Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, May 13, 2014

When David Jones opens Smoke and Water in June in Parksville, Canada, customers at the 155-seat restaurant in the British Columbia resort town will never have to crunch the numbers to determine what 10, 15 or 20 per cent of their bill is to leave a gratuity. Instead of tipping, Jones has increased menu prices by about 18 percent and intends to pay his staff a living wage, which is a business model accepted around the world in places such as Japan, New Zealand, Australia and parts of Europe. "Tipping is a broken business model,? said Jones, an admitted neophyte in the hospitality industry.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Servers should get at least minimum wage pay. Tipping is supposed to be giving something extra.

#1 | Posted by rearendhat at 2014-05-13 08:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

Service staff will now pay more taxes. Cash tips are quite easily hidden from the taxman...

#2 | Posted by catdog at 2014-05-13 08:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

Darn the tax dodging wait staff! lol

#3 | Posted by rearendhat at 2014-05-13 08:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

Good. Hope this catches on.

#4 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-05-13 08:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Service staff will now pay more taxes."

They will also earn more money. My ambition is to be in the highest tax bracket.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-13 08:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Service staff will now pay more taxes."

If they were concerned about taxes they wouldn't be in Canada in the first place.

#6 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-05-13 08:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

They will also earn more money.

They will earn more wages. The really talented and hard-working waiters may end up earning less money overall if their loss in tips exceeds their gain in wage.

#7 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-13 08:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

"The really talented and hard-working waiters may end up earning less money overall if their loss in tips exceeds their gain in wage."

If that happens they can always come to the U.S. and earn $2.13 per hour.

#8 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-13 09:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

"...talented and hard-working waiters may end up earning less money overall."

I doubt it. This place hasn't even opened yet so any staff who doesn't like the no-tipping model does not have to work there in the first place.

#9 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-05-13 09:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

I deal with Australians on a daily basis and when they first come to the US they are shocked when we tip. They may not be entirely unaware of the concept, but it is new to them in practice. I would like to sit down and have dinner and assume my wait-staff is receiving a day's pay for a day's work without relying on my expression of appreciation...and that's how I view a tip. Not everyone does, obviously. Some on this board (lord knows we've haggled over it enough) believe that 'gratuity' means we are saying "thank you" (gratuity = gratitude) and that every server deserves it. I and others believe that excellent service deserves an excellent tip, but that crappy service deserves my disdain. In this way, excellent wait-staff earns more than terrible wait-staff, which is how it should be. The no-tip model ensures that surly, arrogant and inattentive waiters receive the same compensation as friendly, gracious and attentive waiters...and that is just not right. You could argue that I could still tip the really good ones, and I might, but certainly not the 20 or 25% I would in the other situation, knowing that 18% had already been tacked onto my bill.

BLUF: The no-tip model is taking money from the excellent workers and giving it to the bad ones. To each according to their need, right?

#10 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-05-13 09:13 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

"The no-tip model ensures that surly, arrogant and inattentive waiters receive the same compensation as friendly, gracious and attentive waiters...and that is just not right."

But it is right for virtually every other line of work? Why should food servers be more or less rewarded or penalized by performance when the same people doing the tipping don't face a similar system in their job?
Tipping is a result of food service workers being mostly women who worked virtually for free in hopes that those they served might throw them some tiny amount of money so they could eat. It's actually very demeaning and not a proper system for the modern world. Food service workers should earn a living wage like everyone else.

#11 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-13 09:24 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Good. It's ridiculous that wait staff are expected to receive a living wage only if they please each and every customer's individual needs with a plastered-on fake smile. How many other professions are expected to meet this standard? (Oh I'm sorry doctor, I didn't appreciate your bedside manner so I hope this $2.13 will cover my one hour appointment. Yes Mr. Mechanic, you changed my oil, but it wasn't done with a pleasant enough demeanor, so I'm going to deduct $55 from your hourly labor rate.)

