general?

"The military USED to train people to shoot at round targets."
Thoughts on those "No more Hesitation" Targets of Kids and Pregnant women bought up by the Gov't recently?

#42 | Posted by GotTruth at 2014-05-28 07:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Thoughts on those "No more Hesitation" Targets of Kids and Pregnant women bought up by the Gov't recently?"

Same idea. You know the military and the government are the same thing, right?

#43 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-05-28 07:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

These mass-killers are ALL TAKING ANTI-PSYCHOTIC MEDICATION(S).
Professor of Criminology - what a total crock.
#1 | Posted by redlightrobot

What I find fascinating is that the Left in this country refuses to look at the real problem and that is mental health. In other countries, guns are regularly available but "Mass Murder" doesn't happen.

#44 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-05-28 07:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

What I find fascinating is that the Left in this country refuses to look at the real problem and that is mental health. In other countries, guns are regularly available but "Mass Murder" doesn't happen.
#44 | Posted by LastAmerican

This again?
Let me guess: Obamacare mandates mental health coverage, and you hate Obamacare.

#45 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-28 01:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

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