Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, February 03, 2014

Marjorie Censer, Washington Post: The manufacturing of tanks -- powerful but cumbersome -- is no longer essential, the military says. In modern warfare, forces must deploy quickly and "project power over great distances." Submarines and long-range bombers are needed. Weapons such as drones -- nimble and tactical -- are the future. Tanks are something of a relic. The Army has about 5,000 of them sitting idle or awaiting an upgrade. For the BAE Systems employees in York, keeping the armored vehicle in service means keeping a job. And jobs, after all, are what their representatives in Congress are working to protect in their home districts.

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rstybeach11

 

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The Army is pushing ahead on a path that could result in at least partial closure of the two U.S. facilities producing these vehicles -- buoyed by a new study on the state of the combat vehicle industry due for release next month.

But its plans could be derailed by a Congress unwilling to yield and an industry with a powerful lobby. They argue that letting these lines idle or close would mean letting skills and technology honed over decades go to waste.

Different year, same military industrial complex.

Comments

Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

Congress is leading this country down the wrong road.

#1 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-03 06:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

It is Congressional spending, not 'military' spending that is the problem; and I grew up just a few miles outside of York.

#2 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-02-03 07:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

We must keep building tanks so Dick Cheney can finish his transformation into a cyborg.

#3 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-02-03 08:19 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

We can't go to something needing more education cause that would mean congress would have to address our depleting education in this country so they might as well keep the tank around, the lowly main street young can still be used in the military then.

#4 | Posted by moneywar at 2014-02-03 08:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

So the Army will join the Navy, which has several ships rusting away, ships that they never wanted, but Republican majority leader Trent Lott's state has a shipyard that built them.

Quick, somebody blame a welfare queen in a Cadillac or something!

#5 | Posted by northguy3 at 2014-02-03 08:37 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Maybe they could put snow plows on them.

#6 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-03 08:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

#2 | Posted by MSgt

That doesn't even make sense. Military spending IS congressional spending.

#7 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-02-03 08:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

I would think 5000 tanks sufficient for whatever third world nation the US will invade next.

#8 | Posted by northguy3 at 2014-02-03 09:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

prepping to invade America, just waiting to see how much they can continue to take before the population gets angry.

#9 | Posted by moneywar at 2014-02-03 09:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lockheed-Martin is doing the same thing with the Hercules C-130 transport plane.

The military already has over a thousand, and is sending them to the boneyard. But Lockheed's lobby is so powerful, they keep getting bought (and shipped to rot in the desert), even though the military doesn't want any more.

But congress keeps buying - to protect jobs in their jurisdictions. Lockheed spread out production to over 50 jurisdictions.

#10 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-02-03 09:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

In the age of drones, tanks and ships have become obsolete. Even planes are obsolete.

Warfare evolves. Republicans don't. They don't believe in evolution. Which explains their 14th century point of view.

#11 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-02-03 09:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm a bit disappointed that we haven't progressed to Mechs yet.

#12 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-02-03 09:55 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

#12
Fuchikoma?

#13 | Posted by HanoverFist at 2014-02-03 10:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's time to revolt against this Congress. They are weaponizing enemy after enemy, inventing wars, investing in wars..

#14 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-02-03 10:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Warfare evolves. Republicans don't. They don't believe in evolution. Which explains their 14th century point of view.

#11 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK: Still does not get that this is obama's DOD.

#15 | Posted by MSgt at 2014-02-03 11:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

#11 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK: Still does not get that this is obama's DOD.

#15 | Posted by MSgt

FLAG:
Still doesn't get that congress controls spending.

#16 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2014-02-03 11:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

Which explains their 14th century point of view.

#11 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK AT 2014-02-03 09:33 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Well to be fair, their $100 million order for trebuchets was stripped from their spending bill.

#17 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-04 08:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

#11 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK: Still does not get that this is obama's DOD.