#12 | Posted by censored at 2014-05-13 09:25 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Hmm ... looks like Danni beat me to it ... :)

#13 | Posted by censored at 2014-05-13 09:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

"The no-tip model ensures that surly, arrogant and inattentive waiters receive the same compensation as friendly, gracious and attentive waiters..."

A lot of places pool their tips anyway, so that happens already.

#14 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-05-13 09:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

Include taxes as well, in other words,use Euro model.

#15 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2014-05-13 09:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

Interesting experiment. Will people who hate tipping frequent this place? Or will they avoid it due to higher menu prices and prove that what they really hate is paying?

#16 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-13 09:31 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

But it is right for virtually every other line of work? Why should food servers be more or less rewarded or penalized by performance when the same people doing the tipping don't face a similar system in their job?
Tipping is a result of food service workers being mostly women who worked virtually for free in hopes that those they served might throw them some tiny amount of money so they could eat. It's actually very demeaning and not a proper system for the modern world. Food service workers should earn a living wage like everyone else.

#11 | POSTED BY DANNI

One of my cousins has been a bar-tender for over 15 years. He LOVES the tipping model because he's really good at what he does and he hustles. He makes really good money in spite of his really low wage that you find demeaning.

#17 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-13 09:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

Will people who hate tipping frequent this place? Or will they avoid it due to higher menu prices and prove that what they really hate is paying?
#16 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-13 09:31 AM

Many restaurants that cater to foreign tourists do this already to avoid servers being hurt by the cheap or ignorant. Just something to be aware of; if you don't want to inadvertently double-tip read the bill.

#19 | Posted by censored at 2014-05-13 09:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

#18

It's a nice break from the stuff currently dominating the news, Jest. Not to mention it's making for (IMO) an interesting discussion regarding the merits, or lack of, of the tipping business model.

#20 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-13 09:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

@ #18

You left out Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright and the birth certificate.

#21 | Posted by censored at 2014-05-13 09:45 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

#18 And yet you felt obligated to opine.

www.tickld.com

#22 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-13 09:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

Will people who hate tipping frequent this place? Or will they avoid it due to higher menu prices and prove that what they really hate is paying?

#16 | POSTED BY SULLY AT 2014-05-13 09:31 AM | REPLY | FLAG:

I am sure that is not directed at anyone we know.

#23 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-13 09:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

When I go to Europe, I tip anyway. I also tip roofers, movers, gas pumpers, baristas, musicians, painters and lots of other folks who already make a regular wage. It's a nice way to say you appreciate others serving you. Also in many cases, it's good to tip up front. When I was a mover it really made the day better and you were in a much better mood (more careful and attentive) if the customer slipped you a tenner up front.
That being said, I hate being told when to tip and would never get pissed, as my co-workers would, when someone didn't tip.

#24 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-05-13 09:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

"He makes really good money in spite of his really low wage that you find demeaning."

Good for him but I've known waitresses most of my life. Seems the better looking they are the more they make in tips. Like I said, demeaning. I'd rather know that I will receive a fair day's pay for a fair day's work even if the customers aren't necessarily pleased with my personality or looks. I have never been good at kissing butt.

#25 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-13 09:50 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#18 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-05-13 09:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

Well apparently you found a sliver of time between combatting Nigerian terror gangs and saving the Ukraine to post on this thread. Why are you assuming nobody else did?

#26 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-13 09:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

Tipping is Un-American!

Too Insure Promptitude (without attitude), the elites from Europe started tipping in the US after the civil war to show their status.

To quote the great (maybe not) William Scott

"In the American democracy to be servile is incompatible with citizenship. Every tip given in the United States is a blow at our experiment in democracy. The custom announces to the world…that we do not believe practically that "all men are created equal." Unless a waiter can be a gentleman, democracy is a failure. If any form of service is menial, democracy is a failure. Those Americans who dislike self-respect in servants are undesirable citizens; they belong in an aristocracy."

Imagine now, that tipping is really a show of status....

Would you tip?

#27 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-13 09:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

I deal with Australians on a daily basis and when they first come to the US they are shocked when we tip. They may not be entirely unaware of the concept, but it is new to them in practice.

