Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, February 23, 2014

Michael Hiltzik: Kevin Drum wonders whether there's a single genuine Obamacare horror story out there, given that virtually every yarn promoted by Republicans or conservatives about people hurt by the Affordable Care Act has deflated like a pricked balloon on the merest examination. It's a very good question, inspired by the latest horror story bloomer -- the tale of one Julia Boonstra of Michigan, wholesaled by the Koch-founded conservative organization Americans for Prosperity. In a political ad being run by AFP against a Democratic senate candidate in Michigan, Boonstra asserts that Obamacare has made her leukemia treatment "unaffordable" and "jeopardized" her health. But when Glenn Kessler of the Washington Post checked out her story, he found it didn't hold up.

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The health insurance landscape in the U.S. is very uneven terrain, though plainly less uneven now than it was before the ACA was enacted.

But you don't see these nuanced narratives being offered by the anti-Obamacare lobby, perhaps because they are nuanced. Much easier to gin up a scare story out of whole cloth, exploiting a willing patient and a careless news reader. This is how an American public gets convinced that a program manifestly in their best interests is something bad.

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All they have is lies which plays well with their willfully ignorant base.

#1 | Posted by squinch at 2014-02-23 12:43 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

I see we have a winner in the idiot thread of the day.

#2 | Posted by Paneocon at 2014-02-23 01:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 4

A self proclaiming victory in this case is the correct call.

#3 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-23 02:57 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

So forget about poo Obamas. lies, he's a nobody.

#4 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2014-02-23 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

A guy at my work has been railing against Obama and Obamacare for months, up until last week when he found out that he's going to receive a rebate "because of Obamacare." I have never seen the guy with a bigger smile. Probably would never vote for Hillary, and no doubt voted against Obama, but he's happy as a clam with his Obamacare.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

#5 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-23 04:24 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

see we have a winner in the idiot thread of the day.
#2 | Posted by Paneocon at 2014-02-23 01:25 PM

I see we have a winner in the idiot post of the day.
DE-NIAL is not just a river in Egypt, fool.

#6 | Posted by e1g1 at 2014-02-23 04:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

6 denial is not accepting that the majority of Americans are against aca....and pretending it doesn't matter.

#7 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2014-02-23 05:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

6 denial is not accepting that the majority of Americans are against aca....and pretending it doesn't matter.

#7 | POSTED BY DAVETHEWAVE AT 2014-02-23 05:05 PM | FLAG: EYE ROLL

Denial is pretending that you know what the majority of Americans think.

I bet you get your information from watching the psychic bots on FAUX snooze. Get back to us when you learn how to use your remote.

#8 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-02-23 05:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Choice is gone, all they want is our money. Why should I pay for what I don't want or need. My $400 per month premium will now be $1,300, over 25% of my income.

---- em, I'll pay the fine.

#9 | Posted by bat4255 at 2014-02-23 05:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Tell a lie often enough and people will think its truth. Conservatives are really good at exploiting the unsophisticated boobs in their base. If they can manage to get a oversimplified narrative out quickly and loudly it will drown out the truth before. The really sad part is that thousands of people will be so convinced of republican lies they will deny themselves access to services that would other save their lives. The GOP and conservatives are convincing people to vote directly against their own best interest.

#10 | Posted by ron81 at 2014-02-23 05:20 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

the president for three years read from a prepared statement on a teleprompter and when we found out they were lies, he said it was misspoken and you people believed the dems when they lied about the lies.

I certainly understand that attempt to deny it. As we see so often, the first front on the war on christians and christmas is to deny there's a war to use just one example. Same way here and 'you people' are falling for it.

You can take any comments you want and lie about them and change them as the left does constantly but all I know is my bills will go up and I will be EXTORTED into paying for more baby killing, birth control and radical, left wing, extremist, poor people baiting and liberty strangling liberal policies that are sending us RIGHT where the president has us aimed....the 'famous' liberal toilet... And, when some of you try and tell me that's a lie, I will always be able to look at the monthly premium and the deductible to prove that democrats are little more than common liars and will deserve whatever bad things come to them from this assault on our basic liberty.