#15 | POSTED BY MSGT AT 2014-02-03 11:28 PM | FLAG: Still doesn't understand that the Army said they don't want the tanks, but Congress and they lobbyists do.

#18 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-04 08:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Still doesn't understand that the Army said they don't want the tanks, but Congress and they lobbyists do."

He understands, he just doesn't want to acknowledge the truth because it's his job to always blame Obama. I think it's about 50 cents per post.

#19 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-04 08:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

#19 Danni, you can't pay someone to be that stupid.

#20 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2014-02-04 09:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sure you can.

#21 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2014-02-04 09:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

Just one of the many forms of corporate welfare we engage in.

But look over there! A kid whose mom is on welfare has an iPhone!

#22 | Posted by Sully at 2014-02-04 09:39 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 2

Warfare evolves. Republicans don't. They don't believe in evolution. Which explains their 14th century point of view.
#11 | POSTED BY CLOWNSHACK

Clown, you know better than this...

One reason France was raped by Germany was because the Germans had better tanks. they were lighter, stronger and moved better. France, being the liberal and progressive nation it was, never thought Germany would invade. They thought they were safe. Just like liberals here are talking..

Now, to the article. One tenant of military thinking is to always be prepared. While I do agree that the future is moving away from A1 type tank delivery systems, it certainly isn't moving away from the MRAP/Striker type, which is what we need to be investing in. I say keep our 5000 tanks on the books and maintain them. No need to order new ones. Always remember, Russian has almost double the number of tanks we have. So does North Korea. And while we may not be threatened now, only the naïve would not prepare. There may be times when those drones cannot fly. There may be a time when we cannot deploy aircraft as tank killers. Nothing says the U.S. will always be in control of it's airspace. So Warthogs may not always be in the air. Prior Preparation Prevents Poor Performance. These lessons were learned hard. It would do us good to remember them.

The superiority of the U.S. military isn't a guarantee for all time. I sometimes have to remind myself, Rome was all powerful too..

#23 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-04 10:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

France was raped by Germany was because the Germans had better tanks.
#23 | Posted by boaz

That was 75 years ago. Once upon a time wooden sailing ships were what defined a world power but technology moved on and most everyone agrees that we don't need to build more ships of the line today. Now the Army says technology has move on from the tank and they don't need any more of them. I'll bet we've got better things we could use that money for.

#24 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2014-02-04 10:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

I read the article. There's no reason to keep making a product our army says it doesn't need. The army knows what it needs....Congress doesn't. It's that simple.

#25 | Posted by eberly at 2014-02-04 11:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

We can't go to something needing more education cause that would mean congress would have to address our depleting education in this country so they might as well keep the tank around, the lowly main street young can still be used in the military then.

#4 | Posted by moneywar at 2014-02-03 08:29 PM

WTF? Seriously. WTF are you babbling about? What the ---- are you babbling about?

#26 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-02-04 11:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

Always remember, Russian has almost double the number of tanks we have. So does North Korea.

Always remember, tanks don't float.

#27 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-04 11:26 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Them politicians know just exactly what the army needs.

#28 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-02-04 11:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

Always remember, tanks don't float.

Wow. You liberals are really on a roll today. Saying things only in a liberals mind sound right.

Russia can project power, you do know that, right? Our little oceans on either side of us can be crossed by Russia, you do know that, right? And they can invade us if they want to...

You liberals are so small minded.

#29 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-04 12:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Our little oceans on either side of us can be crossed by Russia, you do know that, right?

That is what our Navy is for. Certainly I would not expect our military to wait until the ships with the tanks on them reach our shores to do anything about it. I find it amazing that you do. You have watched Red Dawn too many times.

Why don't you prove how little the Pacific is...do a few laps.

#30 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-04 01:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

You liberals are so small minded.

#29 | POSTED BY BOAZ AT 2014-02-04 12:09 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

You are defending Congress funding a massive spending program to produce weapons that the ARMY DOES NOT WANT OR NEED and you have the balls to call others small minded? That is ripe.

