Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Saturday, February 15, 2014

Tom Donohue, the CEO of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, writes in an op-ed that the U.S. needs more low-skill immigration because Americans are not "qualified" or "willing" to do such work. "Immigration can also address labor shortages in lesser-skilled fields where there are insufficient numbers of either qualified or willing U.S. workers to fill positions," he writes. "Many studies have concluded that the greatest percentage of job growth in the United States through 2020 is expected in low- and moderate-skilled jobs that cannot be automated or outsourced. Services like home health and nursing home care, landscaping and hospitality cannot be provided without capable staff ready to do the work."

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We have the Democrats framing amnesty and immigration reform as necessary, and the "Global" Chamber of Commerce pushing Republicans for the same, so is there any chance for American workers to expand its middle class for succeeding generations? Our President, the government, the so-called Party of the people, and the corporate interests all want cheap labor and potential votes ahead of serving Americans and making our economy more affluent. But then they've screwed Americans and sold out the country to China, Mexico etc for decades.

There should be a legal vehicle and a voter mandate that would put them all on trial for treason.

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This is the only reason why ----- will not allow a vote on immigration reform.

#1 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-15 09:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

Jail employers who hire illegal aliens. Problem solved. I'd also like to thank Donohue for proving what I have been saying about US Chamber of Commerce for years. They created the illegal alien problem to drive down wages and now they and the gOP want more of the same.

#2 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-15 11:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Oh heavens no! They are donors...er... job creaturs.

#3 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-15 12:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Agree... Penalized the people who hire illegal aliens.

If verification is a problem then fix it. They are itching to spend our money, spend it on a verification system.

The cheap labor provided by illegal immigration and shipping jobs over-seas has really hurt the middle-class in the US.

I get tired of the Dems saying they are for the middle-class yet do not want to do anything about illegal aliens and Repubs saying they are for the middle-class yet supporting the movement of jobs over-seas.

Would enjoy finding someone who agrees with me on both these.

#4 | Posted by sawdust at 2014-02-15 12:15 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Danni and 726 don't seem to get it...... they seem to think its one side that is at fault.

Sawdust correctly points out the solution.....

I would go one step further..... I would negotiate an increase in the minimum wage if we improved the verification system, and shut the border off cold first.

Go after CEO's and owners that hire illegals. The problem isn't the established companies, its in the construction industry that its more difficult to monitor. But this too can be solved with random inspections and if a worker runs the owners is fined worse than if illegal.

We need to remove the incentive to hire, and come here. That being said......

Why in the world would California have a bill to give medi-Cal to undocumented immigrants?
www.sacbee.com

#5 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-02-15 12:43 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Capitalists always want cheap labor. They love illegal immigration.

#6 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-02-15 01:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

They could just take those in prison and force them to do these low wage jobs to pay back the public for their crimes. Then what would happen to the amnesty crowd?

#7 | Posted by mcmlcxx at 2014-02-15 01:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

#5 I agree. Well stated.

We could have fixed illegal immigration 40 years ago just by prosecuting employers and by withholding taxpayer services. In other words, just enforce existing laws.

In case you haven't figured it out, the USA power structure was hijacked by certain self serving interests that are finely honed on enriching themselves, while outrageously counter to making America a more prosperous country.

The Parties will attempt to convince us it was about L/R politics. They are pushing smoke and mirrors, not facts. Both Parties were useful to divide us and play a role in our decline, while the wished for result was a less culturally unified and weakened American middle class.

The decline of the USA began in the 1960s with purposeful implementation of a series of events and strategies intended to create a festering, political, and cultural divide and goal that clearly failed to put Americans first.

The book on the decline of America could be written, but it would be deemed non-politically correct by those who played the biggest part.

#8 | Posted by Robson at 2014-02-15 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

I would go one step further..... I would negotiate an increase in the minimum wage if we improved the verification system, and shut the border off cold first.

#5 | Posted by AndreaMackris

I mostly agree with you, but..

If the verification system were improved and employers were penalized for hiring illegals, stronger border security wouldn't be necessary. Dry up the jobs and illegals will go home and stop coming.

As for jobs going overseas, your only going to fix that by rewarding companies for creating American Jobs.

#9 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-02-15 02:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Jail employers who hire illegal aliens. Problem solved. I'd also like to thank Donohue for proving what I have been saying about US Chamber of Commerce for years. They created the illegal alien problem to drive down wages and now they and the gOP want more of the same.

------

Yup. That is the fascist mindset. Build a wall.

