Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Tuesday, February 04, 2014

C.J. Werelman, Alternet: The battle for the heart and soul of the GOP is more than social conservatives parrying with establishment Republicans. It is a pantomime that has many actors performing on a number of stages, but with only one clown: libertarians. Libertarians are a funny bunch. By funny I mean ignorant not only of basic economics but also the ride they've been taken on by the Christian Right and the neo-Confederates within the Republican Party.

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Doc_Sarvis

 

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Since 2010, state legislatures have put forward nearly 200 bills challenging federal laws its sponsors deem unconstitutional. Typically, laws the nullifiers believe challenge "religious liberty," the Affordable Care Act and gun control. ...

While libertarianism comes in many forms, its central tenet is that government should be confined to looking after the military, national security and the judicial system. David Boaz, who is the vice president of the Koch brothers-funded think-tank, the Cato Institute, defines libertarianism as "the view that each person has the right to live his life in any way he chooses so long as he respects the equal rights of others."

In reality, libertarianism means corporations having more equal rights than people.

Libertarians are drawn to Ron Paul because he appeals to their anti-military and anti-drug war sensibilities, but they've been duped.

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"The South and the Christian Right is fixated on everything related to controlling race, sex, religious practice, abortion laws, and the repeal of every progressive law that has come out of the federal government," writes author Werleman. "Unwittingly, Ron Paul libertarians have been swept up in this theocratic, Southern white power, nullification movement. This alliance threatens to rip the Republican Party apart, as well as the Union itself."

Libertarianism and the nullification movement merge seamlessly with the Christian Right, because the "sacralized ‘lost cause' of the South is often undergirded by Christian Reconstructionism," writes [PRA research fellow Rachel] Tabachnick. Reconstructionism, or Dominionism, is an ideology that calls on Christians to take over the federal government and then make the laws of the nation "biblical."

Chris Hedges, author of American Fascists, writes, "It seeks to reduce government to organizing little more than defense, internal security and the protection of property rights. It fuses with the Christian religion the iconography and language of American imperialism and nationalism, along with the cruelest aspects of corporate capitalism."

Reconstructionism merges Christianity with laissez-faire capitalism to arrive at a vision of government that endorses biblical law at the local level, alongside a limited federal government. Essentially that makes it the perfect philosophy for wedding theocrats in an unholy marriage with libertarians and Old Dixie.


The take-away?
Ultimately, the Republican Party's civil war will be long and protracted, especially given the vast sums of money involved in determining a winner. The Chamber of Commerce's war chest and Karl Rove's epic fundraising will only go so far in overcoming a triumvirate that not only has boots on the ground in the form of enthusiastic ballot box lever pullers, but also the financial backing of America's most prominent libertarians: Charles and David Koch.

#1 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-01-30 10:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

Oh look, another God hater disguised as an intellectual. Their regressivism is destroying the nation so they need somebody to blame. And its funny how now, libertarians are now the big bad wolves of the nation. It would be hilarious if it wasn't so destructive.

#2 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-01-30 10:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

"another God hater"

Do you by any chance know Fred Phelps?

#3 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2014-01-30 11:02 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

"In reality, libertarianism means corporations having more equal rights than people."

Bingo!

When money is speech (and justice in a court) and, "corporations are people (citizens), too, my friend", then you have what we have today, rule by corporitists and 1 percenters.

#4 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 11:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

"In reality, [rightwing] libertarianism means corporations having more equal rights than people. "

Fixed.

#5 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-01-30 11:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

Do you by any chance know Fred Phelps?


You mean that guy from the church of satan? Why? You attend his church?

#6 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-01-30 11:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

"In reality, anarchism means corporations having more equal rights than people. "

Fixed.

#7 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 11:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

#5: Bingo! A true libertarian should be neither rightwing nor leftwing. In true libertarianism, there is no need for political differentiation.

#8 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-01-30 11:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

- true libertarianism,

Kinda like a perfect person. It doesn't exist in the real world.

And anarchy would be even better for the powerful.

#9 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 11:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

"A true libertarian should be neither rightwing nor leftwing. "

Well, Daniel, there is a distinction. Left-libertarians like, say, Noam Chomsky are anti-authoritarian and anti-capitalist to greater or lesser degrees. Right-libertarianism, on the other hand, is an American invention, and is strongly pro-capitalist and should properly be called "propertarianism." Both strands share an aversion to the national security/surveillance state and foreign imperialism, however.

