Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, February 23, 2014

Employees at Volkswagen's Chattanooga plant voted against representation by United Auto Workers, leaving the factory as the only Volkswagen plant worldwide without a formal mechanism for workers' representation. The German "co-determination" model mandates works councils, which connect employees to management, at all large German companies. Following the union vote, the head of Volkswagen's works council told German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung that the automaker would hesitate to expand in the U.S. South. "I can imagine fairly well that another VW factory in the United States, provided that one more should still be set up there, does not necessarily have to be assigned to the South again," said works council leader Bernd Osterloh.

Advertisement

Menu

Advertisement

Subscriptions

Author Info

oldwhiskeysour

 

Advertisement

MORE STORIES

 

Advertisement

More

No, no, no, cutting off your nose to spite your face was definitely a good thing. You look mahvelous darlings...(turns away, rolls eyes, smirks.)

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Oops.

#1 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-02-20 12:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ideology, 1. Facts, 0.

Another conservative win!

#2 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-20 01:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

"The German "co-determination" model mandates works councils, which connect employees to management, at all large German companies. Following the union vote, the head of Volkswagen's works council told German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung that the automaker would hesitate to expand in the U.S. South."

Of course it doesn't explain why "co-determination" with work councils can't occur without a union..... BECAUSE ITS AGAINST THE LAW....

Union laws are the problem......

#3 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-02-20 01:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hey OWS,
Do you know what is going on? Their union workers at other plants are threatening trouble if VW expands production in non union shops. That's extremely bad faith.

#4 | Posted by Huguenot at 2014-02-20 01:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Following the union vote, the head of Volkswagen's works council told German newspaper Sueddeutsche Zeitung that the automaker would hesitate to expand in the U.S. South."

I recommend Detroit...or perhaps Chicago. The unions have auto manufacture operating like well-oiled precision machines in those cities and the political environment there is outstanding. Never any union problems there either.

#5 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2014-02-20 01:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's extremely bad faith.

#4 | Posted by Huguenot

How is it any worse than US politicians promising VW will get no assistance if their employees go union? You seem to think that only one side should be able to play the game.

#6 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-02-20 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 5

"Do you know what is going on? Their union workers at other plants are threatening trouble if VW expands production in non union shops. That's extremely bad faith."

They are not threatening 'trouble'.

They are simply considering opening new plants outside of the South.

Senator Corker threatened VW and the VW employees.

Did you miss that part?

Was that 'bad faith'?

The enemy of my friend is my enemy.

Ever heard of that?

One man's 'bad faith' is another man's 'rules to live by'.

The law of unintended consequences has not been repealed.

Careful who you shove. You may get pushed back.

#7 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2014-02-20 01:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

It would depend on when Corker said that VW wouldn't get assistance. Was it before the plant was built or after. If it was after then yes, that is bad faith unless there were extenuating circumstances.

What people owe each other is full disclosure and due diligence. That's especially true in the business world. No one likes the carpet being pulled out from under them.

Conversely, the German unions would have owed it to management that they will not go along with any expansion in non union shops. They're a little spurious on that point though since the German union shops employ a sizable number of non union workers who work alongside the union workers.

#8 | Posted by Huguenot at 2014-02-20 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Another case of Republicans doing exactly what they preach against.

The government trying to pick winners and losers.

And then mucking it all up.

Nice Werk Pugs.

#9 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-02-20 04:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Ahhhh look at hugeknob trying to tap dance around Corker's bad faith threats.

Keep going Sammy Davis Jr.

#10 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-21 09:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

#1 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT
#2 | POSTED BY ZEROPOINTNRG

Really a crying shame you didn't have that card check rule. You could have forced unionization on those workers who are obviously too stupid to know what is right for themselves.

#11 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-02-21 10:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

"You could have forced unionization on those workers who are obviously too stupid to know what is right for themselves"

oh boy. here we go again. they voted for Obama after all, twice.

another 180 by the career tail chaser(s)

#12 | Posted by ChiefTutMoses at 2014-02-21 04:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Thes
They are expanding in china, world renowed for its unions.

#13 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2014-02-22 08:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Thes
They are expanding in china, world renowed for its unions."

More proof that right to work states can work cheaply enough that jobs will stop going overseas. Maybe if the workers offer to work for the Vietnamese minimum wage of $.27 per hour.

#14 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-23 09:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

Seems thatVW has forgotten the expensive lesson that the UAW gave them in PA in the 80's"...........or not. Can't blame their southern workforce for not wanting Chattanooga to become the next Detroit.

