Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, February 22, 2014

Dear Abby: My husband and I relocated to Florida a little over a year ago and were quickly welcomed into our new neighbors' social whirl. Two couples in the neighborhood are gay. While they are nice enough, my husband and I did not include them when it was our turn to host because we do not approve of their lifestyle choices. Since then, we have been excluded from neighborhood gatherings, and someone even suggested that we are bigots!

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Abby's response: [R]egardless of what you were told in your previous community, a person's sexual orientation isn't a "lifestyle choice." Gay people don't choose to be gay; they are born that way. They can't change being gay any more than you can change being heterosexual.

I find it interesting that you are unwilling to reciprocate the hospitality of people who welcomed you and opened their homes to you, and yet complain because you are receiving similar treatment.

From where I sit, you may have chosen the wrong place to live because it appears you would be happier in a less integrated neighborhood surrounded by people who think the way you do. But if you interact only with people like yourselves, you will have missed a chance for growth, which is what you have been offered here. Please don't blow it.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

"and someone even suggested that we are bigots!"

In the words of Ralph Lawler...."BINGO!"

www.youtube.com

#1 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-02-20 09:59 AM | Reply | Flag:

Dear Abby was a coward for not affirming that they are bigots.

#2 | Posted by sully at 2014-02-20 10:15 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Obligatory. John Prine.(The verse that from "Noise Maker" was printed in Abby's column without a hint of acknowledgement of the song.)

Dear Abby, Dear Abby ...
My feet are too long
My hair's falling out and my rights are all wrong
My friends they all tell me that I've no friends at all
Won't you write me a letter, Won't you give me a call
Signed Bewildered

Bewildered, Bewildered...

Chorus:
You have no complaint
You are what your are and you ain't what you ain't
So listen up Buster, and listen up good
Stop wishing for bad luck and knocking on wood

Dear Abby, Dear Abby...
My fountain pen leaks
My wife hollers at me and my kids are all freaks
Every side I get up on is the wrong side of bed
If it weren't so expensive I'd wish I were dead
Signed Unhappy

Unhappy, Unhappy...

Repeat Chorus

Dear Abby, Dear Abby...
You won't believe this
But my stomach makes noises whenever I kiss
My girlfriend tells me It's all in my head
But my stomach tells me to write you instead
Signed Noise-maker

Noise-maker, Noise-maker

Repeat Chorus

Dear Abby, Dear Abby...
Well I never thought
That me and my girlfriend would ever get caught
We were sitting in the back seat just shooting the breeze
With her hair up in curlers and her pants to her knees
Signed Just Married

Just Married, Just Married...

#3 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2014-02-20 11:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

One of my favorite lines is:

People who are gay are born that way; people who resent folks who are gay are making a life style choice.

#4 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2014-02-20 11:03 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Putting aside the whole "I'm a victim because people don't like my bigotry" aspect of this, the sense of entitlement of these people is still astonishing:

There's a neighborhood where everyone is friends and people take turns hosting get togethers. The neighbors welcome the new family into the group. And then these newcomers decide that they are going to exclude two of the famlies that were already part of this established circle of friends. And apparently, it is their expectation that all the other neighbors should just be cool with having their friends excluded by a couple of strangers. Then when people react predictably to strangers who are intentionally trying to stir up trouble, they play the victim as if everyone else is expected to play along with their BS.

Crazy stuff.

#5 | Posted by sully at 2014-02-20 03:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 5

Their logic is exceptionally retarded, even for the entitled homophobe crowd.

#6 | Posted by Nixon at 2014-02-20 04:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dear abby you aren't a scientist and likely wouldn't want to explain how identical twins can include a homosexual and a heterosexual because you're a PC coward.

#7 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 04:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dear Tor, you're not a scientist either. [...]

#8 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-02-20 05:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Actually Harry in a manner of speaking I am. [...]

#9 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 05:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

#7 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2014-02-20 04:35 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Didn't catch the whole section on epigenetics in biology, I see.

Twins are more likely to have the same orientation, btw. www.worldpolicy.newschool.edu

My first guess about the actual article was that it had to be trolling because no one could be that stupid as to do that then wonder why they were excluded.

#10 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-20 05:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

In a manner of speaking, I'm Mary Poppins.

#11 | Posted by madscientist at 2014-02-20 05:24 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

Sorry zero but I side with the NIH on this matter and I'm not amused by the madness of crowds.