Just in restaurants, or tipping in general? IOW, do they not tip taxi drivers, the barber, etc.?

#28 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-13 09:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

One of my cousins has been a bar-tender for over 15 years. He LOVES the tipping model because he's really good at what he does and he hustles. He makes really good money in spite of his really low wage that you find demeaning.

#17 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

I've heard similar stories from hard working waitstaff and barkeeps who bring home $300+ a night.

#29 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-13 10:02 AM | Reply | Flag:

A lot of places pool their tips anyway,

When I was in HS, I worked at an upscale restaurant as a busboy and dishwasher. They did the tip pool thing. The problem with it is that the waiters would sometimes pocket their tips or not declare them all at the end of the night. Also, some of the busboys would steal them if they got to a table before the waiter when the patrons left.

Of course now most people use credit cards so those problems might not be so prevalent.

#30 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-13 10:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

"I've heard similar stories from hard working waitstaff and barkeeps who bring home $300+ a night."

I've known some who made great money and lots more who made almost nothing.

#31 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-13 10:07 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Goat,

I kid you not. He would literally get home from work at night and stuff his tip money under his mattress. When he moved a couple of years ago, he and his dad counted over $10,000 in small bills under his mattress.

#32 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-13 10:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

I have never been good at kissing butt.

#25 | POSTED BY DANNI

I am guessing you've never worked in a service business if you equate working hard and attempting to make your customers happy with "kissing butt".

#33 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-13 10:08 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 4

I tip anyway. I also tip roofers, movers, gas pumpers, baristas, musicians, painters and lots of other folks who already make a regular wage. It's a nice way to say you appreciate others serving you. Also in many cases, it's good to tip up front. When I was a mover it really made the day better and you were in a much better mood (more careful and attentive) if the customer slipped you a tenner up front.

POSTED BY TFDNIHILIST AT 2014-05-13 09:49 AM

Good point. And a tip doesn't have to be in the form of money. When I have someone doing work at my house I'll often feed them lunch or make a snack for them or keep them filled with home made tea or lemonade. They appreciate it and do a better job.

#34 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-13 10:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

"I am guessing you've never worked in a service business if you equate working hard and attempting to make your customers happy with "kissing butt"."

Not food service but I was actually pretty successful in sales, my customers appreciated the good service I gave them but I earned commissions not tips.

"I tip anyway. I also tip roofers, movers, gas pumpers, baristas, musicians, painters and lots of other folks who already make a regular wage."

I do the same, I just don't want my tip to be their primary source of income, I want their employer who is profiting off of my purchase to pay his help enough to live. Tips, if given at all, should just be a bonus.

#35 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-13 10:14 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Imagine now, that tipping is really a show of status....

Would you tip?

#27 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-13 09:54 AM | Reply | Flag:"

No doubt it still is a show of status for some people. To me it isn't. To me its just part of the cost of using certain services. If I don't want to tip then I don't need to sit at table and be served. So yes, I always tip regardless of what connotations others put on it.

My first job was a bus boy in an Italian restaurant. There may have been a real mob guy or two who ate there. But there were more wanna be types who wanted to play the part. And they were very into conspicuous tipping. The busboys were tipped out by the waiters but these guys would tip us directly and make sure everyone saw. Some would go to shake your hand and then put a bill in there and close your hand around the bill. But the real artists were great at handing you the bill while looking the other way, pretending that they are being inconspicuous about it while at the same time making sure people could see them doing it. I understood that they were trying to look important and that I was just a prop in their act. Never bothered me.

#36 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-13 10:40 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I don't mind tipping, but if restaurants around here adopted the no-tipping model I would support them with my business. I think it's an interesting idea that ought to be tried more often in the U.S.

#37 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-13 11:39 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The no-tipping concept is ideal for a place that's going to have a tourist-heavy clientele as this restaurant would appear to be in a resort town. Tourists tend to tip on the low end of the scale in my experience as a server and manager at a Capitol Hill restaurant. Capitol staffers (non-interns) are our bread and butter when it comes to gratuity. Parties that use our private rooms are required to sign contracts that guarantee they'll pay twenty percent.

