Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, February 09, 2014

Meet the low-wage breadwinner. There were about 21 million of them in the United States in 2011, according to a forthcoming study by University of Massachusetts Boston economists Randy Albelda and Michael Carr. Unlike other studies which often focus just on low-wage workers, the researchers looked at those who also live in low-income households. This way, they were able to strip out the teenager making $8 an hour flipping burgers but still living comfortably with his parents. Or the mom who works a part-time job in retail to supplement her husband's otherwise ample salary.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Hey I've got an idea, lets open the borders so there are 10 to 15 million more low wage breadwinners.

#1 | Posted by paneocon at 2014-02-06 03:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

real question... how many are underemployed, and how many 'uttered' school is for losers when growing up?

I wonder what that percentage is.

#2 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2014-02-06 04:01 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"school is for losers"

It's the GOP who say that people don't need no book lernin.

#3 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-02-06 04:05 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

Not quite correct Bruce - they say you only need lernin from the good book.

#4 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2014-02-06 06:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

#2 | Posted by kwrx25 at 2014-02-06 04:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

So what is your point?

#5 | Posted by Sully at 2014-02-06 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

...funny how wingnuts think there is a never ending supply of high paying jobs if people just chose to get them...

...downright delusional....

...LOL...

#6 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2014-02-06 06:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's funny how leftwingers think you can sit on your a** and the high paying jobs are just going to land in their lap.
Delusional.

jobsearch.monster.com

More than 1,000 engineering jobs.

#7 | Posted by homerj at 2014-02-06 06:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

#1 | Posted by paneocon

45% of those have a criminal record. - www.ice.gov

#8 | Posted by KBM at 2014-02-06 06:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Millions of people without marketable skills.

#9 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-02-06 06:50 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Millions of people without marketable skills.
#9 | POSTED BY MSGT

You have to consider a sizable portion of them are simply underemployed. B. Hussein Obama's economic recover is anything but.

#10 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-06 06:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

The MSNBC crowd is out in force here. Speaking of MSNBC, they state that amnesty will be another jewel in Obama's crown.

#11 | Posted by KBM at 2014-02-06 07:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

"28 Signs That The Middle Class Is Heading Toward Extinction"
theeconomiccollapseblog.com

You say you want big government. Well somebody as to pay for it.

#12 | Posted by Ray at 2014-02-06 07:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

...yes, Homie, 1000 engineering jobs should cover all the people with engineering degrees who are out of work...

...or maybe not...

...thanks for playing, we will add a mark for you in the 'delusional winglnut' column...

...pardon the redundancy...

...LOL...

#13 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2014-02-06 08:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Millions of people without marketable skills."

...speak for yourself...

...LOL...

#14 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2014-02-06 08:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Anyone want to explain how open boarders and a "path to citizenship" helps this situation?

#15 | Posted by sawdust at 2014-02-06 08:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

This just shows that the state of the nation is destined for low wage and the grand scale of having a consumer economy isn't going so well because low wage earners don't consume.

#16 | Posted by moneywar at 2014-02-06 08:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh don't be silly Money I hear all the time about welfare queens with Cadillacs and iPhones the poor consume plenty.

#17 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-06 08:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

"school is for losers"

It's the GOP who say that people don't need no book lernin.

#3 | Posted by BruceBanner at 2014-02-06 04:05 PMFlag: | Newsworthy 2

Not quite correct Bruce - they say you only need lernin from the good book.

#4 | Posted by GalaxiePete at 2014-

I realize you both were just trying to be funny because you certainly can't be serious.

this is just another plank in the plan....MUST get as many low wage earners and make sure they become even more dependent on a liberal, euro socialist government with a banana republic two bit dictator....

now what was that nonsense from obama supporters about how he fights FOR the middle class??

#18 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-06 10:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

this is just another plank in the plan....MUST get as many low wage earners and make sure they become even more dependent on a liberal, euro socialist government
#18 | Posted by afkabl2

Good point.

I guess the business owners and job creators must be in favor of a liberal, euro socialist government.

Otherwise, they'd pay all their low wage earners a little more and spare them the indignity of having to rely on a a liberal, euro socialist government.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-02-07 01:42 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Hey I've got an idea, lets open the borders so there are 10 to 15 million more low wage breadwinners."

Good idea, as long as they are from Pakistan and the Middle East and think America is the spawn of satan.

