Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, May 05, 2014

Jan Fleischhauer, Spiegel: In order to understand Vladimir Putin, you have to listen to him. You have to read what he wants. More importantly, though, you have to see what it is that he is seeking to prevent. ... The central theme of all his speeches is the fear of encirclement -- the threat represented by powers that want to keep the Russian people down because they fear its inner strength. "They are constantly trying to sweep us into a corner because we have an independent position, because we maintain it and because we call things like they are and do not engage in hypocrisy," he said in a March 18 speech before the Duma.

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"It seems to me that the Russian person or, on a broader scale, a person of the Russian world, primarily thinks about his or her highest moral designation, some highest moral truths," he said in the interview. In contrast to this is a West that is fixated on personal success and prosperity or, as Putin states, the "inner self." In the view of its president, the battle Russia is waging is ideological in nature. It is a fight against the superficiality of materialism, against the decline in values, against the feminization and effeminacy of society ...

"Death is horrible, isn't it?" Putin asked viewers at the end of his television appearance. "But no, it appears it may be beautiful if it serves the people: Death for one's friends, one's people or for the homeland, to use the modern word." That's as fascist as it gets.

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It's amazing how people will tell you what they intend, and yet we think a reset button will fix everything.

#1 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-05-05 11:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

Maybe 'post-fascist' is incorrect. He seems pretty fascist to me.
On the other hand, I see little difference between fascism and communism in the first place.

#2 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-05-05 12:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Conservatives Harbor an Odd Admiration for Vladimir Putin"
articles.latimes.com

Another example of the right's authoritarian personality disorder.

#3 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-05-05 02:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

The murder of at least 38 people in the city of Odessa in the midst of Kiev's "anti-terrorist" offensive last Friday revealed the true face of the fascist regime that has seized power in Kiev – and the Western media is doing everything it can to cover up the truth.

The USA Today headline read: "Fire Kills 31 in Odessa." But did the fire kill them – or was it the people who set the fire? And let's go back to Howard Amos' tweets to find out exactly who is fighting on the front lines on the pro-Kiev side: why it's Right Sector! They're leading the crowd, just as they did on Friday.

Right Sector is the violent neo-Nazi group that served as the Kiev coup leaders' shock troops as they took over Ukraine's capital city and drove Yanukovich and his supporters out. Their Fuehrer, Dymtro Yorash, is a fascist ideologue who recently announced he was moving the group's headquarters to east Ukraine – the scene of recent fighting between pro-coup and pro-Russian factions.

Imagine if the roles had been reversed, with the pro-Russians outside the building and the pro-Kiev "activists" inside. John Kerry would be apoplectic with rage, threatening Russia with military force. Nicholas Kristof would be demanding the bombing of Moscow, and the neocons would be comparing it to China's Tiananmen Square massacre.

Instead, what we hear from these folks is … nothing. Silence. Evasion. Ambiguity. Anything but the truth.

Antiwar

#4 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2014-05-05 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Imagine if the roles had been reversed, with the pro-Russians outside the building and the pro-Kiev "activists" inside. "

You mean like the men in the two helicopters that the Russian seperatists shot down? To pretend that the Russian seperatists haven't been violent towards anyone who disagrees with them is ridiculous.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-05 03:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

The helicopters were military, not civilian, and were firing on the Russian separatists.

Big difference from a bunch of neo-Nazi fascists burning people alive.

#6 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2014-05-05 03:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Putin has right on his side in this dogfight. Anyone that knows the history of this region and the destabilization of the legitimately elected president of Ukraine by the U.S. knows full well what is happening. Those that have believed the propaganda by the western MSM that Putin wants to reinvigorate the USSR are totally dupes. Putin has watched NATO pushing closer to his borders over the last few years and he knows encirclement when he sees it. His response is totally rational while our warmongering continues. Years ago secretary of state Baker explicitly promised Gorbachev that if reunification of Germany occured, the west (and NATO) would not advance east one inch. Well, that promise was broken as was the ABM pact later by the west. The thug is the west; it's not Putin.