Just admit that the only reason to build the tanks is because lobbyists have put enough $$$ into the congresscritters pockets to get them to agree to waste money on it. Just more corporate welfare and you are too dumb or blind to see it.

#31 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-04 01:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

#31 | POSTED BY 726

Interesting to see the "small government" types defend Congress on this. Don't want to call them hypocritical, but if the shoe fits....

#32 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-04 01:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"One reason France was raped by Germany was because the Germans had better tanks. they were lighter, stronger and moved better. France, being the liberal and progressive nation it was, never thought Germany would invade. They thought they were safe. Just like liberals here are talking.."

By that logic, we should train our troops in archery because many battles in the past were won because one side utilized their archers better than the other.

#33 | Posted by Sully at 2014-02-04 01:41 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

I want to know what happened to the parabolic mirrors to protect our shores from invading ships.

#34 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-04 02:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

#33 | POSTED BY SULLY AT 2014-02-04 01:41 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

Exactly. Let's not kid ourselves. If there was any legitimate threat against the U.S., and that country acted upon that thread, a nuclear holocaust would ensue. Because the only countries who are a legitimate threat are nuclear. And we all no there is no chance in hell that the U.S. would ever allow a take over, a la France in WWII.

#35 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-04 02:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Flying drone tanks.... that's the ticket!

#36 | Posted by Corky at 2014-02-04 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

They can buy them with the savings from starving poor people. They are a necessary machine for invading other countries. Minding other people's business and telling them what to do is what America is all about.

#37 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-04 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

-Minding other people's business and telling them what to do is what America is all about.

Yes, Britain and Europe still hate us for our WWII meddling over there.

#38 | Posted by Corky at 2014-02-04 02:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Always remember, tanks don't float.

#27 | Posted by 726

We must have UPS'ed them to Normandy.

#39 | Posted by wisgod at 2014-02-04 02:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

You are defending Congress funding a massive spending program to produce weapons that the ARMY DOES NOT WANT OR NEED

You didn't read where I said we don't need anymore new tanks, did you?

Certainly I would not expect our military to wait until the ships with the tanks on them reach our shores to do anything about it. I find it amazing that you do.

I said we needed to be prepared. You never know when our airpower may be taken out, even for a short time. You never know when our Navy may have a hole in it's defense. You just never know. The moment you say it cant happen is the day people will be on Myrtle Beach watching an enemy land on Kingston Plantation..www.kingstonplantation.com

#40 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-04 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

If Dumya had just a few more tanks at his disposal he could've prevented Al Qaeda's display of shock and awe at the Pentagon.

#41 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2014-02-04 03:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Flying drone tanks.... that's the ticket!
#36 | Posted by Corky

WOW!!! And Amazon can deliver them!

#42 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2014-02-04 04:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

#40, Boaz is right on the mark. Another thing to consider is another strategy for tanks. Tanks can go many places and over many obstacles other vehicles cannot.

Lockheed Martin revealed is has tested the a 30-kilowatt electric fiber laser, the highest power ever fired.

The firm says the weapon could eventually be mounted on jets, tanks and fighter planes...

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk

#43 | Posted by path at 2014-02-04 04:10 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#40, Boaz is right on the mark.

Thanks...

#44 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-04 04:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think the point is that welfare/subsidies from the federal government is bad on both ends, whether they be individuals and businesses. Dems' think that individuals have a right to others people's property because they are in need. Repubs' think business have a right to other peoples property because they are in need. Both sides are wrong, both sides are acting against the founders and the constitution.

#45 | Posted by danv at 2014-02-04 07:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Corporate CEOs do not build tanks or airplanes. Thousands of well paid workers (voters) do. If the welfare voters can elect enough representatives they can get the (now unemployed) plane and tank builders to join them.