#11 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-23 05:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

I bet you get your information from watching the psychic bots on FAUX snooze. Get back to us when you learn how to use your remote.

#8 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-02

aha aha ha ha ha..not much else to say on comments like this but laugh as someone as drone like as you don't care if the govt puts an agency into newsrooms to control what information comes from this network. I say this network because everyone knows that idea, now scrapped, was to make sure this liar wasn't exposed because the others, the obama steno pool, certainly aren't a problem for the liars and despicable people of such low integrity that work for obama.

but it's Sunday and I"m waiting on the rockets to come on, so it's nice to come here and have a nice chuckle at your 'one hit pony' attack on the right wing.

KEEP UP the good work....

#12 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-23 06:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Tell a lie often enough and people will think its truth. .....
#10 | Posted by ron81 a

wow...it's nice to agree with someone from the other side of reality...ha ha..it's a joke..

seriously..I agree...let's see now

"YOU CAN KEEP YOUR DOCTOR"

"YOU CAN KEEP YOUR PLAN"....

hey I see what you mean..

:)

#13 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-23 06:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

war on christians

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What a load of crap.

#14 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2014-02-23 06:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

LOL!!

#15 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2014-02-23 06:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Many Obamacare Horror Stories Are Lies

I know that I was ridiculed by all the cons on here when I said the same. Ah well.

#16 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-02-23 07:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let us pray. Dear lord, Thank you for sending your bastard son to help me unload my truck at a good price. Yea verily, I offered them some sausage biscuits and they would only eat one apiece.

E pruritus unum, ipso facto, rsvp, inhi. Amen.

#1 | Posted by kudzu at 2014-02-23 09:0

so to put in proper context, this was from nooner which precipitated my comparison....with this..

As we see so often, the first front on the war on christians and christmas is to deny there's a war to use just one example.

AND THEN RIGHT ON CUE as if I pulled your STRINGS just at the right time we get this....

war on christians

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

What a load of crap.

#14 | Posted by Zatoichi a

thanks ZAT>...you just MIGHT be the record holder for replies proving EXACTLY what I accused the left of......

good work...

#17 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-23 07:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

A guy at my work has been railing against Obama and Obamacare for months, up until last week when he found out that he's going to receive a rebate "because of Obamacare." I have never seen the guy with a bigger smile. Probably would never vote for Hillary, and no doubt voted against Obama, but he's happy as a clam with his Obamacare.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
#5 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11

Its like WalMart, nothing like getting a good price and screwing your neighbor out of a job.

Oh yeah... I forgot...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!

#18 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-02-23 07:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

#18 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS

Is it really? Please, explain further.

[pffft] [pffft]

#19 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-23 07:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

I tell ya what??

contact this lady....tell her she's a liar....then get back to us...NO I"M SERIOUS....see if you can send her a message, tell her she's lying and she should just get in line behind obama like the rest of you...

scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net

#20 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-23 07:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

I take pride in that my detractors are

A. Senile and ridden with dementia
B. Under 15 and live in their respective caretakers basements
C. Roger Ailes Bots

#21 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-02-23 10:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

I take pride in that my detractors are

A. Senile and ridden with dementia
B. Under 15 and live in their respective caretakers basements
C. Roger Ailes Bots

#21 | POSTED BY HARRY_POWELL

You would. LOL

#22 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-23 10:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hey ------, how's it goin'? I thought you died of emphysema.

#23 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-02-23 11:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

I thought you died of emphysema.

That's what you get for thinking when you aren't used to it. LOL

#24 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-23 11:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hey ------, how's it goin'?

Really, really well. Kicking back, enjoying life, traveling, drinking good liquor and eating good food and enjoying the most beautiful and sweet granddaughters an old fat man like me could ask for.

