Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, May 22, 2014

More than 100 McDonald's employees and some labor and clergy members were arrested after protesting for increased wages near the fast-food chain's headquarters in Oak Brook, Illinois. The event, the latest in a series of demonstrations by workers demanding $15-an-hour pay and the right to form a union, began at 1 p.m. Wednesday, on the eve of McDonald's shareholder meeting. "We deserve a livable wage," said Melinda Topel, a 43-year-old employee who makes $7.50 an hour and receives government assistance to buy food.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

What kind if person stays in an entry level (min wage) job? Get some ambition and move on.

#1 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-22 10:27 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

I'm assuming by your comment that you have a higher paying job to offer these people?

#2 | Posted by Sezu at 2014-05-22 10:29 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

Makes you think if they put this much energy in getting a real career they would be doing quiet well.

#3 | Posted by zack991 at 2014-05-22 10:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

Skilled IT jobs are paying $15 an hour and you want $15 an hour to flip burgers?

#4 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-22 10:46 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

That must be why there are so many unemployed; they aren't working hard enough. (end sarcasm)

#5 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-22 10:46 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

It'd would be funny if not so sad. McDonalds has a program that pays you to go to college. They have a management training program. They offer assistance in buying your own eatery. Opportunity after opportunity is offered.

#6 | Posted by gracieamazed at 2014-05-22 10:46 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

It is mind boggling that the "living wage" crew is fixated on the fast food industry.

This is an industry that is a magnet for high school kids looking to work a summer job.

#7 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-22 10:56 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I'm assuming by your comment that you have a higher paying job to offer these people?

#2 | Posted by Sezu

If you start out as a ditch digger with a number 2 round point, would you retire in that same job? Move up or move out.

#8 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-22 11:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

Skilled IT jobs are paying $15 an hour and you want $15 an hour to flip burgers?

#4 | Posted by boaz

It's the old 'supply and demand' thingie. Good crop of oranges and they are cheep. Frost gets half the crop in the spring, they ain't so cheep.

#9 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-22 11:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

This is an industry that is a magnet for high school kids looking to work a summer job.

#7 | Posted by JeffJ

Except they don't hire under 18 anymore. My son's been trying. He's 17, nice kid, polite, knows how to dress for an interview, can't even get one at fast food places.

#10 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-05-22 11:13 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Skilled IT jobs are paying $15 an hour ...

#4 | Posted by boaz

I know, imagine how low it would be if all those burger flippers became IT pros.

#11 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-05-22 11:15 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Get some ambition and move on.

#1 | POSTED BY SNIPER

Poor people need to stop bring poor.

Just stop it!

#12 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

This is an industry that is a magnet for high school kids looking to work a summer job.

#7 | Posted by JeffJ

It use to be. But since so many middle class opportunities have been gutted by the oligarchy, these types of jobs are the only thing left for a lot of people.

It's a meme that's been floating around the internet for a while, but it answers the sentiment from some of you quite well..

"Even if everyone worked hard and went to college, someone would still need to make our pizza, stock our shelves, and drive our cabs.

Quite looking down on them and assuming they deserved to live in poverty."

#13 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-22 11:17 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Skilled IT jobs are paying $15 an hour ...

#4 | Posted by boaz

Maybe starting wage.

Because if that is true then skilled IT workers are also being underpaid.

But I know that isn't true. Because I work in IT. And I can read, too!

#14 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 11:22 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"It use to be. But since so many middle class opportunities have been gutted by the oligarchy, these types of jobs are the only thing left for a lot of people."

so why does McDs own the responsibility???

It's a failure of policies that haven't provided the pathways for industries to be growing in areas that can provide meaningful employment.

#15 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2014-05-22 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

"It use to be. But since so many middle class opportunities have been gutted by the oligarchy, these types of jobs are the only thing left for a lot of people."

so why does McDs own the responsibility???

It's a failure of policies that haven't provided the pathways for industries to be growing in areas that can provide meaningful employment.

#16 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2014-05-22 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

But I know that isn't true. Because I work in IT. And I can read, too!

I'm in IT as well and I have been navigating this job market. Only SENIOR people are making any money in IT. Try getting a job as a System admin in Windows. No one is paying more than $20 an hour. Period. Even in the Charlotte and RTP area here in N.C.

There's a glut of IT.

Now if you are a developer, well....Salaries are well into six figures..

#17 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-22 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

And in IT, they want you to hit the ground running. No one wants to train anyone in IT..Trust me, I know..

Especially in SharePoint, which is very hot right now. If you are a SharePoint developer, you are writing your own ticket. They are even advertising SharePoint admin jobs with the hope of attracting anyone who know ANYTHING about development.

I'm a SharePoint Admin. I going to have to become a SharePoint developer, because that's what the market wants..

#18 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-22 11:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

Boaz,

Make the jump to Linux/Unix admin and watch the salary jump too.

#19 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2014-05-22 11:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

Your lucky if you can find a job flipping burgers in the Obama economy. But don't worry Obama's not cutting back on his hundreds of tax payer golf round or lavish vacations.

Let them eat cake!

#20 | Posted by mcmlcxx at 2014-05-22 11:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

Want more money from McDonalds? Move up to corporate.

