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Sunday, May 18, 2014

Two survivors of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki spoke at the Harry S. Truman Little White House in Key West, Florida, this weekend. Setsuko Thurlow, 13 when Hiroshima was bombed, was rescued from a collapsed building before classmates were burned alive inside it. She recalled seeing a blue-white flash and hearing voices of classmates begging for help. She was pulled free from the rubble but said about 30 other girls were not so lucky. She ultimately fled the city on foot, but said the sights of what she passed will never leave her. "We saw streams of people, streams of ghostly people -- burned, blackened," she said. "When darkness came, we sat on the hillside and we watched the city burn."

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Diablo

 

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I honestly do not know what to think of Truman.

But it was under him Curtis Lemay went ahead with pouring white phosphorus on civilian population centers and I have to believe Truman okayed it. Animals.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Headline error: meant to say atomic bomb survivors.

#1 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-18 01:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

Truman saved Japanese lives.

#2 | Posted by Tor at 2014-05-18 12:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

He could have saved more if he did not dump white phosphorus on civilians and tried for a negotiated surrender rather than the 'unconditional surrender FDR doctrine.

#3 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-18 01:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes, let us blame Truman for saving tens of thousands of American lives while taking on a brutal enemy which launched a sneak attack on us and not the nation that has not acknowledged or apologized for its atrocities even now.

War is hell. Don't start one unless you want to pay the price. And don't cry victim after invading and brutalizing every nation you could get your hands on.

#4 | Posted by censored at 2014-05-18 03:53 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Diablo is being disingenuous here. The only reason he is harping on Truman is because Truman's a democrat.

Never mind the history of Japans reluctance of not wanting unconditional surrender.

www.johnwcooper.com

rwd

#5 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-05-18 04:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Truman save JAPANESE lives (and allied lives), and that is according to a lot of Japanese.

The militarist had no intention of any sort of surrender that might involve anything like an occupation. Furthermore, their control was solid, UNTIL the atomic bombs.

Frankly, for actual effect at flattening an industrial area, the conventional bombings were better, cheaper (and more costly in life for both sides). But the 'shock' value of those early A-Bombs was unique and effective.

#6 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-05-18 07:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Diablo is being disingenuous here. The only reason he is harping on Truman is because Truman's a democrat."

Oh baloney. I am dead serious and could care less what party Truman belonged to.
If you want to defend mass firebombing of civilians go right ahead. It is an atrocity.

#7 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-18 07:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you want to defend mass firebombing of civilians go right ahead. It is an atrocity.

#7 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-18 07:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm not defending anything. I just don't judge the past with todays standards.

rwd

#8 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2014-05-18 08:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

We should not care as like Hillary's words on Benghazi: 'What difference does it make'!

#9 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-05-18 09:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Did they tell the stories about how they were to fight to the death men women and children if invaded?

Did they tell the stories about how they were to all kill themselves if the americans invaded and they could not stop them?

I think not its revision history over and over again.

#10 | Posted by tmaster at 2014-05-18 10:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Those who sole discord shall reap the whirlwind". All of the above, (with exceptions), are ether ignorant of history, or have such a skewed view of history that it borders on delusion.
The Japanese were the bad guys. They were extreme racist. Their aggression in Asia extended over most of the Pacific for decades. Korea, Manchuria, China, Indonesia, Philippines, Vietnam, Singapore, Burma, the list is mind numbing. Every where they occupied was awash with the blood of innocents. The ---- murdered tens of millions. Very few of these criminals were held to account, most did us a favor by killing themselves, escaping the shame of a public trial. Would the Japanese have surrendered? Nothing in the real world said so, the government was in the process of issuing grenades to school girls in July 1945, to be used ageist American tanks. Peace feelers sent out to the Soviets? Probity Soviet disinformation, and they did not bring up that tidbit til after the war. The Empire did not speak to the country that held the guns, and the means to destroy them utterly. The nation of Japan got off easy, there was a proposal to move the population of Japan to China as slaves and completely depopulate those islands.

#11 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-05-18 10:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The Japanese were the bad guys. They were extreme racist"

If racist is the definition of evil to you, why was our military segregated at the time? Why do our movies at that time have buck-toothed Japanese (Nips as they were called) who seem to wax orgasmic at inflicting violence?

#12 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-18 11:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Did they tell the stories about how they were to fight to the death men women and children if invaded?"

You might read Churchill's wartime speeches about never surrendering.
It might, by your logic, make dumping white phosphorus on London, Coventry and Liverpool justified. The Germans did not use such weapons there as far as I recall right now.

#13 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-19 12:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

Odd - I don't recall being issued grenades in WW2 USA....guess Truman thought we were winning?