#20 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-02-07 02:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

interesting take snoof...

but here is a more honest assessment of what dems are doing...dems are out to destroy what used to be called the 'american dream' and instead rely on millions of people to work just enough to where they can they earned the benefits and 'stuff' that OTHERS continue to work hard and supply the parasites with MORE 'stuff'..

nation.foxnews.com

#21 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-07 02:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

where they CAN SAY earned....

#22 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-07 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

OTHERS continue to work hard and supply the parasites with MORE 'stuff'..
nation.foxnews.com
#21 | Posted by afkabl2

Just so we're clear:
When you get your stuff, you're not a parasite.
It's everybody else who's getting stuff who's a parasite.

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-02-07 08:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Otherwise, they'd pay all their low wage earners a little more and spare them the indignity of having to rely on a a liberal, euro socialist government.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-02-07

sit down for this..

I can agree with this....but where will all that extra money go? oh I know...
studies about gay men in where was that again? doesn't matter, you get the point. pay them more but let them keep more. to bad that's not the way it works.

#24 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-09 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just so we're clear:
When you get your stuff, you're not a parasite.
It's everybody else who's getting stuff who's a parasite.

#23 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-02-07 0

to be clear...MY STUFF has been paid for from years and years of working and PAYING for it...from medicare..WHEN that happens to retirement...I pay a TON every month for health care and am about to pay even more for the TAKERS..people who will be happy to work HALF the time for the same thing I worked TONS of hours for, for well over 35 years. there is a definite and distinct difference.

#25 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-09 01:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

and YES !!! to be able to access that 'socialist' library that belongs to the county where I've been paying taxes to since 1967.

I threw that in just for some of you 'old timers'..

lol

#26 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-09 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

MSgt seems to be the only one here on the right track. Low wages are not a function of some grand conspiracy on the part of employers, nor can it be corrected by a government program. In fact, it's not so much a problem of low wages as it is a problem resulting from the scarcity of workers with the skills employers need, and a surplus of skills that are less valuable. MSgt Mentioned engineers, but it's not even restricted to those with college degrees. Having a six sigma blackbelt puts you in the $80-$90k range, as a starting salary.

For this paradigm to change is going to require a fundamental change in how workers position themselves in the workforce. At the end of the day, it's going to require workers getting those skills that naturally demand high wages. The jobs are there, they just lack people to fill them.

But if you want to control people, the best and easiest way is to make them dependent on you. Drug dealers know this. Parents know this. And progressives most certainly know this.

#27 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-09 04:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

madbum is full of you know what. There is a conspiracy to lower wages in the United States and its working. Union busting is part of it. Offshoring is another example, really labor arbitrage, pitting American workers against third world labor. Visa programs based on false claims of skilled worker shortages is another. There are law firms who specialize in explaining to US companies how they can bring in a foreign worker at half price, force the American to train them and then fire the American. These practices are the heart of the unemployment problem. Government is not the origination of these policies, but it does support them. All these wage savings go directly into the pockets of the 1%. They are loving it.

#28 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-09 06:31 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Welcome to Obamaville!
How to be poor in America.
1. Have children unwed before one is 18.
2. Get into the "system"- get convicted of a felony.
3. Become chemically dependent on any drug.
4. Go to state run schools.
5. Expect the government to take care of you.

#29 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-02-09 06:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

"How to be poor in America."

Lose you good paying job while you are in your fifties.
Have children unwed before one is 18 but don't even think about an abortion and hey, we all know that the folks preaching this crap practiced it....right????

Platitudes are what the right wants to give to millions working for minimum wage and the virtual accusation they are all either -----, druggies and illiterate. The right loves America but isn't too crazy about Americans

#30 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-09 06:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

"school is for losers"
It's the GOP who say that people don't need no book lernin.
#3 | POSTED BY BRUCEBANNER

How low is the Left going to go to get around the fact that their education system is flawed.

The Republicans want to make education better in this country. But you already knew that.

#31 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-09 07:11 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

The right loves America but isn't too crazy about Americans
#30 | POSTED BY DANNI

Actually, it's the Left who have done this to Americans. The "Education" system in this country is crap and it's the fault of the Left.

It would be better to allow kids from eighth grade on to choose what they want to do. Why can't they go for a skilled certification instead of lying to them that they are college material and then loaning the money to them, putting them in enormous debt for a degree that makes them nothing.