Thanks for asking!

#25 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-23 11:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Flag:

6 denial is not accepting that the majority of Americans are against aca....and pretending it doesn't matter.

#7 | Posted by DavetheWave

REAL denial is grouping the people who didn't want any health reform TOGETHER with the people who wanted SINGLE PAYER to act like this is some sort of majority united against obamacare.

#26 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-02-23 11:31 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I hope they are all lies. One thing we've learned from you libs is it doesn't matter as long as you say it often.

#27 | Posted by mysterytoy at 2014-02-23 11:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

One thing we've learned from you libs is it doesn't matter as long as you say it often.

#27 | Posted by mysterytoy

Right. Bengaziii acorn! Bengaziii acorn!Bengaziii acorn!Bengaziii acorn!Bengaziii acorn!

#28 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-02-23 11:48 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

aaaaaaaaaaaaha ha ha

if we had ever seen anyone involved with benghazi come forward other than the known liar RICE get on tv, admit she lied because she said she didn't care if she lied or not....and if acorn didn't redo itself in a couple of hundred front companies like every good business of crooks, frauds and criminals do...perhaps we wouldn't keep asking for the truth.

#29 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-24 07:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

26 LOL So you can't even admit the truth!!

THAT'S DENIAL

#30 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2014-02-24 08:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

What constitutes a "horror story?"

Is it a horror story when your plan gets cancelled? What about when the rates increase by 20%? What about when they double?

Triple?

What about when they quardruple?

Aren't all of those horror stories? And there's absolutely no doubt that this has happened to somewhere around 5 million people. The White House estimates that as many as 10.5 million could be affected this way.

But when you are the one presenting the horror stories, you can use artistics lisence to define it in whatever manner best befits the narrative.

#31 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-24 10:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

#31 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

It's only a horror story if Paul Krugman says it is.

#32 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-24 10:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

so the lady from my link that, NATURALLY, no libber wanted to take me up on the suggestion that they contact them....

a democrat nutjob is campaigning for the senate seat in michigan but calling her and others liars....

hee hee hee hee......but hey, when your state's major city is turned into a big pile of trash and poor people because of years of liberal policies, and the people keep voting democrat because what little they have is given to them by dems......well it stands to reason that dems don't have to campaign too smartly.

michellemalkin.com

#33 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-24 11:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

What about when they quardruple?

Aren't all of those horror stories? And there's absolutely no doubt that this has happened to somewhere around 5 million people. The White House estimates that as many as 10.5 million could be affected this way.

But when you are the one presenting the horror stories, you can use artistics lisence to define it in whatever manner best befits the narrative.

#31 | Posted by madbomber

If there's "no doubt" that 5 million people have had their rates QUADRUPLE I'm sure you could find a link for it that's not from part of the right wing propaganda stampede...

The plans that have been cancelled were FAKE plans- the ones that drop you as soon as you get sick. Those people didn't have real insurance to begin with, so they're not losing anything except the opportunity to be ripped off.

#34 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-02-24 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

34 see truth be told aca wasnt about insuring the uninsureds.....it was about rewriting all insurance.

Which prove aca was sold as a lie from the get go

#35 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2014-02-24 01:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you like your insurance, shove it I won and screw you, because I could care less about you.

#36 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2014-02-24 01:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

The plans that have been cancelled were FAKE plans
#34 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

That is a pile of male bovine excrement. Plans offered by Aetna?

Aetna also rejects ability to renew plans that have been canceled by ACA
Aetna became the second health insurer in New Jersey to announce it will not reinstate or extend the health plans that were canceled because they did not comply with the new rules for 2014 under the Affordable Care Act, the company announced Tuesday.
www.njbiz.com

Plans offered by Blue Cross/Blue shield, Highmark, and Kaiser Permanente?

