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Friday, May 09, 2014

During a speech in Rome Friday to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon and other U.N. leaders, Pope Francis called for governments to redistribute wealth to the poor to curb the "economy of exclusion" that is taking hold today. More equal economic progress can be had through "the legitimate redistribution of economic benefits by the state, as well as indispensable cooperation between the private sector and civil society," Francis said.

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madbomber

 

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Maybe the Pope should start by redistributing the $10B-$15B the Catholic Church currently holds.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Commie bastard. - The Right
Tax the bastard. - The Left

#1 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2014-05-09 11:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

Does this mean that he's going tot set the example by using giving away the billions the Vatican has in land, and other wealth. Years ago I toured the Vatican and I do believe if they sold off to collectors the artifacts they have in their museums they could hand the proceeds to the poor. That alone would establish their sincerity to the governments of the world.

#2 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-05-09 01:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

This new pope is causing rightwing heads to explode. He seems to take the social philosophy of Jesus seriously.

#3 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-05-09 01:52 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

Actually, I love it that the lefties suddenly love the Pope and the Catholic Church. Much like how they suddenly loved Roberts when he gave them the ACA. Unfortunately love from the lefties is a fleeting thing.

#4 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-05-09 02:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Mad I doubt you know how much money the Vatican has let alone would understand why giving away the liquid assets they have would be a bad idea.

The Pope is operating at a level few elected officials and no dictators understand.

#5 | Posted by Tor at 2014-05-09 03:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Mad I doubt you know how much money the Vatican has"

$10B-$15B is the numner given by Time Magazine. But you're correct, I don't have access to their financial statements.

"let alone would understand why giving away the liquid assets they have would be a bad idea."

Not "giving away." Redistributing. Amongst the poor.

And if it's good for the goose, why not the gander?

#6 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-09 03:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

"This new pope is causing rightwing heads to explode. He seems to take the social philosophy of Jesus seriously."

I blame monotheism.

#7 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-09 03:54 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

Unfortunately love from the lefties is a fleeting thing.

#4 | Posted by MSgt

Tis better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all.

When will the GOTP show some love for the People?

#8 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-09 04:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Actually, I love it that the lefties suddenly love the Pope and the Catholic Church. Much like how they suddenly loved Roberts when he gave them the ACA. Unfortunately love from the lefties is a fleeting thing.

#4 | Posted by MSgt

Saying they prefer a pope who follows the teaching of the book he claims to believe in hardly means lefties "love the pope" now. It's just refreshing to hear one talk about real issues instead of ---- sex and abortions.

#9 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-09 04:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

#4 | Posted by MSgt

I find it interesting that you think because someone likes certain actions by one person, then someone must also "love" everything that person is associated with. Why are you assigning such false associations?

#10 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-09 04:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

#10 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT AT 2014-05-09 04:47 PM | FLAG: I believe that is as accurate as most portrayals of the right by the lefties.

#11 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-05-09 05:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Saying they prefer a pope who follows the teaching of the book he claims to believe in hardly means lefties "love the pope" now. It's just refreshing to hear one talk about real issues instead of ---- sex and abortions."

Wealth redistribution does't fire up the base like gays or creationism...

#12 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-09 05:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

#11

Does Romney "love" everything liberal now that he thinks minimum wage should be raised?

#13 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-05-09 05:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Mad, Like everyone else the vatican has bills to pay.

Unlike everyone else the vatican's finances are likely invested in such a way that if to much of it were disposed of it could cause more suffering than it could fix.

'I blame monotheism.'

Hands down the best post I've read today.

#14 | Posted by Tor at 2014-05-09 05:30 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

This new pope is causing the religious rights heads to explode. He seems to take the social philosophy of Jesus seriously.
#3 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

FTFY

I could care less what the Pope thinks.......

#15 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-09 05:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

I could care less what the Pope thinks.......

#15 | Posted by AndreaMackris

You'd better care. Without religous people voting to impose their morality on others, the republican party would be finished. Their aren't enough millionaires to win elections so they rely on BS culture wars to gain the support of bible thumpers.

#16 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-05-09 06:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not "giving away." Redistributing. Amongst the poor.

And if it's good for the goose, why not the gander?

#6 | Posted by madbomber

I don't see any of the lefties doing that either.

Lefties like to give away someone elses money, not their own.