#21 | Posted by sames1 at 2014-05-22 11:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

These workers deliver a living wage. Once upon a time perhaps working at a McDonalds was a Summer job for teens or just a way to get a little extra spending money in the pocket. That time has long passed. Thousands upon thousands of responsible adults support thmeselves and their children with jobs at fast food restaurants. Telling these workers to go get a better job or better skills shows a spiteful and narrow minded lack of comprehension as to the realities of our economy. I despise the fact that many of you wish to cast this situation in a political light. This is a societal reality. Either we face up to it, or we are just self righteous ignorant --------.

#22 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-05-22 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

Make the jump to Linux/Unix admin and watch the salary jump too.

I taught Linux/CENTOS Os at a college.

But you have to be doing Linux everyday or you will forget it..

#23 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-22 12:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Moder8, Fast Food isn't a career. If the only fix we do is to artificially inflate it to one we are making a mistake.

I'd rather these types of jobs remain low paying "side" jobs. If the economy is forcing skilled workers into these roles, I would gladly provide assistance to make ends meet until the real economic issues can be fixed. This is the real issue, the lack of jobs that require a skill. What we pay a job that was designed for High School kids to earn some extra cash isn't the issue.

I say this as my fear is elevating these truly low skill jobs to a pay level that someone can legit support a family on will remove a tremendous amount of motivation for the current and next generations of students.

Why would one push themselves to excel if they can do the absolute minimum and exit High School, and get a nothing job and be able to afford a place to live, a nice TV, the newest Iphone/Android, a car...etc..

This will be another step in the race to the bottom.

#24 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2014-05-22 12:26 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 4

This is a societal reality.

Moder8, economic reality is that people with marketable skills get paid more than people who drop frozen french fries into hot oil.

#25 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-22 12:29 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#24: A big fat frakkin NW!

#26 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-05-22 12:31 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Boaz,

I'm sorry you had to deal with CentOS ... though it hasn't driven me to Windows.

Give a Debian variant a try, try out puppet or chef, and pick up a ruby book.

If you can even hint at knowing these things in combo... hello 6 figs. Get an Amazon AWS account and just get acquainted with some of the basics of EC2, S3, and EBS... and you're a lock.

#27 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2014-05-22 12:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

"There's a glut of IT."

If you are dumb enough to stay in NC where they apparently pay crap wages that is your problem. Maybe you live there for the great health care or something.

I would give you this sage advice: "Get some ambition and move on."

This is the Information Age.

So IT workers are the new sweat shop workers of the Industrial Age.

So it is understandable that entry level positions are a dime a dozen and entry level wages are low.

But you said "skilled".

A skilled IT worker can command a wage commensurate with his skill level.

Tech jobs in Silicon Valley paid the highest salaries in any U.S. metropolitan area, with workers there making an average annual salary of $108,603 in 2013, a 7.2 increase from 2012.

www.pcworld.com

#28 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why do so many people want to push our already fragile economy into an inflationary spiral? If minimum wage is raised to $15/hr, the goods and services provided by the unskilled will increase in price. This is inevitable. But more importantly, the skilled laborers who make $15/hr will have no incentive to better themselves and go straight from HS to a meaningless job. That of course will make more of a demand for the skilled laborer, so his salary will increase with the demand for his skill set. With his increased salary, cost of living and housing go up with the increased competition in higher worker salaries

In a few years, the burger makers will be whining that they can't live on $15/hr because of the increased cost of living and they will demand $25.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

#29 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-22 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

#24 | Posted by kwrx25

One hell of a post, but one liberals will not be able to understand, partially because you have just described them to a tee in that post..

#30 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-22 12:52 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Tech jobs in Silicon Valley

That's where you lost me.

I'll shovel ---- in N.C. before I move anywhere past the Mississippi..

#31 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-22 12:53 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Sorry, but the BABYBOOMERS shipped all the good jobs overseas. The Younger Generations will suffer with part-time, low pay, high debt, and no mobility

THANKS MOM AND DAD

#32 | Posted by cmbell73 at 2014-05-22 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I'll shovel ---- in N.C. before I move anywhere past the Mississippi..

#31 | Posted by boaz

Then you will always be paid ---- wages.

Enjoy.

#33 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 01:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I'll shovel ---- in N.C. before I move anywhere past the Mississippi..
#31 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Coward.

:-)

#34 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-05-22 01:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry, but the BABYBOOMERS shipped all the good jobs overseas. The Younger Generations will suffer with part-time, low pay, high debt, and no mobility
THANKS MOM AND DAD

#32 | POSTED BY CMBELL73

Is that you Chelsea?

#35 | Posted by shirtsbyeric at 2014-05-22 01:24 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

I'll shovel ---- in N.C. before I move anywhere past the Mississippi..
#31 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2014-05-22 12:53 PM

That's fine. Once energy companies finish franking the state into oblivion ---- shoveler will probably be the only job available.

#36 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-05-22 01:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Coward.

HA! :)

#37 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-22 01:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then you will always be paid ---- wages.

I don't think so. I never said I was paid $15 an hour. And anywhere the wage is higher, you can best bet the cost of living is too..

What good is it to make 150K when it takes 90K just to base live?

#38 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-22 01:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

What good is it to make 150K when it takes 90K just to base live?

