Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Thursday, May 01, 2014

Conor Friedersdorg, a conservative blogger for The Atlantic, asks, "Is conservatism as we know it on the path to extinction? ... There's no future for the 'Mister, we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again' wing of the conservative movement. When the last American to have lived through the New Deal dies, I doubt any significant constituency will still dispute its legitimacy, nor do I think there's a future for the notion that it's illegitimate for the federal government to test prescription drugs or enact environmental rules. The aspect of anti-statism most inextricably tied to white supremacy -- the notion that it's inappropriate for the federal government to pass and enforce laws that protect the civil rights -- is thankfully going to die as well."

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Jonathan Chait answers yes: "I believe this because the virulent opposition to the welfare state we see here is almost completely unique among major conservative parties across the world. "In no other advanced country do leading figures of governing parties propose the denial of medical care to their citizens or take their ideological inspiration from crackpots like Ayn Rand. America's unique brand of ideological anti-statism is historically inseparable ... from the legacy of slavery. Whatever form America's polyglot majority ultimately takes, it is hard to see the basis for its attraction to an ideology sociologically rooted in white supremacy."

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I would say yes, but for different reasons. I believe their reliance on the socially ultra-conservative (the Christian Right) is going to evaporate in favor of more a more mainstream approach. Their fiscal stance will not. On the contrary, I expect that it is the Democratic Party that will eventually find their position unaffordable. They will be forced, unwillingly, to accept smaller government, less spending, greater state autonomy, etc...

In the end, I expect we will have a single major party: fiscally responsible, socially left-moderate...right where I'm sitting. On the fringe, where they should be, will be the communists, the socialists, the greenies, the moral majority, the neo-nazis, etc....

#1 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-04-29 12:07 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

As the working class is squeezed harder they will, in all liklihood, vote in increasing numbers for Democrats and will see the Republican party increasingly as the party of wealth and big business which it is and which it is even more so now than any previous time since Herbert Hoover's Presidency.

#2 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-29 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

moderate to what? Mustang is, almost unwittingly, a Libertarian Socialist. Welcome.

#3 | Posted by ichiro at 2014-04-29 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

As the working class is squeezed harder they will, in all liklihood, vote in increasing numbers for Democrats and will see the Republican party increasingly as the party of wealth and big business which it is and which it is even more so now than any previous time since Herbert Hoover's Presidency.

#3 | POSTED BY DANNI

The problem is that the Democratic Party no longer cares about the working class. Just like the GOP they are all about special interests. They take crony-capitalism to a level that would make the GOP blush. They are all about entitlements and classes. There's a reason why unions are pissed about ACA and are pissed about dithering on Keystone.

#4 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-04-29 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 2

"The problem is that the Democratic Party no longer cares about the working class."

Baloney. Who is trying to raise the minimum wage, who brought healthcare reform, who is in favor of workplace safety regs., the environment, etc. The Democrats have proposed many bills to create jobs or to bring jobs back from overseas, all opposed by the GOP. It is in the best interest of the Republican party to repeat over and over that both parties are the same when nothing could be further from the truth.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-29 12:48 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 5

"There's a reason why unions are pissed about ACA and are pissed about dithering on Keystone."

Yep, lack of knowledge about both. That is the reason and not all unions are opposed to ACA nor in favor of Keystone.

#6 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-29 12:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

#4 I prefer the description of a moderate libertarian: fiscally conservative, socially mainstream. When you use the term Libertarian Socialist, it can be misconstrued as someone who wants someone else to pay for their weed.

#7 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-04-29 12:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

not all unions are opposed to ACA nor in favor of Keystone.

The unions that are not in favor of Keystone wouldn't be supplying any workers for the project.

Any union that has negotiated a Cadillac plan has a problem with ACA. Any union that risks having their workers' hours reduced or jobs shed altogether to avoid an ACA mandate has a problem with ACA.

Who is trying to raise the minimum wage

This is a non-issue for the working class.

who brought healthcare reform

Which is deeply unpopular.

who is in favor of workplace safety regs

Pretty much everybody

the environment,

They've waged war on carbon-based fuels. They are attacking the coal industry which hurts blue collar workers. They are using the EPA to drive up all energy costs which hurt the poor and the working class the hardest.

