Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, April 27, 2014

TechDirt: As we've reported, Russia has been steadily trying to bring the Internet under control with ever-more stringent measures. After tackling general Web sites through powers that allow them to be blocked more easily, it now seems to be the turn of the bloggers, as this report from the ITAR-TASS News Agency on a recently-approved law explains: "Bloggers will be obliged to declare their family name and initials and e-mail address. Those authors whose personal website or page in social networks has 3,000 visitors or more a day must have themselves registered on a special list and abide by restrictions applicable to the mass media."

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

and soon they'll be a stakeholder in ICANN.

#1 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-04-27 09:09 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

HuffPost only wants you if you have a facebook account

#2 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-04-27 09:19 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Edward Snowden reacts.

#3 | Posted by censored at 2014-04-27 10:41 AM | Reply | Flag:

Now all Russia needs is a gulag construction program to return to the good old days.
I see the Russian press is calling the situation in Ukraine a 'civil war'. That sets the stage for them to go in as 'peacemakers', no doubt.
It reminds me of Stalin saying he had to invade Finland to save them from the Nazis.

#4 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-04-27 10:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

It's our CIA that is forcing Russia to regulate bloggers.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:55 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

I assume Edward Snowden was issued Blogger Permit #1?

#6 | Posted by Zed at 2014-04-27 11:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

Coming to merica soon. They don't really need it; as they already have files on everyone, but just because they can.

Freeeeeedooooom!!!

#7 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-04-27 11:36 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Funny how some people have to stretch to make America out to be as bad as Russia in civil and human rights.

OK, more pathetic than funny.

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2014-04-27 11:42 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

they already have files on everyone

#7 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-04-27 11:36 AM | Reply | Flag

They do nothing but fall asleep reading yours.

#9 | Posted by Zed at 2014-04-27 12:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

more pathetic than funny.

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2014-04-27

Some people earn their Masters in Pathetic.

#10 | Posted by Zed at 2014-04-27 12:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Its relative to a weak nation's geographic position to its oppressor. Thus South of our Border they look on the USA, as Poland, the Baltic States, Ukraine mistrust and fear Russia.

#11 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-04-27 12:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, maybe Russia hasn't forgotten who started WW1... "In fact, some Zionist leaders bragged, and British officials, rightly or wrongly, believed that Zionists had played a significant role in the U.S. decision to enter World War I." www.veteransnewsnow.com

#12 | Posted by Bani at 2014-04-27 12:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, maybe Russia hasn't forgotten who started WW1...
#12 | Posted by Bani at 2014-04-27 12:08 PM |

Bloggers? I didn't know they even parents had basements back then for their kids to blog from.

#13 | Posted by censored at 2014-04-27 12:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

lol...Yes, the Russia experience as a former Zionist puppet has not been forgotten, I'm sure:-)

#14 | Posted by Bani at 2014-04-27 12:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Question: Would you rather be allowed access to the internet knowing the government is monitoring you, OR would you rather use the internet for all sorts of business and only later, after the fact, learn that the government has been secretly and illegally monitoring all your activity?

#15 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-04-27 01:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

www.quotesdaddy.com

#16 | Posted by Bani at 2014-04-27 02:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

I would say Russia is a lot more transparent then our government as it relates to the internet. They may want bloggers to register just as they do other organizations internally that are receiving dollars externally----after all, the U.S. for years have had internal organizations register that receive external monies. NGOs from the U.S. have in all probability been operating in Russia for years in an attempt to destabilize Russia politically. I guess what's fair for the goose is fair for the gander.

#17 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Funny how some people have to stretch to make America out to be as bad as Russia in civil and human rights.

OK, more pathetic than funny.

#8 | Posted by Corky

Funny how other people defend america's warrantless surveillance (and lying to the public about it) just because they like the president.

The US doesn't need to register bloggers because it already knows who they are and where they live.

#18 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-04-27 05:07 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The US doesn't need to register bloggers because it already knows who they are and where they live.