#46 | Posted by jdmeth at 2014-02-04 09:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

"For the BAE Systems employees in York, keeping the armored vehicle in service means keeping a job. And jobs, after all, are what their representatives in Congress are working to protect in their home districts."

Doing your JOB, and getting re-elected are NOT the same thing.

Unless your all "Party over Country", then you better believe the job is to just keep getting elected

#47 | Posted by GotTruth at 2014-02-04 11:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Unless your all "Party over Country", then you better believe the job is to just keep getting elected"

In most cases that would be "Me over country".

#48 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-02-04 11:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

The ultimate weapon is a heavy rock. It's been around for centuries. Yet everywhere I look all the big rocks have been removed. Only streets of asphalt and concrete everywhere I look.

What will we do tomorrow when the Russians show up with big heavy rocks and start bashing our heads a bloody red?

How dare the Obama administration push their liberal policies? I demand we fill our streets with rocks so we can defend ourselves!!

Oh I know, you say what need have we for rocks when we have car antennas. But what if we can't get to our car antennas in time? Does no one think of that??

#49 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-02-05 12:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

Fund the DoD with donations only, a lot of nonsense will stop immediately. Little boys who want to play war games can fund all the toys they want.
Corporate sponsors would be okay too, the USS Soros has a nice ring to it.

#50 | Posted by bored at 2014-02-05 01:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

WTF? Brigham Young University has released a bizarro video featuring mock war scenes to warn young Mormon ------- not to watch porn because then they will ---------- and they will become "spiritually wounded on the battlefield of the great war" and their friends will have to come to the aid of those "wounded warriors," just like in Iraq, sort of, so for God's sake don't do it, or at least close the door. Wow. The ad drew so many online wiseacres the comments were quickly disabled, and a subtle parody video has appeared because, of course.

"The temptations of the Great War are many...The enemy is cruel, ruthless, and relentless. We must be vigilant and valiant." - God-like voiceover
-Abby Zimet

#51 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-05 07:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Unless your all "Party over Country", then you better believe the job is to just keep getting elected"

In most cases that would be "Me over country".

#48 | Posted by REDIAL

I think Trent Lott is doing it for his state. He represents his constituents. You know, his job.

#52 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-05 09:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

Just one of the many forms of corporate welfare we engage in.

But look over there! A kid whose mom is on welfare has an iPhone!

#22 | Posted by Sully

This is not the corporate welfare that you intended. This relationship is set up because the US government is not allowed to build their own tanks.

I think it's fair to at least debate it in committee, but I wouldn't want Congress to fund it if the Army knows they won't be needing it.

What I don't think is fair is your comparison to the abuse of Welfare. Do you realize that welfare has grown by 4 times since 2000? We are enabling people to not better themselves. The Whitehouse just published new information on the number of people who will be dropping out of the workforce so that they will be able to go on subsidized health care.

#53 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-05 10:12 AM | Reply | Flag:


Yes, Britain and Europe still hate us for our WWII meddling over there.
#38 | Posted by Corky

I truly hope this was sarcasm..

#54 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-05 12:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

That you can't tell that it is is disturbing to say the least.

#55 | Posted by Corky at 2014-02-05 12:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

I said we needed to be prepared. You never know when our airpower may be taken out, even for a short time. You never know when our Navy may have a hole in it's defense. You just never know.

That is just bed wetter hysteria on your part.

The Army says it doesn't need them or want them. You obviously know better. Carry on General.

Don't worry, the Wolverines will get them.

#56 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-05 04:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

You just never know.

In your hysteria driven world we could never have too many tanks. 2,000,000 enough for your? 3,000,000? 10,000,000?

There are other weapons than tanks. The Army acknowledges that, why don't you join them in reality?

#57 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-05 04:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Do you realize that welfare has grown by 4 times since 2000?

Yes, and Boaz wants to grow it more to allay his fears.

#58 | Posted by 726 at 2014-02-05 04:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

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