Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Sunday, February 02, 2014

The actor Philip Seymour Hoffman was found dead Sunday morning of a possible heroin overdose in his Manhattan apartment, a police source said. A source said Hoffman was found alone with a needle in his arm in the bathroom of his apartment. Hoffman won the best actor Oscar for his 2005 performance as the title character in Capote. He also was nominated for best supporting actor for his roles in the films Charlie Wilson's War (2007), Doubt (2008) and The Master (2012).

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Hoffman said in 2006 he was glad he didn't become famous until he was older and had gotten past his problems with booze and drugs. "I have so much empathy for these young actors that are 19 and all of a sudden they're beautiful and famous and rich. I'm like, 'Oh my God, I'd be dead.'"

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Just saw him in Hunger Games 2.....

#1 | Posted by Rigel at 2014-02-02 02:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

This sucks. I've been a fan of his since he played Scotty, the dweeby hanger on in Boogie Nights.

#2 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-02 02:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

He was a great talent but the only thing surprising about his o.d. is that it didn't happen sooner.

#3 | Posted by johnny_hotsauce at 2014-02-02 02:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

I have no pity for someone who kills themselves with alcohol or drugs. The real shame is that people will be coming out of the woodwork to heap posthumous praise on a man who valued himself so little he died of an OD.

#5 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-02-02 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

His personal failings don't obscure the incredible work he did on film.

#7 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-02 02:30 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#4 | Posted by MUSTANG

Compassionate conservative, no doubt. He was a wonderful actor. RIP.

#8 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-02-02 02:35 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

You're right mustang, but it's still sad and even though he is one of those who I have said makes millions reading other people's words, it's still a shame that any life ends this early and basically by his own hand.

and millay almost celebrates it with my 2nd favorite poem..

'My candle burns at both ends;It will not last the night; But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends -- It gives a lovely light!'

#9 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-02 02:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

This sucks. I've been a fan of his since he played Scotty, the dweeby hanger on in Boogie Nights.
#2 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-02 02:07 PM

Me too - this comes completely as a surprise. As a favorite role in Boogie Nights his Scotty was so over-the-top uncomfortable, his taste and acting capability will be missed.

#10 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-02-02 02:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Would you stop with the "reading other people's words" crap, Afk? Gee, if that's true, then a piano players just hits keys on a device made by someone else in an effort to reproduce notes written by other people. Lame, Afk; deeply lame. You claim to believe in the arts and you say this nonsense.

Hoffman was one of my generation's finest actors, perhaps one of America's. I knew nothing about his life, so this was news to me.

#11 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-02-02 03:07 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

Owning Mahowny created a tension unlike any horror or thriller movie. This slow motion tension just goes on and on......

#12 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-02 03:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

apparantly never got over his drug abuse which is a choice.

#13 | Posted by pragmatous at 2014-02-02 03:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hoffman was a fantastic actor. Probably first saw him in "Boogie Nights" - later the sleeper "State and Main" - an actor's actor, which set him apart from most, with more than he few demons to contend with, which puts him right in with the pack. Condolences to his partner and children - this is a guy whose talent really will be missed.

#14 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-02-02 03:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

no, I WILL NOT...I say that because I know what it's about...I used that here to explain that even though I have less respect for actors than I do musicians, it was sad that a life was lost. You used that to make a point about me.

enough of all that.

#15 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-02 03:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

an author friend of mine just emailed me and reminded me of perhaps his best job

capote...he did capture the essence of the man who wrote my 2nd favorite book..

#16 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-02 03:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

"apparantly never got over his drug abuse which is a choice."

Easy for you to say. You don't know what inner demons he wrestled with. He went through detox, knew he had a problem.

#17 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-02-02 03:21 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

when someone says they have a choice...they ALWAYS do....they have the choice not to start....

after that, it could be a similar problem for any of us...smoking, for instance...certainly not hard core stuff, but still pretty hard to kick....

#19 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-02 03:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

when someone says they have a choice...they ALWAYS do....they have the choice not to start....

after that, it could be a similar problem for any of us...smoking, for instance...certainly not hard core stuff, but still pretty hard to kick....

#20 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-02 03:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

What was his greatest performance? Capote?

#21 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-02-02 03:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

What was his greatest performance? Capote?

#19 | POSTED BY NULLIFIDIAN

Along Comes Polly...... or Law and Order.

Personally there is a lot of praise for him, but I didn't find him to be very versitale. Typically a part that called for over acting, big overweight white guy and he delivered. MI:3, I haven't seen hungergames, but I bet its more of the same. That if you put montage of his work together, people couldn't tell him apart move to movie.

Regardless, we was better than most.....