Thousands Of Consumers Get Insurance Cancellation Notices Due To Health Law Changes

Florida Blue, for example, is terminating about 300,000 policies, about 80 percent of its individual policies in the state. Kaiser Permanente in California has sent notices to 160,000 people – about half of its individual business in the state. Insurer Highmark in Pittsburgh is dropping about 20 percent of its individual market customers, while Independence Blue Cross, the major insurer in Philadelphia, is dropping about 45 percent.
www.kaiserhealthnews.org

SPEAKSOFTLY you continue to embarrass yourself. Your credibility is entering the danni zone.

#37 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-02-24 01:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Which prove aca was sold as a lie from the get go

#35 | POSTED BY DAVETHEWAVE

Remember this lie? The bill wasn't even law and it was proven to built on a lie.

Medicare cuts can't be double-counted

In March of 2011, Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius admitted that the law double-counts its reductions in Medicare spending, by claiming that the law both reduces the deficit and extends Medicare's solvency.

www.forbes.com

#38 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-02-24 01:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

f-em, I'll pay the fine.
#9 | Posted by bat4255

It's a tax, haven't you heard?

#39 | Posted by path at 2014-02-24 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Still no real horror stories I see.
Strong work, right wingers.

#40 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-02-24 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Still no real horror stories I see.
Strong work, right wingers.

#40 | Posted by snoofy

What should be do? Hook up a plasma tv under your bed?

#41 | Posted by wisgod at 2014-02-24 04:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It's a tax, haven't you heard?"

#39 | POSTED BY PATH

Yup, but if I have to pay, 1% is better than 25%.

Details here
www.factcheck.org

As it goes for me, I think I'm exempt because insurance is more than 8%.

Excerpt from above link.
..Who's Exempt?
The law makes a number of exemptions for low-income persons and hardship cases.
"Individuals who cannot afford coverage": If an employer offers coverage that would cost the employee more than 8 percent of his or her household income (for self-only coverage) that individual is exempt from the tax...

#42 | Posted by bat4255 at 2014-02-24 05:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

I didn't even have to look at the article to know that it was written by Michael Hiltzik, who is an unabashed Obamanaic and a real idiot.

#43 | Posted by Rightocenter at 2014-02-24 06:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

I didn't even have to look at the article to know that it was written by Michael Hiltzik, who is an unabashed Obamanaic and a real idiot.

#43 | POSTED BY RIGHTOCENTER

Krugmann echoed this crap in the Times today.

Surely you are shocked.

#44 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-24 06:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Neither party has any interest in real national health care. If they did medicare would have been extended to everyone without all the political bull#$%@.

#45 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-02-24 07:09 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Neither party has any interest in real national health care. If they did medicare would have been extended to everyone without all the political bull#$%@.

#45 | POSTED BY SHAWN

If left un-checked, Medicare will single-handedly bankrupt this country.

Foundational changes to the program are needed but neither party has the political stomach to deal with this catastrophe.

#46 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-24 07:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

I went on the ACA website just to see what my premiums might be. $1200 a month for my family of four. The deductible was high. I thought it was supposed to be affordable.

#47 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-24 07:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

#47: Affordable is the oxymoron of ACA. Maybe that's why a lot of people call it Obamacare, because the POTUS is expensive in many other ways.

#48 | Posted by path at 2014-02-24 08:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think I'll copy this thread...what a great look into liberals it is..

people who don't like it have facts and links and all sorts of things to back their side up

virtually the only argument from the left is they want to keep their heads buried in the sand and common name calling....surely no one need ANY more proof that these stories are true.

*commentary provided by the AFKABL2 investiga.....

OH IM sorry but due to obamacare, we had to cut back our hours and that word in the sentence means time is up.

#49 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-24 08:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If left un-checked, Medicare will single-handedly bankrupt this country."

The best thing you could do to fix Medicare is to let younger healthier people buy in through premiums just like insurance. The younger, healthier people would save money and, by doing so, they would make MEdicare solvent.