#38 | Posted by DCTexan at 2014-05-13 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

A lot of places pool their tips anyway,

I remember in college I worked as a parking valet for the alumni dinner. That issue was brought up by the valets and shot down by the head valet saying "everyone earns their own tips and should keep them." Sounds good right?

Well he was in charge of assigning the valets to go get the cars, never fetched one car himself and every single person who picked up the car tipped him and not the runners.

So for seven hours of work hustling my ass off, I was paid $10.

It was a valuable education to never do that again.

#39 | Posted by 726 at 2014-05-13 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

If I was still bartending/waiting tables a policy like this would bother me. I normally made better money than most of my counterparts because I was better at it than they were. I was quicker, more successful at upselling, and generally friendlier to my guests. In fact it took me ten years after I graduated from college to earn a comparable per hour rate. I wouldn't be thrilled at the idea of being paid the same as the rest for far superior work. My expectation is that this restaurant will be staffed by people who couldn't get work at establishments that allow tipping and it will show in the quality of service.

#40 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2014-05-13 02:15 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Smoke and Water" ..?

#41 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-05-13 02:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

The no-tip model is taking money from the excellent workers and giving it to the bad ones.

No it's not! Good workers can still be paid more than bad workers. Bad workers can still be fired.

#42 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-13 02:28 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#40 -- I had you pegged as the perfect waitperson for me until you got to the upselling part. I hate with a passion when the waiter asks me, "Would you like to try our ________?" I am a polite person, but I always come so close to saying, "If I wanted to try it, I would have told you" -- unless of course it is a special that's not on the menu. I'm a generous tipper, but trying to upsell me will definitely result in a 2% or 3% deduction on the tip meter.

Likewise, I don't like hovering. Some waiters think this is a sign of good service, but it's not. Don't get me wrong, I like to have my coffee cup full, but a waiter can see if I need it. They don't need to interrupt my meal and conversation every three minutes to ask.

#43 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-13 02:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

I have no problem with including a tip as part of the cost of the meal. Generally speaking, only -------- don't leave tips or sufficient tips in the first place. Being a waiter/waitress is a hard job. They deserve a decent wage. If you don't like it, eat out less.

#44 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-05-13 02:41 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#43 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-13 02:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

I have a similar attitude about service. If something is a house specialty its nice for a waiter to mention it. But continuous upselling is pretty annoying to me - especially if I've already said no and they ask "Are you sure?" and then start hyping up something I have zero interest in. I hate hovering even more.

But the thing is, some people like this stuff. I have some friends who eat out way more often than I do and who make it a point to try every fancy five star place in NJ-NYC area. One of them always asks the waiter to recommend dishes. And I've been to restaurants with them where I felt like the waiter was up my butt the whole time and should have left us alone and they will be complaining about inattentiveness.

On stuff like this, I always assume I'm in the minority though. Alot of people seem to view interacting with the waiter as a part of the overall experience whereas I view it as something that should be barely noticed.

#45 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-13 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I can honestly say that I like the model of no tipping. A lot of fast food chains have tipping cups at the register now. Not sure how that deserves a tip, they are not paid as wait staff. I am seeing tipping containers everywhere now and many professions are expecting them... From Hair stylist and Massage Therapists to Car Wash attendees and Cab drivers. Everywhere you look now people are requesting tips.

#46 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2014-05-13 03:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

From Hair stylist and Massage Therapists to Car Wash attendees and Cab drivers. Everywhere you look now people are requesting tips.

I tip all those folks. I always have. But I use a barber, not a hair stylist.

I never put money in a tip jar by the register. That's a bit presumptuous

#47 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-13 03:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

#44 | Posted by moder8

I do agree with you and there are people that will runs wait staff around and demand perfection and then leave no tip. I have no respect for those people because they know the model full well and choose to abuse it.

#48 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2014-05-13 03:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

If I don't like the service I'll still tip, but then I destroy their bathroom. It teaches them that the service industry is a sector they want to get out of as soon as possible. I'm doing them a real solid.