#18 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014

Some of you are being a mite silly. Putin knows who his bloggers are, of course. What he's doing here is emphasizing his control over them.

To answer a question put above: Between the USA and Russia, I prefer to live here.

Time now for the questioner to place himself on the record.

#19 | Posted by Zed at 2014-04-27 05:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

To answer a question put above: Between the USA and Russia, I prefer to live here.

#19 | Posted by Zed

Well duh.

If your standard for america is - is it better than russia? That's a really low bar.

We brag about being a beacon of freedom and human rights and justice and due process. But those are now just slogans without meaning because of the war on terror.

The question isn't - are we better than russia?
The question is - are we who we say we are?

And the answer is NO.

#20 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-04-27 05:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

On the contrary. I think zed would do quite well in maos china. No pesky rules getting in the way of the blackshirts. Someone contradicts him = off to jail.

So would Zed, Corky, BradfordWinston, DavetheWave, salb4, soheifox, boaz, jestgettinalong, JeffJ, Sully, 101Chairborne, danv, Sniper, DixvilleNotch, REDIAL, MUSTANG, patron, afkabl2, PinchALoaf, and a few more here.

#21 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-04-27 09:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Brownshirts in chinas case. Pardon my colorblindness.

#22 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-04-27 09:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"We brag about being a beacon of freedom and human rights and justice and due process. But those are now just slogans without meaning because of the war on terror."

What intrusions into our privacy would you have authorized, were you in authority, if you could have prevented 9-11? I think you need to realize that those who bear the responsibility of preventing such a tragedy happening again are going stretch the boundaries of what is permissible because they don't want to allow another attack that they might have prevented. That's why we do need more oversight but I don't really thing we want to tie their hands, eyes and ears too tightly either.

#23 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 09:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

The truth is that 9-11 didn't really change that much. The fascism of the American empire is just now more overt. They aren't doing much more than going through the motions of trying to cover it up now. Soon they will stop doing even that.

#24 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-04-27 09:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Hard Rain"

"www.azlyrics.com"

#25 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 09:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The truth is that 9-11 didn't really change that much."

Riiight!!

#26 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 09:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

"We brag about being a beacon of freedom and human rights and justice and due process. But those are now just slogans without meaning because of the war on terror."

What intrusions into our privacy would you have authorized, were you in authority, if you could have prevented 9-11? I think you need to realize that those who bear the responsibility of preventing such a tragedy happening again are going stretch the boundaries of what is permissible because they don't want to allow another attack that they might have prevented. That's why we do need more oversight but I don't really thing we want to tie their hands, eyes and ears too tightly either.

#23 | Posted by danni

Sure. Any time someone opposes the war on terror you can just say "9/11." Right? That's the one lesson we learned from bush and cheney. Surprised to see you using the same technique.

The fact is you're more likely to get hit by lightning than a terrorist attack. Changing our country's core principles to fight terror is idiotic overkill - done to increase the wealth and power of the wealthy and powerful.

#27 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-04-27 10:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Then they came for the bloggers, and I said nothing...

#28 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-04-27 10:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

...Cuz I know Vlad and Eddie will look out for me.

#29 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-04-27 10:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Sure. Any time someone opposes the war on terror you can just say "9/11." Right? That's the one lesson we learned from bush and cheney. Surprised to see you using the same technique."

NO, that is not what we learned from Bush & Cheney, we learned from them that bad people will try to use 9-11 as an excuse to carry out invasions of countries that had nothing to do with 9-11 for their own reasons. That they would use 9-11 to justify their own nefarious purposes doesn't mean that there aren't still terrorists in the world whose only desire is to create a tragedy as big as 9-11 or even much larger out there. IT is simply naive to pretend otherwise. Truthfully, America has done things in certain parts of the world which weren't right and some of these terrorists probably do feel quite justified in their hatred for us but that does not mean we need to stop being as vigilant as possible in our efforts to stop them.

#30 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

The truth is that some people's pants will never dry out from the Bush/Cheney years, and they will always over-react when a pol or a Fed agency overreaches, and thereby make it even harder to reign them in.