#50 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-24 08:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#50 | POSTED BY DANNI

That's too damn easy, DANNI, and you know it.

#51 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-24 08:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

The best thing you could do to fix Medicare is to let younger healthier people buy in through premiums just like insurance. The younger, healthier people would save money and, by doing so, they would make MEdicare solvent.

#50 | POSTED BY DANNI

Can you provide some supporting data for your claim?

#52 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-24 08:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Jeff, I would call you stupid but that would be against the rules here. Suffice it to say that medicare is pretty much the only reason that the usa isn't in revolt. But it is not particularly surprising that you believe what you are saying; considering that most of the rest of the developed world has national health care and is not bankrupt(doubt you have been outside of the state of your birth, let alone been to another country).

#53 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-02-24 09:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Jeff, I would call you stupid but that would be against the rules here. Suffice it to say that medicare is pretty much the only reason that the usa isn't in revolt. But it is not particularly surprising that you believe what you are saying; considering that most of the rest of the developed world has national health care and is not bankrupt(doubt you have been outside of the state of your birth, let alone been to another country).

#53 | POSTED BY SHAWN

If Medicare isn't structurally changed it will bankrupt this country completely. The unfunded liabilities vastly exceed any economic funding models.

If you believe that the program is vital to this country's unity then get your head out of the sand and at least acknowledge what all of the actuaries are screaming - it's on an unsustainable course.

Course correction doesn't have to mean repeal or anything close. But acknowledgement of mathematical reality so that corrections can at least be debated would be refreshing.

I am not holding my breath though.

PS - I have not only been outside of my state of birth but have been outside of this country as well.

#54 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-24 09:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Shawn,

On the one hand I am kind of disappointed that you didn't call me 'fascist'. On the other hand I am impressed that you expanded your repertoire to include 'stupid', even if it was indirect.

Kidding aside...

The biggest market distortion that drives up medical costs is 3rd party transactions. It doesn't matter whether the 3rd party is government or an insurance company.

The best way to truly bend the cost-curve down is to adopt and HSA model of building a cash account and maintaining high-deductible catastrophic insurance.

Single payer leads to ------ care, fewer and fewner innovations, longer waits for basic stuff and rationing.

#55 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-24 10:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

All complete total and utter bs jeff.

The only change that medicare needs is for the fascisti to stop raiding it. The rest is scare propaganda.

No, you aren't a fascist. You are what stalin used to call a 'useful idiot'; same as all fake libertarians. Your function is to decry social spending while the rich benefit from tilting the table against the masses, and take care of their own. i.e. the non wealthy lose their homes, while the 1 percent vote themselves a bailout; AND ALWAYS WILL.

You will never learn because then you would have to acknowledge that real liberals have who have been championing rights for the masses were correct all a long. You, like all fake libertarians, cannot learn what has been known since Aristotle; that there is nor has there ever been a free market; the only question is: who is in control of it. Basically you think that you are too cool for school; when in fact you are stuck in a system of anti-learning same as the rest of the sheeple.

#56 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-02-24 10:57 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Single payer leads to ------ care, fewer and fewner innovations, longer waits for basic stuff and rationing.

#55 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

The entire rest of the developed world disagrees with you, but you're right and they're wrong, of course.

#57 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-24 11:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 4

#56 | POSTED BY SHAWN

Whatever.

Fact is Medicare is currently in the tens of trillions in unfunded liabilities.

The Boomers are set to retire en masse. This means fewer taxpayers and more recipients.

The trajectory is unsustainable and this doesn't just apply to Medicare. We are talking Medicaid, SS and now ACA. $17 trillion in debt with no end in sight. We are debasing our currency. our government is borrowing money from itself and calling it 'Quantitative Easing'. Our current economy, such as it is, is being propped up by near-zero interest rates. When the rates go up, and they eventually will, the mere cost of just servicing our national debt will sky-rocket.

This isn't, or at least shouldn't be, a partisan issue. Both political parties are complicit in this disaster.