#49 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-05-13 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

If I don't like the service I'll still tip, but then I destroy their bathroom. It teaches them that the service industry is a sector they want to get out of as soon as possible. I'm doing them a real solid.

#49 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

After a Tiger's game last year I popped into a restaurant that was right by where we parked. The place was dead and I asked if I could use their bathroom. They told me I either had to be a customer or that I could use it for $5. I had to piss something fierce so I paid them. When I went in there I forced a dump and then didn't flush.

#50 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-13 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

What kind of person holds a bathroom hostage like that and doesn't expect something bad to happen?

I would have urinated on the toilet paper roll and ripped the hand dryer off the wall, but not before over flowing the urinal I just defecated in.

Then I would have calmly walked out, thanked them for the use of their facility, and grabbed a mint and/or toothpick on my way out.

#51 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-05-13 04:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh, and no way am I washing my hands.

#52 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-05-13 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh, and no way am I washing my hands

I never wash my hands after I pee [...].

#53 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-13 04:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Good thing this restaraunt doesn't eliminate strippers, lumberjacks, people named Gordie, and mullets, or they'd never make it, eh.

#54 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-05-13 04:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sully your waiter experience is completely foreign to us Westies...

#55 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-13 04:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

When I went in there I forced a dump and then didn't flush.

You should've left it on the floor. ALso, I would've asked for a receipt for the $5. You know darn well that person pocketed it -- it didn't go to the restaurant.

#56 | Posted by goatman at 2014-05-13 04:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm doing them a real solid.

#49 | POSTED BY 101CHAIRBORNE

Unless it's a mexican joint or chinese place...then, not maybe so "solid".;P

#57 | Posted by Lohocla at 2014-05-13 04:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

#50 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-13 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Given the baseball theme and all, seems like a good time to leave them an upper decker.

#58 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-13 04:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sully, Chair and Goat.

Great suggestions from all of you. I thought about some of these things after the fact.

What I really should have done was wad up a boatload of toilet paper and flush it causing the toilet to clog and THEN take my dump after the toilet was clogged.

#59 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-13 04:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Nothin but class here on the DR nothin but class...

#60 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-13 04:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sully your waiter experience is completely foreign to us Westies...

#55 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-13 04:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

The funniest pretentious waiter thing I've seen was at Commander's Palace in New Orleans. They bring out everyone's food at once and have to placed it in front of everyone at exactly the same time. So if you have a table of 12 or so, which we did, then 12 waiters come out and one gets in back of every person and the plates all hit the table at the same time. I'm sure they aren't the only ones to do it but its the only time I've seen that.

The New York guys still complained about lack of service after that one.....

#61 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-13 05:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sully, I have seen that, when Naples wasn't a hipster hang out, but older money, grandmother despised this service, but my fathers wife ate it up........

It was quite humorous to a Californian, not to say we don't have our places, but nothing I have seen that formal.

Though I have never seen 12 people served that way, must have been quite a stir to get everyone together. Like the old Farrells singing happy birthday........

#62 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-13 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Though I have never seen 12 people served that way, must have been quite a stir to get everyone together. Like the old Farrells singing happy birthday........

#62 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-13 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

It was funny because we were there for a bachelor party. We were all very drunk and for the most part, badly underdressed. And while they were coordinating this whole simultaneous serving thing, half the table was loudly commenting on what they were doing. A few guys clapped afterwards, just like a Farrells. The host and the bartender seemed to enjoy us but the waiters didn't find us amusing at all. I told one waiter off on the way out because he kept making faces the whole time.

I was the best man and this was the only thing I had been asked to schedule by the groom. If I hadn't made the reservation for 6pm when nobody else would be there, I'm sure we would have been refused service.

#63 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-13 05:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

The other event I organized for everyone on that trip was a George Clinton concert. My idea and a much better time.

#64 | Posted by Sully at 2014-05-13 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Where is this place again?