#38 | Posted by boaz

I think you miss the point.

You move to where the higher wages are...increase your salary potential and then you can demand a higher wage back home in N.C.(if that is where you really want to end up).

It is a all a shell game and the game is rigged.

But, you knew that. Right?

Regardless, these McDonald's workers are entitled to a bit more of a share of the $5 billion in yearly profits they are helping to generate.

Why do so many people want to push our already fragile economy into an inflationary spiral?

Nonsense.

I am pretty sure sharing a bit of that profit with the workers won't bring down the economy or send it into an inflationary tailspin.

#39 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 01:47 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#24 | Posted by kwrx25

Good post. It got splashed a bit by Boaz's myopia, but nothing a damp cloth won't take care of.

I don't know that the severity you suggest is warranted, however, and the complexity of the issue dwarfs the subject of this thread.
While I think that in some ways, raising the minimum wage is good, but I think fifteen was quite a jump.

I think your concern about ambition could certainly apply to some people, but I think those people tend to be UNambitious already.
As for the others, "Why push themselves to excel?" Because they want to. Because it's personally important to them. Money enough to get by on and have some "things" is enough for the former, but not the latter.

#40 | Posted by TheTom at 2014-05-22 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thetom,

I agree that the rate of the min wage is to stagnate, but echo that 15 is a large jump.

I fully realize that there are the unambitious and that my scenario would of course apply to them. On the other hand of course there will be others who are driven to succeed no matter what cushion would await them if they chose not to.

My focus is the remainder in the middle. How many of them will decide that it's not worth the effort to struggle to succeed when they realize those that have given up the struggle are ensured a comfortable, albeit minimally comfortable, but still comfortable life?

Again, this is a symptom and not the illness. We need to fix our economy so that actual careers exist, and not teenagers gas money jobs.

#41 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2014-05-22 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Poor people need to stop bring poor.

Just stop it!

#12 | Posted by donnerboy

They need to finish high school, learn proper English, and learn a SKILL. Might not be a bad idea to hide some of their tats and get rid of all the rings all over their face. Get a damn clue donnie.

#42 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-22 02:31 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

There's a glut of IT.

Now if you are a developer, well....Salaries are well into six figures..

#17 | Posted by boaz

Supply and demand.

#43 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-22 02:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'll shovel ---- in N.C. before I move anywhere past the Mississippi..

#31 | Posted by boaz

And I would not want to go east of the Mississippi.

#44 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-22 02:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry, but the BABYBOOMERS shipped all the good jobs overseas. The Younger Generations will suffer with part-time, low pay, high debt, and no mobility

THANKS MOM AND DAD

#32 | Posted by cmbell73

Way oversimplified. There are MANY things that drive up the cost of producing something here in the USA. One huge driver is all the government regulations on business.

#45 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-22 02:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think you miss the point.

You move to where the higher wages are...increase your salary potential and then you can demand a higher wage back home in N.C.(if that is where you really want to end up).

#39 | Posted by donnerboy

What dream world do you live in.

#46 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-22 02:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

If minimum wage is raised to $15/hr, the goods and services provided by the unskilled will increase in price.

Whew! Thank God no prices have increased at all since min wage was increased to $7.25/hr. We dodged a bullet there.

#47 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-22 02:40 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Whew! Thank God no prices have increased at all since min wage was increased to $7.25/hr. We dodged a bullet there.
#47 | Posted by 726

What country do you live in? Wait. Prices are going up everywhere.

What planet are you on?

#48 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-05-22 03:09 PM | Reply | Flag:


Get a damn clue donnie.
#42 | Posted by Sniper

It's the willful ignorance of the Left that makes them such useful idiots.

#49 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-05-22 03:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Might not be a bad idea to hide some of their tats and get rid of all the rings all over their face. Get a damn clue donnie.

#42 | Posted by Sniper

uh huh. THAT is exactly why so many poor people are poor.

Or maybe it has to do with the fact that CEO Pay Has Increased About 876 PERCENT Since 1978 or 125% more than worker wages.

Middle class incomes have barely moved since the 1980s.

#50 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 03:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

You move to where the higher wages are...increase your salary potential and then you can demand a higher wage back home in N.C.(if that is where you really want to end up).

#39 | Posted by donnerboy

What dream world do you live in.

#46 | Posted by Sniper

Yeah a dream world...called California. California Dreamin...that's me.

Anyway...It worked for me. Turns out though when I was offered that higher paying IT job back home I didn't want to go.

I kinda like it here in the future.

#51 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 03:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

In a few years, the burger makers will be whining that they can't live on $15/hr because of the increased cost of living and they will demand $25.

Wash, rinse, repeat.

#29 | Posted by goatman

Start with a higher wage and then tie increases to a reliable cost of living index. Why would that be a problem?

#52 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-22 03:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#45 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-22 02:39 PM | Reply | Flag

Oversimplified???? Yet you agree.

So if you blame the Government for the problems we are facing today, Then you are blaming the BABYBOOMERs.....They are the ones in charge right now

#53 | Posted by cmbell73 at 2014-05-22 03:57 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Regardless, these McDonald's workers are entitled to a bit more of a share of the $5 billion in yearly profits they are helping to generate.

What? Why?

#54 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-22 04:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Start with a higher wage and then tie increases to a reliable cost of living index.