IMO it was a choice, it really doesn't matter if he was battling demons, perhaps they exist because his life was "easy". He had little need for money and too much time to self-reflect. Again wallowing with drugs and drinking is just hiding and masking emotions that he had trouble letting out.

#22 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-02-02 03:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're an effing idiot.

#16 | Posted by PinchALoaf at 20

it's his opinion and one shared by many. who do you think YOU ARE for judging mustang... your post is going after mustang for judging?

oh wait...you're a liberal.. logic doesn't matter...only how you 'FEEEEL"

#23 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-02 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"IMO it was a choice, it really doesn't matter if he was battling demons, perhaps they exist because his life was "easy". "

I thought you didn't believe in "free will", Mackris.

#24 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-02-02 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

He made a great Capote, and was a consummate actor all around.

As usual, it is the conservatives who can't forgive his human frailties.

#25 | Posted by Corky at 2014-02-02 04:01 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 6

#23 | Posted by Corky

Flagged as newsworthy.

#26 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-02-02 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

baloney...he had a choice the first time someone said..hey lets do some ????? ....

and I thought capote was his best but as I said..."In cold blood' remains one of my favs today so that probably colored my opinion.

#27 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-02 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

even though I have less respect for actors than I do musicians,

I can concur with you on that, Aflac. Musicians need to be able to interpret notes as well as need the physical ability to play them.

And yes, as a matter of fact, Hell is indeed frozen over.

#28 | Posted by northguy3 at 2014-02-02 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

What was Philip Seymour Hoffman's greatest performance?

www.goldderby.com

#29 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-02-02 04:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

didn't want to get into that here.....hope you have a coat !!

#30 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-02 04:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

I have no pity for someone who kills themselves with alcohol or drugs. The real shame is that people will be coming out of the woodwork to heap posthumous praise on a man who valued himself so little he died of an OD.

#4 | POSTED BY MUSTANG AT 2014-02-02 02:23 PM

Stop being stupid, you moron. Drug addiction is an illness.

#31 | Posted by justanoversight at 2014-02-02 04:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

What the ----!!

He was a brilliant actor and a great human being! This is tragic.

:(

#32 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-02-02 04:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Another Oscar winner, much older, died yesterday.

Maximilian Schell, Oscar-Winning Actor, Dies at 83

www.nytimes.com

#33 | Posted by Corky at 2014-02-02 04:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

yes cork...and a lot of celebrities are wondering if they're the THIRD...

#34 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-02 04:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

I can't think of a single movie he was in, in which he wasn't terrific. Doubt. The Big Lebowski. Boogie Nights. Even friggin' Mission Impossible. The guy could ACT.

#35 | Posted by moder8 at 2014-02-02 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

"even though I have less respect for actors than I do musicians,"
I can concur with you on that, Aflac. Musicians need to be able to interpret notes as well as need the physical ability to play them.
And yes, as a matter of fact, Hell is indeed frozen over.
#26 | Posted by northguy3 at 2014-02-02 04:06 PM

Yay! --- Ronald Reagan in the ear repeatedly!

#36 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-02-02 04:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

He was such a good actor, I have trouble tying to separate his true persona from his acting personality...the same with Jimmy Stewart, Lee Marvin, Meryl Streep, Clint Eastwood, and Samuel L. Jackson. Doubt was so good I watched it twice in a row.

#37 | Posted by madscientist at 2014-02-02 04:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yep. Plus, he'll never know who won the Super bowl.

#38 | Posted by kudzu at 2014-02-02 04:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Another Oscar winner, much older, died yesterday.
Maximilian Schell, Oscar-Winning Actor, Dies at 83
www.nytimes.com
#31 | Posted by Corky at 2014-02-02 04:18 PM

I was lucky enough to dig up a digital copy a couple months back and still have to watch - it seems fascinating.

Marlene Documentary by Maximilian Schell - how ironic the interview is spoken in English despite their heavy Germanic accents.

#39 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2014-02-02 04:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

What a shame.
He was great in The Goonies.

#40 | Posted by HanoverFist at 2014-02-02 05:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

As usual, it is the conservatives who can't forgive his human frailties.

My father was a crack addict. I watched him take my sister's new keyboard she had gotten for Christmas out of her hands to sell for $20 so he could buy crack. He wrote checks from my bank account I had with my first job at the age of 16. Almost ruined me financially before I even had a chance. Mama finally left him when he assaulted me and her. He died alone when I was stationed in Belgium.

It was his choice to do drugs that ruined our family. It's not a disease. It's a choice. No one is born with crack attached to their arms and lungs. It's a choice. I've dealt with it first hand.

Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot.

Never trust a crack addict. NEVER.