#10 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-01-30 11:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

"This alliance threatens to rip the Republican Party apart, as well as the Union itself."

well, I suspect that things are going to get worse for the GOP before they'll get better and for the reasons mentioned in the article.

"Ultimately, the Republican Party's civil war will be long and protracted, especially given the vast sums of money involved in determining a winner."

I don't know if that's completely true. I don't think those cash rich factions are gonna continue to throw good money after bad for long.

Think what you want of the Koch brothers.....but they're too smart to do that.

#11 | Posted by eberly at 2014-01-30 11:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

Philosophically, there are many versions of libertarianism. Those of us on the left stand for the same social freedom - the old my right to swing my fist ends at your nose idea. In other words, freedom to do anything so long as it does not directly harm someone else. Right libertarians mostly seem to share this sentiment.

The difference is that to a right libertarian (propertarian) someone basically has a right to do something like buy up an entire shore's property line and limit the freedoms of others from going there. To a LL, this would be infringing on the rights of others. We're much more anti-capitalism, because of that and the fact that the very nature of capitalism is that once one person achieves enough success they develop the ability to prevent competition and become monopolistic. Which again, limits the freedoms of others. To a RL, that's alright though, because they should somehow have the right to limit other's rights. They're strange that way.

#12 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-01-30 11:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

#12 Correct me if I'm wrong Zero but, doesn't your definition of LL equate to socialism? Not meant as a snark.

#13 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-01-30 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

All you're going to get is my position out of this, not some consensus among libertarians, because that doesn't exist lol.

Libertarian socialism is indeed sometimes a term for left libertarian. Not always, but it's close to my stance. You'll find me siding with reproductive rights right alongside gun rights, for instance. I believe in only limited military for defense within our borders. Government only big enough to assist in the general welfare, not to legislate morality and spy on its own citizens. But I also believe in society, in doing positive things - from roads and libraries, to far more investment in schooling and training keep our nation competitive in the world market. I think proceeds from our finite natural resources should belong to all the people, and not individuals, certainly not corporations. If you want more, the Wikipedia article on libertarian socialism is a good start, but we're talking ideals, not inviolable religious tenets.

#14 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-01-30 02:54 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Why do you always drag libertarians into this bag of mixed nuts?

#15 | Posted by kudzu at 2014-01-30 03:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

What a load of crap. Every libertarian I know doesn't see corporations as viable entities. And they certainly don't want gov't in bed with them.

Liberals are just jealous when their libertarian cousin is not in bed with them.

#16 | Posted by kudzu at 2014-01-30 03:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let me guess, libertarianism is just social darwinism in drag?

#17 | Posted by kudzu at 2014-01-30 03:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

" Every libertarian I know doesn't see corporations as viable entities"

Like Ayn "big business is America's persecuted minority" Rand?

#18 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-01-30 04:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

" I think proceeds from our finite natural resources should belong to all the people, and not individuals, certainly not corporations. "

And that's a key distinction between right-libertarians AKA propertarians and left-libertarians. Right-libertarians place property rights above all others.

#19 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-01-30 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Right-libertarians place property rights above all others.

So, you are ok with the government coming in and taking someones land thats been in their family for generations?

#20 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-01-30 04:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So, you are ok with the government coming in and taking someones land thats been in their family for generations?"

You talking about European colonialists who slaughtered Native Americans and stole their land?

#21 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-01-30 04:59 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

I think proceeds from our finite natural
resources should belong to all the
people, and not individuals, certainly
not corporations.
#14| POSTED BY ZEROPOINTNRG

I'll point out that if those finite natural resources are on private property they are not "ours" they're the property of the property owner, and one of the few legitimate concerns of the government should be to protect his/her/their exclusive rights to the property

"Propertarian" is not a pejorative

#22 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2014-01-30 05:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

#22 | POSTED BY TXLIBERTARIAN AT 2014-01-30 05:14 PM | FLAG:

You don't understand your own government if you believe that. Try not paying your rent, er, taxes sometime and see who the real owner is. And I agree with you about everything you grow on your land. You put work into that, your deserve the proceeds. But mineral rights, oil, what's under the land, plus how public lands are used, that belongs to everyone. Nor, just because you buy into the illusion of land "ownership" does that make it real or even the most time-tested paradigm. The natives who soil we stand on often didn't even believe you could own land.

#23 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-01-30 05:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

#23 | POSTED BY ZEROPOINTNRG

"You don't understand your own government if you believe that. Try not paying your rent, er, taxes sometime and see who the real owner is."