If you were talking about soot and actual pollutants, that would be one thing. But that isn't what is being targeted. CO2, which life on this planet depends on, is what is being targeted, to the detriment of the poor and the working class.

#8 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-04-29 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"They are attacking the coal industry which hurts blue collar workers."

Fracking for natural gas is what is killing coal. Its economics.

"who brought healthcare reform
Which is deeply unpopular."

Was, it gets more popular every day now. Repeal is not favored and when you discuss the individual components they all poll very, very popular.

"Who is trying to raise the minimum wage
This is a non-issue for the working class."

Baloney, it is popular across the spectrum of workers because when you raise the minimum wage those wage earners earning more than minimum end up getting raises too, plus it increases demand for goods and services.

"The unions that are not in favor of Keystone wouldn't be supplying any workers for the project. "

Until they learn that it will create about 3,000 temporary jobs and less than 50 permanent jobs.

#9 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-29 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

There are very few conservatives in the US. Most people who claim to be one don't even know what the word means.

Social conservatives are not conservative. Trying to use the government hamfist to force your religious beliefs and other hangups on everyone else is not "conservative".

Neocons are also not conservatives. Speculative, high risk/low reward foreign policy is not "conservative".

Libertarians might come closest to being "conservative" but in order to be a true believer one has to be ignorant to the entirety of human history so its not a particularly useful ideology as it is. Most aren't true believers though, which is good.

#10 | Posted by Sully at 2014-04-29 01:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

Yes

#11 | Posted by SammyAZ_RI at 2014-04-29 05:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Baloney, it is popular across the spectrum of workers because when you raise the minimum wage those wage earners earning more than minimum end up getting raises too

That has never been my experience with min wage increases. Every time one happens I end up closer to working a min wage job, not the same distance with more money in my pocket.

Maybe it is true for those just barely over min wage but if you are making 150% of min wage or more raising it will do exactly squat for you.

#12 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-04-29 07:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

aha ha,....the 'ole conservatism' is dead routine...didn't carvile predict a 100 years or so of liberalism....in 1994 .....

yeah sure....JEFFJ.....great post earlier......Those are things that the left must do anything they can to hide, cover up and lie about...

#13 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-04-29 09:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Atlantic declares conservatism doomed?
I am shocked....mostly at it becoming a thread here. Dog bites man...

#14 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-04-30 02:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

Conservatism? I'd say that it doesn't exist anymore, not in the classic sense. We have a bunch of neocons now.

#15 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-04-30 11:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

GOP: Yes To $310 Billion For Business, No To $12 Million For At-Risk Kids

Republicans on a congressional tax-writing committee objected Tuesday to the cost of a bill that would spend $1 million a year to help keep foster kids out of the sex trade, and then voted for $310 billion in tax breaks for businesses.

Many Republicans on the House Ways and Means Committee backed the foster kids measure, but they removed a key provision that would have added $12 million to its 10-year cost and that was not paid for with budget cuts elsewhere.

The GOP lawmakers made no such objections to the $310 billion over 10 years that it would cost to make permanent six expired tax cuts that primarily benefit large corporations, including the so-called GE loophole. Lacking "pay-fors," the cost of those cuts would be added to the deficit.

Democrats said the moves showed where Republican priorities really lie.

The Huffington Post

Senate Republicans Block Minimum Wage Bill

The Huffington Post

#16 | Posted by Derek_Wildstar at 2014-04-30 10:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Democrats said the moves showed where Republican priorities really lie.
The Huffington Post
Senate Republicans Block Minimum Wage Bill
The Huffington Post"

The utter hypocrisy of that will go unanswered by the righties who post here.

#17 | Posted by danni at 2014-05-01 10:12 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I don't know about that............... but................. the pinko commies are alive and well.

#18 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-01 10:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

#5 | Posted by JeffJ

You are right on jeff

#19 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-01 10:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

"the pinko commies are alive and well."

Good to know you still regularly check under your bed.

#20 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-05-01 10:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

Until they learn that it will create about 3,000 temporary jobs and less than 50 permanent jobs.

#10 | Posted by danni

Your math really sucks dan. You ain't ever close.