I reached into my wallet and gave the Salvation Army a $5 and my dem friend reached into MY wallet and gave them a $20.br />

#17 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-09 06:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Without religous people voting to impose their morality on others, the republican party would be finished. Their aren't enough millionaires to win elections so they rely on BS culture wars to gain the support of bible thumpers.

#16 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

And the left just imposes BS beliefs on everyone.

#18 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-09 06:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

"And the left just imposes BS beliefs on everyone."

You saying the Pope is full of BS? Are you a Christian?

#19 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-05-09 06:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

"religous people voting to impose their morality"

What like universal healthcare?

Banning the death penalty?

ending drone strikes?

#20 | Posted by Tor at 2014-05-09 07:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Christ always led by example. Hopefully, this pope and the church will lead by example by divesting a large amount of their wealth and giving it to the poor. The problem with governments doing the same is that the .1%ers that got us into this horrible problem of insolvency will define who is taxed and how much. You can bet that these globalists will not be affected like the rest of us. It will mean more folks moving into poverty with the .1%ers solidifying their wealth and power even more in order to move toward the one world government they cherish.

#21 | Posted by matsop at 2014-05-09 07:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

This new pope is causing rightwing heads to explode. He seems to take the social philosophy of Jesus seriously.

------

Neither partys bosses like what he's saying because they are the same criminals. That is why all the sex charges: a form of blackmail to keep them from speaking out against the war or terror.

The truth is that the roman catholic church has been plastic wrap over these things for over 1000 years. It gets hauled out these days not because of caring for the abused, but as a way to keep the church from telling christians that murder for oil is evil.

#22 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-09 07:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

I wonder if the conservative Cardinals who voted for him are having second thoughts ...LOL

#23 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-05-09 08:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

I like the fact this pope isn't on script. I hope he turns that church inside out. I don't care much in the whole scheme of things, but it sure is an unexpected source of mild entertainment.

#24 | Posted by 101Chairborne at 2014-05-09 09:06 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Care to read the entire thing in context, rather than as wishfully editorialized by MSM?

w2.vatican.va

I know that is difficult for the left to do, so let me point out he did not advocate marxism, socialism liberalism or any other ism but Catholicism. He did not call for government to take money by force and redistribute it, in other words.
Read it.

#25 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-09 10:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Without religous people voting to impose their morality on others, the republican party would be finished. Their aren't enough millionaires to win elections so they rely on BS culture wars to gain the support of bible thumpers.

#16 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Please, the left is doing a fine job of imposing their morality on others. Whenever the government gets involved in anything its imposing a morality.

Historically the Progressives and the Religious were the same, see Woodrow Wilson.... they diverged over abortion.

I am not worried about culture wars or the like, the only thing I am worried about is the deficit.

I would give you what ever you wanted if you balanced the budget......

#26 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-05-09 11:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Specifically, this involves challenging all forms of injustice and resisting the "economy of exclusion", the "throwaway culture" and the "culture of death" which nowadays sadly risk becoming passively accepted."

The Pope in the exact same address. Hmmmm, 'culture of death' got ignored in the MSM story....

#27 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-09 11:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Please, the left is doing a fine job of imposing their morality on others. Whenever the government gets involved in anything its imposing a morality.

----------

Both parties impose fascism through the corporate person by default. There is no left in American politics.

There are no real liberals in power nor fascist media in the usa.

Not one.

#28 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-09 11:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then what are you, Shawn? Tell us (in fewer than a few words) what you are.
That will enable your opponents to call you fascist.

#29 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-10 12:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

Oh, Madbomber:

"…an awareness of the dignity of each of our brothers and sisters whose life is sacred and inviolable from conception to natural death must lead us to share with complete freedom the goods which God's providence has placed in our hands, material goods but also intellectual and spiritual ones, and to give back generously and lavishly whatever we may have earlier unjustly refused to others."

#30 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-10 12:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

"I wonder if the conservative Cardinals who voted for him are having second thoughts"

They have a Pope that's against gay marriage, against abortion, against abortion and against divorce.

They're just happy as can be to see a Pope that's all these things and lovable.

#31 | Posted by Tor at 2014-05-10 12:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Thank you, Tor. As much as we disagree on things I wish there were a million more of you.

#32 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-10 01:00 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Please note in my quote from #30: the Pope is calling for redistribution of intellectual and spiritual goods as well.
Imagine a leftist redistributing intellectual gifts....it might call for a Harvard professor to give a recommendation for graduate studies to a Mormon rather than an atheist, Unitarian or leftist.
The 1% of those people can not be questioned.