If I don't pay my property taxes, I can't expect the Government to protect my property rights now can I? For this reason, paying property taxes for the protection of property rights is acceptable.

"But mineral rights, oil, what's under the land, plus how public lands are used, that belongs to everyone."

No, what's under my land is mine, not everyone's or anyone's unless I sold them the mineral rights or didn't purchase the mineral rights when the land was procured. Public lands I can agree with you on. Although I'm not a big fan of the Government owning huge swaths of land for no other reason than to keep private individuals from owning it.

"Nor, just because you buy into the illusion of land "ownership" does that make it real or even the most time-tested paradigm."

Property rights are in my opinion the most important rights, without them all other rights are rather meaningless.

"The natives who soil we stand on often didn't even believe you could own land"

That concept worked out great for them...

#24 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2014-01-30 06:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

That concept worked out great for them...
#24 | POSTED BY TXLIBERTARIAN AT 2014-01-30 06:14 PM | FLAG:

Oh. Ok. Simply a hypocrite. Fine with taking property from others by force and deceit, but fully expect your own protected. By the government you think exists for that purpose alone. I'm afraid that is the perfect example of why "propertarian" is in fact, pejorative.

A libertarian's first priority should be what is at the root of the term - liber - liberty. Freedom. The collective fiction of property ownership is exclusionary. Combined with capitalism and its natural tendency to funnel money up, it creates monopolies and dynasties which are inherently oppressive and limit the freedom all who come after. The only way to take that freedom back then, is to agree on a different collective fiction. The old concept of "the commons." Public property, public lands, that which is useable, but not ownable by the individual.

I find that important to bring back up, because propertarian views are intersecting with another atspect of modern society: productivity levels, which are at the highest they've ever been, even as the percentage of our society not working also aims for the highest it could be. This is only going to increase with time, and eventually a few will own all the means of production with no need for labor, and at that point, with no need to employ anyone, there will also be no demand, and society will quite literally implode. We have to think up a new paradigm before that happens, or we will face either anarchy and riots - the kind of society no one wants - or the oppression of the few, employing militaristic means to protect their oh-so-precious property. An end result directly at odds to the goal of freedom.

#25 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-01-30 07:04 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 2

We have to think up a new paradigm before that happens, or we will face either anarchy and riots - the kind of society no one wants - or the oppression of the few, employing militaristic means to protect their oh-so-precious property. An end result directly at odds to the goal of freedom.
#25 | POSTED BY ZEROPOINTNRG

Artificial General Intelligence is on the horizon and not many economists know how to approach that variable. Far too much uncertainty, obviously. Yet still the most significant variable that in which our society faces in the VERY near future. What do we do with a human labor force when human labor is no longer in demand?

#26 | Posted by rstybeach11 at 2014-01-30 07:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Artificial General Intelligence is on the horizon and not many economists know how to approach that variable. Far too much uncertainty, obviously. Yet still the most significant variable that in which our society faces in the VERY near future. What do we do with a human labor force when human labor is no longer in demand?

#26 | POSTED BY RSTYBEACH11 AT 2014-01-30 07:15 PM | FLAG:

So that's the name now? Never knew it. Just can see the end result of current trends clearly. Lol, just put more or less what I wrote here on your other thread pertaining to this too. Fascinating. Definitely have to check out the book that thread mentions.

#27 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2014-01-30 07:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

#25 | POSTED BY ZEROPOINTNRG

"Oh. Ok. Simply a hypocrite. Fine with taking property from others by force and deceit, but fully expect your own protected"

Wait,I thought you said they didn't believe it was their property. So how can something that doesn't belong to them be taken from them? Plus I don't plan on moving and do you?

"By the government you think exists for that purpose alone."

Nice strawman...I never said that the Government exists for that purpose alone. I did say it was one of the few legitimate concerns of the government but not the lone one. You know who else believed that? James Madison who wrote in Federalist 54

"Government is instituted no less for the protection of the property than of the persons of individuals."

And in his speech to the Virginia Convention

"It is sufficiently obvious, that persons and property are the two great subjects on which Governments are to act; and that the rights of persons, and the rights of property, are the objects, for the protection of which Government was instituted. These rights cannot well be separated. The personal right to acquire property, which is a natural right, gives to property, when acquired, a right to protection, as a social right."

"I'm afraid that is the perfect example of why "propertarian" is in fact, pejorative."