#41 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-02 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 1

Forgiveness and trust are not the same thing. It's prolly about time you forgave your father.

#42 | Posted by Corky at 2014-02-02 05:22 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Actually,

It was my step dad. My biological father is cool.

And I forgive him, Corky. But I still hold him responsible for what happened.

#43 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-02 05:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

Surprised you didn't blame it on "the libruls"

#44 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-02-02 05:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

sucks. one of my favorite actors of all time.

#45 | Posted by eberly at 2014-02-02 05:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

I hear he was clean for twenty years, before slipping. That's so sad he was a great actor.

#46 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2014-02-02 07:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

11: You don't believe in addiction?

13: What point did you make? Actors are more than readers. Your efforts to cheapen their art are ridiculous. The only point I made about you was that: it's weak, Afk. Very weak. If you're going to suggest that acting is not an art, you're a hypocrite. It's as much an art as playing an instrument.

"capote...he did capture the essence of the man who wrote my 2nd favorite book.."

Then he's not just a reader; you just said it: he captured the essence of another human being, which is much more than reading.

"Typically a part that called for over acting, big overweight white guy and he delivered."

See Capote. Just for one that doesn't fit your mold.

#47 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-02-02 08:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

"...a part that called for over acting, big overweight white guy..."

How the heck did he steal the part from Bill Shatner?

#48 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-02-02 08:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let's say someone was molested as a child, then turns to drugs as an adult to mask the pain, was it a choice then?

#49 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-02-03 12:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

no one has mentioned that this was probably the heroin/fentanyl mixture that has killed unsuspecting hundreds. many may have been just a shell of a person & some may have made great contributions in the present. One the founders of the Mayo Clinic was a lifelong morphine addict, a great surgeon.

no one has mentioned that the mafia FDA-mentality that has kept drugs illegal for any consenting adult, thus masking what is being purchased on the street, is what killed Hoffman.

Killed a genius, and a kind and decent human being, who deserved better from his country.

#50 | Posted by kenx at 2014-02-03 05:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

..who deserved better from his country.

Posted by kenx

LOL! Boo hoo...where did we go wrong?

#51 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-02-03 05:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

a film buff i worked with loaned me his DVD of Hoffman's 'Synecdoche, New York.' Not a happy tale, but powerful, & i'll never forget it.

("Ecstasy in Synecdoche!" line from 'The Place Beyond the Pines')

'Doubt' partnered Hoffman and Streep, which was genius CASTING.

#52 | Posted by kenx at 2014-02-03 05:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

#48 - by allowing the mafia to own you

#53 | Posted by kenx at 2014-02-03 05:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

..by allowing the mafia to own you

Posted by kenx

Much better than allowing drugs to own you...as he did.

#54 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-02-03 05:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

Died with a heroin laced needle in his arm. Addiction is a horrible thing.

#55 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2014-02-03 07:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

Drug addiction is an illness.
#29 | Posted by justanoversight

Oh, well that makes it OK then. I didn't know you could catch it like the flu.

#56 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-02-03 08:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

"...no one has mentioned that this was probably the heroin/fentanyl mixture..."

Possibly because no one has the faintest idea.

#57 | Posted by REDIAL at 2014-02-03 08:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

I remember him as a spoiled kid in that great Pacino tour de force "Scent of a Woman". Great evolution as an actor. RIP

#58 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2014-02-03 09:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

His personal failings don't obscure the incredible work he did on film.

#7 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-02 02:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

As usual, the end justifies the means for liberals. Who cares what family pain he just caused, he made great movies damnit!

Drug addiction is a choice. No one is born with a needle in their arm. [...]

#59 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2014-02-03 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

no one, least of all an addict, truly believes addiction is cool.

anyone celebrating or finding their self worth validated by an addict's lethal OD (whether that addict be of the garden variety or a genius) has lost some or all their humanity, arguably as great a tragedy as addiction. thousands of these deluded Beings have proudly demonstrated their stunted emotional & mental capacity in blogs / news comment sections all across the web since Hoffman's tragic mistake.

#60 | Posted by kenx at 2014-02-03 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

This movie was kind of cheesey, (Along Came Polly with Ben Stiller), but this scene at the end cracks me up. PSH steps in for Ben Stiller's character at this important business meeting.

www.youtube.com

#61 | Posted by CaseyJones at 2014-02-03 11:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

A huge loss for fans...probably had not reached his best years in acting...he may have had a choice to take the first step to drugs, but once that addiction snatches one into the 'jaws of use', it becomes a different situation than a choice.. for some, the addiction becomes a powerful crutch for other issues and no matter the attempts to go clean, the other emotional issues kick in and team up with the addiction..
I doubt it was his choice to go out like he did, but we are looking at two different issues here...
he was a great actor in many ways at many levels..
he had an addiction that contributed to his death..
his addiction should never negate the good work and that part of the legacy left for his children...