#12 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 05:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

"more likely to have the same orientation"

Even your source agrees with me.

#13 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 05:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

#13 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2014-02-20 05:30 PM | FLAG:

Yes. More likely, not 100%, which suggests it is epigenetic in nature. Successive siblings are more likely to be as well. All of which says clearly that something seems to throw the genetic switch.

#14 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-20 05:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

What's suggested is that it's not like hair color, or handedness.

It may even be connected to what also causes schizophrenia.

#15 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 05:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Reach any further for that conflation you'll dislocate something.

Schizophrenia comes with structural changes to the brain and normally manifests at the end stage of youthful development. Compared to little or no structural changes in the brain of homosexuals. Homosexuality also develops ordinarily in line with puberty and the awakening of sexual attraction, as compared (again) to the generally later onset of schizophrenia.

#17 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-20 05:44 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Tor - Serious question: When you were a kid and at an age before boys/girls started noticing each other you never came across any effeminate little boys who affirmed that they are gay?

I can think of more than one kid who was picked on as a "sissy". Just treated horribly for being different and feminine. There is no way a child would make a choice to differentiate himself in this way and suffer the constant abuse. And then you find out years later that the guy is gay and you're like "That makes sense, we knew he was gay when he was eight years old even though we didn't fully understand what that meant...."

I guess its possible not to have had this experience if you grew up in a very small town without many kids around. But otherwise I don't see how you could deny that there are people who are obviously gay before they even udnerstand what that is.

#18 | Posted by Sully at 2014-02-20 05:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Please don't blow it."

Nice touch.

#19 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-02-20 05:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

"you never came across any effeminate little boys who affirmed that they are gay?"

?????

No.

#21 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 05:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

But zero what causes Schizophrenia?

And more disturbingly if it proves to be strictly genetic shall we stop treating i?

#22 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 06:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

?????

No.

#21 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 05:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

I meant to say that the later affirmed they are gay, which is pretty obvious if you actually read the rest of my post.

Anyway, that would make your experience atypical. The most obvious example in my town was a guy who ended up being our class valedictorian. When he came out everyone was like "No crap".

#23 | Posted by Sully at 2014-02-20 06:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

And more disturbingly if it proves to be strictly genetic shall we stop treating i?
#22 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2014-02-20 06:01 PM | FLAG:

Seriously? Would you have us stop treating porphyria, cystic fibrosis, and early onset Alzheimer's as well?

Schizophrenia greatly impairs the quality of life from those who suffer from it.

dis·ease
diˈzēz/Submit
noun
noun: disease; plural noun: diseases; noun: dis-ease; plural noun: dis-eases
1.
a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, esp. one that produces specific signs or symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury.
"bacterial meningitis is a rare disease"
synonyms: illness, sickness, ill health; More
a particular quality, habit, or disposition regarded as adversely affecting a person or group of people.
"departmental administration has often led to the dread disease of departmentalitis"
Origin

Middle English (in the sense ‘lack of ease; inconvenience'): from Old French desaise ‘lack of ease,' from des- (expressing reversal) + aise ‘ease.'

Under that definition, schizophrenia is a disorder of brain function. Sexual orientation being more akin to handedness. Again. Too much conflation in your arguments.

#24 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-20 06:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I meant to say that the later affirmed they are gay"

I don't keep up with almost anyone from back then really.

Still I have heard confirmation of what everyone suspected of some drama club kids.

#25 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 06:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Schizophrenia greatly impairs the quality of life from those who suffer from it."

I know some gay people whom I really do believe would change their sexuality if they could.

But would society let them if it was changeable via say medication?

#26 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 06:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Abbey is still alive?!? How old is that maven, anyway?

#27 | Posted by goatman at 2014-02-20 06:32 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

I just realized the couple in question may have visited the gay couples home for these gathers.

If that's the case it really is rude of them not to invite them in and I'm left wondering if these idiots were invented by Abby.

#28 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 06:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

I know some gay people whom I really do believe would change their sexuality if they could.
But would society let them if it was changeable via say medication?
#26 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2014-02-20 06:29 PM | FLAG:

I think it's more important to fix society's problems with being judgmental, homophobic, and superstitious than to worry about changing orientation. And I know both. A very good friend of mine who is gay and probably would change it in a heartbeat. But he's middle aged, out of shape, single, and lonely, and the gay community is notoriously obsessed with looks. Society in general, unaccepting and cruel. If those things changed, would he still wish to? Meanwhile, another gay couple I know fit the stereotype of the well-off constantly vacationing, little family of dogs-owning flamboyant couple who have been together a decade now and seem far more committed than most hetero couples I know. I don't think they'd ever see a reason to change.