The cost of living may pass what the labor is worth.

#55 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-22 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Regardless, these McDonald's workers are entitled to a bit more of a share of the $5 billion in yearly profits they are helping to generate.

They already got what they were entitled to, it's called a paycheck. And dropping fries or putting a burger together isn't worth much.

#56 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-22 04:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Regardless, these McDonald's workers are entitled to a bit more of a share of the $5 billion in yearly profits they are helping to generate.

What? Why?

#54 | Posted by boaz

Seriously?

Shirley you can't be that dense.

I bet you didn't know that McDonalds workers in Denmark make $21 an hour.

Why? Because they fought for it.

McDonald's in Denmark has been making waves with American workers who are demanding for a Raise to the Wage. While American workers are struggling for a raise to $15 an hour, McDonald's workers in Denmark have obtained an agreement between their union and the company which guarantees that workers older than 18 are paid at least $21 an hour.

So why does McDonald's pay American workers so much less? The answer is simple: because they can.

Want to get an even bigger shock? McDonald's workers in Denmark receive paid sick leave. They also get overtime pay… and guaranteed hours… and at least two days off a week.

Workers in Denmark point out that McDonald's didn't give them their union. They had to fight for it. It took a five-year struggle that involved many rallies and demonstrations. If workers in the U.S. want similar worker's rights, then they are going to have to organize and fight for them, the same way that their co-workers on the other side of the pond had to.

countercurrentnews.com

#57 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 04:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

And dropping fries or putting a burger together isn't worth much.

#56 | Posted by boaz

Seems to me it's worth at least $5 bn.

#58 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-05-22 04:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Seems to me it's worth at least $5 bn.

#58 | Posted by TFDNihilist

That is just the yearly profit. Their yearly revenues are more like $27.5 billion.

#59 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 04:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

If the Government was so concerned about "Living Wages" how about NOT TAXING their Payroll Checks. Pretty simple solution

#60 | Posted by cmbell73 at 2014-05-22 04:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Their yearly revenues are more like $27.5 billion.

#59 | Posted by donnerboy

Yea, but according to guys like Boaz, only the Executives at the top helped bring in that cash. The front line employees have no role in McD's success.

#61 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-05-22 05:07 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

While McDonald's respects the protesters' right to peacefully demonstrate and to choose whether they want to join a union, the company is "focused on welcoming our shareholders tomorrow," said Heidi Barker Sa Shekhem, a spokeswoman, in an interview yesterday.

Ahead of the protests, McDonald's encouraged most of its 3,200 headquarters employees to work from home because of traffic concerns, Sa Shekhem said. Of its five headquarters buildings, McDonald's closed one, which houses its U.S. business and employs about 2,000, she said.

The protesters were planning to picket the headquarters at 2111 McDonald's Drive. Because of the shutdown, they instead targeted the nearby McDonald's campus that houses Hamburger University and a Hyatt Lodge.

"The closing reflects McDonald's refusal to address the growing concerns of workers and failure to take action to raise wages," Deivid Rojas, communications director for the Workers Organizing Committee of Chicago, said in a statement. The protesters had planned to return to McDonald's headquarters today when its shareholder meeting begins.

..

McDonald's has more than 35,400 restaurants worldwide. In the U.S., about 90 percent of its locations are owned by franchisees, who determine pay, Sa Shekhem said. McDonald's pays above the minimum wage in most cases, she said. Still, raising pay to $15 an hour is unrealistic, Sa Shekhem said.

"But we know that a minimum wage increase will happen over time and we'll look to the folks in Washington to determine what that is," she said.

So, they made their corporate workforce stay at home while the unsightly arrests were made. How tactical.

#62 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-05-22 05:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Start with a higher wage and then tie increases to a reliable cost of living index. Why would that be a problem?

#52 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT AT 2014-05-22 03:42 PM

See post #29. The problem with that was explained.

#63 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-22 06:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Burger flippers need to get over it. People who don't strive to expand their professional vocabulary above "Do you want fries with that?" will never make much money, no matter how much the cry and blame someone else. More victims -- and I'll bet they are for the most part proggies.

#64 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-22 06:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

See post #29. The problem with that was explained.

#63 | Posted by goatman

See post #13. The problem with that was explained.

#65 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-22 06:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Regardless, these McDonald's workers are entitled to a bit more of a share of the $5 billion in yearly profits they are helping to generate."

You do realize that you are only talking about approximate 20% of the workers as 80 percent work in franchise stores. The only way to share in the corporate profits is to buy and hold stock ing the company; that's how it works.

#66 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-05-22 06:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

The cost of living may pass what the labor is worth.

#55 | Posted by boaz

You want corporations to maximize profits for wealthy shareholders on the backs of cheap labor.. AND you want a good economy. I don't know why some of you can't understand, you really can't have both. It's not sustainable.

#67 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-22 06:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

See post #13. The problem with that was explained.

#65 | Posted by Whatsleft

Goatman apparently thinks that no one should ever get a COLA.

No COLA regardless of what happens in the world around you.

Unless you are a CEO, of course.

Then you should get a 876 PERCENT increase. Plus a yearly bonus no matter what.

Middle Class Wages have been stagnant and have failed to keep up with inflation since at least the 1980s.