#62 | Posted by drsoul at 2014-02-03 12:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

He was one of the most brilliant actors of our time, and I honestly didn't expect to see anyone pissing on his grave, even on the DR. Some people on this site are truly pathetic.

#63 | Posted by JOE at 2014-02-03 12:06 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 5

anyone celebrating or finding their self worth validated by an addict's lethal OD

#60 | Posted by kenx at 2014-02-03 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

No one is doing any chest pounding here kenx. You need to look at the other side excusing the behavior like he had chickenpox or a cold. It's always tragic when an od occurs because of the harm left behind - but I don't see anyone saying "illegal drugs" killed him (like they do with guns) on the left. It was an "illness", the "drugs" don't matter according to the left, but let it be a shooting in a school and it's all about the gun.

#64 | Posted by e_pluribus_unum at 2014-02-03 12:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

He was one of the most brilliant actors of our time, and I honestly didn't expect to see anyone pissing on his grave, even on the DR. Some people on this site are truly pathetic.

#63 | POSTED BY JOE

I am not pissing on his grave, if its directed at criticism. Only that whenever an actor of some skill passes, especially through drug addiction its ...

1. Greatest Actor of his generation. Remember HeathLedger?
charliedvan.hubpages.com

2. His inner demons, that no one can ever understand......

The reality is that yes, addiction is difficult to kick. But people with less means, and worse addictions have kicked their addiction to smack. How did he get to this point? What route did he take? No one wants to address it.....

But this guy gets sympathy because ???

I feel for the guy without the means, and people around him/her to support them through the journey. I will look at his art objectively and not through the rose colored lenses of his method of killing himself.

#66 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-02-03 12:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

whenever an actor of some skill passes, especially through drug addiction its...Greatest Actor of his generation. Remember HeathLedger?

I never claimed Ledger was even remotely good. And to put him in the same class as Hoffman is profoundly ignorant. Anyone familiar with movies would have told you a week ago that Hoffman is one of the greats.

But this guy gets sympathy because ???

If you can't feel sympathy for someone who succumbs to heroin addiction (and eventually dies from it), then you're just a heartless human being.

#67 | Posted by JOE at 2014-02-03 12:55 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

#64 That thought needs expanded on. If Hoffman had put a .45 in his mouth and pulled the trigger, hoplophobics on the DR wouldn't have been talking about his "illness", they would have been blaming guns and the availability of guns. It's an interesting juxtaposition given that several here are advocating legal, regulated drugs as a solution:

the [..] mentality that has kept drugs illegal for any consenting adult, [..] is what killed Hoffman. #50 POSTED BY BELIEBER

Someone in that group care to explain to me the reasoning behind blaming a gun but not the syringe? Behind wanting to outlaw guns and legalize drugs?

#68 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-02-03 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

66 because he died before his time people have sympathy.

Addiction is a terrible 'condition'. Few if any say they want to grow up and be a junkie. That some have quit and never picked up again, doesn't mean its easy nor that he's a louse cause he didn't. Almost everybody knows someone who's lost a loved one to this terrible disease.

#69 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2014-02-03 01:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

"his addiction should never negate the good work and that part of the legacy left for his children..."

Well-put, Dr!

"1. Greatest Actor of his generation. Remember HeathLedger?"

I hope you were comparing drugs and praise, not age. : ) But while Heath did fine in Brokeback and as the joker, I don't believe he had Hoffman's talent.

#70 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-02-03 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't know prag Ledger showed some pretty good chops in A Knights Tale who knows if a few more years of seasoning could have turned him into a Hoffman caliber actor.

Behind wanting to outlaw guns and legalize drugs?

Those of us who are consistent want to legalize both. To your point I don't see much difference between an OD and putting a gun in your mouth. Unless, as was suggested, the Heroin is adulterated in some way. Then it is murder by the person who adulterated it.

It is a shame, addiction is a terrible thing.

#71 | Posted by TaoWarrior at 2014-02-03 01:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

wonderful actor,
wonderful human,
R.I.P.

sadly, he has one
last great lesson to
teach us about the
throws of addiction...

a brilliant life cut short.

#72 | Posted by earthmuse at 2014-02-03 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let's say someone was molested as a child, then turns to drugs as an adult to mask the pain, was it a choice then?

Yes, it is a choice. Needles don't jump into arms, especially when we know the bad effects.

Flagged as abusive you Christian POS.