The numbers and actuarial analyses regrettably bear this out.

Our political class has raped all of us and this country will go bankrupt unless tough choices are made.

It's disheartening to see people who seemingly have brains in their heads be so ignorant of simple economic/mathematic reality.

#58 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-24 11:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah. Amazing that everybody else in the world can figure it out except us.

#59 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-25 12:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

Fact is that you are wrong. Medicare has been repeatedly raided, that is why it is unfunded. There is nothing wrong with it. But as i said, I don't expect you to learn better. You can't, because then you would have to understand the social forces of the world instead of trying to pretend to be above it all.

#60 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-02-25 12:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

Shawn, why are you so hostile towards someone who is being quite civil in his conversation with you?

#61 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-25 12:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

Plans offered by Blue Cross/Blue shield, Highmark, and Kaiser Permanente?

Thousands Of Consumers Get Insurance Cancellation Notices Due To Health Law Changes

Florida Blue, for example, is terminating about 300,000 policies, about 80 percent of its individual policies in the state. Kaiser Permanente in California has sent notices to 160,000 people – about half of its individual business in the state. Insurer Highmark in Pittsburgh is dropping about 20 percent of its individual market customers, while Independence Blue Cross, the major insurer in Philadelphia, is dropping about 45 percent.
www.kaiserhealthnews.org

SPEAKSOFTLY you continue to embarrass yourself. Your credibility is entering the danni zone.

#37 | Posted by paneocon

You think just because a corporation has a recognizable name that they weren't offering scam plans that would dump you as soon as you got sick?

Sucker.

#62 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-02-25 12:15 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Fact is that you are wrong. Medicare has been repeatedly raided, that is why it is unfunded. There is nothing wrong with it. But as i said, I don't expect you to learn better. You can't, because then you would have to understand the social forces of the world instead of trying to pretend to be above it all.

#60 | POSTED BY SHAWN

I don't deny that it was supposed to be funded seperately - off the books, a 'lockbox', if you will.

That doesn't change the facts that:

A. It HAS been raided.

B. Raided or not, its trajectory is mathematically impossible unless it is structurally changed.

I could care less about whatever 'social forces' you are alluding to.

The fact is this program is on an unsustainable course. The quicker we make the necessary corrections, the less painful said corrections will be.

#63 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-25 12:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah. Amazing that everybody else in the world can figure it out except us.

#59 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN

Right. The Health care system in the UK is such a model of first-world efficiency.

#64 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-25 12:32 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

There are more countries in the world than the UK, you know. What all other countries do have is universal coverage and some security that you will not be left to die because you don't have money. You would be hard put to find a "rich" country that would trade their health care systems for ours. But apparently they're all just too stupid to understand that our system is "better" (except the few rich folks who come to the US to use their money to jump to the head of the line). "Conservatives" seem to think it a matter of principle that all benefits of society have to be "earned". That there are no benefits to just being a citizen or a human being. That no one is "entitled" to any kind of security. All these other countries are signatories to the UN Declaration of Human Rights which counts health care as a "human right". Although the US was key in writing the Declaration, we refuse to adopt it.

#65 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-25 01:00 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#65

Your argument is a non-sequitur on so many levels.

I don't care what the corroding countries in Europe have put into place.

Reality dictates that we take where our country currently sits as a starting point. Our existing programs, if left unchanged, will bankrupt this country.

Know that.

Our current trajectory is mathematically impossible.

The private sector simply cannot create enough wealth to be confiscated and redistributed to fund all of this - not given where things stand and where things are headed.

Why can't any of you liberals at least acknowledge the numbers that are readily available?

Seriously.

Are you people allergic to actuarial math?

#66 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-25 01:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

There are more countries in the world than the UK, you know.

Yep.

Canada is a case in point.

Nowhere near as bad as the UK (of course you shrug off the UK's health system as if it doesn't exist), YET, a high-level official unapologetically came to the US for critical treatment. And this coming from one of the 'best run' government healthcare systems in the world today.

