Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, February 23, 2014

Dean Burnett, The Guardian: Any time-travelling sci-fi character (at least ones created by Western society) seems to want to kill Hitler, so much so that there's a trope about how it's impossible. ... But as noble as it seems, killing the Fuhrer via time travel is a terrible idea, for real-world reasons, not just those in fiction. So should you get hold of a time machine and make plans to kill Hitler, here are some reasons why you shouldn't.

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mysterytoy

 

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[Reason 5]: Hitler lost.

In a way, Hitler had the perfect combination of drive, charisma, evil and incompetence to unite the world against him and ensure that his forces lost. It's such an unlikely combination of factors that the only way to consciously make it happen would be to go back in time and remove anyone else who might have ...

... oh. Oh dear.

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Tough. When the work in my garage in complete, I'm going to kidnap Jesus and transport him straight to the fuhrer bunker in 1938.

Death Match! King of the Jews vs. Antichrist # 2.

#1 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-02-22 11:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Were it not for Hitler's evil we'd eventually have faced monsters just as bad but with better weapons i.e. nukes.

#2 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-22 11:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You've got a time machine, I've got a gun. What the hell – let's kill Hitler."

Heinlein dealt with this a bit too with one time line where Hitler had been killed that was so bad they had to block it off.

#3 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-22 11:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

He lived in Argentina until 1999 (666) at 110 years old.

#4 | Posted by reitze at 2014-02-23 01:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

Hitler was evil, but Himmler and Rosenberg were even worse.
I have often wondered why Stalin was allowed to thrive, until I ponder some of the animals who were under him.

#5 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-02-23 02:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

Try Lazar Kaganovich, for example. The man who organized the gulag system, making Himmler look like a piker in that respect, also did something the NY Times denied ever happened. Some estimates of casualties from this one act exceed all of Hitler's camps:

Kaganovich (together with Vyacheslav Molotov) participated with the All-Ukrainian Party Conference of 1930 and were given the task of implementation of the collectivization policy that caused a catastrophic 1932–33 famine known as the Holodomor. He also personally oversaw grain confiscations during the same time periods. Similar policies also inflicted enormous suffering on the Soviet Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan, the Kuban region, Crimea, the lower Volga region, and other parts of the Soviet Union. As an emissary of the Central Committee of the Communist Party, Kaganovich traveled to Ukraine, the central regions of the USSR, the Northern Caucasus, and Siberia demanding the acceleration of collectivization and repressions against the Kulaks, who were generally blamed for the slow progress of collectivization. Attorney Rafael Lemkin in his work The Soviet Genocide in Ukraine tried to present the fact of Holodomor to the Nuremberg trials as a genocide of a totalitarian regime.[2]

en.wikipedia.org

#6 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-02-23 02:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

The Twilight Zone: Season 1, Episode 5
Cradle of Darkness (2 Oct. 2002)

#7 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-02-23 03:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

Godwin would not have gotten his 15 minutes

#8 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-23 07:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Who else could ensure that we'd never have to see Charlie Chaplin moustaches ever again?

#9 | Posted by censored at 2014-02-23 09:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

Actually, my time machine would take me back to select times in my life to see if I could get laid more.

#10 | Posted by Whizzo at 2014-02-23 09:59 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

One could posit that Oppenheimer is more evil.

#11 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-02-23 10:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oppenheimer was a God and my grandfather worked with him.

#12 | Posted by reitze at 2014-02-23 10:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

I would go back and invent the internets so I could steal that claim from Al Gore. As well as way back to warn the saber tooth tigers and wooly mammoths that they will die off because they are causing global warming with thier SUVs. Maybe tell the founding fathers that they should include something in the Constitution about EOs that advocate killing US citizens without trial or due process, warrantless wiretaps, GITMOs etc.

#13 | Posted by aescal at 2014-02-23 11:06 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Oppenheimer created the atomic bomb when he knew (he knew!) that the German program wasn't even capable of getting a reactor going.
If you think he's a god, that explains a lot about you, buddy.