#32 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-09 07:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The Republicans want to make education better in this country."

By deregulating it?

#33 | Posted by Tor at 2014-02-09 07:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The Republicans want to make education better in this country."
By deregulating it?
#33 | POSTED BY TOR

Why is it regulated?

#34 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-09 07:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It would be better to allow kids from eighth grade on to choose what they want to do. Why can't they go for a skilled certification instead of lying to them that they are college material and then loaning the money to them, putting them in enormous debt for a degree that makes them nothing."

Gee, you want to bankrupt all those private schools selling degrees, certifications, etc.? Doesn't sound very Republican to me. Progressives fully embrace your basic idea but we just don't want some profit hungry corporation to suck up a large portion of what we taxpayers contribute to that end.

#35 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-09 07:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

#32

You really expect an 8th grader to have any idea what they want to do for the rest of their life? You think America is mostly comprised of Amish? That's hilarious!

#36 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-02-09 07:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

I have an ideal lets repeal Obamacare and min wage so they will be converted to full time workers. They would make more money and everyone would have a job

#37 | Posted by tmaster at 2014-02-09 07:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Gee, you want to bankrupt all those private schools selling degrees, certifications, etc.? Doesn't sound very Republican to me. Progressives fully embrace your basic idea but we just don't want some profit hungry corporation to suck up a large portion of what we taxpayers contribute to that end.

#35 | POSTED BY DANNI

Another lie Danni?

One word: Vouchers.

"Progressives" are against this idea. This would allow children to go to the school of their choice.

You are either lying or you have no clue about it.

When are you going to admit that the Democrats idea of running this country is a complete failure?

#38 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-09 07:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

#32
You really expect an 8th grader to have any idea what they want to do for the rest of their life? You think America is mostly comprised of Amish? That's hilarious!
#36 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT

Sure. It works in other countries and they are blowing us away in education.

Are you really ignorant of this fact? No wonder we are in trouble.

#39 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-09 07:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

"One word: Vouchers. "

YEah, a school of questionable quality which have never been proven to educate any better than public schools. But some folks want to take those funds away from public schools which are required by law to educate ALL of the children, the mentally handicapped, the one's with behavior problems, etc. Vouchers suck except for the upper middle class person who wants their kids to attend private school but is too cheap to pay for it. You want your kids in private school pay for it yourself.

#40 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-09 08:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't oppose the two track system which is practiced in some parts of Europe including Germany but if a student chooses the technical or blue collar track and attends school and training for that trade don't expect them to work for $12.00 per hour while the college educated receive much higher rates of pay. Accept it that some jobs while less demanding academically are very demanding in other ways and the compensation should be liewise.

#41 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-09 08:13 PM | Reply | Flag:


Sure. It works in other countries

#39 | Posted by LastAmerican

Link?

I am aware that other countries force children into vocations at any early age, but children generally don't get to choose for themselves at 13. I don't think you've been around many 8th graders. Thanks to puberty, that age is probably more disconnected from reality than any other age.

#42 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-02-09 08:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Germany, France, others.

You really are ignorant of this, aren't you.

#43 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-09 11:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

YEah, a school of questionable quality which have never been proven to educate any better than public schools. But some folks want to take those funds away from public schools which are required by law to educate ALL of the children, the mentally handicapped, the one's with behavior problems, etc. Vouchers suck except for the upper middle class person who wants their kids to attend private school but is too cheap to pay for it. You want your kids in private school pay for it yourself.
#40 | POSTED BY DANNI

Liar. You are making this up.

My children will be educated, but I feel bad for the less privileged who have no choice under your "Progressive" system. At least under the voucher system, the less privileged will have a chance at a career-Learn a trade.

Wrong again Danni.

#44 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-09 11:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

ccept it that some jobs while less demanding academically are very demanding in other ways and the compensation should be liewise.
#41 | POSTED BY DANNI

Sorry Danni, but just because you want it doesn't make it happen. When the skilled workforce wants to be paid more and work less, then companies go elsewhere. If you make the government force the companies to hire them, then the companies go away. Foreign companies come in.

Sorry, but that's the way it works.

If you raise the minimum wage to $15/hour, then McDonald's builds robots.