It even has a name.

It's called the Middle-class Squeeze.

en.wikipedia.org

#68 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 06:45 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

See post #13. The problem with that was explained.

???

#69 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-22 06:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

Predictable entitlement-mentality lib whining about profits, and all for spending OPM. YOU libs hire these entry-level workers for $25/hr.

#70 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-05-22 07:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Predictable entitlement-mentality lib whining about profits, and all for spending OPM. YOU libs hire these entry-level workers for $25/hr.

#70 | POSTED BY GREATAMERICAN

Great point. There have been several liberals here who claim to own a business. Do you pay your employees any lower than $25/hr?

#71 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-22 07:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

You do realize that you are only talking about approximate 20% of the workers as 80 percent work in franchise stores. The only way to share in the corporate profits is to buy and hold stock ing the company; that's how it works.

#66 | Posted by MSgt

You do realize this thread is about McDonald's.

Did I mention that McDonald's workers in Denmark are now getting a more fair share of the company profits?

They now make $21 an hour if they are older than 18 and they also NOW get overtime pay… and guaranteed hours… and at least two days off a week.

#72 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 07:22 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

In other countries McDonalds lowest employees are paid the equivalent of $20 per an hour and the customers prices aren't even a dollar more than what we pay in the states.

#73 | Posted by Tor at 2014-05-22 07:38 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

In other countries McDonalds lowest employees are paid the equivalent of $20 per an hour

Good. Let's send them our french fry engineers.

#74 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-22 07:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

There was a time when McDonalds didn't have anywhere near as many part time workers.

#75 | Posted by Tor at 2014-05-22 07:51 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

In other countries McDonalds lowest employees are paid the equivalent of $20 per an hour and the customers prices aren't even a dollar more than what we pay in the states.

A combo meal at McDonald's in Denmark is 65 kroner which at today's exchange rate = $12.

www.numbeo.com

I don't eat at McDonalds, but I presume a combo meal is a burger, fries, and a drink. Does that really cost $11 in America? I can get a Whataburger combo meal (Whataburgers are actually good burgers, unlike anything from McDonalds) for $5.50

#76 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-22 07:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

^ 65 krone is the average. As you see in the link, it could be as much as 75 krone, which is $13.72 USD. That's a bit more than a dollar more than here, tor, but admittedly I haven't been in a McD's in decades. Maybe they really do cost that much here.

#77 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-22 08:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just another screw the poor effort on behalf of Liberals.

#78 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-05-22 08:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Great point. There have been several liberals here who claim to own a business. Do you pay your employees any lower than $25/hr?

#71 | Posted by goatman

If they can afford to pay living wages they should do so. It is better for their bottom line and strengthens the community they do business in.

A good example of this is Costco.

Costco pays a living wage and their profits are soaring.

"At Costco, we know that paying employees good wages makes good sense for business," Jelinik said in a statement last week. "Instead of minimizing wages, we know it's a lot more profitable in the long term to minimize employee turnover and maximize employee productivity, commitment and loyalty. We support efforts to increase the federal minimum wage."

#79 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 08:03 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

Maybe they really do cost that much here.

#77 | Posted by goatman

Depends on where you go.

An airport Mcdonalds will cost you that easily while the Mcdonalds in the seedy downtown district will be extra cheap. But, I bet the airport workers are still paid minimum wage unless the local law forces McDonalds to pay otherwise.

#80 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 08:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

"They now make $21 an hour if they are older than 18 and they also NOW get overtime pay… and guaranteed hours… and at least two days off a week."

Do you have more details on the underlying construct? For instance, are these wages a direct function of labor, or are they subsidized by the government?

According to the food industry consulting firm Technomic, labor constitutes about 30%-35% of total operating costs. So let's use 30%. Current ops costs for McDonalds are $7.1B. 30% of that is $2.13B. Lets assume half of those are min wage grunts. That's $1.7B. Triple that, and you come up with an increase of $3.4B per year.

This offset would, of course, come out of profits. It would be a net profit reduction of about 61%. ($5.6B-$3.4B). So McDonalds would not be a very attractive investment.

If you're concerned about poverty, here's the answer. Abandon the minimum wage altogether. For those adults with low economic value who are trying to support families, just increase taxes and cut them a check for the difference between their market value wages and what you feel they should be earning. That way, the rest of us aren't obligated to pay 17 year old high school kids $20 an hour, putting them in a position where they may be driving a nicer car than me.

#81 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-22 08:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

"A combo meal at McDonald's in Denmark is 65 kroner which at today's exchange rate = $12."

how low is the minimum wage in Wyoming again?

#82 | Posted by Tor at 2014-05-22 08:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

So McDonalds would not be a very attractive investment.

don't try and feed me that crap.

It is a GREAT investment so long as we taxpayers keep subsidizing the shareholders profits.

Again, though not in the food industry, I direct you to the Costco business model. There are fast food examples too, such as Moo Cluck Moo and IN and Out Burgers.

It can be done and with a healthy profit for the shareholders.

#83 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 08:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

how low is the minimum wage in Wyoming again?

The federal minimum wage is 7.5 dollars. I don't know what it is higher in Wyoming, but I'll bet google could help you.

Why do you ask?

