Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, May 13, 2014

Hannah Ettinger at Wine and Marble reported that her sister Clare, who was wearing dress code-appropriate clothing to the Richmond Homeschool Prom, was kicked out because some middle-aged dads couldn't stop ogling her from a balcony. Upon her arrival "Mrs. D.," an organizer of the prom stopped her and told her that her dress was "too short." Clare demonstrated that it fit within the "fingertip length" rule, but that did not please the organizer. "Well make sure it stays pulled down, it's too short," Clare was told. After she entered, she joined her friends, who were appalled by the treatment Clare had received. Surrounded by girls wearing much shorter dresses than hers, she began to attempt to enjoy herself but encountered another problem: the dads on the balcony. Apparently the dads were unable to control their lust for underage girls long enough to act appropriately at a high school dance.

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tonyroma

 

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Clare detailed her issues with her experience in the blog post:

What happened last night was so wrong for so many different reasons:

*I was told that the way I dressed and moved my body was causing men to think inappropriately about me, implying that it is my responsibility to control other people's thoughts and drives.

*I was talked to disrespectfully, ganged up on and treated as less then a person by people in authority, and when I requested to have one of my peers present to validate later what was said in this "meeting" I was denied that right and my friends were threatened for sticking up for me.
We were verbally promised a full refund for our group, we received only a refund for my ticket, they need to refund 5 more tickets for our group.

*I felt violated by the sheer number of male parents that were assigned to do nothing for five hours other then watch girls in short dresses and heels dance to upbeat music. I think that it is sick and wrong that they assigned them to sit on a balcony above us and look down on us and single us out for our clothes or dancing.

*I never signed any documentation agreeing to adhere to any sort of dress code, and the dress code that was verbally communicated to me was followed to the letter, and yet I was still kicked out.

*I was informed by more then one friend who stayed at the prom throughout the course of the evening that there was some truly dirty dancing, and that there were several couples making out and grinding on the dance floor, and yet out of a group of 500 people, only one person, (me) got thrown out for inappropriate dancing.


If we needed any further evidence that our current generation of kids don't see color and race, here it likely is. You can find pictures of her and her dress at the link above. But here is the most likely reason that led her to being kicked out of the prom:
aattp.org The young lady goes on to recount the complete sequence of events and her responses during and reactions afterwards. Either rationale for her having been expelled along with her friends is abhorrent on it's face and in the end it doesn't matter which wrong reason caused these events. No one deserves to be treated like that for being and being with whom they want to unless someone is breaking acceptable social decorum.

This doesn't appear anywhere close to being the case.

#1 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-05-13 08:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Talked to as equals? As responsible adults who get to have opinions and likes and dislikes too? How is it that what I look like and how I dress constitutes the level of respect you give me?

1.You are not an equal to an adult. You are a child.

2. We are judged on how we look. Yes, how you dress does matter. If you dress like a cop, people are going to think you are a cop. Dress like a ----, well...

And Tony, NO ONE was talking race as far as I could see.

#2 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-13 08:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

And Tony, NO ONE was talking race as far as I could see.

That's the point Boaz. The kids don't see it as a possibility and I think that's a great thing. Read the comments under the story. Click on the most popular tab. The adults see it for what it was. Why would any wife wrongly punish a "child" for their husbands being unable to control their libidos? And why is that Claire's fault.

I see you didn't read the entire story. The young woman was obsessed with making sure her dress fit the guidelines before leaving home. She wasn't trying to titillate anyone. She's 5'9 with long limbs. Her dress fit the standards given.

I'm disappointed that you'd immediately take the view that this young woman was wrong just because whatever. She didn't do one thing wrong except (perhaps) choose a date the women (and likely men) didn't like seeing her with. Of course she felt ogling, but the men could have been watching her date just as much as her. I wasn't there, so I don't know. I just know that the alternative is just as likely as the cause the young woman felt was to blame.

#3 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-05-13 08:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dress like a ----, well…

You say so much about yourself in so few words.

#4 | Posted by YAV at 2014-05-13 08:35 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 6

Dress like a ----, well…

It's prom.
They're all dressed like -----.
That's the whole point of prom.
See also: Halloween.

#5 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-13 09:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

What??? Uh, why were any dads at the prom? Citizen chaperones, maybe. But weird.

And anyone who thinks that outfit is inordinately revealing needs to get out more. At my HS, kids wear more revealing stuff than that on a day-to-day basis. I think her attire is just fine. (Yes, someone will insert an idiotic joke in response to this comment, but seriously: you think this outfit is whorish? Really?!)

#6 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-05-13 09:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

#6

Did you read the entire narrative? The girl wasn't kicked out because of her dress as much as it was in combination with her date. The girl's dress conformed in every way and she hadn't even danced in any type of provocative manner (not that this means anything as toward judging her at all) therefore the next likely suspect is her date in concert with the way the men on the balcony were behaving.