#7 | Posted by matsop at 2014-05-05 03:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Big difference from a bunch of neo-Nazi fascists burning people alive."

Those same people you claim started the fire were also entering the building to force out the seperatists so it doesn't add up that they would have started fires of buildings they were entering themselves. It looks to me like anarchy and there is violence going both ways. ARe you really going to try and pretend the seperatist thugs haven't already killed people who disagree with them, beaten severely others?

#8 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-05 03:30 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Putin has right on his side in this dogfight."

President Yanukovych had made an agreement to remain in the Presidency then he fled the country after all those people were murdered at the Maidan demonstrations only to pop up later in Russia. He then said we would welcome Putin's troops which he later has said he deeply regrets. Putin has no right to invade any other country no matter what is happening in that country, especially just to steal territory he wants. How any Americans can still be on Putin's side in all of this spells a deep hatred for Barrack Obama and little else.

#9 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-05 03:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

WE learned this past week that Ukraine is going to be conscripting young men between 18 and 25, seems Ukraine does not want to just knuckle under to the threats of Putin.

#10 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-05 03:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

lol, didn't george orwell state about 8o years ago that the word "fascist" was overused?
George Orwell: Waht is Fascism?
maybe he is still right after all these years, lol...

#11 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-05-05 03:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Putin has watched NATO pushing closer to his borders over the last few years and he knows encirclement when he sees it. His response is totally rational while our warmongering continues."

That's an interesting take. Personally I think that Putin is far more like Hitler than Stalin, if those two really were that different, looking for his own lebensraum. But it's also worth remembering that in the Balkan wars of the 1990s, the Russians were completely emasculated. They were unable to do anything to assist their former allies. It was NATO that determined the current shape of that region, even though much of it had been in the Russian sphere of influence for centuries.

#12 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-05-05 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The thing is, Russia is not being threatened by anyone nor would it ever be as long as it is a nuclear power. Putin wants his empire back and Ukraine is considered to be probably the most important part of that empire, even considered virtually Russian....to the Russians but not to the Ukrainians who wanted membership in the EU for a better economic future. That just doesn't play along with Putin's desires and thus he is attempting to destablize the nation and then take whatever he wants.

#13 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-05 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Putin has watched NATO pushing closer to his borders over the last few years and he knows encirclement when he sees it. His response is totally rational while our warmongering continues."

The whole reason for NATO's existence was to protect Western Europe from an armed attack by the Soviet Union.

If Russia wants NATO to go away Putin needs to assure his neighbors he has no interest in attacking them anymore.

Also ... In accordance with the North Atlantic Treaty a country has to WANT to become a member of NATO. NATO does not force anyone to join.

And ... Countries wishing to join have to meet certain requirements and complete a multi-step process involving political dialogue and military integration. (wiki)

It is not a given that one would even be accepted.

bottom line.... NATO can invite someone to join but no one is ever forced to join.

But,I have to say it is so much fun to watch the NeoCons distort themselves into a pretzel in order to defend their newest Best Friend Forever.

#14 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-05-05 04:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If Russia wants NATO to go away Putin needs to assure his neighbors he has no interest in attacking them anymore"

russia doesn't want nato to go away-- only to cease expanding into the slavic areas. ukraine is their red line. i think they take red lines a bit more seriously than our president.

what will occur if it does any further? some idiots in the west seem to think that is no big deal. the media? clueless, as usual. asleep at the wheel.

putin seems to recall the last russian leader to get the royal shaft up the backside when the west promised- "no nato expansion eastward".

it was back during german reunification back when i was just a wee babe pooping my pants 8 times a day-- and the leader in question was gorbachev. the west did not honor that agreement.

fortunately i was interested in post-cold war politics in college to listen a little. perhaps others will read up a little history themselves.

