Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, January 29, 2014

Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran, Pakistan -- there is a long list of countries where Hillary Clinton has championed the use of American military power. But the U.S. is rather sick of bullets and bombs and Clinton's penchant for militarism, taken with her ties to high finance and more conservative wings of the Democratic Party, leave yet another opening on the left of the presumed presidential candidate

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As Secretary of State, Clinton backed a bold escalation of the Afghanistan war. She pressed Obama to arm the Syrian rebels, and later endorsed air strikes against the Assad regime. She backed intervention in Libya, and her State Department helped enable Obama's expansion of lethal drone strikes. In fact, Clinton may have been the administration's most reliable advocate for military action. On at least three crucial issues -- Afghanistan, Libya, and the bin Laden raid -- Clinton took a more aggressive line than Gates, a Bush-appointed Republican.

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Former administration officials also tell TIME that Clinton was an advocate for maintaining a residual troop force after the U.S. withdrawal from Iraq -- an issue of renewed interest given al Qaeda's resurgence there. They also describe her as skeptical of diplomacy with Iran, and firmly opposed to talk of a "containment" policy that would be an alternative to military action should negotiations with Tehran fail.

#1 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-01-29 02:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

These are getting as easy to spot as Babbles rantings.

#2 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2014-01-29 02:12 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Hearsay!
-Corky

#3 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-01-29 02:16 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

No surprise here. Hillary! will continue America's nasty habit of wasting trillions abroad on imperialistic adventures.

Obama suggested he was anti-war and turned out not to be. Hillary! doesn't even pretend.

#4 | Posted by JOE at 2014-01-29 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

In all seriousness, Hillary's hawkishness may be a product of her experiences. Most of us has never been shot at. Remember, Hillary has had to dodge sniper fire while performing her duties. That kind of experience could easily make one more hawkish. Don't judge Hillary until you've walked a mile in her cankles.

#5 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-29 03:13 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 4

It could be the experience of having been a Senator from NY on 911.

But people who have no such responsibilities, or accomplishments, are often dismissive of those who do.

#6 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-29 03:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"It could be the experience of having been a Senator from NY on 911."

I was born in NY. I have family in NY. I have friends in NY. I know people who were working in that complex on 9/11. I watched the 2nd plane hit and the towers fall with my own eyes. I lived in area from which I could see the wreckage smoldering for weeks after the attack.

The idea that Hillary Clinton was any more affected by 9/11 than me or my friends and family is absurd.

And none of us have developed a fetish for getting involved in foreign civil wars - let alone for arming Al Qaeda while doing so.

So next squawking point please, this one sucks.

#7 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-29 05:20 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Nice deflection, but again:

"people who have no such responsibilities, or accomplishments, are often dismissive of those who do."

Perhaps if you were accomplished enough to be responsible for the security of millions of people, you wouldn't be so quick to cast the first stone.

OK, you prolly would.

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-29 06:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So next squawking point please, this one sucks."

Let's be fair Sully, you don't bear any responsibility to prevent any such future attacks. As Sec. of State Hillary did. Look at how she was attacked over Benghazi, just imagine if an attack made it all the way to NYC again and she had opposed a drone strike on the perpetrators while still back in Afghanistan. I don't put HIllary on a pedestal but she also isn't some evil bitch who just likes to kill people.

#9 | Posted by danni at 2014-01-29 06:25 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

In the story summary, what do you call the part of speech for the thing that came after the first sentence, Whatever it is, that one is a doobie. I mean, a doozie.

#10 | Posted by DixvilleNotch at 2014-01-29 11:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't put HIllary on a pedestal but she also isn't some evil bitch who just likes to kill people.

#9 | POSTED BY DANNI

I don't think she is evil either, but clearly she isn't a fan of free speech or the truth.

The whole "video" thing is what is upsetting. I know you like to you think we believe she could have prevented it, but that really its that she sticks to the "video" story......
www.youtube.com

She is a joke.......

#11 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-01-29 11:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Let's be fair Sully, you don't bear any responsibility to prevent any such future attacks. As Sec. of State Hillary did."

Arming members of Al Qaeda and helping them conquer territory is a funny way of preventing future Al Qaeda attacks.

You want to be fair? Fairness involves obejective critical thinking.

#12 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 09:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

Corky's argument is completely vapid blabber, BTW.

"Durrr, she has an important job so she's automatically right"

I'd say its a waste of effort but how much effort could go into something so completely without merit....

#13 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 09:31 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Arming members of Al Qaeda and helping them conquer territory is a funny way of preventing future Al Qaeda attacks.

It is pretty stupid to do so. Reagan did it with Mujahadeen and look how it backfired on 9/11. The idiots in Washington never learn from their own mistakes. They are convinced that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" while overlooking that they are still our enemy and once they have achieved their objective with our help, will turn their focus to attacking us.

-------- one and all.

#14 | Posted by 726 at 2014-01-30 09:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Durrr, she has an important job so she's automatically right"

Another strawman from one of the world's leading producers.

Completely non-reflective of what I said; "Perhaps if you were accomplished enough to be responsible for the security of millions of people, you wouldn't be so quick to cast the first stone."