Why did you do that? Just because he was telling the truth? I guess it hurts your feelings that even though he was a great actor, he was of less character and got hooked on drugs? A choice requires a decision. Decisions are made by adults. One way or the other. It's a simple as that. He goes one way, he gets hooked on drugs. He another way, he doesn't get hooked on drugs and is alive today. It's about consequences. Actions have consequences. You are arguing with some posters who have first hand experiences with drug addiction. I hold people accountable for their actions.

Woop-de-do that you "got off" drugs. I still wouldn't trust you(a drug addict) around money or anything else..You did it. It was a choice. Some choices are harder than others. It's all about making right choices. Period..

#73 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-03 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2 | Newsworthy 2

If you can't feel sympathy for someone who succumbs to heroin addiction (and eventually dies from it), then you're just a heartless human being.

My sympathy goes to those who cannot control their situation, like babies born addicted to crack or heroin, not to a grown adult who first had to go looking for the drug, then bought it with their own money and then shot it into their bodies. All that speaks choice to me..

That's my problem with the whole liberalism thing. We are supposed to have sympathy for people who have made choices in life that they knew would be bad. While living in the ghetto might not be a choice for some people, continuing to live the ghetto lifestyle without doing things that could better your life is a choice. I cant feel sorry for someone who at the age of 40+ hasn't done anything to better themselves to get a better job or pull themselves out of poverty. I have no sympathy for them as they have no sympathy when taxes are taken out of my check.

I have no sympathy for another grown man who has made his bed. Only he can sleep in it..

#74 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-03 02:28 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

"I don't know prag Ledger showed some pretty good chops in A Knights Tale who knows if a few more years of seasoning could have turned him into a Hoffman caliber actor."

Damned fun flick, but hardly acting in the sense I mean--not that comedic acting isn't acting... But yes, in time, who knows? I just wouldn't put them side by side from what we'd seen so far.

[...] I have sympathy for people who die young, even if it was "their choice." I also have anger for someone who will do that to himself and to his family. One can feel both, but as with people who more consciously commit suicide, there is often some sort of mental illness playing a role...

#75 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-02-03 02:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ah, addiction- The only prison that the prisoner doesn't want to break out of.

#76 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2014-02-03 02:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

a brilliant life cut short.

#72 | POSTED BY EARTHMUSE

Well, the whole 'shooting up some more before picking up the kids' thing is hard to defend.

A brilliant professional life? No doubt.

Poor kids.

#77 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-02-03 03:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

A.O. Scott of the NYT covers Hoffman's brilliant career:

www.nytimes.com

All the talk about him being the greatest actor of his generation makes me wonder who the new greatest is. Rosie O'Donnell?

#78 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-03 03:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bill Haverchuck

#79 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2014-02-03 03:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

My sympathy goes to those who cannot control their situation, like babies born addicted to crack or heroin, not to a grown adult who first had to go looking for the drug, then bought it with their own money and then shot it into their bodies. All that speaks choice to me..

Just because someone made a bad choice doesn't mean they don't deserve sympathy.

Everyone makes poor decisions at one time or another. To claim we shouldn't feel anything when someone dies as a result of their own choices is beyond absurd. I suspect it's more of a political consistency issue you're attempting to hammer home more than anything else. Sure enough:

That's my problem with the whole liberalism thing.

You do indeed have a problem.

#80 | Posted by JOE at 2014-02-03 04:00 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

I really have to wonder why Boaz would use this thread to launch into an anti-welfare rant. Hoffman wasn't on welfare and paid more taxes in his 46 years of life than Boaz ever will.

#81 | Posted by JOE at 2014-02-03 04:01 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 3

I really have to wonder why Boaz would use this thread to launch into an anti-welfare rant

I did it to show that a lot of the time, the ghetto and dependency on govt lifestyle is a choice. It's a lot easier to have someone else to blame when you haven't made good choices in life. I'm not down on welfare. Some people do need it. But all too often, generations of people are on welfare and all too often, there are forces(liberals) that try to say it's someone elses fault why certain groups of people are always on welfare. I'm just trying to show that it's a choice.

#83 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-03 04:15 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

There are any number of examples you could have used to demonstrate that something is a "choice." That this is your default deflection in a thread about someone dying of a heroin overdose is bizarre.

And I stick by my argument that someone dying as a result of their own choices still deserves some level of sympathy, especially choices like drug addiction where you don't always die as a result. I noticed you didn't respond to that point. Keep talking about welfare. It's super relevant.