#15 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-05-05 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

The posters trying to justify the West's maneuvers without facts on their side are hilarious. They took apart Bush for listening to the Washington neocons but now they look the other way when these folks are pushing the agenda on Ukraine. It's hard for them to take an untenable position when you have Nuland's phone conversation and other facts in broad daylight. It's amazing these folks support the warmongering of the Washington neocons and the ultranationalists (neo-nazis) in Ukraine. The irony couldn't be any sweeter----might we say hypocritical.

#16 | Posted by matsop at 2014-05-05 05:58 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#15 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-05-05 04:52 PM | Reply

Nerf, you are correct. Putin has finally established his red line due to the ongoing provocation of the West. Here's a guy that has gone out of his way to engage the West and the West does their usual bidding from Wolfowitz's doctrine, the multi-nationals and bankers. Who was it that allowed the West to move material through Russia's territory into Afghanistan when Pakistan said NO? Who was it that is working with the West to attempt to negotiate and acquire a non-nuclear weapons agreement with Iran? Who was it that helped Obama save face in Syria when he established his red line?

#17 | Posted by matsop at 2014-05-05 06:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

fortunately i was interested in post-cold war politics in college to listen a little. perhaps others will read up a little history themselves.

#15 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-05-05 04:52 PM | Reply

Good for you. That must have been an interesting course. It seems some of the resident posters should shell out a few bucks to learn something instead of continuing to embarrass themselves.

#18 | Posted by matsop at 2014-05-05 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#12 | Posted by madbomber

I do agree. Far closer to Hitler. He is playing a lot of Hitler's cards as well.

Let me throw this out there, so NATO is pushing closer. So what? Why not join? It seems like it would be beneficial - Unless you have other ideas.

Why not join the EU? Is it because your economy is full of corruption you yourself have become fantastically rich off of? Is it because you don't want that to change? Is it because you have a defacto dictatorship and yearn for the Glory Days of the USSR?

Plenty of the former communist countries are absolutely full of corruptions but they are slowly weeding it out in order to join and get on the Euro. It is the price of joining the EU. I don't mean to say corruption still won't be around. Look at the US, we have plenty here. It just isn't so rampant throughout the system like places like Ukraine and Russia. It is a way of life there.

#19 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2014-05-05 06:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

There is a video on LL that shows people jumping from the engulfed building, only to be beat once the land. No first story jumps either, third fourth and higher. If we use Libya as a precedent (central government violently surpressing protests) we should be No Fly Zoning the entire Ukraine and targeting all those flying tanks, flying armored vehicles, flying checkpoints, flying bunkers involved in quashing the protests.

#20 | Posted by aescal at 2014-05-05 06:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't mean to say corruption still won't be around. Look at the US, we have plenty here. It just isn't so rampant throughout the system like places like Ukraine and Russia. It is a way of life there.

#19 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2014-05-05 06:14 PM | Reply

It's not a way of life here?---you got to be kidding me.

#21 | Posted by matsop at 2014-05-05 06:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Putin has successfully defied the dictates of the American empire(doing far less damage by the way), and thus everything about him and those around him must be demonized.

If Putin is a fascist then the American empire is beyond fascist. [...]

#22 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-05 08:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

When it comes to deciding what to do with gays, Russia's President Vladimir Putin has the lead on President Obama, in the eyes of the Pea-Party the Republican Party and the conservative lemmings-rubes in the USA

"In my opinion, Putin is right on these issues," conservative leader Franklin Graham wrote,. "he has taken a stand to protect his nation's children from the damaging effects of any gay and lesbian agenda"

#23 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-05-05 08:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

#22 | POSTED BY SHAWN

Loves him some Vlad.

#24 | Posted by Corky at 2014-05-05 09:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

"In my opinion, Putin is right on these issues," conservative leader Franklin Graham wrote,. "he has taken a stand to protect his nation's children from the damaging effects of any gay and lesbian agenda"

------

Augustus Caesar said the same thing when he passed 'family values' legislation. The Roman Empire still fell.