Thanks for that. Karl.

#31 | Posted by Corky at 2014-04-27 10:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

The question isn't - are we better than russia?
The question is - are we who we say we are?

And the answer is NO.

#20 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-04-27 05:50 PM | Reply |

No, we aren't what we say we are. We don't believe in freedom and liberty like we espouse and then undermine countries that duly elect people we don't approve of. When was the last time any democracy was created by our meddling in other country's affairs. Oh, I forgot; Ukraine has a democracy and we destabilized their duly elected president by funneling 5 billion into the country through our NGOs and the CIA.We then placed our puppet in place. We are no longer respected in the world with the bankers and neocons doing tremendous damage through actions that are deplorable. We lie on a consistent basis and spread propaganda liberally through our controlled media. The only place you get the other side of the coin is through the alternative media.

#32 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 10:19 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Russia Orders Bloggers to Register"

God Bless America.

#33 | Posted by Tor at 2014-04-27 10:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh; let's not forget Egypt----a duly elected government and we secretly funnel money to the military while feigning horror when the military moved against the government.

#34 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 10:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Oh, I forgot; Ukraine has a democracy and we destabilized their duly elected president by funneling 5 billion into the country through our NGOs and the CIA."

Never mind that he stole billions from the country's treasury fleeing the country after ordering the slaughter of over 100 people on both sides of the protests in Kiev. Now, he says he is sorry for inviting the Russins into Crimea. He was a tool for PUting but now he has discovered Putin has not more need of his services so he is "sorry" he sold out the Ukrainian people. He says he wants to return to Ukraine but really he will never set foot there ever again.

#35 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ah, and then there is Libya. Who knows who the heck is running that government now. America has become a thug and other nations are realizing it. That's why you have the example of the formation of the BRICS. They're moving as fast as they can to divorce themselves from the American dollar. America will attempt to intimidate, bribe, and blackmail them; in other words do anything available to destroy them. I've never been less proud of this country as I am today.

#36 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 10:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Oh; let's not forget Egypt----a duly elected government and we secretly funnel money to the military while feigning horror when the military moved against the government."

I was perhaps the sole defender of democracy here when I said that Morsi should be overturned by ballots not bullets. He as duly elected and the opposition erred greatly by forcing him from office and the military took full advantage of that and it is doubtful that democracy will come to Egypt again any time soon.

#37 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Ah, and then there is Libya. Who knows who the heck is running that government now."

WE know it isn't Ghadafi and we know that the people of Libya will figure that out for themselves. WE prevented a massacre and that is something we should never apologize for and something most of the Libyan people are grateful for.

#38 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Never mind that he stole billions from the country's treasury fleeing the country after ordering the slaughter of over 100 people on both sides of the protests in Kiev. Now, he says he is sorry for inviting the Russins into Crimea. He was a tool for PUting but now he has discovered Putin has not more need of his services so he is "sorry" he sold out the Ukrainian people. He says he wants to return to Ukraine but really he will never set foot there ever again.

#35 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:25 PM | Reply

The only thing accurate about your post is that Yanukovych stole billions from the country's treasury. There is more proof that the ultranationalists were the ones that slaughtered the 100 people instead of yanukovych's police (who I might add did not carry weapons)----to incite the people further. And I would like a link about Yanukovych being a tool of Putin's. Also, the CIA paid protesters to protest and actually funneled protesters in from Germany and Moldova.

#39 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 10:35 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

WE prevented a massacre and that is something we should never apologize for and something most of the Libyan people are grateful for.

#38 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:29 PM | Reply |

More propaganda by the West to justify their action. I wonder when you're going to wake up and smell the coffee. Before long, you're going to tell me there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

#40 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 10:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Before long, you're going to tell me there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq."

I was among the protesters who protested the Iraq invasion, were you there? I was on Young Circle, in Hollywood, Florida as the war mongers drove by calling us names, calling us traitors.