But back to my question: Is a combo meal at McD's in America really between $10 and $12.75? (one dollar less than they are in Denmark, according to your claim).

I'm shocked.

#84 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-22 08:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

"don't try and feed me that crap."

Really?

So if I am a mutual fund manager, and I find out that the value of my investment-my client's investments, are going to decrease by 60%, that's crap?

"It is a GREAT investment so long as we taxpayers keep subsidizing the shareholders profits."

Under the current construct, I'm obligated to subsidize low value Americans regardless. If they can work for $7.25 an hour, that's $7.25 that the taxpayers DON'T have to pay.

"But back to my question: Is a combo meal at McD's in America really between $10 and $12.75? (one dollar less than they are in Denmark, according to your claim)."

No. Whoever made that claim is full of excrement. I'm fairly certain I could still get a combo for under $4.

#85 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-22 08:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

No. Whoever made that claim is full of excrement. I'm fairly certain I could still get a combo for under $4.

#85 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Like I said you can also pay $12 dollars, too. Depends. American is a pretty big place. I cant imagine me paying $12 for that crap either. But, your mileage may vary.

#86 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 09:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

#72 | POSTED BY DONNERBOY AT 2014-05-22 07:22 PM | FLAG: My comments were about McDonalds [try Googling and learning something]. Approximate 80% of all Micky Ds are Franchises where someone [like maybe you] scraped together the 750K to buy one and you are the employer of those people at your business. Now after all expenses [including your paid employees] you get to keep the remainder [net] for you and your family to live on. Actually the profit margins are not that big and if you decide to pay your people more, yet your paying customers coming in the door stays the same, then you have less for you and your family to live on as those billions of McDonalds' Corp profits are not available to you, the franchisee

I'm very aware of this as my favorite uncle [now deceased] went into business with a partner years ago and they bought two franchises.

ALSO REMEMBER, it is not just the dollar amount as you are required as an employer to pay the Social Security match to the govt out of your income as well as others. The average employee is not aware that that are actually paid more in their name. And, do not forget that the more senior people will demand raises as all of a sudden newbies are making the wage they took a few years to achieve.

#87 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-05-22 09:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

No. Whoever made that claim is full of excrement. I'm fairly certain I could still get a combo for under $4.

That's what I thought. And thanks. You just saved me from having to go into a McD's to check myself. LOL

#88 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-22 09:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

So since the proggies grasped the "Denmark model" and made claims without citations, I think it's safe to say (since I did provide links to prove my claim) that although the fry cooks there make 3x what they do here, the combo meal at its high end costs ~3x as much (in their large cities, as NY or LA here) and even more than 3x as much in the low cost cities (like Dallas or Shreveport) since a combo meal ranges from 60 krone to 75 krone in Denmark.

So thanks for the Denmark example, proggies!

#89 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-22 09:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

What about all the people that have worked hard and smart, played by the rules to earn $15 an hour, will they a raise as well?

I get about $18 an hour as highly educated and skilled PhD student in engineering (working 40 hrs a week plus classes). During undergraduate school, which I took full-time, I also worked full-time.

Have some goals and ambition, be smart with your money and who you sleep with, or live poorly; your choice

#90 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-22 10:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

It can be done and with a healthy profit for the shareholders.

#83 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-22 08:25 PM | Reply | Flag

It is not up to you to decide what a company pays its employees.

#91 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-22 10:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Just to add donnerboy, it is up to you what companies you shop and eat at, for example I don't shop at Wal-MArt. I thinks it is an crappy company. I prefer Aldi's, traders joe's which both pay well, and krogers which has a union or meijers which is privately owned.

#92 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-22 10:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Regardless, these McDonald's workers are entitled to a bit more of a share of the $5 billion in yearly profits they are helping to generate."

Or perhaps raise taxes on McD's and the like to cover the cost of the $7B/year that fast food industry workers receive in government?

#93 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2014-05-22 11:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm still waiting for a proggie to tell me whose fault it is that someone chooses a lifelong career assembling hamburgers? I understand high school kids doing it, and they don't deserve a "living wage" since they live with mom and pop.

What I don't understand is someone who chooses to marry and have kids while making minimum wage, then whine and moan about not being able to afford it. Whose fault is that?

Clue, burger flippers: Study. Get an education. Learn a trade. THEN and only then have babies.

Just a common sense suggestion to those who obviously have none.

#94 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-23 12:00 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

#93 - I agree, but the federal government intervening, IMO, is not the best solution; although the easiest. If people who like eating that crap food, started to complain to the company threatening a personal boycott that might help. Share holders could also chip in as well. But both groups have an incentive to keep wages low.

Although I will get grilled for this, having a minimum wage and 40 hour a week overtime rules also doesn't help (40 work weeks are necessary for some occupations such as truckers, nurses, and police officers). Having a minimum is equivalent to collusion amongst businesses (which is illegal), but it is a federal government forced collusion.

If there were no minimum wage or overtime in retail and fast food, some companies could pay more for better workers (a few do now), some would pay less and get poor workers, and the free market would itself out.

As a side note, in places with high costs of living such as NYC, minimum wage is a cruel joke (www.bloomberg.com). The city itself has the power and the right to raise the minimum wage; just please people stop giving more power to the federal government it is bad for us all in the end

#95 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-23 12:01 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1


Whose fault is that?
#94 | Posted by goatman

No one on the Left will ever answer you Goatman. They will never admit that self respect and self reliance degrades over the decades and generations of welfare and government dependency.