#25 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-05 11:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here's a guy that has gone out of his way to engage the West
#17 | Posted by matsop

Oh really. Unless you count poisoning people as going above and beyond when it comes to engagement, I'm not feeling it.

Who was it that allowed the West to move material through Russia's territory into Afghanistan when Pakistan said NO?

A guy who knows a good deal when he sees it. A guy who realizes a military dictatorship Pakistan is safer to him than a Islamist dictatorship Pakistan, so he finds common interests in battling Islamists. It's not his only battle with Islamists in his backyard.

Who was it that is working with the West to attempt to negotiate and acquire a non-nuclear weapons agreement with Iran?

A guy who doesn't relish the prospect of yet another country with nuclear weapons that can actually reach him.

I hope you're not attempting to cast Putin as altruistic because that's just insane.

#26 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-06 12:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

Nerf, you are correct. Putin has finally established his red line due to the ongoing provocation of the West. Here's a guy that has gone out of his way to engage the West and the West does their usual bidding from Wolfowitz's doctrine, the multi-nationals and bankers. Who was it that allowed the West to move material through Russia's territory into Afghanistan when Pakistan said NO? Who was it that is working with the West to attempt to negotiate and acquire a non-nuclear weapons agreement with Iran? Who was it that helped Obama save face in Syria when he established his red line?

--------

Yup. The American empire has always behaved as if other nations don't exist. Try reading some declassified policy documents some time if you haven't. They read like an emperor telling the world what to do or else. Kids who behave this like on a school yard are in jail or dead by their 10 year high school reunion.

#27 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-06 07:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

The difference between the West and Russia is like he difference between the two main political parties in this country. They're both corrupt and have plenty of hypocrisy/shame you can point to, but at different points in history one party's behavior is clearly worse than the other, until the other party decides to outdo them. If Putin was merely occupying Crimea temporarily for security reasons and being subversive in the rest of Ukraine he could argue they were no worse than the West, but he completely blew his credibility when he annexed the region, which makes people waving Russian flags in other parts of Ukraine look like a prelude to more of the same. That's not "western propaganda". That's how Putin's actions actually look to the rest of the world.

#28 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-05-06 08:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

"They are constantly trying to sweep us into a corner because we have an independent position, because we maintain it and because we call things like they are and do not engage in hypocrisy,"

Reminds me of some hypersensitive Usenet posters on the internet who would be obnoxious and disruptive in every thread, and anybody who called them out on it was either a hypocrite or a "dupe" of the hypocrites. They saw absolutely nothing wrong with their behavior and thought it was totally justified because of the way they perceived other people acting.

#29 | Posted by sentinel at 2014-05-06 08:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

this might not be happening if NATO would just shut down, America should never enter into long-term military alliances, it make sus look imperialistic.

#30 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-06 06:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

this might not be happening if NATO would just shut down, America should never enter into long-term military alliances, it make sus look imperialistic.

#31 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-06 06:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

There are a lot of definitions of fascism out there, many motivated by an effort to smear political opponents as closet Nazis.

A few aspects common to fascism:
--It seems to be at least mildly authoritarian (and in classic cases, severely authoritarian).
--It is arguably socialist (but not communist) as private property, to include major industry, banks, etc, are under government control to at least some degree. The description of this relationship that 'feels' most accurate to me is that in fascism, "Government and the private sector are 'in bed' with each other".
--It always has a public social welfare 'face', which is usually believed by practitioners to at least some degree. Usually pretty arguable on how well the belief is practiced.
--Usually seems to be nationalistic to some degree. NOT always hostile other nationalisms except when they compete on 'home' ground.

I cannot think of a single example that did not include all of the above.

I've never seen an example of fascism I'd call 'good', but not all are death camp building Nazis either.

#32 | Posted by USAF242 at 2014-05-07 12:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

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