I don't have the answer on that, other than if it could be changed society would be a lot better if they viewed it more like changing your hair color than fixing some terrible disease.

#29 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-20 06:55 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I know some gay people whom I really do believe would change their sexuality if they could.
But would society let them if it was changeable via say medication?

#26 | POSTED BY TOR

Only if you take medication to change too

#30 | Posted by drewinnj at 2014-02-20 07:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

@ ZEROPOINTNRG

I try to send a christmas gift to a gay guy I went to Church with years ago because he's a nice guy and I fear he'll spend Christmas day alone.

#31 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 07:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

#26 | Posted by Tor

I know some black people whom I really do believe would change their skin color if they could.

But, would society let them if it was changeable via say medication?

#32 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-02-20 07:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

#26
I actually think that if it were changeable via chemistry, a number in society would try to force it on gay people. If it were changeable via drugs, it would even more than now be viewed as an aberration to be corrected by those who think that one old Jewish law is more relevant than all other old Jewish laws and modern nondiscrimination laws. If such an option were available, then I guess technically being gay would become a choice, one which I could see some people using to increase discriminatory practices and rhetoric.
But, in line with your statement, if this ever did become an available option, I would be one to try to dissuade my gay friends from seeking treatment.

#33 | Posted by blah at 2014-02-20 08:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

People who are gay are born that way....
#4 | POSTED BY OLDWHISKEYSOUR

Which would mean straight people are born that way as well.

Now for instance lets take a lady who works for me. She was married to her husband for over 20 years, now within the last 2 years she has divorced him and is now a lesbian living with lesbian partner #2.

Was she born lesbian and chose to act straight all those years with her husband or was she born straight and is now choosing to act lesbian?

Either way a choice on sexual orientation happened or is happening.

#34 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2014-02-20 08:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

"would society let them if it was changeable via say medication?"

Would there be any reason to stop them?

#35 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 08:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Was she born lesbian and chose to act straight all those years with her husband or was she born straight and is now choosing to act lesbian?"

Millions of gay people try their hardest to live up to the straight expectations of their family, friends and employers but many find the burden too much to bear at some point in their lives and feel the need to be who they really are. I know, it happened to me. I was a wife, a bride even. I tried to want to be straight even though I knew I had my doubts that it could be successful. The pressure to "be straight" is far more intense than you probably understand (though admittedly today things are changing very fast about that). To risk your relationships with your family, your freinds, your employers is pretty scarey. Gay men and lesbians (gay men face a much harder problem) do face discrimination in many places of employment whether or not you are ready to acknowledge the fact.

#36 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-20 08:44 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

"Was she born lesbian and chose to act straight all those years with her husband or was she born straight and is now choosing to act lesbian?"

And then there's the case of NYC's mayor's wife.

She describes herself as a lesbian before she met her husband.

#37 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 08:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

"She describes herself as a lesbian before she met her husband."

She should just probably acknowledge that she is bisexual. It's very common.

#38 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-20 08:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#36| POSTED BY DANNI

Perhaps for you.

She says she married her husband because she was in love with him. She says she was not gay when she married him, but over the years fell out of love with him and in love with a woman.

#39 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2014-02-20 08:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

#38 | POSTED BY DANNI AT 2014-02-20 08:50 PM | FLAG:

And yet that often meets derision in the gay community. People are people everywhere sadly. The world needs a lot less judgment about things that do not hurt others.

#40 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-20 08:54 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

I would be one to try to dissuade my gay friends from seeking treatment.

I wouldn't if they wanted it just like anything else it should be their choice and if they chose to take medication to become straight I would support them just as much as if they chose to stay gay. BTW really interesting hypothetical Tor.

Was she born lesbian and chose to act straight all those years with her husband or was she born straight and is now choosing to act lesbian?

Or perhaps she is bisexual? A lot of bisexual people will identify as gay or straight depending on who they are with because neither straight culture or gay culture is very accepting of bisexuals.

I have also read that for bisexual people the pendulum can swing as they age some start out mostly straight and become increasingly gay as they grow older and some start mostly gay and become increasingly straight. Some stay pretty constant through life.

#41 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-20 08:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

The world needs a lot less judgment about things that do not hurt others.