#33 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-10 01:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

As I've stated here before: I'm a real classical liberal.

The only real one outside of nullifidian who posts on this site with any regularity.

Occasionally nutcase and a couple of others say some things that a real liberal would say, but the rest are right wingers of various dispositions who occasionally deviate slightly from the fascist dynamic(drug war/abortion), and thus think that they are liberals; they are not.

#34 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-10 02:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

The problem with redistribution is that the wealth will ALWAYS, without exception, tend to accumulate more with the 'distributers' than with anyone else.

This is true with corrupt distributers, and non-corrupt ones.

And I don't just mean the individual running things, I mean their whole staff too. And that staff will grow to the absorb the limits of the wealth present. All for 'necessary' reasons.

And chew on this: A large part of existing problems of wealth inequity are due to this very problem.

If society decides it has to do some sort of redistribution, at least make it a jobs program, and be sure to build in feedback bonuses for small staff and also for successful placement, and bigger bonuses for better paying placement. (so the best paid placement staff will be those working with the fewest staff placing people not just in jobs, but the better paying jobs....).... and don't forget feedback pay for jobs that last....

#35 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-05-10 06:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

The problem with redistribution is that the wealth will ALWAYS, without exception, tend to accumulate more with the 'distributers' than with anyone else.

---------

That is because the system is designed that way. i.e. the corporate person.

It doesn't have to be.

Nor are jobs going to help one bit.

The oil is running out.

The capitalist scam is over folks.

Deal with it.

#36 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-10 07:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

Oil is irrelevant to capitalism being the best overall wealth generation engine.

Which is not to say that oil does not help with generating wealth, it certainly does help, and vastly so.

But with oil, or without oil, the best wealth generating engine for the most people is capitalism.

#37 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-05-10 07:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

Oh do you not know what you are talking about.

Oil is the only reason that the capitalist lie has continued since ww1.

Five Fundamental Errors.

#1. A fundamentally incorrect "method": the economist uses "correlation" and "post hoc, ergo propter hoc" (after-the-fact) reasoning, rather than the "scientific method" and biological theories of behavior:

#2. A fundamentally inverted world view: the economist sees the environment as a subsystem of the economy, rather than the other way around. In other words, economists are trained to believe that natural resources come from "markets" rather than the "environment". The historical analogy is Johann Kepler and Tycho Brahe watching the dawn together. Kepler sees the sun come into view as the earth turns; Brahe sees the sun begin its daily journey around a static earth.

#3. A fundamentally incorrect view of "money": the economist sees "money" as nothing more than a medium of exchange, rather than as social power -- or "political power"

#4. A fundamentally incorrect view of his raison d'être: the economist sees "homo economicus" as a "Bayesian utility maximizer", rather than "homo sapiens" as a "primate"

#5. A fundamentally incorrect view of economic élan vital: the economist sees economic activity as a function of infinite "money creation", rather than a function of finite "energy stocks" and finite "energy flows".

Capitalism is doa without cheap oil.

End of story.

#38 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-10 08:34 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#38

Plagiarists, lol.

dieoff.com

End of story.

#39 | Posted by Corky at 2014-05-10 11:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

#25 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-09 10:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks diablo, I now see what the pope meant by legitimate redistribution, i.e. we chose of our own free will to help others if we have been blessed with abundance, as Jesus preached.

#40 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-10 12:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Capitalism is doa without cheap oil. - Shawn

Not at all. A true, free market system, with a free and liberated populace, will always find a solution to a socio-economic problem.

Why you might ask? Because these systems taps into and nurtures an infinitely creative source; the human mind.

Apparently you have not discovered that, or else you would not so blatantly plagiarize another author, but would instead reformulate their ideas into your own words.

#41 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-10 12:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Plagiarists, lol.

dieoff.com

End of story."

The article was written by James Hanson. Do you have a substantive rebutal, or just whining about the source?

#42 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-05-10 12:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

You whining about non-substantive posts?

hahahahaha!!

I pointed out that pedantic poster's plagiarism, as I said.

#43 | Posted by Corky at 2014-05-10 01:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I pointed out that pedantic poster's plagiarism, as I said."

The fact that he didn't post a link to Jay Hanson's article is irrelevant. Either you have a rebuttal to the 5 points he posted, or you don't.