#45 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-09 11:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Education does not create a market position, no matter how good it is. Education feeds into a manufacturing base. The more we offshore manufacturing the fewer engineers we need. Its not that education is not a good thing, its that it will not solve our unemployment rate, trade imbalance or deficits. Those who pretend otherwise, including Obama, are full of you know what.

Attacks on teachers and their unions are just part of a larger conspiracy to lower US wages and enrich the 1%. The CEO of Phoenix Schools, providing useless degrees from student loans, is a billionaire. Those students have an extremely low hiring rate, because everyone knows they are not up to State University levels and the economy is in the tank.

LastA is delusional

#46 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-10 09:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

"madbum is full of you know what. There is a conspiracy to lower wages in the United States and its working."

Um, OK. Then it's a conspiracy that's easily defeated. BY getting a skill. Even then, your argument fails to explain the increasing wages for professional labor. If I were an employer, I would want to pay my engineers as little as my janitors. That's not happening.

"You really expect an 8th grader to have any idea what they want to do for the rest of their life? You think America is mostly comprised of Amish? That's hilarious!"

This is actually pretty common. In fact the decision is made much earlier than 8th grade. In Germany, children are "tracked" at ages 10-12, based on academic achievement up to that point. There are four different secondary education tracks where the child will be placed. The lowest is designed to provide a basic education, while the highest is intended to prepare kids for college.

"I don't oppose the two track system which is practiced in some parts of Europe including Germany but if a student chooses the technical or blue collar track and attends school and training for that trade don't expect them to work for $12.00 per hour while the college educated receive much higher rates of pay."

First, you can pay your employees whatever you want. As will I.

Second, you're stereotyping. A lot of modern "blue collar" jobs require high levels of training and skill. Auto mechanics for instance. And welders. If you're a welder in the Dakotas right now, you're making more than a lot of doctors do. Is it prestigious? Not really. You're not likely to impress the ladies as much by being a welder. But you'll be making far more than the philosophy major fratboys who will be serving your drinks.

#47 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-10 10:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Education does not create a market position, no matter how good it is. Education feeds into a manufacturing base. The more we offshore manufacturing the fewer engineers we need. Its not that education is not a good thing, its that it will not solve our unemployment rate, trade imbalance or deficits. Those who pretend otherwise, including Obama, are full of you know what."

Making statements like this leads me to believe you live in a bubble.

First, because there is still a glaring shortage of skilled labor in the US. Second, manufacturing has nothing to do with it. That's the easy part. It's the designing, marketing, and selling that require skill. Taken to it's logical conclusion, your argument would suggest that the most economically efficient market would be one where no segment of the production process, from the collection of raw materials to final output, occurred outside of the US. After all, if it's the manufacture that's important to the country, then wouldn't mining the ore or cutting the lumber be equally important?

#48 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-10 10:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

Germany, France, others.

#43 | Posted by LastAmerican

Once again, link?

If you raise the minimum wage to $15/hour, then McDonald's builds robots.

#45 | Posted by LastAmerican

Good! Their food already tastes like it was made by robots anyway.

#49 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-02-10 11:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

#46 | POSTED BY NUTCASE

There is nothing true in your statement. I can't even argue against it other than say that there's nothing true in it. How about instead of a fog-based retort, you address the facts in the argument.

#50 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-10 11:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

#49 | POSTED BY WHATSLEFT

You're ignorant because you are lazy.

#51 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-10 11:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

LastA,

John Sterling, founder of Phoenix on-line college is a billionaire. Some say he is worth $10 billion, others 1.2 billion. So much for your claims of nothing being true. 60 minutes did a story on him which picked up on, but anyone willing to invest 2 minutes can google the same information.

money.cnn.com

Here's one link (there are hundreds) for one law firm that will replace an American worker for half price.

www.myvisa.com

I don't have time to teach you the truth about the rest of your disclaimers. I guess when the truth doesn't fit your distorted reality a general disclaimer is an easy out.

#52 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-10 01:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Here's one link (there are hundreds) for one law firm that will replace an American worker for half price."

???

Did you even read the brochure? It's for H1-B Visas.

H1-Bs are used to employ high skilled laborers who aren't easily found in the US.

Also, while there is no mention of the employer being able to halve his labor cost, H1-Bs are issued for professionals who are going to make a lot of money regardless. So maybe they are replacing a doctor who had been making $500k a year with one making $250k. But I doubt it. And they're certainly not going to be in the low wage earner category.