#84 | Posted by JOE at 2014-02-03 04:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

And I stick by my argument that someone dying as a result of their own choices still deserves some level of sympathy

Sure. Give em sympathy. But not the same as a crack addicted child. If they are in a hospital crapping themselves, then sure give sympathy. Asking for help time and time again after you continue to snort cocaine or freebase crack isn't sympathy that should be extended. I made that clear Joe. But you continue to think I didn't respond. It helps your argument I guess.

#85 | Posted by boaz at 2014-02-03 04:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

not the same as a crack addicted child

Show me where I said they deserved the same sympathy as a crack-addicted child.

Your entire "argument" in this thread is based on a strawman premise.

#86 | Posted by JOE at 2014-02-03 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I have no pity for someone who kills themselves with alcohol or drugs."

Spoken like a true Christian. I am sure Jesus would have said the very same thing.

#87 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-02-03 04:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

I have no sympathy for another grown man who has made his bed. Only he can sleep in it..

#74 | Posted by boaz

If only that were true we would have no need for divorce lawyers.

#88 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-02-03 05:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let's say someone was molested as a child, then turns to drugs as an adult to mask the pain, was it a choice then?

Yes, it is a choice. Needles don't jump into arms, especially when we know the bad effects.
#73 | Posted by boaz

So I guess you feel that molesting children is not the most horrible crime then? If someone can make the choice to get over it, then where is the harm?
Please don't flag, not accusing or baiting, just trying to look at it a certain way. If everything is a choice, then your past doesn't matter.

#89 | Posted by TFDNihilist at 2014-02-03 05:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

#87 Your jibe would have had teeth were I a Christian...

#90 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-02-03 06:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Your jibe would have had teeth were I a Christian...

#90 | Posted by MUSTANG

Then maybe you need to learn simple compassion (no bible needed) for your fellow humans and the human condition and not a judge a man until you walk a mile in his shoes.

No worries.

karma can be a beach. Not Christian? If I were you I would also hope there is no God. For if there is a God I am sure he has a really great plan for the likes of you.

#91 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-02-03 06:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

LOL! Boo hoo...where did we go wrong?

#51 | POSTED BY GREATAMERICAN

#48 - by allowing the mafia to own you

messed my response to #51 ~ just want to reiterate organized crime profits OBSCENELY from the drugs being illegal, whereas American citizens under our constitution have the RIGHT to use recreational drugs IF THEY SO CHOOSE, regardless of majority opinion on the matter. Consenting adults have the right to charge & pay for sex if they so choose. We see time and again politicians quoting the bible, then caught later with a male hooker; it's disgusting: not the need for sex or companionship but the hypocrisy.

what is so shocking about giving people access to safely labeled narcotics? After the stigma has worn off & hundreds or thousands overdose (IT'S THEIR CHOICE), there will be knowledge & guidelines to more safely handle it. The majority, with their self~righteous disapproval, & the mafia are in bed together. Yes, I mean self~righteous hypocrisy & sociopath criminals going at it.

#92 | Posted by kenx at 2014-02-03 07:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

and we KNOW the see~eye~ay flooded the inner cities with crack in the 80s., our government "protectors" and crime lords in bed together, GOING AT IT!

en.wikipedia.org

#93 | Posted by kenx at 2014-02-03 07:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I'm sure you would care if you were the victim of such an abusive attack."

I have been. And I tell the abusive person to F--- off, then I move on. Which is, I expect, what you will do. I was thinking about water and duck's backs when I wrote the IF clause. I didn't mean to suggest that you shouldn't care about being verbally abused.

"Give em sympathy. But not the same as a crack addicted child."

Who, among those offering sympathy to Hoffman, was suggesting the same sympathy as that offered to a crack-addicted child? You brought that into it, Boaz.

#94 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-02-03 07:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

... American citizens under our constitution have the RIGHT to use recreational drugs IF THEY SO CHOOSE, regardless of majority opinion on the matter.

There's nothing in the Constitution that asserts a right to take drugs. I'm all for the legalization of pot and the reduced criminalization of drug sentences, but let's get real here. The societal costs of letting intensely addictive drugs like heroin be legal would be enormous.

#95 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-03 07:21 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"There's nothing in the Constitution that asserts a right to take drugs"

It's implied, just like abortion rights aren't in the Constitution.

#96 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-02-03 07:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

96: So drug use falls under/undergirds the privacy penumbra concept? Intriguing.

And you don't think that there would be some serious societal effect if folks were shooting heroin and smoking meth willy-nilly?

#97 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-02-03 07:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's implied, just like abortion rights aren't in the Constitution.

The Supreme Court found abortion rights in the Constitution and wrote a ruling establishing that idea. Cite a decision where the court has ever found a right to take drugs.

#98 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-03 07:44 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"The Supreme Court found abortion rights in the Constitution and wrote a ruling establishing that idea. Cite a decision where the court has ever found a right to take drugs."