No one on the Left will ever admit to the evidence that this idiotic pandering for votes creates an enormous liability and there is never enough money or resources to "fix" it. Example: Ninth Ward, New Orleans after Katrina. The corrupt 70 year, Democrat-led Louisiana state government created a very large group of government dependent people that when this unique storm hit there was nothing anyone could do. No one could get the people out and no one could get food and water in. Then the idiots blame the Republicans!!!! What? I did get a great deal of satisfaction watching the truth come out though.

#96 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-05-23 08:53 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Your training is complete LA. You're a black belt in conservative evasion speak, able to speak at length about a hypothetical unlikely future, in order to convey your conspiracy theories. Let no shred of reality deter you on your mission.

#97 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-05-23 10:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

thanks for the Denmark example, proggies!

#89 | POSTED BY GOATMAN

You are welcome knuckledragger.

And now you know it can be done. And the economy wont suddenly spiral out of control and mcdonalds can still turn a profit.

The point was not that prices don't rise (I never argued they wouldn't go up) but that it can and has already been done.

#98 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-23 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

"I'm still waiting for a proggie to tell me whose fault it is that someone chooses a lifelong career assembling hamburgers?"

Keep waiting knuckledragger. Because that is just a strawman and really has nothing to do with why McDonalds does not pay a living wage and why we are still so willing to subsidize their huge profits.

#99 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-23 11:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

As soon as you guys define living wage then we can have a reasonable conversation. Until then, I support a minimum wage of nothing less than $75/hour.

#100 | Posted by justanoversight at 2014-05-23 12:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

"They will never admit that self respect and self reliance degrades over the decades and generations of welfare and government dependency."

If you're a progressive, government dependency is the goal. Because when the people are dependent on government, they are owned by government.

"...has nothing to do with why McDonalds does not pay a living wage and why we are still so willing to subsidize their huge profits."

I think it is more accurate to say that McDonald's is subsidizing the American people by paying workers a wage that would otherwise be covered by taxpayer dollars in the form of transfer payments.

"Until then, I support a minimum wage of nothing less than $75/hour."

Do I hear $80??? Eighty Dollars?

#101 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-23 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Do I hear $strawman??? Straw Man?

#102 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-23 12:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think $100 an hour is reasonable "Living Wage"

#103 | Posted by cmbell73 at 2014-05-23 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

As soon as you guys define living wage then we can have a reasonable conversation.

#100 | Posted by justanoversight

There are a lot of variables to what constitutes a living wage.. And you either know it or you're a moron.

How about if we start with a wage that's too high to qualify for other assistance.. So that taxpayers are no longer subsidizing cheap labor for these industries. If businesses can't support the full cost of doing business, these businesses are not viable.

#104 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-23 12:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So that taxpayers are no longer subsidizing cheap labor for these industries. If businesses can't support the full cost of doing business..."

They can cover the full cost of doing business. What they can't do is cover the cost of your political goals. And why should they have to.

But I sort of agree with the definition of a living wage being based on needing to qualify for assistance. The huge, ginormous problem with the contemporary living wage or minimum wage argument is that it doesn't recognize that the vast majority of min wage earners are not single income earners who are supporting a family on that wage. they are high school of college kids. Second income earners, etc. And there really isn't a good reason to pass laws stating that teenagers need a living wage when they are living at home with mom and dad.

#105 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-23 12:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you're a progressive, government dependency is the goal.

If you are a regressive then survival of the fittest is your goal.

YOYO (You'er Own Your Own) is your idea of an enlightened society.

Any wonder why we call you "knuckledraggers"?

It's a philosophy so simple even a caveman can do it.

#106 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-23 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

the vast majority of min wage earners are not single income earners who are supporting a family on that wage. they are high school of college kids.

#105 | Posted by madbomber

Increasingly, that's no longer true. But it could be accounted for easily enough by making sure my quasi definition of a living wage is applied as total household income.

#107 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-23 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Capitalism: gods way of determining who is smart and who is poor.

#108 | Posted by monkeylogic42 at 2014-05-23 02:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If you are a regressive then survival of the fittest is your goal."

Survival and support of me is my goal. When I am obligated to survive and support someone else who doesn't share that goal, I do less supporting and surviving for myself, my family, and those I willingly choose to survive and support.

"Increasingly, that's no longer true."

It's as true as it has ever been. About 1.5% of the workforce are adults earning minimum wage.

"But it could be accounted for easily enough by making sure my quasi definition of a living wage is applied as total household income."

And if were an employer, what I would do is not hire anyone who fit that definition, since there will always be workers available who are dependents or live in a household that has a second income.

So the single mom burger flipper would be unemployed instead of employed at minimum wage. Which one do you think costs the taxpayers more?

#109 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-23 03:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Survival and support of me is my goal.

That should be your first goal.

Independence. God bless the child that has it's own.

But, when you grow up and ripen a bit you will realize that Interdependence is and ought to be just as important.