The fact that the women blamed the girl instead of the men leads me to believe the men, while probably titillated by her long legs and figure, were "socially" incensed with both her and her choice of date. To me, her 'looks' became a scapegoat for ridding themselves of the lady and her friends who obviously held vastly different feelings about these proceedings than did their antagonists.

#7 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-05-13 09:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Link to photo: aattp.org

#8 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-05-13 09:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Clare has a message for girls in her position–and it's one everyone should hear:

This is a message to the women who understand that sometimes, it doesn't matter how much you pin a dress, you're still going to have cleavage show when you bend over. This is a message to girls built like me, who can't find jeans that fit because your ass is just too damn big! The girls with long legs, who are forced to prove that their dresses fit the dress code, just because they have more leg showing then most girls.

This is what I want to say. You are beautiful, no matter how you are built, no matter how you chose to dress or dance or what words you chose to say in the heat of the moment. And even more important then knowing that the fact that your looks, and your body and how you dress doesn't get to define whether or not you're beautiful, you have to know, that people are responsible for their own thoughts, desires and actions, and it doesn't [...] matter if you're just swaying along with music, or if you're grinding up on your date, or not even dancing. You are a person, with a soul, and with potential and with purpose, and the way that other people treat you, should never be based on how you dance, or dress or talk. You are a person, I am a person, is it really too much to ask that we be treated like people? Talked to as equals? As responsible adults who get to have opinions and likes and dislikes too? How is it that what I look like and how I dress constitutes the level of respect you give me?...


It couldn't be stated any better.

#9 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-05-13 10:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

And Tony, NO ONE was talking race as far as I could see. - boaz

That's the point Boaz.

What a bunch of crap Tony.

You are making this a racial issue without any proof only supposition.

You don't know if there were other mixed couples there do you?

You don't know if some of those fathers were African American?

You only have a picture of a mixed couple going to a prom, and some girls writing because she got in trouble at the prom, thats enough to claim racism...??? sure Tony sure ....

Who is the racist, perhaps its the one that sees racism at any frustration.

#10 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-14 12:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

This is really pathetic. I have to agree with Tony that we're not getting the whole story. This girl was kicked out for some other reason than her attire. It was just fine.

#11 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-05-14 02:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

You are making this a racial issue without any proof only supposition.

Clare mentioned every other possibility though and never thought that it might be about her choice of date. I celebrate that fact as evidence that this generation of kids are taking bigots at their word instead of having the life experiences of prior generations where racial biases were often covered by other convenient scapegoats.

Maybe race has nothing to do with it, but these are "homeschoolers" and their parents. One of the reasons for homeschooling is to control the environment around one's children, ie. limit their exposure to children the parents deem deleterious to their children's matriculation both educationally and socially.

With the overwhelming anecdotal evidence that Clare and her friends were in complete compliance with the regulations and the decorum of the prom, what other possible reasons are there for holding Clare to a standard the other kids weren't being judged by?

#12 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-05-14 06:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

#2 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-13 08:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Jesus, Boaz. Have you ever sniffed a boot you didn't want to lick?

The girl wasn't dressed provocatively. Despite your knee jerk desire to defend them no matter what, the authority figures in the story are clearly either out of their minds or lying about why they threw her out.

And your idea that kids need to defer to any adult under any circumstances is actually pretty dangerous for the kids.

#13 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-14 09:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

7: Did you read my post? I was pointing out that those worried about her dress (on this thread) are fools. I have no idea what motivated the removal, but people are talking about the dress. I was addressing (no pun intended) that. You can talk about the racism all you want; it's not where I was going.

#14 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-05-14 11:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

Tony,

I think a more plausible likelihood is that she was singled out because she is home-schooled.

I suspect public school officials probably have a negative view toward home schooling.

Based on the pictures I don't see how they could have found her dress objectionable.

What's truly sad is that prom is a really big deal to girls - to have her night ruined over something stupid...

#15 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-14 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think a more plausible likelihood is that she was singled out because she is home-schooled.

"Richmond Homeschool Prom"

That would be hard to do at a "Homeschool Prom" no?

#16 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-14 03:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

One of the reasons for homeschooling is to control the environment around one's children,

In my experiences with homeschool parents, it is sometimes to over-control the environment around the children and a family friend has used race as their reason to home school their child. It is sad that it still exists in today's world. They see nothing wrong with their point of view.

#17 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-14 03:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

The dress is fine but what about underneath. Those adults may have had a Basic Instinct experience.

#18 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2014-05-14 03:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

#18 Is that said in the article?

What creeps me out is a bunch of "Christian" dads ogling a teenager to the point where they cannot control themselves. That was the given explanation. Why weren't the dads told to leave?

The explanation why she was asked to leave is baloney and is hiding some other reason that no one wants to admit.

#19 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-14 03:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Based on the pictures I don't see how they could have found her dress objectionable.