They didn't "discover" those rights until 1970, just like they didn't discover other civil rights through the last 2 centuries.

druglibrary.org

#99 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-02-03 07:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

A Supreme Court decision is hardly an arbiter of what's constitutional or not, unless you want to argue for the Dred Scott decision.

#100 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-02-03 07:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

A Supreme Court decision is hardly an arbiter of what's constitutional or not, unless you want to argue for the Dred Scott decision.

The fact there are notable exceptions does not render the entirety of the Supreme Court's rulings invalid. Of course they're the arbiter of what's constitutional. -- Marbury v. Madison (1803).

#101 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-03 08:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Of course they're the arbiter of what's constitutional."

Until they reverse themselves, which means their previous decision was unconstitutional. Plessy vs. Ferguson?

#102 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-02-03 08:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

#91. I walked a mile in those shoes, but it was the first mile: I was offered drugs...I said no, thanks. He chose a different path and it was a dead end. He could have said no, but he CHOSE not to. His crappy choice led to his death. Choices have consequences.

#103 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-02-03 08:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

These Hollywood people gaining celebrity and making their millions, but not at all for producing something of real value to the world, but instead for pretending they are someone else, and are proclaimed by their peers as geniuses and highly important to society.

Tell me again why this is, and why they get paid so much more than others who do functions that are essential to society?

#104 | Posted by Robson at 2014-02-03 08:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

#104 | POSTED BY ROBSON

Entertainment is valued by humans. Though, apparently not by ROBSON.

#105 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-03 08:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

105: And some entertainment is art. A movie can speak to the human condition, just as a book or piece of music can. Robson's "not of real value" is overly intellectualized crap. And I'm given to overly intellectualized crap! Yeesh.

That said, why do they get paid so much? 'Cause movies are a commercial venture. If people didn't go in such numbers, they wouldn't earn so much money, and thus actors wouldn't get paid as they do. Do I think other types of people give value to the world to a greater degree? Sure. But teachers (for instance) don't earn any corporations bajillions of dollars, so they don't get paid bajillions of dollars.

#106 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-02-03 08:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

I walked a mile in those shoes, but it was the first mile: I was offered drugs...I said no, thanks.

Stop lying to yourself. You did not walk a mile in HIS shoes. You have no idea what his life was really like or how or why he ever got involved with drugs and you don't even care. You saw the word "drugs" and your mind shut down.

Embrace your Karma.

#107 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-02-03 08:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

That said, why do they get paid so much?
#106 | POSTED BY PRAGMATIST

For the same reason athletes get paid too much -- capitalism affords value to what's popular. The more popular you are (or your product), the more you will earn.

ROBSON -

What's with the anti-free-market rant?

#108 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-03 08:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

"For the same reason athletes get paid too much -- capitalism affords value to what's popular. The more popular you are (or your product), the more you will earn. "

That was exactly the point I made.

#109 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-02-03 08:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

#109 | POSTED BY PRAGMATIST

Apologies. I just wanted to sound smart too.

:-/

#110 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-03 08:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Until they reverse themselves, which means their previous decision was unconstitutional. Plessy vs. Ferguson?

You're getting away from the point. You argued that there's a constitutional right to use drugs. Pressed on this, you're still at the "because ... reasons!" stage. The Dred Scott decision and Plessy v. Ferguson do not say anything about drug use being constitutional

Personally, I think it would be a shame if pro-pot legalization people decided to destroy their own argument by taking a pro-heroin, pro-meth, pro-bath salts, pro-anything position. It's hard enough to get the federales to calm down over a relatively harmless herb.

#111 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-03 08:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Personally, I think it would be a shame if pro-pot legalization people decided to destroy their own argument by taking a pro-heroin, pro-meth, pro-bath salts, pro-anything position.

Criminalizing it all is a better alternative? Since when?

#112 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-02-03 08:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Pressed on this, you're still at the "because ... reasons!" stage. "

No, there are numerous arguments for the unconstitutionality of drug prohibition, some in links I've supplied. Violation of first amendment rights, privacy rights [the rationale for Roe v. Wade],
violation of the Interstate Commerce Clause--an argument made by Sandra Day O'conner, violation of due process, etc.

"When the country, or at least those in power, decided to ban alcoholic beverages, they had to do it by means of a constitutional amendment. They understood that the Constitution does not empower the federal government to simply legislate a ban on alcohol. More recently, of course, when the government decided to ban some drugs, they simply passed laws. These laws are just as unconstitutional as a law banning alcoholic beverages would have been in 1920. So, why have these drug prohibition laws been passed if the congress is not empowered to do so? And why has the Supreme Court upheld these unconstitutional laws? The Constitution has not changed, but the attitudes of the congress and government have.