James Madison was an OG propertarian. I'll throw my lot in with him and the other propertarians and wear that badge with honor.

#28 | Posted by TXLIBERTARIAN at 2014-01-30 07:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Why GOP's Civil War Is Only Going to Get Uglier'

Ann Coulter got another TV gig?

#29 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-01-31 02:01 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

#29

That's hilarious, Harry.

#30 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-31 02:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Tip your waitresses. If you're drinking don't drive, if you're driving don't drink.

#31 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-01-31 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Doc, my friend, you know I've liked you since old Buck was a calf, but you are way off base here. I 'll explain;

#32 | Posted by kudzu at 2014-02-04 07:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

"The personal right to acquire property, which is a natural right, gives to property, when acquired, a right to protection, as a social right."

And with it the "right" to share in the costs of that protection in a proportionate amount to the property being protected. Conservatives have contrived to avoid the costs of protecting the property they own yet believe it should still be safe from those who would take it from them. They will someday regret their stinginess.

#33 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-04 07:55 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

The coming great divide is about more than the GOP.

I would suggest that we the people are in desperate need of a showdown with both Parties because neither one works for America. They work for the Chamber, Wall St money, or Israel.

When Obama signs another costly "TPP - Screw Americans Trade Bill", the "Oil for China" Keystone Pipeline, and the "Unemploy and Reduce Wages for Americans Act" aka Immigration reform, Americans will be the ones hurt and many Democrats will be conflicted.

To illustrate how pathetic and unresponsive both Parties are to Americans, our do nothing Congress of American seconders (on both sides of the aisle) was suddenly brought to attention and under heel using the choke chain leash of the Israel Lobby, to immediately enact legislation and a showdown with the American Studies Association because of their boycott of Israel's academic institutions over apartheid policies.

www.timesofisrael.com

We need to toss them all out, and demand their replacements sign a pledge that their allegiance is only to we the people of America.

#34 | Posted by Robson at 2014-02-04 01:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Libertarian movement is basically a movement ageist an unbridled federal government. Higher and higher taxes, regulation, and intrusion into our lives. They are extremely suspicious of anyone who states they desire to expand the roll of the federal government, will not address deficit spending or would take military action where our national interest is in doubt. They are winning around 70% of the elections they win nomination to. They are crushing the establishment Republicans. I do not have any idea how this movement will play out, but in the market place of ideas, they are growing in power wile the traditional Republicans and the progressive/Democrats are being reduced to insignificance. New ideas are like fresh air when people are frustrated and uncertain. At they don't call for mass executions like I remember the 99%/OWS stating numerous times.

#35 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-02-04 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Libertarian movement is basically... a catch-all for disgruntled Republicans.

#36 | Posted by Corky at 2014-02-04 02:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

ALWAYS have doubts about anyone with Utopian ideas, who also carry guns to enforce those policies. The power of the state is the monopoly on sanctioned violence.

#37 | Posted by docnjo at 2014-02-04 02:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

The poll, from the Public Religion Research Institute, shows just 7 percent of Americans are "consistent" libertarians, but that another 15 percent sympathize with its general principles.

The poll also shows libertarians identify much more with the GOP (43 percent) than with the Democratic Party (5 percent), but half identify with neither party.

The libertarian movement is largely homogeneous. It is strongly non-Hispanic white (94 percent), young (62 percent under 50 years old) and male (68 percent).

About four in 10 identify as members of the tea party movement (39 percent), while 61 percent do not. More Republicans identify with the tea party (20 percent) than with libertarians (12 percent).

www.washingtonpost.com

Like I said, disenchanted Republicans.

#38 | Posted by Corky at 2014-02-04 02:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Like I said, disenchanted Republicans.

#38 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2014-02-04 02:36 PM | FLAG: CLOSE BUT NO CIGAR

Great article Corky. I think current batch of libertarians are republiclowns that sold the country out for a two hundred dollar rebate. They are same group who dressed themselves up and went to church and prayed to Jesus to give Bush a swift victory in Iraq. They were the same people who accused anyone not toeing the line for the clown brigade hated America and was a treasonist, satanic, muslim, communist, nazi, anti christ, socialist, troop haters bent on the destruction of the nation.