#41 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

"There is more proof that the ultranationalists were the ones that slaughtered the 100 people instead of yanukovych's police"

Completely untrue, and if you think about it, you can see easily why that would not have helped their side at all. It is fairly well documented that it was Russians who did it at the direction of Yanokovych. He was losing power and if he did he was going to be prosecuted so he was desperate and ordered or allowed Putin's orders to be carried out and it was a huge mistake both for him and for Ukraine. He was and is a thug just like Putin. They are defending the oligarchy, why you can't see that is beyond my capacity to understand, it is so obvious.

#42 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

I was among the protesters who protested the Iraq invasion,

#41 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:40 PM | Reply

That's because you're a partisan. Now you turn your eyes away from the same neocon justification for destabilizing other countries through their lying justification which you've bit on hook, line and sinker. Unfortunately, it doesn't afford you much integrity for standing on Young Circle, in Hollywood, Florida.

#43 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 10:47 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

It is fairly well documented that it was Russians who did it at the direction of Yanokovych.

#42 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:45 PM | Reply

Show me documentation other then the usual American propaganda/lie machine.

#44 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 10:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

"That's because you're a partisan. "

No stupid. It was because I remembered Vietnam. Anyone who didn't get it that IRaq was just the same idiots doing the same things with our military just doesn't understand ANYTHING about American foreign policy and the forces that try to control it.

#45 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Libya:

We must remember that one of the initial reasons in rushing to impose a no-fly zone was to prevent Gaddafi from using his air force to bomb "his own people" -- a distinct phrasing that echoes what was tried and tested in the demonization of Saddam Hussein in Iraq. On February 21, when the first alarmist "warnings" about "genocide" were being made by the Libyan opposition, both Al Jazeera and the BBC claimed that Gaddafi had deployed his air force against protesters -- as the BBC "reported": "Witnesses say warplanes have fired on protesters in the city". Yet, on March 1, in a Pentagon press conference, when asked: "Do you see any evidence that he [Gaddafi] actually has fired on his own people from the air? There were reports of it, but do you have independent confirmation? If so, to what extent?" U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates replied, "We've seen the press reports, but we have no confirmation of that". Backing him up was Admiral Mullen: "That's correct. We've seen no confirmation whatsoever".

#46 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 10:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Show me documentation other then the usual American propaganda/lie machine."

It was posted right here on DR just recently, go find it yourself. But why bother, your beliefs are based on conspiracy theories where anyh crazy nonsense becomes your belief system.

#47 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Libya:

In fact, claims that Gaddafi also used helicopters against unarmed protesters are totally unfounded, a pure fabrication based on fake claims. This is important since it was Gaddafi's domination of Libyan air space that foreign interventionists wanted to nullify, and therefore myths of atrocities perpetrated from the air took on added value as providing an entry point for foreign military intervention that went far beyond any mandate to "protect civilians".

David Kirpatrick of The New York Times, as early as March 21 confirmed that, "the rebels feel no loyalty to the truth in shaping their propaganda, claiming nonexistent battlefield victories, asserting they were still fighting in a key city days after it fell to Qaddafi forces, and making vastly inflated claims of his barbaric behavior". The "vastly inflated claims" are what became part of the imperial folklore surrounding events in Libya, that suited Western intervention. Rarely did the Benghazi-based journalistic crowd question or contradict their hosts.

#48 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 10:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

"We must remember that one of the initial reasons in rushing to impose a no-fly zone was to prevent Gaddafi from using his air force to bomb "his own people" -- a distinct phrasing that echoes what was tried and tested in the demonization of Saddam Hussein in Iraq."

B.S. It was Ghadafi's son's own words; "rivers of blood" that motivated the assistance we gave to the people of Libya who were tired of being ruled by dictator Ghadafi. Don't start rewriting history so soon.

#49 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

"and therefore myths of atrocities"

Do some research and get back to us. Ridiculous. NOt laughable because idiots like you are really dangerous, someone might believe your propaganda.
I don't know who you are or what you are but you are not just a regular poster here, you have an evil agenda.