What is the estimated cost of the pipeline? About half of that cost is construction labor.

There is NO way that only 50 perm jobs will be created.

Pipe line operation
Pipeline maintenence
Pilots to fly the pipeline to check for leaks
Added refinery workers
Added workers to handle refined products

#21 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-01 10:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

Until they learn that it will create about 3,000 temporary jobs and less than 50 permanent jobs.

#10 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2014-04-29 01:11 PM | FLAG:

All construction jobs are temporary. Once you finish you move on to the next project. All of the construction jobs creating the Hoover Dam were temporary. Would you be arguing against those too because the jobs are temp?

Plenty of valid talking points for debate about Keystone XL. This isn't one of them.

#22 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-01 10:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

Pipe line operation
Pipeline maintenence
Pilots to fly the pipeline to check for leaks
Added refinery workers
Added workers to handle refined products

To which, add:

HAZMAT equipment
HAZMAT suits
HAZMAT crews

#23 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-05-01 10:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

We need both Conservatives and Liberals. One of the most dangerous features of capitalism is the boom/bust cycle. This destroys many a small business. It takes a Conservative leader to weather these cycles. Institutions as large as the US Government are not only less susceptible to these dangers, but fulfill other economic, educational, healthcare, communicative, transport and trade functions, for which a Liberal perspective gets superior results.

#24 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-05-01 10:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

The utter hypocrisy of that will go unanswered by the righties who post here.

#18 | POSTED BY DANNI

What's hypocritical about blocking a minimum wage hike?

It was a smart thing to do IMO.

#25 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-01 10:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Is Conservatism As We Know It Doomed?"

If by "conservatism" one means the likes of Rafi Cruz, Jim DeMint, the tea suckers, etc. - as opposed to classical conservatism, e.g., Edmund Burke - no, probably not. As historian Richard Hofstadter observed half a century ago, the roots of the paranoid style in American politics run deep.

#26 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-05-01 11:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

Good to know you still regularly check under your bed.

#21 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

There might be one in your mama's basement. Better take a look dok.

#27 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-01 11:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

HAZMAT equipment
HAZMAT suits
HAZMAT crews

#24 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Of course dok..................... none of that is needed when the oil noves by truck or rail.

The oil will go to market no matter how or where.

#28 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-01 11:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

Yo mama!

#29 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-05-01 11:15 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"none of that is needed when the oil noves by truck or rail."

Absolutely. The very idea of pipes bursting, trucks crashing, or trains going off the rails is simply ridiculous. Couldn't happen. Nope. Not here. Not ever.

#30 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-05-01 11:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

sometimes you people are so funny...too bad it's not humorous.

#31 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-05-01 11:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

The oil will go to market no matter how or where.
#29 | Posted by Sniper

And that's exactly the problem. If you're a rancher whose land has been seized for a pipeline, or flooded with gunk by a pipeline, you probably think rail transportation is a good idea. If you live in a town wiped out by a trainload of oil you probably think the pipe is a good idea. Both are fighting the wrong battle. That tar needs to stay in the ground. And yes, I know that's probably not going to happen.

#32 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2014-05-01 11:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

The country is doomed. The great experiment is over. The left won and now those who still believe in the American dream are essentially defending the Alamo. 56 million lives squashed by the left and DANNI thinks the right has no compassion.

There will always be a small percentage who through no fault of their own require assistance from the public trust. This is small - say 10% of our 300 million (not those on disability as that number is full of cheaters). The other 37% are lazy and should be kicked to the curb.

You will be surprised how fast people look for work if the government teat dries up. And then we would all be better - because the left wants people employed and paying taxes and not on the dole - right corkster?

#33 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2014-05-01 01:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

#34

Sounds like an ad for Victorian-era smelling salts.

#34 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-05-01 01:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Republicans on a congressional tax-writing committee objected Tuesday to the cost of a bill that would spend $1 million a year to help keep foster kids out of the sex trade, and then voted for $310 billion in tax breaks for businesses."

As if tax breaks are the same as spending money. You liberals just don't know math or how to grease the economy. Hey that $900 BILLION plus in stimulus really was well spent. Good grief.