#15 | Posted by gtjr at 2014-02-23 10:48 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#14

No Danni,
It has to do with tariffs and cost to ship. The volume is high enough that it makes sense to build a plant there, just like the U.S.

#16 | Posted by gtjr at 2014-02-23 10:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

This sounds like discrimination to me. VW is not meeting our goals of diversity in the workplace(non union employees as well as union employees). Maybe we can help them out by banning all VW sales in the US until they have an equal amount of non union employees around the world.

#17 | Posted by mcmlcxx at 2014-02-23 11:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

The problem is that VW treats their employees BETTER than the union would treat them and we just can't have THAT happening!

I would find it interesting if they changed the laws to allow companies to have an "employee council" that had nothing to do with a union. The culture in Germany has changed and this company wants to work harmoniously with it's workers... why should workers have to pay some corrupt group of people for the RIGHT to be represented when they can very well do it themselves at no cost to their paycheck AND be paid more money than under the union contract.

And people are all shocked and shaken when employees tell the union to piss off? LOL I don't even understand why the politicians were giving them static about the union... the free market model that republicans claim to love would have other companies in the area having to raise their pay scale even more without the union than with.

#18 | Posted by captjimmyjames at 2014-02-23 02:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

The real shame in this story is that the US has laws that bar a company from doing the right thing and treating their employees with respect and dignity....

#19 | Posted by captjimmyjames at 2014-02-23 02:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yea, go to Detroit where things are really great. The unions have really done wonderful things there. LOL

#20 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-23 04:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Of course it doesn't explain why "co-determination" with work councils can't occur without a union..... BECAUSE ITS AGAINST THE LAW....

Union laws are the problem......

Seems someone doesn't understand the reason why either the German model (a tacit union) and the American NLRB mandates that employees must FIRST decide to collectively bargain as a union so that the employees elect or appoint a group of members to represent them to management. Without the structure of a union, there is no legal way for individuals to give up their precious liberty without usurping the same rights of their fellow workers.

At it's core, a union is nothing but a form of democracy that allows it's members to have a say in the conditions of their own employment as long as the management agrees and both bargain in good faith. Either employees should make their own self determinations and have no contract with their employer beyond whatever rules the employer demands at the point of hiring, or they can group together and work toward mutually beneficial outcomes through the contracts and structure of a union, defining their rights and responsibilities just like the contracted executives who manage and run all these corporations.

Of course the anti-union forces would be against equality because equality comes with power, and a powerful workforce cannot be controlled by threats and intimidations and has actual law backing them up. Workers should be quiet and acquiescent, not proud and partners in the success of the business itself as VW's workers are the world over. That's the Republican way.

#21 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-02-23 08:14 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

At it's core, a union is nothing but a form of democracy that allows it's members to have a say...

As long as you approve of the "say", it would appear. Democracy happened. The employees said they didn't want a union.

Employees at Volkswagen's Chattanooga plant voted against representation by United Auto Workers
Isn't your point the employees should have what they want, or is your point, the employees should have what they want unless their desire is not be unionized?

My irony meter pegged on your statement.

That's the Republican way.

Actually according to the article, it's the employees' way. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean they shouldn't get what they voted for.

#22 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-23 08:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Way to go, Republican'ts. Shoot your constituents in the foot...again. Lucky for you TN conservatives are too stupid to feel the pain.

#23 | Posted by e1g1 at 2014-02-23 08:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Goatman...

Why do you find it necessary to build strawmen when nothing you talked about was stated by my words? Did you see the statement that I was addressing? Did it have anything to do with the outcome of the TN vote or did I criticize the workers for their decision?

My point was to address the reason why "work councils" first rely on the workers being represented by members they elect to do so, and that unions provide the only legal mechanism for doing so in the United States.

The Republicans in TN openly stated that they wouldn't pass incentives for VW if the workers voted to unionize and Sen. Corker stated that he had inside information that the plant would lose a new product line if the workers unionized. Turns out VW wants its workers to unionize so that they can implement the same business model that they use in Germany and other countries, and that the actual union in German, who has a say in VW's plans, will now vote against any further expansion in the US South.

I wasn't criticizing the workers, I was criticizing the politicians who apparently know more about VW's business than their partners do in Germany.

Any comments on that?

#24 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-02-23 08:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

HA! You guys will believe anything if it fits your retarded world view.

First of all, the HuffPo article blatantly lies:
"Employees at VW's Chattanooga plant voted against representation by United Auto Workers, leaving the factory as the only Volkswagen plant worldwide without a formal mechanism for workers' representation."