#53 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-10 01:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

"John Sterling, founder of Phoenix on-line college is a billionaire. Some say he is worth $10 billion, others 1.2 billion. So much for your claims of nothing being true. 60 minutes did a story on him which picked up on, but anyone willing to invest 2 minutes can google the same information."

If he was a trillionaire, would it make a bit of difference?

You wouldn't by chance happen to be a trust fund kid, would you?

#54 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-10 01:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

When you are replacing an American worker with a foreign worker how do you conclude that there is a skilled worker shortage? These alleged shortages are just part of a pack of lies put out by the 1% in order to save money. The H1-B visa program is a fraud. But, Microsoft threatens to move to Canada if Congress doesn't approve these H1-B programs. I have seen an influx of Indian Doctors at the U of U, but the program is used largely to replace engineers and programmers at half price. The Indians and Chinese are happy to work for that rate, at least initially.

Sterling made his billions off the Phoenix school, which transforms into unmanageable debt for his graduates. In general for profit private schools are a rip-off. His is a prime example. They advertise heavily and use teams of high pressure sales personnel to recruit students with promises of non-existent jobs and expenses covered by student loans. Does that matter?

Jesus, if I were a trust fund baby, I would love the status quo, unless I had a conscience.

#55 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-10 02:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Vouchers suck except for the upper middle class person who wants their kids to attend private school but is too cheap to pay for it. You want your kids in private school pay for it yourself.

#40 | POSTED BY DANNI

Vouchers are all about the re-segregation of the schools. There's no way that vouchers can get all the kids in the ghetto into the schools that the suburbanites have their kids in. Not to mention that they don't provide transportation, which is critical to less affluent city-dwellers.

#56 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-10 06:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Vouchers are all about the re-segregation of the schools

In Louisiana blacks get more vouchers per capita then whites.

Vouchers are about choice.

#57 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-10 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, the whites who are already in those schools don't need vouchers, do they?

#58 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-10 06:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Vouchers suck except for the upper middle class person who wants their kids to attend private school but is too cheap to pay for it. You want your kids in private school pay for it yourself.

#40 | POSTED BY DANNI

You have no clue as to what you are talking about.

#59 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-10 06:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well, the whites who are already in those schools don't need vouchers, do they?

#58 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN

A portion of my tax dollars goes toward funding our school system.

Why should my choice be limited to the one public school that I zone into?

#60 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-10 06:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Because the decisions of a community can't be based on the personal preferences of each individual.

#61 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-10 06:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

Because the decisions of a community can't be based on the personal preferences of each individual.

#61 | POSTED BY WHODAMA

It is working just fine where it is in place.

The Dems don't like it because the public school teachers unions are threatened by the competition.

#62 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-10 06:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

It is working just fine where it is in place.

Bull****! They are not asking each individual household which school their children should attend and giving them unrestricted choice. That's logistically impossible to manage. If there is a decision being made, it's being made by a vote of a majority of something, be it a committee or a board or the citizens or it is a decision made by a dictator (call it a superintendent, or a commissioner, or whatever title you want to give it). If you think there is another way to make a decision other than majority vote or dictate by an "authority" please elaborate.

#63 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-10 07:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

"When you are replacing an American worker with a foreign worker how do you conclude that there is a skilled worker shortage?"

H1-Bs are not a mechanism to replace workers. They provide the capability to fill a job placement in the US when there is insufficient labor available locally.

Consider this: There was a job opening at Trinity Hospital in Minot ND for a radiologist. Starting salary was $575k per year, and they still had trouble filling the position. Now, as wages rise, so will the number of interested parties. And for $1m a year there would have likely been many takers. The problem is, those costs are passed on to consumers. And if consumers can get the same quality product for $575k, or even half of that, why should they be forced to pay more?

"Does that matter?"

Not a bit. No one forces someone to attend the University of Phoenix.

And I'm a little bit surprised at your outrage over someone willingly giving up their money for a good or service, yet apparently have no qualms about demanding that someone be forced to give up their earnings, while receiving nothing in return.

"Because the decisions of a community can't be based on the personal preferences of each individual."

Spoken like a true fascist.

#64 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-10 07:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The Dems don't like it because the public school teachers unions are threatened by the competition."

Not dems. Progressives.