#10 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-02-15 04:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why in the world would California have a bill to give medi-Cal to undocumented immigrants?
#5 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Well duh, Mackris.
It's to subsidize California agriculture which relies on undocumented workers.
Do you really not get that?

#11 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-02-15 04:39 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Every nation/state in the history of man has had an under/slave class.

And every nation/states autocrats distract the masses from their corruption by blaming that class for everything.

#12 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-02-15 04:54 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

We need to remove the incentive to hire, and come here.
#5 | Posted by AndreaMackris

We've removed the incentive to come here about as much as is humanly possible, by moving our factories overseas. The jobs undocumented workers come here to do are jobs that can't be done elsewhere. We'd have to end agriculture and construction to decrease demand any further.

#13 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-02-15 04:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ceo's like illegal immigrants for the low wages and safety standards they have to provide them.

#14 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-15 04:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

We've removed the incentive to come here about as much as is humanly possible, by moving our factories overseas. The jobs undocumented workers come here to do are jobs that can't be done elsewhere. We'd have to end agriculture and construction to decrease demand any further.

-----

Which is why the immigration issue is bull#$%#. Without a slave class the usa would collapse; and so would every other nation/state. see jews leaving egypt, etc.

#15 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-02-15 05:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

They would be willing to work if unemployment rules were changed so workers had to take what ever job was available not the same job you had. And if food stamp amounts were not so high.

People dont want to take the jobs available because they can make more not working off of HUD food stamps and other disability programs.

#16 | Posted by tmaster at 2014-02-15 06:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think he meant to say, "we need more sweat shops and slave labor."

#17 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-02-15 07:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Immigration can also address labor shortages in lesser-skilled fields where there are insufficient numbers of [...]willing U.S. workers to fill positions,"

Gawd forbid that the supply of willing workers be increased by offering Americans more money to work those jobs. As usual, the law of supply and demand is only cited by our ruling class when they stand to make a buck off of it.

#18 | Posted by censored at 2014-02-15 09:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

If companies can't find talent on U.S. soil, or if it becomes too costly and burdensome, they will move their operations elsewhere.

Fine. Then deny them access to US markets and certainly don't give them tax breaks to offshore the jobs!!!

#19 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2014-02-16 06:25 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Capitalists always want cheap labor. They love illegal immigration. - null

Not true, I am a capitalist and I do not like illegal immigration. Therefore, you are wrong. Insisting on broad generalizations is part of the reason why this country is so polarized that it can't make any good decisions concerning its future.

#20 | Posted by danv at 2014-02-16 09:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

People dont want to take the jobs available because they can make more not working off of HUD food stamps and other disability programs.

Says something pretty significant about low wage jobs huh?

#21 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-16 10:19 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

My brand of conservatism:

I am sick and tired of all these minimum wage workers qualifying for gov't handouts. The minimum wage should be set at a high enough level so that if you work a 40 hr week, you won't qualify for hand outs.

Also, I am tired of the wealthy paying the bulk of the income taxes. More people should be making more money so that they can pay more in income taxes.

#22 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2014-02-16 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

"The minimum wage should be set at a high enough level so that if you work a 40 hr week, you won't qualify for hand outs."

are you serious?

#23 | Posted by eberly at 2014-02-16 11:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Capitalists always want cheap labor. They love illegal immigration."

Mobility of labor and capital are pillars of the free market.

I don't know that can be a proponent of the free market and not be a proponent of labor mobility.

There are good reasons for keeping a secure border, but I don't think economics is one of them.

"Also, I am tired of the wealthy paying the bulk of the income taxes. More people should be making more money so that they can pay more in income taxes."

Did you read the article. I found this to be the most interesting part. It speaks VOLUMES about current ----- state of affairs. And I see nothing to suggest it's going to change anytime soon:

"Immigrants can help bridge a growing skills gap in science, technology, engineering and math - the so-called STEM fields that are vital to a modern, competitive economy.

More than half of the master's and doctoral students studying the natural sciences and engineering disciplines at U.S. colleges and universities are from foreign countries.

Meanwhile, the number of American students studying STEM disciplines is growing at less than 1 percent per year. By 2018, there will be 230,000 unfilled positions requiring advanced STEM degrees, even if every U.S. STEM grad finds a job.

Many of our fastest-growing industries require advanced skills and higher education beyond a bachelor's degree - 22 percent of new job openings through 2020 will require at least a master's degree.

Among all 25- to 34-year-olds living in the United States, 10.6 percent of those with masters, professional or doctoral degrees are foreign born, compared with 8.5 percent of native-born young people."