BUT>>>According to Reuters:
Chattanooga is VW's only factory in the U.S. and one of the company's few in the world without a works council.

But hey...the left never concerns themselves with overt dishonesty, so why not ask these folks...

The 7,000 people in Spartanburg, SC that make BMWs.
www.bmwusfactory.com

or...

The 14,000 people that are employed as a result of making KIAs in West Point, GA
www.kmmgusa.com

or...

the 5,500 people that have jobs related to manufacturing Hyundai's in Montgomery, AL
www.hmmausa.com

By the way...NONE OF THEM ARE UNION!!

BMW's Massive, Non-Union Plant Is Basically A Huge "Screw You" To Unions
Read more: www.businessinsider.com

Laid-off UAW workers galled that they can't get jobs at non-union Kia plant
www.mlive.com

Hyundai Teaches UAW Best Factory Job Doesn't Need a Union: Cars
www.bloomberg.com

BOOM!

Oh the brutality...

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHA!!!!!

Man...I'm sure you've missed me for the past 3 weeks.

#25 | Posted by justanoversight at 2014-02-23 08:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Republicans in TN openly stated that they wouldn't pass incentives for VW if the workers voted to unionize

Where did you read that? It's not in the featured article.

I wasn't criticizing the workers,

You were criticizing the "anti-union forces" when those "forces" are the workers themselves. It was they who voted down the union. You also talked about the union being a form of democracy as if the democratic process did not take place when it indeed did.

You know, maybe they work in a place that has great benefits and pay and they don't need a union. If a union tried to edge its way into the offshore drilling industry, they'd all vote the same for those reasons.

American companies don't go overseas and tell the workers they can or cant' organize. It's quite arrogant for a German company to come over here and try to do so.

#26 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-23 08:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Chattanooga is VW's only factory in the U.S. and one of the company's few in the world without a works council.

But hey...the left never concerns themselves with overt dishonesty, so why not ask these folks...

Do you realize that VW is not any of the other car manufacturers you link to, don't you?

Talk about "overt dishonesty"! When has anyone here made the argument that unionization HAS to be universal with US auto manufacturers?

BTW, do you realize that "work councils" demand worker representation by union and by your own quote the TN plant is one of the "few" VW has that isn't so represented? Do you think VW is trying to eliminate them or that they welcome their participation?

And no, no one has missed your ignorance but for your own ego.

#27 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-02-23 08:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh Tony...I just delivered a massive smack down to every lefty on this thread. Do you feel it?

I felt it.

#28 | Posted by justanoversight at 2014-02-23 09:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

You were criticizing the "anti-union forces" when those "forces" are the workers themselves. It was they who voted down the union.

I criticized the Republican politicians who injected themselves into the election (unlike any Democrat) by making threats that the NLRB will now decide whether or not violated US law. They may call for a second election if it's determined that the workers were persuaded by outside forces who in fact may have undermined the worker's own employment and future success based on what VW decides it wants to do, particularly if Corker turns out to have told a lie about the new product line.

And if you need further information, look up things you profess ignorance of. If you'd like attribution, click on my name and go through the recent archives over the pre-vote antics of the TN Republicans. All the stories, links and reporting are there on a thread I started weeks ago.

#29 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-02-23 09:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Tony...give it up. The vote to reject unions at this facility is not an aberration, it's the trend. America doesn't need or want unions. Deal.

#30 | Posted by justanoversight at 2014-02-23 09:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

I criticized the Republican politicians who injected themselves into the election (unlike any Democrat)

Yea, democrats would never inject themselves into union elections or business.

*rolls eyes*

#31 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-23 09:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Tony...give it up. The vote to reject unions at this facility is not an aberration, it's the trend. America doesn't need or want unions.

Indeed. All the folks in Chattanooga have to do is cast their eyes a few hundred miles to the north and ask themselves, "Do we want that to happen here?"

#32 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-23 09:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Indeed. All the folks in Chattanooga have to do is cast their eyes a few hundred miles to the north and ask themselves, "Do we want that to happen here?"

Why shouldn't they cast their eyes to Germany and see what the workers there make due to the representation of their union as it exists TODAY, not based on the mistakes of both management and workers past as happened in Detroit?

In 2010, Germany produced more than 5.5 million automobiles; the U.S produced 2.7 million. At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour. Yet Germany's big three car companies -- BMW, Daimler (Mercedes-Benz ), and Volkswagen -- are very profitable.