Does that not give you any kind of pause?

#67 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-25 01:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

You are obfuscating jeff. There is nothing wrong with social security. And there is no good argument for not extending its medical coverage to the rest of the usa. None what so ever.

#68 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-02-25 02:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

Show me how to pay for all of this using actuarial math

#69 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-25 02:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

Right. The Health care system in the UK is such a model of first-world efficiency.

#64 | Posted by JeffJ

If you take into account COST vs RESULTS then yes the UK's health system is more efficient than the US. And almost NONE of the citizens over there wouldn't trade their health system for ours.

#70 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-02-25 10:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

Well, for one thing, you eliminate the middle-man of for-profit health insurance companies, like the rest of the world. In most countries they can only sell "supplemental" policies that cover bells and whistles like private rooms and the like. For-profit insurance for basic care is legal only in the US. Next, everybody pays premiums through their taxes (even the young, healthy ones), prescription drug prices are negotiated at bulk rates (like the VA does), and providers are paid for keeping patients healthy, not for running as many expensive tests (e.g., MRI) as they can (while owning the machines: a conflict of interest if there ever was one).

#71 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-25 10:59 AM | Reply | Flag:

#70 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

Good democratic model

UK healthcare on brink of collapse – NHS regulator
A UK health and social care watchdog has warned that the country's healthcare system is on the brink of collapse, and that many patients – particularly the elderly – are going to hospital for emergencies when they should have been seen much earlier.

rt.com

#72 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-02-25 11:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

The best thing you could do to fix Medicare is to let younger healthier people buy in through premiums just like insurance. The younger, healthier people would save money and, by doing so, they would make MEdicare solvent.

#50 | Posted by danni at 20

nice concept...HEY I KNOW...let's replace "medicare" with "obamacare"...let's replace 'let' to 'force' and you have the ACA....not sure it's working as well as you want it to though..

lol

#73 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-25 12:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

I will always remember a friend in montreal last year who was so sick she could barely talk....I asked why she had not seen a doctor in the week of being sick and here are her words..

"in Canada, younger people who aren't sick a lot hardly get to see a doctor when they are."

#74 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-25 12:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

I wonder why you on the right keep pointing to the UK as if that was the only alternative. There are better health systems that are ranked higher. The US is near the bottom.

#75 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-25 01:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

UK healthcare on brink of collapse – NHS regulator
A UK health and social care watchdog has warned that the country's healthcare system is on the brink of collapse, and that many patients – particularly the elderly – are going to hospital for emergencies when they should have been seen much earlier.

rt.com

#72 | Posted by paneocon

Did you even read your own link? He was calling to move funds from emergency care to preventative care. A logical and responsible move. Nothing at all in that article that indicates america's for profit system is in any way better than the UK's single payer.

#76 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-02-25 01:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

All of these countries with single payer systems are a fraction of the population of the US.

Why not leave it up to the states?

Massachusetts has it's own health care system.

Perhaps California could set up a single pay system for their state.

Why do you on the left have such a central government fetish?

#77 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-25 01:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

All of these countries with single payer systems are a fraction of the population of the US.

#77 | Posted by JeffJ

And therefore they make it work with a fraction of the tax base.

The whole "it only works in small countries" argument has no logical basis.

#78 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-02-25 01:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

The whole "it only works in small countries" argument has no logical basis.

#78 | POSTED BY SPEAKSOFTLY

That is so wrong. History has shown again and again that the larger a bureaucracy, the more unwieldy and inefficient it becomes. Just look at local vs county vs state vs federal governments. The higher you go in the government hierarchy, the less productive it is.

#79 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-25 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

let younger healthier people buy in through premiums just like insurance. The younger, healthier people would save money

Problem is, most of those younger healthier people are staying on mom and dad's policy until they are 26 years old and NOT paying..

#80 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-25 05:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

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