#44 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-05-10 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Imagine a leftist redistributing intellectual gifts....it might call for a Harvard professor to give a recommendation for graduate studies to a Mormon rather than an atheist, Unitarian or leftist. The 1% of those people can not be questioned.

#33 | POSTED BY DIABLO

I want to tell you one more thing I know about the "Leftist"...

#45 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-10 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

-Irrelevant.

Yes, I believe you are. Redundant, also.

Plagiarism, however, is relevant.

#46 | Posted by Corky at 2014-05-10 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

#47

What? Are you the DR Nanny telling people what they can refer to in their posts?

If every post had to be to the substance of another post, 3/4's of yours wouldn't make it.

#48 | Posted by Corky at 2014-05-10 01:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

More ad hominem in lieu of a substantive retort to Jay Hanson's article. Pathetic.

#49 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-05-10 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

The article was written by James Hanson. Do you have a substantive rebutal, or just whining about the source?

#42 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-05-10 12:55 PM | Reply | Flag

Why would you expect a rebuttal of something that long and convoluted, on blog site?

Here is the best I can do

1) He is correct about the basics of the scientific method. Which means MMGW is at best a pseudo-science because it has FAILED, AND FAILED miserably, to quantitatively predict future climate or weather events, but yet they never change there theory.

2) The man is just rambling on about economists, using analogies and selectively picking out texts from other authors that fit his beliefs.

3) The Fossil fuel economy will end someday, and when the resource becomes scarce, human will rise to the occasion and replace it with something else (we are already starting to do that). Necessity is the mother of invention.

4) Finally, his problem and yours, and many people as well, is failure to see that although the earth has finite, but very large resource base, it is but a nest; a temporary home. The local solar system has, for out practical purposes, infinite resources, out there waiting to taken, waiting for us to use. It will be difficult at first, it will take time, it will be risky, but it can be done. If we have but the will.

So let Mr. Hanson, Shawn, and yourself sit around and whine about problems all the while never presenting a solution. The rest of us will do the hard lifting for you, and attempt to propel humans into the vast unknown universe where we belong.

#50 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-10 03:13 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Oil is irrelevant to capitalism being the best overall wealth generation engine.

Which is not to say that oil does not help with generating wealth, it certainly does help, and vastly so.

But with oil, or without oil, the best wealth generating engine for the most people is capitalism.

#37 | Posted by USAF242

Any civilazation required fuel for it's engines of production. It doesn't matter what that fuel is. Without it most people on this planet would freeze in the dark. The ones left would end up throwing sticks and rocks at each other for the scraps they accumulated.

#52 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-10 04:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

I didn't post a link to the site because I've done it a few times already. They already know where it comes from nullifidian, and are just making noise because they have no real answer; which is why I have them all killfiled.

There is no point in debating a person whos function here to is to make a mess on the floor, point to it, and say, "Lookie what I made!"

#53 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-10 06:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

"#50 | Posted by danv

I give you credit for actually providing a retort, rather than whining about the source. You're wrong, but an A for effort.

#54 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-05-10 06:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

#54 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-05-10 06:14 PM | Reply | Flag

Agree to disagree; in civilized manner. Have a good weekend

#55 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-10 06:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

and are just making noise because they have no real answer; which is why I have them all killfiled.- Shawn

Ha, coming from you that is funny, you create more noise than anyone. Yet kill file people because they disagree with your opinions, that shows weakness of character and argument, as well as closed mindedness towards others opinions. For any human to think they have complete undertsanding of any issue is hubris at its worse.(that is assuming that to kill file someone is have there comments remain hidden)

You should take a lesson from nullfidian, he isn't afraid to confront people who disagree with him, nor view the opinions of others. And because of that, he has at least changed my opinion on a few things.

This is a news and blog site, this isn't a forum to debate someone's long and intricate set of economic beliefs, such as Mr. Hanson has presented.

#56 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-10 06:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

If we could just confiscate the money of all those rich lefties in hollywood, etc. who use tax shelters and hide their wealth and redistribute it to the rest of us then maybe their would be no money left to fund democrat candidates who run for office.

Yes I am liking redistribution more every day.

#57 | Posted by mcmlcxx at 2014-05-10 08:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Yes I am liking redistribution more every day."

Next week examine your paycheck and consider what you might have done with your money before the theft.

#59 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-12 12:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

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