#50 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 11:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

It was posted right here on DR just recently, go find it yourself. But why bother, your beliefs are based on conspiracy theories where anyh crazy nonsense becomes your belief system.

#47 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 10:53 PM | Reply

Okay, we'll see how crazy my nonsense is----and you probably don't know this history either. Reagan made an agreement with Gorbachev that after the fall of the Soviet Union, no eastern nation would fall under the auspices of NATO. Well, we've seen the U.S. go back on that word. Then the U.S. pulled out of the ABM Treaty and parked ABMs in Poland and continued on their encroachment toward Russia. They tried their games in Georgia and Putin blocked them there. Now they've played a dangerous game in Ukraine and he legitimately has responded to protect himself from further encroachment manipulated by the neocons in Washington. Just a little history to have you understand Putin's paranoia and why he has finally said "enough" to the imperialistic behavior of Washington.

#51 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 11:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sure. Any time someone opposes the war on terror you can just say "9/11." Right? That's the one lesson we learned from bush and cheney. Surprised to see you using the same technique.

-----------

They used to just call you a communist homosexual. They just changed the inflections; same message.

#52 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-04-27 11:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

In Soviet Russia, government makes a blog post about you.

#53 | Posted by mariosanchez at 2014-04-27 11:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't know who you are or what you are but you are not just a regular poster here, you have an evil agenda.

#50 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 11:00 PM | Reply

My evil agenda is the truth----there's certain people that can't handle the truth. You give them facts and they still can't handle the truth.

#54 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 11:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Reagan made an agreement with Gorbachev that after the fall of the Soviet Union, no eastern nation would fall under the auspices of NATO. "

I'm quite aware of that but how does REagan gain the power to determine he future of a sovereign nation like Ukraine? Ukraine would never have wanted to join NATO if they didn't feel a threat from Russia and now we can see that threat was quite justified. In that same treaty Russia promised to never threaten the sovereign nation of Ukraine's territory, so now Russia takes Crimea and you think that NATO is the aggressor? yoU'RE clearly viewing this from Putin's point of view and Putin has proven over and over that he is a complete liar.

#55 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 11:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Libya:

"If we waited one more day," Barack Obama said in his March 28 address, "Benghazi, a city nearly the size of Charlotte, could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world". In a joint letter, Obama with UK Prime Minister David Cameron and French President Nicolas Sarkozy asserted: "By responding immediately, our countries halted the advance of Gaddafi's forces. The bloodbath that he had promised to inflict on the citizens of the besieged city of Benghazi has been prevented. Tens of thousands of lives have been protected". Not only did French jets bomb a retreating column, what we saw was a very short column that included trucks and ambulances, and that clearly could have neither destroyed nor occupied Benghazi.

#56 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 11:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

"My evil agenda is the truth----there's certain people that can't handle the truth."

I don't know who or what you are but you are NOT just an American with an opinion, that much I am quite sure of. Your views about this are so distorted as to be laughable except that real people I know could suffer because of people like you.

#57 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 11:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Libya:

Other than Gaddafi's "overblown rhetoric," which the U.S. was quick to dismiss when it suited its purposes, there is to date still no evidence furnished that shows Benghazi would have witnessed the loss of "tens of thousands" of lives as proclaimed by Obama, Cameron, and Sarkozy. This was best explained by Professor Alan J. Kuperman in "False pretense for war in Libya?":"The best evidence that Khadafy did not plan genocide in Benghazi is that he did not perpetrate it in the other cities he had recaptured either fully or partially -- including Zawiya, Misurata, and Ajdabiya, which together have a population greater than Benghazi….Khadafy's acts were a far cry from Rwanda, Darfur, Congo, Bosnia, and other killing fields….Despite ubiquitous cellphones equipped with cameras and video, there is no graphic evidence of deliberate massacre….Nor did Khadafy ever threaten civilian massacre in Benghazi, as Obama alleged. The ‘no mercy' warning, of March 17, targeted rebels only, as reported by The New York Times, which noted that Libya's leader promised amnesty for those ‘who throw their weapons away'. Khadafy even offered the rebels an escape route and open border to Egypt, to avoid a fight ‘to the bitter end'".