#113 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-02-03 09:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

not long ago I believe I saw him in an ad talking about how dangerous

guns were....

#114 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2014-02-03 09:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

110: LMAO!

112: Nah, they're already all criminalized. If we've learned nothing else from history, it's that change occurs incrementally, especially with issues so tied to morality, or visions/perversions of morality.

113: Interesting argument, Nulli. I still would and do have major concerns about the public health aspect. If drug abuse really harmed only those who took the drugs, I'd get it. But then, you and I already disagree on pot, for IIRC you are for utter and total lack of regulation, and I'm for regulation similar to the way we currently treat alcohol. Has the SCOTUS ever accepted a case about the constitutionality of drug laws? Pardon me if you already linked to such and I missed it.

#115 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-02-03 09:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

The 9th amendment protects rights not enumerated in the Constitution, and the 10th limits the powers of the federal government to those delegated to it by the Constitution. wikiP

There would be no doubt unimagined consequences to decriminalizing all drugs. But money diverted from the mafias could go for real education and treatment. All we have for "education" now is propaganda of a dysfunctional hate-enforcement. Morphine and heroin could be managed & shown to be not nearly as harmful as heavy alcohol & tobacco use. How frequently can an individual enjoy it and not become addicted? Results based on an individual's DNA would probably vary widely, but research could discover the answers with money from revenues & taxes. Same for amphetamines. Are people going to use bath salts when they can take LSD or psilocybin in spas or on a tropical island with friendly, qualified professionals available, who would leave them be upon request? Will people choose addiction if there is rational procedure available for how to avoid it? Obviously yes, as with booze & cigarettes. But use of the latter is decreasing, and not thru prohibition, but from visibility of the consequences & education.

#116 | Posted by kenx at 2014-02-03 10:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

I really enjoyed the Constitutional law lesson, no really! But back to the subject at hand, first Phillip Seymour Hoffman, now former 2nd lady Joan Mondale, so who will be the third Democrat to pass?

Alas it will happen, but the good news is...the party can still at least count on their vote!

#117 | Posted by tontonmacoute at 2014-02-03 11:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

As usual, the end justifies the means for liberals. Who cares what family pain he just caused, he made great movies damnit!

As usual, you're missing the point. A person can be a great actor and a terrible human being. The latter does not invalidate the former. Both can be true.

Using this to liberal bash is weak. There are plenty of conservatives who would tell you they appreciate Hoffman's work despite his personal failings.

#118 | Posted by rcade at 2014-02-04 09:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

Best cure for the heroin plague would be to get out of Afghanistan.
We had a big heroin plague in the 70's during and after our involvement in Vietnam, it somewhat subsided in later decades, now it's back. Guess why?
One good thing George Bush did was he paid the Taliban to destroy the poppy plantations. That was a good investment, too bad he went nuts later.

#119 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-04 09:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Guess why?"

No one really knows. But I think it has a direct correlation with the amount drugs available (as you so keenly observed) and the amount of suffering in the world.

#120 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-02-04 10:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

Mr. Hoffman is ultimately responsible for his own actions.

The bigger picture is that Afghanistan drug lords currently supply over 90% of the world's opiates creating an immense supply far greater than overall demand. You would think such a high load coming essential from one source would be somehow be controllable by united law enforcement agencies.

#121 | Posted by CrisisStills at 2014-02-04 11:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

"One good thing George Bush did was he paid the Taliban to destroy the poppy plantations."

i was aware the Taliban greatly suppressed poppy production; i wasn't aware W paid or supplemented them to do it. He did not motivate them to do it, they were already against it. Poppy production went back up through the roof during U.S. occupation there, and i saw the report on 60 Minutes in which U.S. soldiers were building irrigation systems for the poppy fields! That is STRAIGHT out of 1984 Newthink (peace is war, etc.).

#122 | Posted by kenx at 2014-02-04 09:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

that is, DOUBLETHINK. Newspeak is the paring down of the language, eliminating words relating to freedom, dissent, individuality, and so forth. (always mix those terms up).

#123 | Posted by kenx at 2014-02-04 09:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

117: Another poster utterly without class speaks up.

#124 | Posted by pragmatist at 2014-02-04 09:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

doublethink: "the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them. ... To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just so long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies -- all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.

"Through doublethink, the Party was able to not only bomb its own people and tell its citizens that the bombs were sent by the enemy, but all Party members -- even the ones that launched the rockets themselves -- were able to believe that the bombs were launched from outside."

www.netcharles.com

#125 | Posted by kenx at 2014-02-04 09:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

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