That's my contention as well. It doesn't make any sense based on the photos and her demeanor at the prom. That is why us older folks think that her boyfriend may have had more than a little bit to do with how she was treated.

In my experiences with homeschool parents, it is sometimes to over-control the environment around the children and a family friend has used race as their reason to home school their child.

Though I've not had any personal experiences in this area, that is what I've heard as well from numerous other people who have intimate knowledge of this as being true.

The explanation why she was asked to leave is baloney and is hiding some other reason that no one wants to admit.

Pretty much what I surmised.

#20 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-05-14 04:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I suspect public school officials probably have a negative view toward home schooling. "

Is that broad brush heavy? : ) I'm not extrapolating here, just pointing out: At my school, we have a history of local homeschoolers joining our sports teams (never a peep of a problem) and attending events (ditto).

#21 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-05-14 09:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

"See also: Halloween."

Ahh. The one night of the year girls can dress ------ and not feel ashamed about it. Who doesn't love Halloween.

And it wasn't the dads that got this girl kicked out. It was their wives. I'd bet this weekend's beer ration that the woman who kicked her out was married to one of the dads who was checking her out. Women despise anything that they perceive as being competition in a way that men don't understand. In my experience, a casual glance at a girl, and girl, can be enough for the girl I'm with to A) get mad at me, and B) find nasty things to say about the girl, even if she's never seen her before.

#22 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-14 09:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

How is it that what I look like and how I dress constitutes the level of respect you give me?

-----

It's human nature. We make judgments based on appearances.

#23 | Posted by Pirate at 2014-05-15 10:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

And I'm sure she gives different levels of respect to people based on how they look and dress.

#24 | Posted by Pirate at 2014-05-15 10:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

After reading her full blog post, I think her story isn't what really happened. She said she was pulled aside after 15 minutes of being there and her friend said she only danced for 2 seconds. She then says repeatedly that her date was respectful when asking why was being asked to leave but was also very angry and very frustrated. I don't know many adults let alone teenagers who can be respectful and very angry and frustrated at the same time. Then she says at they left, her friends yelled profanities at the security guards and she herself flipped them off. She apologized for that. But the blog post is called "---- the Patriarchy" and she says "ass" and "-------".

My guess is she's probably known in her home school circle as a bad influence and was kicked out for that.

#25 | Posted by Pirate at 2014-05-15 11:07 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

What's wrong with "ass" and "-------"? I think I'd need to read it for context. "---- the Patriarchy" by itself is a pretty good example of merging vulgarity with high vocabulary. I like it.

#26 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-05-15 12:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

What's wrong with "ass" and "-------"?

----

Isn't it a conservative Christian homeschool group? That type of language is generally frowned upon in such groups. If somebody is comfortable using that language in public writing, they're going to use it in general conversation as well.

#27 | Posted by Pirate at 2014-05-15 12:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here's the blog:

www.hannahettinger.com

#28 | Posted by Pirate at 2014-05-15 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

#25 | Posted by Pirate at 2014-05-15 11:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

Not following your logic. Whatever she did after they already decided to mess with her has nothing to do with why they decided to mess with her.

#29 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-15 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

After reading her full blog post, I think her story isn't what really happened.

Me neither. It seems to me like an embellishment to make the people who dress coded her sound as evil as possible.

#30 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-15 12:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not following your logic. Whatever she did after they already decided to mess with her has nothing to do with why they decided to mess with her.

----

Many homeschool families form homeschooling groups so homeschooling families get to know each other. I'm wondering if she might not have had the best reputation within the homeschool groups prior to the prom (ie, seen by adults as somebody to keep a watchful eye on).

#31 | Posted by Pirate at 2014-05-15 01:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Her sister is certainly trying to cash in on this...

And: if anyone wants to fly me home for her graduation party on Saturday, I wouldn't object!

...

p.s. If you want to support Clare's college aspirations, any donations via PayPal on the side designated for her will go into a fund for her textbooks for this coming fall.

#32 | Posted by Pirate at 2014-05-15 01:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm wondering if she might not have had the best reputation within the homeschool groups prior to the prom (ie, seen by adults as somebody to keep a watchful eye on).

#31 | Posted by Pirate at 2014-05-15 01:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Maybe but that still would have nothing to do with whether she was being treated fairly on this particular night.

If they didn't want her there based on her reputation, the sensible thing to tell her she's banned well in advance.

They didn't do that so if she was there and following the rules they have no reason to throw her out.

#33 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-15 04:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

They didn't do that so if she was there and following the rules they have no reason to throw her out.

----

That's a 17 year old girl's story. Notice how she didn't do anything wrong and she and her boyfriend where respectful but all the adult males are perverts and the adult females are the ones being rude and disrespectful.

I think I'll take her story with a truckload of salt.

#34 | Posted by Pirate at 2014-05-15 05:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

27: Got it. I thought you were judging her based on those words. Apparently, you meant to suggest something else.

#35 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-05-15 06:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

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