#58 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 11:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Not only did French jets bomb a retreating column, what we saw was a very short column that included trucks and ambulances, and that clearly could have neither destroyed nor occupied Benghazi."

Same column had been a threatening and advancing column against the people of Benghazi only hours before, my sympathies just don't extend to them. Those same people would have butchered the people of Benghazi had they not been stopped, so destroying their capacity to threaten again in the future was just prudent.

#59 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 11:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Libya:

In a bitter irony, what evidence there is of massacres, committed by both sides, is now to be found in Tripoli in recent days, months after NATO imposed its "life-saving" military measures. Revenge killings are daily being reported with greater frequency, including the wholesale slaughter of black Libyans and African migrants by rebel forces. Another sad irony: in Benghazi, which the insurgents have held for months now, well after Gaddafi forces were repulsed, not even that has prevented violence: revenge killings have been reported there too

#60 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 11:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

"there is to date still no evidence furnished that shows Benghazi would have witnessed the loss of "tens of thousands" of lives as proclaimed by Obama, Cameron, and Sarkozy."

B.S. There were the words uttered by Ghadafi's son, "rivers of blood." Sorry, you can't get away from it, we did what we did in response to a threat of genocide. Had we not done what we did we would be as ashamed today as we were after the genocide in Rwanda.

#61 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 11:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

"revenge killings have been reported there too"

Probably so, but then again.....revenge for what????? Sure, some of the revenge killings will be misdirected but the MURDERS that they are revenge for were directed by a government not a mob. Those who went along with it should rightly expect to be hunted down dontchathink?

#62 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 11:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Libya:

Patrick Cockburn summarized the functional utility of the myth of the "African mercenary" and the context in which it arose: "Since February, the insurgents, often supported by foreign powers, claimed that the battle was between Gaddafi and his family on the one side and the Libyan people on the other. Their explanation for the large pro-Gaddafi forces was that they were all mercenaries, mostly from black Africa, whose only motive was money". As he notes, black prisoners were put on display for the media (which is a violation of the Geneva Convention), but Amnesty International later found that all the prisoners had supposedly been released since none of them were fighters, but rather were undocumented workers from Mali, Chad, and west Africa. The myth was useful for the opposition to insist that this was a war between "Gaddafi and the Libyan people," as if he had no domestic support at all -- an absolute and colossal fabrication such that one would think only little children could believe a story so fantastic. The myth is also useful for cementing the intended rupture between "the new Libya" and Pan-Africanism, realigning Libya with Europe and the "modern world" which some of the opposition so explicitly crave.

Note the: "one would think only little children could believe a story so fantastic".

#63 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 11:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Their explanation for the large pro-Gaddafi forces was that they were all mercenaries,"

That is simply not true, no one that I have ever read made that claim.

#64 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 11:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Libya:

The "African mercenary" myth continues to be one of the most vicious of all the myths, and the most racist. Even in recent days, newspapers such as the Boston Globe uncritically and unquestioningly show photographs of black victims or black detainees with the immediate assertion that they must be mercenaries, despite the absence of any evidence. Instead we are usually provided with casual assertions that Gaddafi is "known to have" recruited Africans from other nations in the past, without even bothering to find out if those shown in the photos are black Libyans. The lynching of both black Libyans and Sub-Saharan African migrant workers has been continuous, and has neither received any expression of even nominal concern by the U.S. and NATO members, nor has it aroused the interest of the so-called "International Criminal Court". There is as little chance of there being any justice for the victims as there is of anyone putting a stop to these heinous crimes that clearly constitute a case of ethnic cleansing. The media, only now, is becoming more conscious of the need to cover these crimes, having glossed them over for months.