Progressives correctly understand that the first step in controlling a population is to control the wealth. But getting the population to the point where they accept that requires indoctrination. And the best place to accomplish that goal is in school.

#65 | Posted by madbomber at 2014-02-10 07:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

Spoken like a true fascist.
#64 | POSTED BY MADBOMBER

Spoken like a true dictator. If a decision is to be made which affects the community (and by definition of a community there must be such decisions) how are they to be made? Since consensus (unanimity) is usually impossible to achieve, the only other choices are majority vote or an "authority" dictates the decision. Which is your preference? (and who gets to decide who the "authority" is?)

#66 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-10 07:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bull****! They are not asking each individual household which school their children should attend and giving them unrestricted choice. That's logistically impossible to manage.

I didn't say that's what they were doing.

Schools of choice have limitations. One, they can't feasibly provide transportation, WAY too much geography to cover. Two, demand often exceeds supply.

The first is handled by not providing busing. The second is handled by a lottery.

It's not perfect but it's a hell of a lot better (for the lottery winners) than forcing kids to stay in failing schools.

#67 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-10 07:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

f there is a decision being made, it's being made by a vote of a majority of something, be it a committee or a board or the citizens or it is a decision made by a dictator (call it a superintendent, or a commissioner, or whatever title you want to give it).

I don't disagree with that.

#68 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-10 07:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here's what I have a problem with:

The state of Louisiana has implemented a voucher system for its communities. Yet the racialist DOJ has seen fit to sue the state under antiquated racial de-segregation laws when the very people they are supposedly trying to protect happen to be the ones who view this voucher program most favorably.

#69 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-10 07:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

"And the best place to accomplish that goal is in school."

Gosh, you're on to us. Damn!

Someday you might consider the fact that we invented public schools here in America and we had them before our revolution and have had them ever since yet somehow our nation has endured in spite of our educated population.

#70 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-10 08:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

"It is working just fine where it is in place."

it works fine here where I live.

But I don't live in some of the cesspools some of the elites here claim are so much better.

no restrictions on where you want to send your kids to school. we have different districts but none of it matters. You're free to send them anywhere.

#71 | Posted by eberly at 2014-02-10 08:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

The first is handled by not providing busing. The second is handled by a lottery.

And who made those decisions?

#72 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-10 10:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

no restrictions on where you want to send your kids to school. we have different districts but none of it matters. You're free to send them anywhere.

#71 | POSTED BY EBERLY

That is a micro solution to a macro societal problem.

#73 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-10 10:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

And who made those decisions?

#72 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN

The state legislators crafted the law and its provisions and the state governor signed it into law. If the law didn't provide the flexibility needed to properly implement school choice then it went back to the legislators to make the necessary changes...and so on.

#74 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-10 10:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

...or, the law granted certain powers to the local school boards to implement this in a manner that they deemed effective.

#75 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-10 10:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

And all of those decisions were made "democratically" so where's the "we're not a democracy" part?

#76 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-10 10:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

And all of those decisions were made "democratically" so where's the "we're not a democracy" part?

#76 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN

Do you not understand the difference between a democracy and a Republic?

Democracy is pure majority rule.

A Republic consists of the Democratic vote for lawmakers and executives who then write and execute laws.

#77 | Posted by JeffJ at 2014-02-10 10:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

The problem here is that you are defining "democracy" as "referendum" where everybody votes on every issue. Nobody who refers to "our democracy" is talking about that. It still comes down, though to a majority vote of those representatives. This is where the problem comes in where the minority (party) is seeking to obstruct the majority (party) in spite of the outcome of an election.

#78 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-10 10:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

OK here we go again madbum,

You claim the H1-B program is not about replacing Americans with cheaper foreigners. This professor says otherwise:

heather.cs.ucdavis.edu

Here's another group of lawyers gaming the system:

lyrelyrepantzandfier.com

Here's the genius talking:

http://www.vdare.com/articles/ saving-the-rich-and-losing- the-economy-with-over-one- million-legal-immigrants- illegals-and-

So what if one radiologist position can't be filled in North Dakota. This is a chronic problem in rural areas. This has no statistical relevance to the widespread problem of H1-B legal abuse by employers. Its abuse because it the program is based on fraudulent claims of shortages. Instead of making stuff up that fits your view of reality, why don't you provide some valid links to your claims?