#65 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-13 06:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

My ambition is to be in the highest tax bracket.

Wow..

#66 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-13 06:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

My ambition is to be in the highest tax bracket.

My ambition is to be in a low tax bracket.. Like Romney.

#67 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-13 06:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Being a waiter/waitress is a hard job.

#44 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-05-13 02:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

And completely voluntary. As is tipping. Waiters, like teachers, doctors, ditch diggers, engineers and politicians are familiar with the wage scale of their industry and VOLUNTEER to become a member of said workforce. If they don't like their compensation, they are free to move on to a higher paying profession by IMPROVING themselves.

Most people work hard - sometimes it just doesn't involve sweat.

BTW - I had 3 paper routes, was a waiter in college, was a maid at Red Roof Inn during summer break ($5/hr when minimum was $3.25), and was a substitute teacher for a whopping $44/day - waiting tables at night. I didn't have any kids or a wife to support so I can't comment on those added stresses - but for the most part we make our own beds.

"It's not tipping I believe in, it's over-tipping" - Vincent 'Vinnie' Antonelli

#68 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2014-05-13 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

My ambition is to be in the highest tax bracket.

Wow..

#66 | Posted by boaz at 2014-05-13 06:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

LOL - if you're going to dream, dream big. Must be the pot boaz.

#69 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2014-05-13 06:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

FTA:

"I think (Jones) may be on to something," he said. "There is potential to market this and create some product differentiation."

"There are low barriers to entry in the restaurant industry, and there's one on every corner fighting to find some difference with a competitor ... As a business strategy, I don't think it's a bad one right now."

Frank Bourree is not so sure.

The principal of Victoria-based Chemistry Consulting and a hospitality industry expert, said he's not surprised Jones has no restaurant experience.

"It seems a bit naive to me," said Bourree, who thinks it may be harder for Jones to attract wait staff who are used to making most of their money through tips.


An owner that eliminated tips in San Diego disagrees with Bouree. His story is an interesting read that parallels this thread's Canadian version:
Restaurant customers like tipping because it puts them in the driver's seat. As a diner, you control your experience, using the power of your tip to make sure your server works hard for you.

Restaurant servers like tipping because it means their talent is rewarded. As a great server, you get paid more than your peers, because you are a better worker.

Restaurant owners like tipping because it means they don't have to pay for managers to closely supervise their servers. With customers using tips to enforce good service, owners can be confident that servers will do their best work.

There's only one problem: none of this is actually true. I know because I ran the experiment myself.

For over eight years, I was the owner and operator of San Diego's farm-to-table restaurant The Linkery, until we closed it this summer to move to San Francisco. At first, we ran the Linkery like every other restaurant in America, letting tips provide compensation and motivation for our team. In our second year, however, we tired of the tip system, and we eliminated tipping from our restaurant. We instead applied a straight 18% service charge to all dining-in checks, and refused to accept any further payment. We became the first and, for years, the only table-service restaurant in America where you couldn't pay more money than the amount we charged you.

You can guess what happened. Our service improved, our revenue went up, and both our business and our employees made more money. Here's why: ...

qz.com

#70 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-05-13 06:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I hate with a passion when the waiter asks me, "Would you like to try our ________?"

Amateurs try to upsell after a guest has already made up their minds. Then it comes off as desperate. You plant the seed when you introduce yourself, even before you show up to take the drink order. Otherwise the opportunity is over.

"Likewise, I don't like hovering."

If you keep your eyes open and are attentive to the guest's physical cues you don't have to hover. A lot of waiters hover because if they don't then their managers might ask them to clean something.

#71 | Posted by Hagbard_Celine at 2014-05-13 07:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Same story, similar to link in #70: www.slate.com

#72 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-05-13 07:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

I never wash my hands after I pee ...

I don't know why you keep telling people this, when you've already seen this link:

magazine.good.is

You're proclaiming that you spread fecal bacteria on everything you touch after you go to the bathroom.

#73 | Posted by rcade at 2014-05-13 10:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

If that happens they can always come to the U.S. and earn $2.13 per hour.