#35 | Posted by sames1 at 2014-05-01 01:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lesson of the day... you can walk into a hospital that takes insurance from an aca provider... but have walked into a place where none of the doctors with practices in that hospital take that insurance. 10 day delay getting services rescheduled elsewhere. Well that sucked.

#36 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-05-01 01:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sounds like an ad for Victorian-era smelling salts.

#35 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Could you try making some sense just once in your life? If you have a problem with his post, let's hear your argument. If not, STFU.

#37 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-05-01 02:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Conservatism as we know it is little more than Ayn Rand cheerleading and bashing the poor, in Jesus' name.

#38 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-01 02:43 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

For example, the oft-repeated mantra of "fiscal conservatism."

The GOP demonstrates their business savvy in this arena by requiring the USPS to fund pensions for workers that aren't even born yet.

#39 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-01 02:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you have a problem with his post, let's hear your argument. If not, STFU.
#38 | Posted by Sniper

Sounds like you're going to need more than a dose of Victorian-era smelling salts. (Sorry, but they're not available at the Victoria's Secret store in Biltmore Fashion Park.) Would a straightjacket do?

But I can see where the rant I responded to with well-deserved ridicule would have a strong appeal for you.

#40 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-05-01 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

#38

You really do sound out of sorts today. Whuzamattah, kid? Afraid you'll get tossed out of some fake cowboy bar in Prescott during the Fourth of July parade?

#41 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-05-01 02:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Afraid you'll get tossed out of some fake cowboy bar in Prescott during the Fourth of July parade?

My parents used to live there. An OK place to visit, not a fun place to stay. Bigotry is not veiled by any means there.

#42 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-05-01 03:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

#43

Perhaps as crazy in its way as Sedona is in its way.

#43 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-05-01 03:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

#40 - Snoopy

US Postal Service workers have a retiree health care benefit in addition to their pension. Before Congress passed the Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act of 2006, the USPS operated under a pay-as-you-go model for retiree health care funding. The new law requires the Postal Service to pre-fund its benefit obligations.
"The idea is that enough money is saved over the course of a career that the benefit is fully paid for by the time the worker retires.
Thanks to these prefunding payments, the Postal Service has greatly reduced its unfunded obligations for retiree health benefits. At the end of fiscal year 2010, these obligations were under $49 billion – a substantial sum, but much more manageable. If the Postal Service continues making its prefunding payments, its unfunded obligations for retiree health benefits will be around $33 billion by the end of the decade. And the postal service will be on course to pay these benefits over time," a Congressional insider explained.
But this pre-funding has become a lightning rod of controversy.
Members of the postal workers union say the pre-funding requirement has created a fiscal mess. Some people have even claimed that law has the effect of requiring the postal service to fund retirement obligations for people who are not yet employed by the USPS--potential future employees.
No one ever intended the law to work that way. And, in fact, it doesn't. Although accounting rules require the postal service to calculate future liabilities, including those for projected future employees, the law only requires pre-funding of obligations to actual current and past employees.

www.cnbc.com
POSTED BY JEFFJ AT 2014-05-01 11:38 AM

#44 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-01 03:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Conservatism never existed. It has always been a code word for fascist; and that is alive and quite well.

#45 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-05-01 04:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

JeffJ, better info here
Postal Regulatory Commission
en.wikipedia.org

The PAEA stipulates that the USPS is to make payments of $5.4 - $5.8 billion into the Postal Service Retiree Health Benefits Fund, each year, from 2007 to 2016 in order to prefund 50 years of estimated costs. This requirement also explicitly stated that the USPS was to stop using its savings to reduce postal debt

Does this sound like a sensible way to run a private sector business?
No, it's a deliberate attempt by the GOP to sabotage USPS finances, then turn around and claim "Look, the government can't run a business."

#46 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-01 05:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is Conservatism As We Know It Doomed?

We sure can hope so. Goodbye Rush! Goodbye Cruz! Probably not much chance though. There's too much money behind it. What has come to be called conservatism is just a smoke screen used by the 1%.

#47 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2014-05-01 05:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yup, conservatism is dead, sad to say. The republicans sold out. The collectivist, through hollywood, the media, and public education have convinced everyone the government is your friend, instead of realizing it is a necessary evil.