It may be that someday soon, we'll need immigrants to come to the US, not to work in the fields, but to get the degrees that American students aren't.

#24 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-16 11:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Says something pretty significant about low wage jobs huh?"

Or about the lavish benefits that the government provides free of charge.

There's also a time value element here.

If the state provides me with the equivalent of $13 an hour in a standard workweek in benefits, at what wage rate do I actually take a job. If I make $14 an hour, it's really only like making $1 an hour. So, either I utilize 40 hours per week at a jobsite and collect and extra $40 per week, or I can not work, forego that $40, and spend my time doing something enjoyable. In fact, it's probably not until I can make $18-$19 per hour that I would even consider it. For some it would be less. For others more. But the point stands.

#25 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-16 11:59 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Actually Mad most benefit programs are tiered. If you are getting 13 an hour in benefits (highly unlikely) And you get a 14 an hour job you will still get about 5 an hour in benefits. It won't be until you hit 18 or 19 that you would loose benefits completely. I am assuming here you have the kind of household that would qualify for 13 an hour in benefits. For most the numbers would tip to nothing a lot sooner than 18 an hour but they wouldn't be getting 13 an hour in benefits.

#26 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-16 12:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

More of my brand of conservatism:

All voters should have a state issued id to vote.
States should assume ALL of the burdens and costs of the id. The voter should not be inconvenienced in any way. If a registered voter doesn't have a state issued id and they show up to vote, let the state issue an id at the polling place and make that id a permanent part of the voter's registration information.

The gov't should not get between a doctor and their patient.
That includes state government.

To many babies are being aborted.
There should be free birth control/condom for every woman/man of child bearing age.

People and institutions must be held accountable for their actions
If the state wants to force a woman to have a baby, the state should be held accountable for helping to raise that baby to become a fully functioning and productive member of society.

Health insurance should be sold across state lines
No problem here as long as the insurance commissioner of the state in which the policy is being sold has the authority to regulate ALL policies sold to residents of their state.

#27 | Posted by FedUpWithPols at 2014-02-16 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"If you are getting 13 an hour in benefits (highly unlikely) And you get a 14 an hour job you will still get about 5 an hour in benefits."

I'm not following.

First $13 could be any number. Highly dependent on where you live. in NYC, welfare benefits as they currently stand can easily add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars. In rural Texas, it would be far, far less.

#28 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-16 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

True I am basing my numbers on my own states benefits. What I am saying is that getting a job doesn't kick you off benefits. It will reduce the amount you get but you will still get some. So saying that going from 13 in benefits to 14 in wages is only a dollar increase is not accurate because you would not loose all benefits.

#29 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-16 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

in NYC, welfare benefits as they currently stand can easily add up to hundreds of thousands of dollars.
#28 | Posted by madbomber

Hundreds of thousands of dollars? I'd like to see that link.
Here's a question for you: Why don't you move to NYC and get in on that action?
Is it because you're dumb, or just lazy?
Or are there other reasons that keep you from moving there?
And could those reasons apply to people who don't move to North Dakota for oil jobs?

#30 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-02-16 05:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

It may be that someday soon, we'll need immigrants to come to the US, not to work in the fields, but to get the degrees that American students aren't.

#24 | Posted by madbomber

Maybe this isn't so pronounced in the flyover states, but we're already there. There's an estimated 650,000 foreigners working high-tech jobs on H-1B visas (source cis.org). Foreigners who join the US military are on a fast track to citizenship.

And this is of course purely anecdotal, but I'd guess about a third of the people in my master's program are not US citizens.

Oh, look, my anecdotal estimate was woefully low, www.insidehighered.com

It will come as no surprise to observers of graduate education that the report documents the fact that foreign students make up the majority of enrollments in U.S. graduate programs in many STEM fields, accounting for 70.3 percent of all full-time graduate students in electrical engineering, 63.2 percent in computer science, 60.4 percent in industrial engineering, and more than 50 percent in chemical, materials and mechanical engineering, as well as in economics (a non-STEM field). However, the report, which analyzes National Science Foundation enrollment data from 2010 by field and institution, also shows that these striking averages mask even higher proportions at many individual universities. For example, there are 36 graduate programs in electrical engineering where the proportion of international students exceeds 80 percent, including seven where it exceeds 90.

#31 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-02-16 05:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lets hear it for all the education will save the economy screwballs now.

#32 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-16 07:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

All the education in the world won't save your job when a robot can do it. Firefighting robots, airplane pilot robots, lifeguard robots, housecleaning robots. Then you get into general automation.