Then around May of 2008 their world unraveled and so they took on the libertarian mantle more from cowardice than from principle. They hid behind the name in an effort to hide from the damage they wrought upon their own country and try to give themselves some credibility in discussing how things should be handled from now on. Too bad its sosdd. They disengage themselves from Bush by saying they didn't support the bail outs (but are severely happy their retirement savings bounced back from the precipice). They tout laissez faire sans the nads to see it through and will hammer on any kind of social reform as the sounds of communism pounding at the door aiming to swallow us whole. They are the liars repeating the lies and pretending its a fresh idea whose time has come. The ones who get all uppity about "Obama lies" and the cowards whose hyperboles signal the call to arms over the petty while vilifying the poor, including working poor without batting an eye.

Never mind that those whom they hold up as the beacons of capitalism and the promise of trickle down take their tax savings in order to leak elsewhere.

With rare exception they are not the disenchanted republiclowns they are the 30-40 something cowards hiding behind a name desperate for a do over because they fell in line behind losers. Most of them haven't learned a thing.

Todays libertarian is lipstick on the same old pig.

#39 | Posted by RightisTrite at 2014-02-04 05:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

#39: LOL You're a hoot!

#40 | Posted by Daniel at 2014-02-04 05:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here is your reality:

1. the oil is running out

2. because of this america has been in a disguised depression since 1970 or so.

3. world peak oil was reached in 2004 or so

4. stealing oil from other countries through war will no longer work; see #3

5. the fascisti won't do anything real about it because those things(solar/etc) would decrease centralized, and thus their control of the world.

6. more bread and circuses(see political selections).

7. stupid sheeple get less.

8. hope and change morons.

#41 | Posted by Shawn at 2014-02-04 07:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#41 Are you George Carlin reincarnated? Most of the sheeple out there have their heads stuck in the sand. Too bad for them and us but they can't help it.

There are two kinds of average schmucks. Those who are pretty much content with the status quo, because they'll go along to get along. No rocking of the establishment boat.

Those that are not satisfied with the SQ, corruption and incompetence because they believe country and society deserve more such as honesty, competence and opportunity. The latter sometimes turn into whistle blowers like Snowden, while the former are always what they are.

#42 | Posted by Robson at 2014-02-04 08:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

As Democrats tank the "civil war" in the Republican party rages on!

#43 | Posted by KBM at 2014-02-05 08:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

" Every libertarian I know doesn't see corporations as viable entities"

Like Ayn "big business is America's persecuted minority" Rand?

#18 | Posted by nullifidian

Ayn Rand was not referring to the mega multi-national corporations of today. Big Business to folks in Ayn Rand's day was anything over 1000 employees.

#44 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-05 10:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

#39 | Posted by RightisTrite

Trite,
I think you are a mean and cynical fart who really needs to move to France. Live there for a while, say about 10 years or so. Enough time to experience this socialist "thing" that you want so bad. It will change your mind. I will guarantee that.

#45 | Posted by LastAmerican at 2014-02-05 10:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

I will guarantee that.

#45 | Posted by LastAmerican

How do you know? Have you ever been to France?

I really enjoyed my time there. A lot of Ex-pats live there.

#46 | Posted by donnerboy at 2014-02-05 07:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Debt ceiling debate within the GOP is coming up, this will be an opportunity for the crazies to demand that the GOP "get something" for agreeing to raise the debt ceiling while more reasonable Republicans are saying, "no, just raise it without the drama." Tea Partiers will feel they are becoming irrelevant if they don't make a big stink. Buy popcorn, the show will be starting soon.

#47 | Posted by danni at 2014-02-05 08:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Forget any connection between the Silicon Valley tech billionaires and libertarian worldviews. A court case alleges that Apple, Google, and other Silicon Valley powerhouses actively conspired to keep their workers' wages down. According to documents filed in the case, these companies agreed not to compete for each others' workers dating at least as far back as 2005. Workers in the industry have filed a class action suit that could lead to the payment of billions of dollars in lost wages.

This point is central to their argument that the government should not interfere with corporate practices. If we think our local cable company is charging too much for cable access, our libertarian friends insist that the phone company, and satellite television always keep prices low and stable through competition. Its the same BS about regulating the airlines, banks, health insurance, or any other sector with alleged competition.

They would tell the same story about wages. If workers wages are too low the answer is to improve their skills through education and training, rather than raise the minimum wage. If workers were worth more than the minimum wage, then the market would already be paying them more than the minimum wage. Yeah sure Google and Apple execs must be laughing their asses off over that argument.

We live in a country where lying is a prerequisite to any high office.

#48 | Posted by nutcase at 2014-02-05 11:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

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