Interdependence is and ought to be as much the ideal of man as self-sufficiency. Man is a social being. Without interrelation with society he cannot realize his oneness with the universe or suppress his egotism. His social interdependence enables him to test his faith and to prove himself on the touchstone of reality.
Mahatma Gandhi, Young India, March 21, 1929

#110 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-23 04:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

"But, when you grow up and ripen a bit you will realize that Interdependence is and ought to be just as important."

I think you just must be smarter than me, because I must not understand that concept. Interdependence. From here, it suggests some level of symbiosis. Which makes sense. But I don't think that's what you men to imply.

#111 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-23 04:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Which one do you think costs the taxpayers more?

#109 | Posted by madbomber

Since there are limits to the amount of time someone can collect unemployment.. Since the daycare for that single moms kids costs more than shes making and we'd no longer have that expense if she were caring for those kids herself.. The answer is.. the business owner or corporation using cheap subsidized labor is costing the taxpayers more.

If a commercial business can't support itself without such employees, it shouldn't be in business.

You don't want to pay more for your lousy cheese burger. In reality you already are. I'd like to see those prices listed on the menu, instead of hidden in the government assistance behind the scenes.

#112 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-23 04:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

I really doubt you will be fulfilling ghandis vision of interdependence by raising the minimum wage... Maybe you should test your self control the way he did by sleeping naked with his nieces. I always find reverance for ghandi and the like amusing. People are bastard coated bastards woth bastard filling, i dont care how non violent they are.

#113 | Posted by monkeylogic42 at 2014-05-23 05:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If a commercial business can't support itself without such employees, it shouldn't be in business."

And I shouldn't expect to be able to buy a burger unless I am willing to shell out $12.

Do you recognize how hopelessly retarded that sounds? Do you recognize you're putting you're own beliefs above common sense. You sort of like a economic creationist. Refusing to acknowledge any reality that conflicts with your chosen faith.

#114 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-23 06:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Clue, burger flippers: Study. Get an education. Learn a trade. THEN and only then have babies.
Just a common sense suggestion to those who obviously have none.

#94 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2014-05-23 12:00 AM | FLAG:

Even if everyone worked hard and went to college, someone would still need to make our pizza, stock our shelves, and drive our cabs.

#115 | Posted by soheifox at 2014-05-23 07:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

And I shouldn't expect to be able to buy a burger unless I am willing to shell out $12.

#114 | Posted by madbomber

Then don't buy it.

It sounds far more retarded for me to continue to subsidize your burger. Why should those of us that are willing to pay $12 or more for a restaurant meal have to keep the price of your burger low?

Who's the welfare queen now?

#116 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-23 07:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Good for them! I hope they organize form a union and can bargain with these corporate oligarchs and get a wage that doesn't keep them in poverty!

#117 | Posted by Badcat at 2014-05-23 07:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Do you recognize you're putting you're own beliefs above common sense. You sort of like a economic creationist. Refusing to acknowledge any reality that conflicts with your chosen faith.

#114 | Posted by madbomber

McDonalds is putting it's profits over the common decency. Taking advantage of the poor.

Treating it's employees like wage-slaves... "Humans Doing" rather than Human Beings.

And you apparently refuse to recognize, because of your own faith (or lack of faith in humanity), that there are already respectable businesses out there that are seeing that treating their employees with respect and allowing them dignity and supporting them with a living wage and health care and benefits like sick leave and time off has value.

It maximizes employee productivity, commitment and loyalty and is ALSO good the community and for the bottom line of the shareholders.

#118 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-23 07:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

and ALSO for the community...

#119 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-23 07:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Youre actually fighting FOR the corporations if you are fighting to raise minimum wage. The result: only the the companies that can afford it already will survive and youve effectively halved the employees a mom and pop can afford. Now they have to struggle to make a business work with a ridiculous 15 an hour mandate without the labor to fulfill. They close and everyone now works for wal mart at 15 an hour flat. Which is ok. You can live like you make almost 60k a year when youre family all get discounts at the company store...

#120 | Posted by monkeylogic42 at 2014-05-24 01:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

If you're concerned about poverty, here's the answer. Abandon the minimum wage altogether. For those adults with low economic value who are trying to support families, just increase taxes and cut them a check for the difference between their market value wages and what you feel they should be earning. That way, the rest of us aren't obligated to pay 17 year old high school kids $20 an hour, putting them in a position where they may be driving a nicer car than me.
#81 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

That is the closest you have ever come to accepting social credit as a good idea! If I can convince you then I can convince anyone. Tell you what that was a great way to start a weekend thanks.

For those who don't know social credit is, among other things, the concept that a national dividend be given out to everyone. The idea being that all mechanization is built on previous scientific learning which we are all inheritors to. This would allow exactly what you are proposing here Madbomber. We could eliminate the min wage because everyone was receiving a dividend check, or an inheritance check, every month anyway. No need to guarantee a living wage for burger flippers. The dividend would likely be too small to live off on it's own but it would not take much to supplement it. Arguments over what is a living wage become moot, almost any wage is a living wage if you are getting a monthly dividend. It also gives you the security to go back to school, learn a trade and better yourself.

No surprise it is an economic system designed by an engineer not an economist or politician it makes way to much sense.

#121 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-05-24 10:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Is it only Americans that get this dividend, or does it go to all earthlings?

#122 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-24 10:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

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