#79 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-10 11:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Most emphasis is on the lost manufacturing jobs. However, the high speed Internet has made it possible to offshore many professional service jobs, such as software engineering, Information Technology, research and design. Jobs that comprised ladders of upward mobility for US college graduates have been moved offshore, thus reducing the value to Americans of many university degrees. Unlike former times, today an increasing number of graduates return home to live with their parents as there are insufficient jobs to support their independent existence.

All the while, the US government allows in each year one million legal immigrants, an unknown number of illegal immigrants, and a large number of foreign workers on H-1B and L-1 work visas. In other words, the policies of the US government maximize the unemployment rate of American citizens.

Republican economists and politicians pretend that this is not the case and that unemployed Americans consist of people too lazy to work who game the welfare system. Republicans pretend that cutting unemployment benefits and social assistance will force "lazy people who are living off the taxpayers" to go to work.

#80 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-10 11:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

heather.cs.ucdavis.edu

full link

#81 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-10 11:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Republicans pretend that cutting unemployment benefits and social assistance will force "lazy people who are living off the taxpayers" to go to work."

Car jackings and holdups are work my friend.

#82 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-10 11:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

College graduates are less likely to lose their jobs than the less educated. However, once they do they are far more likely to join the ranks of the long term unemployed, especially if they are over 45. As long as unemployment has been in place the long term unemployed have ranged between 10-20%. Today that number stands at 36%. What do Rethugs do? Declare these people lazy and cut long term unemployment insurance. The actual inflation rate, unemployment rate, foolishly falling deficit, failures of military adventurism, inherent instability in supply and demand, and the science of evolution and climate change mean nothing to these witless class warriors.

Madbum and LastA don't even bother to back up their lame declarations. If they even tried most of it would be linked to error ridden bad science like "Growth in a Time of Debt," by the Harvard economists Carmen Reinhart and Kenneth Rogoff, who acquired magical status in the debate over economic policy, yet proved to be incapable of doing their arithmetic correctly. Their findings are false and Rethug strategy of austerity is a losing proposition for the entire country. Truth has a well known Liberal bias.

#83 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-11 07:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

It's funny how leftwingers think you can sit on your a** and the high paying jobs are just going to land in their lap.
Delusional.
jobsearch.monster.com
More than 1,000 engineering jobs.

#7 | POSTED BY HOMERJ AT 2014-02-06 06:40 PM | FLAG: TALK ABOUT DELUSIONAL

For someone getting all up in people's grill about how simple getting a job is because of something you read on a job search engine you really need to get a grip on reality.

Ya see your comment is both ironic and stupid. You are on one hand saying that there are all these unfilled jobs available during the Obama administration... but the Obama administration isn't business friendly. But it is Obama's fault that unemployment is so high because all those liberals are sitting at home living off welfare and food stamps rather than take to high wage engineering jobs advertised in Monster.

I bet you think its only liberals having a difficult time finding jobs. Or only liberals chose not to seek and education when in fact the statistics show differently.

Monster.com is dying on the vine because it is mostly bogus. It was great when there were lots of jobs and low unemployment . Monster is not a head hunting site and probably gets most of its listings via Craigslists and newspaper ads. Most of its listings are outdated and are little more than bait and switch links taking people to "job leads for pay" site or Simply Hired or any number of other cyber loops where resumes are deposited into the ethers... and the job seeker inundated with email spam for "pay for job leads" and resume writing services. If they go for the okie doke will be delivered a boiler plate resume not much different that the one they sent, followed by lists of non existent jobs fluffing up a stale list. On the positive side for you their bank accounts will be a couple hundred dollars lighter and some CEO will get your pity for being so put out by the recent tax hikes.

Monster.com is like so many of the web sites... just another black hole to deposit resume where it will be computer scanned for tag lines and disposed of never to be seen by a real person. It is not a place where employers clamor to list their job.

Monster.com is pink slipping their work force too as their business is being swallowed by linked in and other such sites. Monster.com boasts about a 1.3% success rate not much to brag about.

So your thousands of jobs listed in Monster.. well its bogus because the source is bogus. Now why don't you get off your lazy statistical and go find some actual facts instead of the stinky brain flatulence you used to make your point. You're the smart one here right?

just kidding.. I mean look who's team you blab for.

#84 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-02-11 09:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

righttrite,

You're killing them with facts. Facts discombobulate their brains. They had to go home.

#85 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-11 09:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

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