#14 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-05-19 12:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

If anyone doubts the wisdom of using the atomic and neutron bombs on Japan, look up Operation Olympic and Operation Coronet. Those detailed the Allied plans to invade Japan in November or December of 1945. Estimates solely on American casualties from these two phases of the invasion of Japan (collectively known as Operation Downfall) exceeded the number of all military deaths in the US Civil War.

Over 600,000 Union and Confederate soldiers died in combat from 1861-1865. These battles in Japan would have killed that many Americans over a few months.

#15 | Posted by DCTexan at 2014-05-19 01:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Estimates solely on American casualties from these two phases of the invasion of Japan (collectively known as Operation Downfall) exceeded the number of all military deaths in the US Civil War."

Well then, they should have wasted the lives of over half a million Americans back then because my country having used nuclear weapons bothers my sensibilitieis now.

Just kidding. I wanted to see what it would be like to be part of the crowd that whines about this. It sucked.

#16 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-19 09:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

diablo, your arguments are detached from the reality of the time. Racism is relative, Japanese soldiers ate natives on Borneo, because they needed food and they considered the folks in Borneo to be sub-human,(non-Japanese). They used Mancunians in bio and chem warfare experiments, they raped and murdered at least 100.000 women in one city in China, Nanking. They used some of the natives in New Guinea as target practice. They used 200,000 Burmese as slave labor, killing them all as they withdrew. Humanity did not pierce these savage's minds as a concept. They served the "Son of Heaven", any action in his service was honorable. BTW, one of the great things about being my age was that I knew a lot of veterans from that war in the Pacific. IN my home town of Wichita Falls, 380 young men were captured in Java,(2nd Battalion, 131st Field Artillery), in tact. When they were liberated in Japan four years later, there were 73 remaining. The Japanese are a lot like the Turks, they never committed any war crimes in WWII, the Turks did not commit genocide ageist the Armenians. You need to learn the concept of evil, evil does exist.

#17 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-05-19 09:15 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Correct on all accounts about future Allied casualties if the war had continued. But let us also remember the countless Japanese lives saved as more died in the Tokyo bombings then the atomic bomb sites. Truman and his cabinet made a calculated decision that will be eternally debated. Here's one poster that agrees with it.

#18 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2014-05-19 09:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

It might, by your logic, make dumping white phosphorus on London, Coventry and Liverpool justified. The Germans did not use such weapons there as far as I recall right now.

#13 | POSTED BY DIABLO AT 2014-05-19 12:12 AM | FLAG:

You're guess of 0 is only off by a 1,000,000.

Kampfgruppe 100 alone dropped 10,000 incendiary bombs in 1 mission with he111's.

en.wikipedia.org

#19 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-19 09:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

it is highly likely that someday, someone will save american lives by detonating a nuclear weapon in our own country.

dropping the atomic bomb 2x was the beginning of the end for america-- not really the first nail in the coffin-- that waslavery, racism, native removal and extermination-- but it might of been the first load of dirt tossed on the coffin...

#20 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-05-19 10:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

NerfHerder, Why not go where they have a history you approve of.
1. Slavery was universal when this country was founded, It was not the first to emancipate it's slaves, but it was the one that paid the highest cost to do so.
2. Racism- fairly relative term, racist like the English who believe they are superior to all other humans, or like the imperial Japanese who believed only they had a right to live, or the Germans under National Socialism who believed that the state alone determined who should live and die?
3.Native Removal and extermination is a revisionist myth. Fact is most European settlers never saw a native, around 85% were killed off by small pox long before the white devil ever moved in to their area. Especially those who lived in fixed villages. BTW, the Spanish were here for a century before he first English speaker landed.

I would guess you are a collage sophomore that just finished Zinn's historical perspective last year in American History 101. If not, that was the last history you ever read.

#21 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-05-19 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

If someone is going to dominate the world, I prefer it be America.

#22 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-05-19 12:59 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"I would guess you are a collage sophomore..."

it's spelled c-o-l-l-e-g-e, freshman...

#23 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-05-19 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Native Removal and extermination is a revisionist myth.

BS

Many died of diseases and many succumbed to alcoholism but MANY were removed.

See ...The Indian Removal Act and the Trail of Tears.

#24 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-19 05:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

I see the psychics prattling on about the certainties of their alternate realities are out in full force tonight..

No one knows if dropping the bombs and killing countless civilians saved even a single life. You can't prove it. It is only speculation not based on fact Nor can you guarantee that all those killed were brutal killers.

Repeating that dribble over and over will not make it more true. The reason that story is told over and over is the struggle to find some sort of redemption in the horrific slaughter we visited upon others. It is right up there with all those we took out to save Iraiqs from being taken out by Saddam.