#14 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-02-23 11:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'd go back and buy starving student Bill Gates beers, encouraging him all the way.

#15 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-02-24 12:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Oppenheimer created the atomic bomb..."

More like Fermi and the Hungarians on the team did while Oppenheimer took face time.

#16 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-02-24 12:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

One could posit that Oppenheimer is more evil.
#11 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-02-23 10:03 PM | Reply | Flag: Flag:

Oppenheimer was a God and my grandfather worked with him.
#12 | Posted by reitze

Gods... can be evil. :)

#17 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-02-24 12:26 AM | Reply | Flag:

Take a more politically neutral question: If you could go back in time and kill Justin Bieber...

#18 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-02-24 12:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Dean Burnett promises he is not a time-travelling Nazi. But then, he would say that, wouldn't he?"

so, the universe is a projection. There must be many such projections. Even if one views reality as thousands or millions of dimensions, there could be several simultaneously existing as the result of changes made during backward time travel. Who wants to travel forward & back just to get the next winning mega~millions number? (not me)

#19 | Posted by kenx at 2014-02-24 02:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

"...so, the universe is a projection. There must be many such projections. Even if one views reality as thousands or millions of dimensions, there could be several simultaneously existing as the result of changes made during backward time travel."

Ummm, yeah. How much for a quarter ounce?

#20 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-02-24 03:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Whack Mohammed. (someone had to say it) Yeah, I know, Christians were screwed up, too, but you only have to get rid of one team to cancel the game.

#21 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-02-24 07:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

Take a more politically neutral question: If you could go back in time and kill Justin Bieber...

Nobel Peace Prize.

As the author of the article says though killing someone in cold blood for crimes they have not yet committed is not something most humans are set up to do.

Personally if I had a time machine I would go back and try to meet Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, Mohammed. I would watch the plays of Shakespeare preformed by him in the globe. Go drinking with Hemingway, ride a river boat with Twain. Help Franklin with his kite, shake hands with Jefferson talk economics with Smith. Watch the temples being built, take a picture of a dinosaur.

There is so much to see, so much to do I would run out of life before I ran out of places to go and people to meet.

#22 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-24 08:05 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#22 Well, sure, but the question isn't who you would want to meet...I think everyone has a list of great people they would want to meet...the question is who you would want to meet - and shoot.

#23 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-02-24 08:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

#14 | Posted by Harry_Powell
"Oppenheimer created the atomic bomb"

Putting it all on Oppenheimer is far too simplistic.
Oppenheimer managed the team that created the bomb, and his is the name we all know.
After Szilard's letter to FDR, there was no way we weren't going to create it, because someone was going to, be it us or someone else.
Had it not been Oppenheimer, Groves would have simply found someone else. Could've been someone like Teller, who was far less squeamish about it.

#24 | Posted by TheTom at 2014-02-24 09:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Gosh, the thrid reich is a bit rubbish" - Melody Pond

www.youtube.com

#25 | Posted by boyracer_x at 2014-02-24 09:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

We destroyed Hitler and then took over the planet ourselves, using more sophisticated economic and military weapons. We pretend to embrace noble causes, just like Joseph Goebbels instructed us. Then we hired SS man Werner Von Braun to bring our missiles program up to Germany's level.

#26 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-24 09:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

"You've got a time machine, I've got a gun."

#27 | Posted by TheTom at 2014-02-24 09:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

I agree with Stephen King, given the possibility, most would kill Hitler in a second.

... or let Edith Keeler die.

#28 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2014-02-24 10:20 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

I will be surprised if a Terminator doesn't pop out of the future to kill kill Ray Kurzweil. He will be known as the creator of "Skynet". And the root cause of the Singularity.

www.dailymail.co.uk

#29 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-02-24 10:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

Me, if I were a time traveler, I'd be assasinating both Mohammed and Jesus before they could unleash their havoc on a gullible world.