Amen brother, can I get a Hallelujah!

#42 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-20 08:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I wouldn't if they wanted it just like anything else it should be their choice and if they chose to take medication to become straight I would support them just as much as if they chose to stay gay. BTW really interesting hypothetical Tor."

Thanks Tao,

Since most of the gay community claims that their being gay is genetic and if they could change they would this theoretical situation may one day become a reality.

#43 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 09:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Since most of the gay community claims that their being gay is genetic and if they could change they would

Completely false premise.

#44 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-20 09:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"neither straight culture or gay culture is very accepting of bisexuals"

I think that's because some bisexuals could be better described as hedonists.

I find it cruel however that some people simply assume that to be true of all of then.

#45 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 09:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Completely false premise"

You've never heard anyone say anything like this in defense of homosexuals?

#46 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 09:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

As we further decode the genome and computing power makes ever more powerful drug design available, our or the next generation probably will have to work out the ethics of drugs that change orientation, skin color, possibly (hopefully) even aging. It's going to be an exciting and yet difficult time, I think.

#47 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-20 09:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think that's because some bisexuals could be better described as hedonists.

Not in my experience although they do have issues with relationships. It takes a very understanding person to be with someone who is bisexual.

The problem seems to be that they are too gay for straight people and gay people frequently accuse them of being in the closet or pretending to be straight.

#48 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-20 09:12 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

@ ZEROPOINTNRG

It will be very strange (and possibly amusing) if we discover there are different genetic causes for homosexuality and some can be fixed while other can't.

This can of worms will only get more insane if we discover some supposedly heterosexual people have these genes and some homosexual people have neither.

#49 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 09:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

"This can of worms will only get more insane if we discover some supposedly heterosexual people have these genes and some homosexual people have neither."

And then we'll grow up and realize that personal choice is enough to justify anyone's sexual identity and those who want to lock us into pre-ordained sexual roles can just go **** themselves.

#50 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-20 09:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

can just go **** themselves.

So now we have to accept selfsexuals too?

#51 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-20 09:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"pre-ordained sexual roles".....

Man I never even thought about those who would pick one(s?) for their kid(s).

And if it's not legal there will probably be a back ally genetic.....

This just keeps getting stranger.

#52 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 09:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Personally, I can't wait for it to be a choice. Switch teams. Catch some musicals. Stop hearing "I have a headache." No more gasps of relief at negative pregnancy tests. Fantastic choices in footwear and accessories. Lol

#53 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-20 09:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"And then we'll grow up and realize
that personal choice is enough to
justify anyone's sexual identity"

I couldn't agree more.

"those who want to lock us into pre-ordained sexual roles can just go ****
themselves."

Unfortunately Danni you are one of those people.

#50| POSTED BY DANNI

#54 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2014-02-20 09:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Personally, I can't wait for it to be a choice. Switch teams. Catch some musicals. Stop hearing "I have a headache." No more gasps of relief at negative pregnancy tests. Fantastic choices in footwear and accessories. Lol"

And when women at bars tell guys they're gay the men can say "don't worry honey I have a cure right here" and have an actual cure for a change.

#55 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 09:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

when women at bars tell guys they're gay the men can say "don't worry honey I have a cure right here".

Really? Thats a pickup line?

#56 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-02-20 10:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Really? Thats a pickup line?"

You've never heard a drunk saying stupider things than that?

#57 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 10:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

and I'm left wondering if these idiots were invented by Abby.

You really don't think there is a Christian couple so engrossed in their own belief system that they'd be this naive or foolish?

I wouldn't go so far as to call it entitled as much as sheltered.

This can of worms will only get more insane if we discover some supposedly heterosexual people have these genes and some homosexual people have neither.

We do have these/those genes. Everyone has the same set of genes.

The differences are in a large number of subtle (sometimes not so subtle) variables that effect the level the gene is expressed, what form it is ect ect.

And when women at bars tell guys they're gay the men can say "don't worry honey I have a cure right here" and have an actual cure for a change.

So you're saying instead of ruffies drinks will be spiked with straighties or something?

#58 | Posted by jpw at 2014-02-20 11:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So you're saying instead of ruffies drinks will be spiked with straighties or something?"

You people keep coming up with ideas like that and I'm gonna write a book.

#59 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-21 12:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

"You've never heard a drunk saying stupider things than that?"

#57 | POSTED BY TOR

I've seen you post stupider things than that...are you drunk?