#48 | Posted by danv at 2014-05-01 06:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Conservatism will live but not this mad mix of Mellonism. Randism, neo-confederadism, and old school theocracy.

#49 | Posted by Tor at 2014-05-01 09:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Does this sound like a sensible way to run a private sector business?
No, it's a deliberate attempt by the GOP to sabotage USPS finances, then turn around and claim "Look, the government can't run a business."
#47 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

Well, perhaps they should reduce the pension obligations then. Outside of that, pensions need to be funded as they are part of the USPS business model - they are a legitimate business expense.

#50 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-01 09:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh Mighty and Benevolent Government!!! If raising the minimum wage is the answer than let's just raise the minimum wage to $100/hr. Scientifically, to prove that something is true the extremes must be true. But the article is about "conservatism", not the GOP. They are not the same thing.

#51 | Posted by korvhaal at 2014-05-01 10:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, perhaps they should reduce the pension obligations then. Outside of that, pensions need to be funded as they are part of the USPS business model - they are a legitimate business expense.
#51 | Posted by JeffJ

"They" would only be able to do that if a bill originating in the GOP House instructed them to do so. But apparently voting to repeal Obamacare fifty times is more important than running a sound business to Republicans.

And "funded" is not the same as "pre-funded." Please, continue to share your conservative business savvy in your future responses. I'm learning a whole lot about how to run a business... right into the ground.

#52 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-05-01 11:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

"They" would only be able to do that if a bill originating in the GOP House instructed them to do so. But apparently voting to repeal Obamacare fifty times is more important than running a sound business to Republicans.

Right. Republicans always play politics and the Democrats are always representing the people.

And "funded" is not the same as "pre-funded." Please, continue to share your conservative business savvy in your future responses. I'm learning a whole lot about how to run a business... right into the ground.

#53 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

And pre-funded is not the same thing as pre-calculated.

#53 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-01 11:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

I have to agree that the Conservative party is getting weaker and moving more left.
The tipping point happened when we got to the place where the small hardworking successful businessman was reviled.
My grandparents were proud to work 16 hrs a day running a small pizzeria and us kids looked up to them as a great example of what hard honest work can accomplish.....Never imagining the day would come where this would be considered a negative life style.

#54 | Posted by phesterOBoyle at 2014-05-02 02:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

They are being required to "pre-fund" retirement benefits for workers who haven't even been born yet in a 10-year period. No other government function or private business has ever, or would ever do that. Why? Because it's stupid. It is only intended to break the Post Office, so their mission can be handed over yo UPS and FedEx so some rich folks can make a profit off of a function that is defined as part of the government in the Constitution. Oh, and they also are unionized and support Democrats (those are their real sins).

#55 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-05-02 10:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

They are being required to "pre-fund" retirement benefits for workers who haven't even been born yet in a 10-year period.

No, they are not.

Scroll up, I already dispelled that myth.

#56 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-02 10:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

You made an assertion. That's not the same thing as "dispelling". What's your source?

#57 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-05-02 10:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Remember how during the 2008 and 2012 GOP primaries, Romney reinvented himself at every opportunity even as he insisted he'd been the same guy all along? That was the cognitive dissonance in conservatism personified."

It's the hypocrisy, stupid.

#58 | Posted by e1g1 at 2014-05-02 01:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rs are Corporatists, not conservatives. Their ear is tilted only towards the investor class instead of holistically towards all responsible hard working average Americans. The leadership uses the poor as their whipping post.

Ds promote and import poverty with their endless immigration intended to add votes. They then dole out handouts and policies that will only entrench the poor. A free labor market without the influence of open borders and illegal immigration, has no need for a minimum wage. The Ds purposely created labor surpluses so that they could use the min wage for political advantage.

They both push policies intended to harm us as a nation for self serving political purposes.

#59 | Posted by Robson at 2014-05-02 03:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

#58 Whodoman

See #45

#60 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-02 03:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Conservatism isn't dead in America.

It's just dead in the Republican Party.

#61 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-05-02 04:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Conservatism isn't dead in America.
It's just dead in the Republican Party.
#62 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Sad but true.

#62 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-05-02 07:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

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