#30 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-02-24 11:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

I think I'd just go buy and sell a few shares of stock at the appropriate times.

#31 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-02-24 12:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think I'd just go buy and sell a few shares of stock at the appropriate times.

Lottery tickets would be quicker and with a much smaller investment ($1) and a much larger return.

#32 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-24 12:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

one is only as evil as their enablers allow them to be.

#33 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-02-24 01:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

PARSONS: except for the teacher you replaced, and that was just plain weird, her winning the lottery like that.
DOCTOR: How's that weird?
PARSONS: She never played. Said the ticket was posted through her door at midnight.
DOCTOR: Hmm. The world is very strange.

the question is who you would want to meet - and shoot.
#23 | POSTED BY MUSTANG

Sure but the point was we are not set up for shooting people for a crime they might commit. So even given a desire to shoot someone like Hitler could you (or me) bring yourself to do it? Honestly I doubt my ability.

Imagine going back shooting Hitler then coming back to today and finding that we all lived in a fascist state and spoke German you would be responsible for murder and a fascist world. That would be a heavy load to live with.

#34 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-24 01:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

if i had a time machine i would go back in time and warn george lucas of the pitfalls of jar-jar...

#35 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-02-24 01:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

He lived in Argentina until 1999 (6661) at 110 years old.
#4 | POSTED BY REITZE

FTFY!

#36 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-24 01:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

What amazes me is that you rarely hear anyone ask why HItler invaded Poland in the first place...

#37 | Posted by AuntieSocial at 2014-02-24 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Take a more politically neutral question: If you could go back in time and kill Justin Bieber...

#18 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-02-24 12:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

I'd go back and pay my phone bill on time instead.

Bieber's just a modern day teen girl heart throb. If you think "Baby" is any worse.. even any different than.. "I Think I Love You" I don't know how to help you.

#38 | Posted by soheifox at 2014-02-24 03:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'd be assasinating both Mohammed and Jesus before they could unleash their havoc on a gullible world.

#30 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-02-24 11:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

What's wrong with Jesus? he was a pretty standup guy as far as I can tell.

#39 | Posted by soheifox at 2014-02-24 03:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

if i had a time machine i would go back in time and warn george lucas of the pitfalls of jar-jar...

#35 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-02-24 01:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

What "pitfalls"? Jar Jar Binks perfectly served his purpose. He introduced a generation of kids to Star wars, as Ahsoka Tano did the next.

#40 | Posted by soheifox at 2014-02-24 03:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Me, if I were a time traveler, I'd be assasinating both Mohammed and Jesus before they could unleash their havoc on a gullible world.
#30 | POSTED BY MODER8

You had your chance during his 40 days in the wilderness and failed.

#41 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-02-24 04:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

I'd be assasinating both Mohammed and Jesus before they could unleash their havoc on a gullible world.

#30 | Posted by moder8

Meh. Messiahs were a dime a dozen during the Roman occupation of Judea. If it wasn't Jesus, it would be another one wielding a shoe or a gourd instead of a cross.

#42 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-24 04:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

I would prevent European settlers from reaching the North and South American continents.

Hitler was nothing, he killed a few europeans (Jews, Blacks, Gypsies, Gays...).

European settles murdered entire nations of people.

#43 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-02-24 04:43 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

#43

Most of whom were killed by disease of which the carriers were not even aware.
So, "murdered" is just more drama.

#44 | Posted by Corky at 2014-02-24 04:45 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I would prevent European settlers from reaching the North and South American continents.

But you just stepped into the all time classic of time traveler tales: The grandfather paradox.

#45 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-24 04:45 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

#43
Most of whom were killed by disease of which the carriers were not even aware.
So, "murdered" is just more drama.

#44 | POSTED BY CORKY

NW flag.

#46 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-24 04:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

"European settles murdered entire nations of people."

they were on our land. They had occupied it for free for long enough.