#65 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 11:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Their explanation for the large pro-Gaddafi forces was that they were all mercenaries,"

That is simply not true, no one that I have ever read made that claim.

#64 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 11:27 PM | Reply |

The "African mercenary" myth, as put into deadly, racist practice, is a fact that paradoxically has been both documented and ignored. Months ago an extensive review of the role of the mainstream media, led by Al Jazeera, as well as the seeding of social media created the African mercenary myth. Among the departures from the norm of vilifying Sub-Saharan Africans and black Libyans that instead documented the abuse of these civilians, were the Los Angeles Times, Human Rights Watch which found no evidence of any mercenaries at all in eastern Libya (totally contradicting the claims presented as truth by Al Arabiya and The Telegraph, among others such as TIME and The Guardian). In an extremely rare departure from the propaganda about the black mercenary threat which Al Jazeera and its journalists helped to actively disseminate, Al Jazeera produced a single report focusing on the robbing, killing, and abduction of black residents in eastern Libya (now that CBS, Channel 4, and others are noting the racism, Al Jazeera is trying to ambiguously show some interest). Finally, there is some increased recognition of these facts of media collaboration in the racist vilification of the insurgents' civilian victims -- see FAIR: "NYT Points Out ‘Racist Overtones' in Libyan Disinformation It Helped Spread".

#66 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 11:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Crowded into an empty classroom which was stinking of unwashed bodies and reeking of fear, Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's defeated mercenary killers awaited their fate.
A week earlier the men – Libyan loyalists of the dictator and black African recruits – had been landed at airports throughout eastern Libya and sent out into the streets to shoot protesters in a murderous rampage. They killed dozens before they were overwhelmed by anti-Gaddafi militias.
The survivors were exhausted, filthy, far from home, and fearful of execution, even though they had been assured of good treatment. Fifty of them lay on mattresses on the floor in one classroom alone, with nearly 100 more in the same school building which was being used as a temporary prison. Most looked dazed. Some were virtually children.
"A man at the bus station in Sabha offered me a job and said I would get a free flight to Tripoli," said Mohammed, a boy of about 16 who said he had arrived looking for work in the southern Libyan town only two weeks ago from Chad, where he had earned a living as a shepherd.
Instead of Tripoli, he was flown to an airport near the scruffy seaside town of Al-Bayda and had a gun thrust into his hands on the plane."

www.telegraph.co.uk

#67 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 11:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's late, I'm tired but please don't consider my need for sleep to be an acknowledgement of Matsop's lies to be thuths. He is a sick puppy. I honestly believe he is not just a regular poster here, he is here to put forth some sort of agenda and it is evil, that much I am pretty sure of.

#68 | Posted by danni at 2014-04-27 11:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, Danni, my point is that we have a dangerous government now controlled by people without a noble agenda. They have their own agenda and don't give a d____ about the American people----we've become a warring nation without any values that's not controlled by the American people but by neocons, investment bankers, and multinational corporations. We're lied to and propagandized on a continual basis---clearly shown time and again both domestically and internationally. If you want a part of that that's fine with me but I don't want anything to do with it---and you wonder why we're all spied on---is that a sign of a noble transparent government.

#69 | Posted by matsop at 2014-04-27 11:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

"my point is that we have a dangerous government now controlled by people without a noble agenda." - Matsop

I agree,and even if its a noble agenda, the next administration might not be? that is my problem with government over reach it just keeps going.

#70 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-04-27 11:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

#70

It was recently announced that Energizer now sponsors all government operations.

#71 | Posted by mariosanchez at 2014-04-28 12:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

"my point is that we have a dangerous government controlled by people without a noble agenda. i.e. 'the founding fathers'". -- shawn

#72 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-04-28 12:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Perhaps if they are called fascisti enough times by people who have no better plan than to let the GOP win the next Pres election, they'll just dissolve into thin air.

#73 | Posted by Corky at 2014-04-28 12:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Government Control of media and information."

Finally a point that Obama and Putin can agree on.

#74 | Posted by bogey1355 at 2014-04-28 03:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

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