What is known about dropping the two bombs is that it they were the worst attacks inflicted on human beings with using a single weapon in human history. People were vaporized others lingered in agony for days before dying.

Oh and by the way DocnJo... as you ramble on with your sanctimony about the evils of the Yellow race and all their awful misdeeds during the first half of the last century... consider that while Hitler was turning Jews into lampshades (with the blessings of plenty of American citizens. The same noble U.S. citizens used to stringing negroes from trees for entertainment.

www-tc.pbs.org

wiki.brown.edu

It wasn't until the images of Hitler's death camps where shown to the world that Americans took a serious look at their shameful history.

Your statistics are wrong about the native American slaughter. It was not mostly disease. The evidence is apparent when you look at countries south of the Rio Grande where the descendants of the pre Columbian indigenous population living there the racial majority. You really think those diseases that wiped out 85% of Native North Americans couldn't make it past border security? You're an idiot who is passing on feel good lies about US history.

It would strike me that if you could justify dropping a nuke on a nation based on the way it treated some people the... US is long over due for an atomic bitch slap.

#25 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-05-20 12:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

Feel good lies? let's see. The population of natives in what is now the US in 1492 was around 25 to 30 million. In 1900 it was less than 6 million. Hundreds of tribes became extinct due to the onslaught of European pathogens. I know a few native people, mostly Choctaw and Comanche, we are related. The ridiculous belief is that the red race were helpless victims. That was far from the truth. The fact is if it were not for small pox the natives would have kicked the white devil off this continent.
Mexico is not populated by Indians, the word down there is Mestizo,(mixed). The average Mexican is only about 25% to 40% native. The population of pure natives is actually as low as it is here in this country. The treatment of native people there was actually much harsher.
I will note that the Indian Removal Act and the Trail of Tears both occurred under a Democrat icon, Andrew Jackson.
I believe that if you knew any native people you would be a little surprised. Most of the folks I know are ranchers, love to hunt and fish and most have served in the military. They also have a low opinion of the government, do they sound red neck to you?

#26 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-05-20 02:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

I see you ate a handful of stupid before making your remark. This is what I said. "The evidence is apparent when you look at countries south of the Rio Grande where the descendants of the pre Columbian indigenous population living there the racial majority." . Your retort what "they are not indians" they are Mestizos or or mixed heritage. Well doh!!! then you went into your blood quantum pedigree ratios of 25% to 40%(?!)... and to cap it off you used Mexico as your only example of surviving aboriginal races of the Americas. Ya see that is the point I am making.

The natives to the south of the had earlier contact and exposure to the euro-pathogens. The reason for their survival rates being so high? They assimilated... hence the Mestizo and if you look to the north of the US you will also find a larger per capita ratio of indigenous descendants than you will in the US due in large part because of the presences of the Metis people who are also represent those of mixed heritage. What were they called in the US? Half breeds? What were the assimilated negroes called. Quadroons, octoroons... what ever all of them where considered a sub species and believe me those of mixed racial heritage living in what became the US

You still want to blame it all on disease? When Spain, France, and Russia started their plunder of the Americas and claiming territories for their sponsoring nations they granted the aboriginals citizenship as part of the package. The natives in the US weren't considered citizens of the by England or US until 1924. Even though many of them had served bravely alongside British against France then later US Americans fighting in the various wars that the US engaged in from the Revolutionary to WW1. BTW the "negro" was given citizenship decades earlier.

The businesses sponsoring the pioneers moving west paid scouts bounties to kill "hostiles". The US government sanctioned the behavior by The Battle of Sand Creek was not an isolated incident.

No doubt in my mind the founder of the modern democratic party Andy Jackson was a sociopathic serial murder. However the Lyndon Johnson signed into law the Civil Rights Act. into law changing the course for the party ... while the republiclowns anxious to garner a larger voting block pandered to those whom Johnson left behind in the Bible belt. Reagan sealed the deal... and today you have the ---------- party with congressional seats speaking for god and shutting down the gubment.

You need to study up on the Native history more before you go off on your diatribes. To say that the Natives were killed off by disease is saying they were hapless victims.

I will say it again. To justify dropping a nuke on a nation based on the way it treated some people the US is long over due for a bitch slap.

P.S. Actually there are plenty of red neck types who like to hunt fish and don't trust the government. Not sure why you would ask that.

And now for a message from the First Nation: www.youtube.com

#27 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-05-20 11:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

You do realize that you receive the ----- slap with the rest of us, don't you? And again, If there is a country you know that has a better history, go there, since you believe this one is so evil.

#28 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-05-21 09:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

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