#8 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-13 09:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

I made great money as a server, nothing demeaning about it, and I made way above minimum wage. Eventually I took a pay cut, and went back to the kitchen because humans can be incredibly rude, and after 5 years they wore me down.

Although I sit on the fence on this issue, it might be good for the hard working, friendly server. If business have to pay minimum wage or more, they might begin to pay attention to some of there less qualified workers and remove them. The hard working always have to subsidize the lazy.

#74 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-13 11:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Tipping always stresses me out. How much is too much? Is it ok to not tip? How much is the waiter/waitress expecting me to tip? In general I try to go somewhere in between 10 and 20% and try to make it a nice whole dollar amount on my total. Though honestly I am probably just paranoid.

#75 | Posted by mariosanchez at 2014-05-13 11:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

75 | Posted by mariosanchez

Tipping should not cause stress. I'd say over 25% is really pushing it. If you don't want to tip, don't. Just don't expect above average service in places you chose to frequent if you do not. I have no idea what is expected... depends where you are. I'd guess 10% minimum. I usually shoot for as close to 20% as my mental arithmetic skills can hit, and round up when in doubt.

#76 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-05-14 12:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

#76 | Posted by REDIAL

I know it shouldn't, I just feel like it is expected of me, so I feel like it is important. I also don't want to ruin the day of someone who thought they had done a decent job. One thing is I never leave a tip if one is already put on there (assuming I notice).

#77 | Posted by mariosanchez at 2014-05-14 12:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

"One thing is I never leave a tip if one is already put on there (assuming I notice)."

I can see that. I was in Aruba a few weeks ago and some places add 18% and some don't. They are required to report it on the bill before you pay it so you can decide to add another tip or not.

I usually do unless my experience was bad, but I don't see bad service very often.

#78 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-05-14 12:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sounds like something a democrat dreamed up. Take from the hardworking and exceptional and give to the average or lazy.

#79 | Posted by mcmlcxx at 2014-05-14 02:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Sounds like something a democrat dreamed up."

So you object to a business owner being able to decide how to run his business?

#80 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-05-14 07:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

Ever been dressed down by a waitress, because you forgot to tip??

Ruined the whole evening. Pay the servers a living wage for crying out loud.

My wife audits all our restaurant checks now, and she leaves the tip, or tells me how much.

A kid I know was an exchange student in Germany and his friends thought he was an arrogant ass for leaving money on the table.

#81 | Posted by Marty at 2014-05-14 11:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

LOL... well I usually leave more than 18% so if I ate at this place the servers would get less from me.

Now there is no incentive to give good service. That's fine... people can just eat somewhere else. Servers making a poor income because they suck at what they do will eventually leave. This guy is stuck with the best and worst for as long as he is in business.

Nice experiment. Let's see how long it lasts.

#82 | Posted by sames1 at 2014-05-14 11:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

because you forgot to tip??

How do you "forget" to tip?

#83 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2014-05-14 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

Now there is no incentive to give good service.

#82 | Posted by sames1

As I said earlier.. Good workers can still be paid more than bad workers. Bad workers can still be fired.

Of course there's still incentive for good service. Attentive employers will reward good service by their employees. Not so attentive employers will simply lose good employees.. As it should be.

#84 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-14 12:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

because you forgot to tip??

How do you "forget" to tip?

#83 | Posted by kwrx25

Well, I don't go out much, I prefer to cook at home, or my wife does.
Way better meals at home, locally raised beef and pork, large garden with fresh veggies etc...

Was on vacation and out having a nice meal, drinking a bit and involved in conversation etc.. laid cash on dinner bill, just didn't think about the socio impact of being distracted. My bad, but for crying out loud to be dressed down at a resort town for paying the bill that was presented? Outlandish.

#85 | Posted by Marty at 2014-05-14 12:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

My ambition is to be in the highest tax bracket.

#5 | Posted by danni

You want to be a secretary?

#86 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-14 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's a Boaz wet dream.

#87 | Posted by mOntecOre at 2014-05-14 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

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