There are "two overlapping sets of institutions" in Germany that guarantee high wages and good working conditions for autoworkers. The first is IG Metall, the country's equivalent of the United Automobile Workers. Horst Mund, an IG Metall executive points out that goes "against all mainstream wisdom of the neo-liberals. We have strong unions, we have strong social security systems, we have high wages. So, if I believed what the neo-liberals are arguing, we would have to be bankrupt, but apparently this is not the case. Despite high wages . . . despite our possibility to influence companies, the economy is working well in Germany." www.forbes.com


You've yet to answer as to why VW decides that it prefers it's workers to be represented by unions and join in decisions through their works councils, and how the opinions of the TN workers who voted against unionizing (86 vote difference) should somehow be empowered against VW's own business model. I guess that's why the TN Republicans believe so strongly in letting businesses decide their own work conditions, except when they want a unionized workforce as VW does, to facilitate their global business.

#33 | Posted by tonyroma at 2014-02-23 09:26 PM | Reply | Flag:


Where did you read that? It's not in the featured article.

#26 | Posted by goatman

Tennessee legislators threaten to withhold incentives if VW workers choose UAW

#34 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-02-23 09:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hey lefties:

Have some eyeliner with that crush...

www.youtube.com

#35 | Posted by justanoversight at 2014-02-23 09:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

#25

Justanoversite

You forgot Toyota, Nissan, Honda, and Subaru plants that are not under the UAW thumb. The American union does not work to represent the hard working employee, they protect the deadbeat that wants to get paid, but does not want to work. Having been in the automobile business I have had to deal with this element, the UAW fosters minimum work for maximum pay, and you wonder why the automakers go offshore?

I know Tony Roma is a union lackey, and that is fine, just don't push the militant union attitude on us, NOBODY in business has time for it. Perhaps if the union movement required its members to give 8 hours work for 8 hours pay, and stopped supporting them when they deviate from the norm they might have a chance to be viable. Never going to happen in this lifetime, or until the U.S. collapses and the whole employee/employer relationship resets. Belive me that day is coming.

#36 | Posted by gtjr at 2014-02-23 10:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why shouldn't they cast their eyes to Germany and see what the workers there make due to the representation of their union as it exists TODAY

Um, because America is a better model for what happens in America than Germany is.

What do I win?

You've yet to answer as to why VW decides that it prefers it's workers

I think workers should decided what happens to the workers, not the company. I'm shocked that you, a (presumed) union man, thinks the company should decide instead of the workers themselves. If you think that VW should decide if the unions should exist or not, then you must be consistent and agree that Ford, GM, and Chrysler also have that right. You can't have it both ways.

#37 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-23 10:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

#33

Tony

You forget that even though the gross dollars are higher the standard of living is lower in Europe. Not a surprise that you would only give one side of the story. Nor would you tell about the unions working with rather than against the company like in the U.S. And then there is of course union's confiscation of dues to support the union bosses political beliefs.

Unfortunately unions in their curent form in the U.S. have outlived thier usefulness. It appears the workers recognize this but the unions do not.

#38 | Posted by gtjr at 2014-02-23 10:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

#38 -- good points and that's why I said that America is a better model for what happens in America than Germany is.

#39 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-23 10:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

"At it's core, a union is nothing but a form of democracy that allows it's members to have a say in the conditions of their own employment as long as the management agrees and both bargain in good faith"

I agree totally, Tony.
The problem I have is the union, rather than represent its members, supports anti-business hence anti-jobs candidates. Unions are supporting abortion. Why? Did they poll their members first and then represent them on this issue? No.
Unions push for Obamacare and will see their members shoved on to that second rate coverage. Did they poll their members before supporting it? No.
I remain convinced the Hostess bakery rank and file got sold out by their union. Twinkies are back on the shelves. The union members lost their jobs. Smells like payoff to me.

#40 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-02-24 02:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Unfortunately unions in their curent form in the U.S. have outlived thier usefulness. It appears the workers recognize this but the unions do not.

#38 | Posted by gtjr

garbage.

If the Pugs had stayed out of it and not flagrantly interfered and threatened the workers it is highly likely they would have choose to unionize.

"The Republicans threatened that the state of Tennessee would withdraw incentives for Volkswagen if the UAW was voted in."

www.latimes.com

#41 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-02-24 03:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

...chose...

#42 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-02-24 03:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Peoples car" refuse to go electric, going South would be appropriate.

#43 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-02-24 04:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Advertisement

Post a comment

Comments are closed for this entry.

Home | Breaking News | Comments | User Blogs | Stats | Back Page | RSS Feed | RSS Spec | DMCA Compliance | Privacy | Copyright 2014 World Readable

 

Advertisement

Drudge Retort