#60 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-02-21 12:27 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

How do I funny flag just the newsworthy flags? Lol

#61 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-21 12:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

en vino veritas

#62 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-21 12:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

True

#63 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-21 12:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

codered 02/20/14 - 08:50 am
Abby Ignoring the Scientific Facts.
Although I normally agree with Abby's advice, it saddens me she isn't giving you the facts in this respect. No one is born as a homosexual or bisexual. It is a choice, sometimes a reaction. If being gay isn't a choice, then you are born that way. If you are born that way, then it's a gene. If it's a gene, then both the mother and the father had the gay phenotype with at least one being the dominant gene (sexual preference). And you want to convince me the dominant gay gene has been passed on thousands of years when they don't even have the urge to reproduce correctly? A gene with no desire to survive; think about that. Check your premises. Being gay is normally the result of childhood trauma or abuse, and being gay is a coping mechanism some turn to. Homosexuality doesn't even occur in the animal kingdom. Yes, some will mount each other, but it is to display dominance; there is no penetration occurring. It's a lifestyle that promotes abnormal behavior and an unhealthy lifestyle. It's your choice whether or not to include them.
There is no gay gene. No one is born that way.

WOW. This opinion gives incredible insight into the brains of social conservatives, confirming they believe nothing less than being "non-traumatized dominant reproductions". That notion is the gayest, most precious "survival gene" of all, imo.

#64 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-02-21 07:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Being gay is normally the result of childhood trauma or abuse, and being gay is a coping mechanism some turn to."

What a crock! Speak only for yourself because you don't know what you are talking about.

#65 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-21 08:05 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

If you are born that way, then it's a gene. If it's a gene, then both the mother and the father had the gay phenotype with at least one being the dominant gene (sexual preference). And you want to convince me the dominant gay gene has been passed on thousands of years when they don't even have the urge to reproduce correctly?

This person clearly has no clue about recessive genes.

#66 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-02-21 12:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Being gay is normally the result of childhood trauma or abuse, and being gay is a coping mechanism some turn to."

Who wrote that?

#67 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-21 07:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think I speak on behalf of all right-thinking Americans when I ask when will the oppression of the poor, defenseless, ignorant, moronic, hate-filled bigots end???

#68 | Posted by censored at 2014-02-22 09:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I think I speak on behalf of all right-thinking Americans when I ask when will the oppression of the poor, defenseless, ignorant, moronic, hate-filled bigots end???"

When they imprison all critics of liberals, I guess.

#69 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-02-23 04:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

Dear Abby,
Nobody is born gay .

#70 | Posted by Huguenot at 2014-02-23 10:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

Gays are not born that way

Lie much?

The stupid were certainly born that way.

#72 | Posted by Zatoichi at 2014-02-23 11:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sexual orientation is a persons choice. Just like any other action a person takes in life its a choice. There are numerous examples in sexuality which can be proven by enviroment but none have been proven by genetics.

last born males
girls raped by incest
males with no dad and overbearing mom

There is no gene that makes people gay. If so every gay person would have to have it.

#73 | Posted by mcmlcxx at 2014-02-23 11:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

Zatoichi can you prove gays are born that way? List your evidence since you claim to be a scientist.

#74 | Posted by mcmlcxx at 2014-02-23 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

#74 | POSTED BY MCMLCXX AT 2014-02-23 12:00 PM | FLAG: Just chose to be straight recently. Still angry about not getting laid now.

#75 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-23 12:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Are gay people born that way? Maybe so.

Sergey Gavrilets, a NIMBioS researcher and an author on the paper that outlines the new theory of homosexuality, published in The Quarterly Review of Biology says, "It's not genetics. It's not DNA. It's not pieces of DNA. It's epigenetics. The hypothesis we put forward is based on epigenetic marks".

To be specific, the new theory suggests that homosexuality is caused by epigenetic marks, or "epi-marks," related to sensitivity to hormones in the womb. These are compounds that sit on DNA and regulate how active, or inactive certain genes are, and also control when during development these genes are most prolific. Gavrilets and his colleagues believe that gene expression may regulate how a fetus responds to testosterone, the all-important male sex hormone. They further argue that epi-marks may help to buffer a female fetus from high levels of testosterone by suppressing receptors that respond to testosterone, for example, (thus ensuring normal fetal development even in the presence of a lot of testosterone) or to buffer a male fetus from low levels of testosterone by upregulating receptors that bind to the hormone (ensuring normal fetal development even in the absence of high levels of testosterone). Normally, these epi-marks are erased after they are activated, but if those marks are passed down to the next generation, the same epi-marks that protected a man in utero may cause oversensitivity to testosterone among his daughters, and the epi-marks that protected a woman in utero may lead to undersensitivity to testosterone among her sons.