One study showed that 47% of all current jobs will be replaced with automation within 20 years.

#33 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-16 08:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Oh, look, my anecdotal estimate was woefully low"

If you're going to attend college, why major in a hard science. Then you have to study. Better to major in philosophy or art and not miss out on the party that college should be.

I always thought it was sort of ironic that the chicks going to school to get their MRS degree tended to flock to the fraternity guys. Where they should have been looking is the school of engineering. Unless they wanted to wind up married to a bartender.

"One study showed that 47% of all current jobs will be replaced with automation within 20 years."

Did you see the one where 25% of the jobs of 2020 haven't even been invented yet?

#34 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-16 09:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

Did you see the one where 25% of the jobs of 2020 haven't even been invented yet?

Yep so um 47% gone and 25% more coming. Still seems like a bit of a short fall no?

Yes a STEM degree is the only one likely to net you a job down the road. Fixing and inventing the automation that took everyone else's job. Unless of course the economy doesn't structurally change in which case not enough people will have money to spend to drive the economy.

#35 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-16 09:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It is both a right and a responsibility of a democratic society to manage immigration so that it serves the national interest."

- Barbara Jordan
www.utexas.edu

We've had a series of Congress's and Presidents that have failed to manage anything in the national interest. They've impoverished the USA.

That's why their approval levels are pathetic. The people are finally coming to the conclusion that the politicians, bankers, lobbyists, multi-national corporations, US Chamber of Commerce, etc are colluding against the national interest, just to campaign reelection money or to make a quick buck. They have the audacity too to convince young Americans to go out and fight and die for our freedom. The fictitious 4th estate - MSM is aiding and abetting these crooks too.

#36 | Posted by Robson at 2014-02-17 12:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

In Chile, they went down under the Pinochet regime and closed every economics department in the country that didn't teach their Chicago School theories. They assassinated labor leaders, they assassinated economists and professors, and had a continent wide terrorism campaign, Operation Condor, which killed tens of thousands of intellectuals. Then they gave one of the primary architects, Kissinger, the Peace Prize.

In American they gained control of the main refereed economic journals. And that means that in the United States, and Europe too, when you graduate with your PhD and want to go into teaching, you have to get promoted by being published in a refereed journal. But the referees are Chicago boys or Harvard neoliberals. They are ideological totalitarians. The free market boys realize that you cannot have a free market without having utter totalitarian control. That's what they've achieved. (Professor Hudson)

#37 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-17 08:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

The whole edifice of analysing the distinction between earned and unearned income, economic rent and profit, all this has been stripped away from the economic curriculum and does not appear in the economic journals. So, what you really have in academic economics is junk economics.

#38 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-17 08:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

Success is impoverishing the working class. The eurozone is an anti-labour, essentially, class war zone, and the banks are winning the class war. It's reduced wages by 30% It's caused mass unemployment, it's stripped away pensions, it's reduced laborers to poverty.

That's not failure. It's a victory if you're a banker and a financier and the "1%". This is the victory of the "1%" against the "99%".

#39 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-17 08:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Nutcase- the "skid greasers" for the financial elites are the consolidated MSM. Their story lines are straws in a hay stack excuses to discredit and villainize everyone but the organized perpetrators of this 40+ year economic war on most Americans. The ultimate intent is to expand poverty and reduce the political influence and wealth of the middle class. It is the educated and financially secure middle class which constrains the plutocrats, some of whom now own or manage the MSM.. Amnesty and immigration reform is another cog intended to benefit plutocrats.

The once independent MSM represented an institution that gave balance and defended economic fairness and freedom. Our current biased consolidated MSM and their diversionary propaganda presents a threat to both.

#40 | Posted by Robson at 2014-02-17 09:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Tom Donohue, the CEO of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, writes in an op-ed that the U.S. needs more low-skill immigration"

He is lying.

#41 | Posted by Sully at 2014-02-17 09:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

"In Chile, they went down under the Pinochet regime and closed every economics department in the country that didn't teach their Chicago School theories. They assassinated labor leaders, they assassinated economists and professors, and had a continent wide terrorism campaign, Operation Condor, which killed tens of thousands of intellectuals."

Huh?

Pinochet was a ------, but get real. About 3,000 people were killed, most of whom were communist militants. And it was a trucking union that put the final nail in the coffin of the Allende regime.

I think you might have your historical events mixed up.

"The free market boys realize that you cannot have a free market without having utter totalitarian control."

Normally you seem like a reasonable intelligent guy. Not today.

#42 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-17 12:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

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