#47 | Posted by eberly at 2014-02-24 04:49 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 3

you dont have to kill him....you just have to buy his damn watercolor paintings....maybe get him a artist grant. That's why we have them today..to prevent the next Hitler.

#48 | Posted by dibblda at 2014-02-24 05:03 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

you dont have to kill him....you just have to buy his damn watercolor paintings....maybe get him a artist grant. That's why we have them today..to prevent the next Hitler.

Has anyone ever read a book by Norman Spinrad called "The Iron Dream"? His penname on this book only is "Adolf Hitler". The foreword tells of Hitler (died 1971) who dabbed in politics in Germany before deciding to become a writer. It's a sci-fi telling of a Nazi type world. Very good book.

Norman Spinrad signed about 25 copies as Adolf Hitler and are now collectors' items. I own one of them.

#49 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-24 05:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Also:

en.wikipedia.org

#50 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-24 05:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Goatman, I read the Iron Dream when I was a teen, and reread it a few years ago. It is an interesting idea, and I particularly enjoyed seeing the parallels between history and the fictional fantasy world supposedly created by sci if pulp fiction writer Hitler. The analysis at the end by some fictional literary scholar was the icing on the cake.

In that alternate universe Hitler didn't rise to power and life actually turned out worse. Communist rule had nearly taken over the entire planet, I believe.

Nice that you have a signed copy. I wonder what it might be worth.

If you are interested in alternate history and WWII, you might like the 90s novel Fatherland. It is set in the 60s some 15 years after Hitler won the war. Our president, Joseph Kennedy is trying to come to some peace with NAZI dominated Europe. Meanwhile a murder investigation is occurring which jeopardizes the peace talks because it may reveal publicly and officially the worst kept secret of the Reich, the extermination of the Jews.

#51 | Posted by Grendel at 2014-02-24 09:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thanks for the suggestion, Grendel. It sounds interesting. Joseph Kennedy as in Jr. who got killed in WWII?

My best friend Eric bought Iron Dream for me for Christmas in the mid '80s or so after I mentioned seeing it in a magazine. I remember then it cost $100. I wouldn't sell it (for one reason, Eric is dead now) but you have me curious what it's worth. I'm off to see if I can find something about it.

Just checked Fatherland on Amazon. Sadly, it's not on Kindle, but I may get it anyway. Damn one click buying!

#52 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-24 09:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Most of whom were killed by disease of which the carriers were not even aware.
So, "murdered" is just more drama.
#44 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2014-02-24 04:45 PM

Is that why they were giving them small pox blankets?

In that case, the Jews were just killed by gas leaks.

#53 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-02-24 09:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

But you just stepped into the all time classic of time traveler tales: The grandfather paradox.
#45 | POSTED BY GOATMAN AT 2014-02-24 04:45 PM

Is that where I bang my own grandmother and two generations later I'm born?

#54 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-02-24 09:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

"What amazes me is that you rarely hear anyone ask why HItler invaded Poland in the first place..."

Because he and Stalin agreed to it.
Ooops! I violated 'intellectual' history: Stalin did nothing wrong. It was ALL Hitler. Honest....

#55 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-02-24 10:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#55 | POSTED BY DIABLO

Was that meant to imply that there are Stalin apologists lurking about?

#56 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-24 10:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I violated 'intellectual' history: Stalin did nothing wrong"

You're such an insufferable ass. Were it not for academics, intellectuals, researchers, etc., you wouldn't have the written record regarding the soviet-nazi joint invasion, let alone this series of tubes on which to broadcast such objectively imbecilic opinions.

You do a lot better job impersonating a victim than someone who has a functioning brain.

#57 | Posted by Zarathustra at 2014-02-24 10:13 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Goatman,

I believe the President in the novel is Joseph Kennedy the father.

There was a television movie made of the book in the 90s. It was okay. Rutger Hauer was in it. The book was better--surprise, surprise.

#58 | Posted by Grendel at 2014-02-24 10:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

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