#76 | Posted by BGMacaw at 2014-02-23 02:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Apparently they attended more than 1 social event hosted by various couples and families before all this happened.

You'd think in the name of consistency they would have declined such invitations once they realized gay couples were also being invited.

For me, there lies the problem.

Indeed, they have every right to invite who they please. They just shouldn't have waited until it was their turn to make a stand.

Perhaps a secondary group could have formed of more like minded people that wouldn't have had to function at the exclusion of the primary group.

But people being how they are, "love me, love my friends, hate my enemies", I don't give them much chance now.

Like one poster on here said, we're all bigots in our own way. You just get away with it more when you form groups that in are in control.

#77 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2014-02-23 03:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

I love how the couple that excludes others are hurt because they're being excluded. They want tolerance for religious beliefs that make them intolerant of others. It must be a terrible cross to bear for them to live in a neighborhood where gay couples are accepted socially.

#78 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-23 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

MCM,

"Sexual orientation is a persons choice. Just like any other action a person takes in life its a choice. There are numerous examples in sexuality which can be proven by enviroment but none have been proven by genetics.
last born males
girls raped by incest
males with no dad and overbearing mom"

You contradict yourself. While I agree that there are some common life events running through much of the gay population such as weak or nonexistent fathers with overly protective or demanding mothers, you then go on to say it is a persons choice.

Don't you realize it was the parents choice how to treat their children and the person who grows up gay and doesn't make the choice?

We were kids when all this occurred and we had no control over it.

That being said, I personally think none of this happens in a vacuum. There may also be a genetic component that creates the perfect storm, so to speak.

I've read enough over the years to be absolutely convinced there is a significant environmental factor involved because a LOT of gay people have similar childhoods.

I've always said, if your kids grow up gay, don't be too hard on them.

You probably had something to do with it.

#79 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2014-02-23 04:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Either way a choice on sexual orientation happened or is happening.
#34 | POSTED BY TXLIBERTARIAN

She was born bi-sexual, that's all. Not too difficult to figure out. That's the only way these folks have a choice - when they are attracted to BOTH sexes. Don't you understand that there are some people who are asexual? They don't find either sex attractive, hence they don't have sex.

It's not so black and white as many on the pro-gray marriage or anti-gay marriage debate would have you believe.

#80 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-23 04:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rcade,

"It must be a terrible cross to bear for them to live in a neighborhood where gay couples are accepted socially."

As a Christian, sometimes the thing you should do is show the loving face of Christ.

They should have opened their home to the gay couples like, in my opinion, Jesus would have done.

It's not so they can come across as magnanimous, but instead as equals who are sinners too.

But they still have every right to their own opinions and should be able to form a secondary group of people who are willing to participate in more than one group without fear of the...dare I say...Gay Gestapo.

#81 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2014-02-23 04:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

#81 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

What happens if the family finds out that there are not any others who share their perspective in this matter?

#82 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-23 04:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sexual orientation is a persons choice.

Prove it. Go have sex with someone of the same gender and report back to us.

#83 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-23 04:21 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Rsty,

"What happens if the family finds out that there are not any others who share their perspective in this matter?"

Well...eat alone.

They might should have researched the area more before moving there.

#85 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2014-02-23 04:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

The sheer ignorance of the "orientation is a choice" group outright baffles me. If society actually didn't have its prudish puritanical hangups, maybe they would have a leg to stand on. In reality though, who would choose to take on the kind of discrimination, ignorance, and hate gays have to face, not to mention the issues of those who are attracted to the same sex, but want children and families?

The second part being that every person who claims gays had a choice must be bisexual themselves. I never made a choice to be straight. Somewhere along the way, women simply became very distracting. It took no thought.

#86 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-02-23 04:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

They might should have researched the area more before moving there.
#85 | POSTED BY BILLJOHNSON

Agreed. In my perspective, they have three choices. Either learn to tolerate the other families and attempt reconciliation. Or leave the area for a place more in line with their beliefs. Or, as you said, eat alone. Two of the choices are really only viable, it seems. Eating alone not being one of them. Being ostracized by the community in which you chose to live is intolerable, IMO, as it seems antithetical to human nature.

#87 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-23 04:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sexual orientation is a persons choice. Just like any other action a person takes in life its a choice. There are numerous examples in sexuality which can be proven by enviroment but none have been proven by genetics.
last born males
girls raped by incest
males with no dad and overbearing mom
#73 | Posted by mcmlcxx at 2014-02-23 11:58 AM |

First of all, none of the examples you gave are a likely to have been a choice.

In any event, orientation is not a choice, activity is a choice. An admittedly imperfect I have made before is my preference for salt. I love salt! I am not ashamed of it but I did not choose to love salt. I could probably make due without salt if push came to shove, or someone were going to torture me for it, but what kind of sick puppy would want me to stop enjoying myself when it comes at no one else's expense?

We all have non-volitional preferences that differ from others regarding any number of aspects of our lives, ranging from sexual techniques, to tickle spots, to music to foods. Why should our choice in sexual partners (orientation) not be subject to a similar uncontrolled preference?

#88 | Posted by censored at 2014-02-23 04:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't think the couple could find an area in Florida where they could count on people being socially intolerant of gay neighbors.

I live in a conservative Christian Republican part of the state with lots of retirees. We have several gay couples and in 17 years I've never heard anyone express social disapproval of them. This ain't the '50s.

#89 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-23 04:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

umm ... "imperfect"="imperfect example". The irony is profound.

#90 | Posted by censored at 2014-02-23 04:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Posted by BillJohnson

I've always said, if your kids grow up gay, don't be too hard on them.
You probably had something to do with it.

Simply brilliant.

#91 | Posted by BGMacaw at 2014-02-23 04:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rcade,

"We have several gay couples and in 17 years I've never heard anyone express social disapproval of them. This ain't the '50s."

You're right.

Things are nothing like the 50's.

Just look at Russia.

It's no longer run by a dictator.

Everyone feels free to speak their mind.

Nothing like that bad ole 50's.

#92 | Posted by BillJohnson at 2014-02-23 06:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

It doesn't matter whether homosexuality is genetic or environmental. [...] The constitutional mandate to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" renders the issue irrelevant. Accordingly, EVERYONE is entitled by our constitution to get their rocks off any way they choose. But, minors still need protection from adults, heterosexual or otherwise.

#93 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-23 09:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sexual orientation is a persons choice.
#73 | Posted by mcmlcxx at 2014-02-23 11:58 AM |

Please tell me you exact moment you decided to be heterosexual. What sexual orientation were you before that?

#94 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-24 08:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

What an incredible and painful thread. Two informative summarizing posts, imo:

"would society let them if it was changeable via say medication?"
Would there be any reason to stop them?

#35 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-20 08:42 PM

"She describes herself as a lesbian before she met her husband."
She should just probably acknowledge that she is bisexual. It's very common.

#38 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-20 08:50 PMFlag: | Newsworthy 1

Consider that those two views above are both correct - which is the more important truth? That we are majority born with bisexuality built-in and imposed heterosexual normacy effectively changing the proportion of same-sex pairings through social engineering. This does not change the ratio of bisexuality, merely our attitude and behavior towards coupling.

Similarly, the desire to medically or otherwise "rectify" ourselves of that majority-born state is also a built-in mechanism with a distinct prerequisite - abeyance to our potential to also destroy ourselves. Similar to schizophrenia, we can see ourselves as normal although little of this desire to extinguish our very sexual nature is. In other words bisexuality ensures species survival, heterosexuality isn't the total description of our factual genetic lineage, merely the manifestation of any individuals genetic potential. Normacy has been hijacked by world religions for purposes of social division and exclusion, historical omission and control - often excusing the eradication of entire genetic lines, families and alternative thinkers.

Again, since bisexuality is the factual norm, heteronormacy manifests to imbalance our natural state. This does not imply that all people are attracted to both sexes, merely that prior to our neurological tendencies solidifying our sexuality we are all very much the same.

#95 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-02-24 03:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

If I hosted a neighborhood party, I would avoid inviting one couple that didn't get along with, or didn't like, another couple, regardless of the reason.

If you're the offended party, and I think your being offended lacks merit, then you don't get the invite, whether you're anti-gay, anti-gun, anti-Catholic, or whatever.

Especially if I prefer the company of the other couple.

You come to my place as my guest, kindly leave your baggage at your own house, thanks.

#96 | Posted by TheTom at 2014-02-24 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

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