#15 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 10:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

"people who have no such responsibilities, or accomplishments, are often dismissive of those who do."

Perhaps if you were accomplished enough to be responsible for the security of millions of people, you wouldn't be so quick to cast the first stone.

OK, you prolly would.

#8 | Posted by Corky

Bush was responsible for the security of millions after 9/11, Hillary was right behind Bush calling for revenge. Yet in your mind the wars are all Bush's fault. talk about casting stone. god D*** you're such a hack!

#16 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-30 11:03 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Hillary Clinton Likes to Bomb People

hillary is just getting back at all those third world brown people who forced her to marry bill clinton in order to get into the halls of power...

#17 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 11:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

hillary clinton is george w bush only with slightly thicker cankles.

#18 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 11:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

-Hillary was right behind Bush calling for revenge.

All of us were lied into war by Bush/Rove, no one else.

#19 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 11:10 AM | Reply | Flag:

#19 | Posted by Corky
Corky after 9/11 the whole country was running around with stupid little flags waving on their imports. Every News channel had BOTH sides on TV seeing who could beat their chest the loudest. When he did what the country wanted and it turned to ----, all of a sudden one side when brain dead and thought Bush did this on his own.

#20 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-30 11:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

Bush/Rove had the intel, and lied us into war.

Clinton commented afterwards that she was shocked that Bush lied to her and other Senators about the WMD intel in face to face meetings

#21 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 11:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Completely non-reflective of what I said; "Perhaps if you were accomplished enough to be responsible for the security of millions of people, you wouldn't be so quick to cast the first stone."

#15 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 10:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

My comment was a distilled version of the above blabber.

You're forwarding the idea that reaching her positon of authority is an achievement that puts her above criticism from anyone who hasn't reach a similar position of authority. In other words: People in important positions are above criticism.

Stick a sock in it, my rewording of your argument is not what made it horrible. This ------ idea behind it is what makes it horrible.

#22 | Posted by sully at 2014-01-30 11:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

How does Corky's argument not put Bush above any and all criticism for Iraq or anything else? Bush was in an important position that affected the security of millions. According to Corky, anyone who hasn't been president can't cast any stones....

#23 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Yeah keep thinking that way. Funny how she still thinks all them countries are evil and need to be bombed while she was Sec of State. guess Obama was lying to her.

#24 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-30 11:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

question-- which side, the head or the tail side, defines what makes a quarter?
if you answered "both sides" then you be right!

another question: which side, republican or democrat, was responsible for the iraq invasion?
if you answered, "both sides" you be right again!

so keep arguing over sides-- i'll continue to focus on and blame both.

#25 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 11:31 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

-a distilled version

A strawman by any other names smells as bad, lol.

-puts her above criticism

I can't tell if you just can't help yourself from making strawmen or if your reading comprehension is just terrible.

Or more likely that you have no retort to what was actually said and have to change what was said.

I in no way said, indicated, or implied that anyone was, "above criticism."

"Perhaps if you were accomplished enough to be responsible for the security of millions of people, you wouldn't be so quick to cast the first stone."

Which, since you apparently need translation, means that had you been in her position, you might not be so quick to castigate her motives.

But then, old Clinton Haters never die, they just smell like it.

#26 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Clinton commented afterwards that she was shocked that Bush lied to her and other Senators about the WMD intel in face to face meetings"

the very idea that a politician, who, more than anyone, should know that politicians lie, would innocently believe something said by another politician, especially one from the other side of the aisle, and especially when it deals with war and killing people, is a complete and utter crock of ---- softserve....

#27 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 11:36 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

so keep arguing over sides-- i'll continue to focus on and blame both.

#25 | Posted by NerfHerder
Corky take off your rose colored glasses and read what Nerfheader said.

#28 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-30 11:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

#27

You prolly have a favorite flavor....

#29 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 11:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

#28

You should go back to the noon time thread where you are safe.

When the POTUS looks you in the eye and tells you about some important national sec intel that you don't have access to, you get to believe him or not.

Most of these Senators did.

#30 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 11:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

You prolly have a favorite flavor....

#29 | Posted by Corky
You PROLLY ran out of Hillary defense points.

#31 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-30 11:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

You should go back to the noon time thread where you are safe.
#30 | Posted by Corky
The only ones who fear you are frogs.

#32 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-30 11:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Most of these Senators did.""

of course. they wanted to look patriotic and get re-elected. they have their own agendas, and it is usually has nothing to do with what's moral, what's best for the nation's longterm security, and definitely not what is best for the american people.

there was quite a bit of info out there in the media that put a high suspicion of doubt on the bush administration claims. the democrats did not do due diligence.

#33 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 11:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

"there was quite a bit of info out there in the media that put a high suspicion of doubt on the bush administration claims. the democrats did not do due diligence."

here's one example: content.time.com

#34 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 11:50 AM | Reply | Flag:

#33

"Perhaps if you were accomplished enough to be responsible for the security of millions of people, you wouldn't be so quick to cast the first stone."

I know most of the coolest kids these days on the Retort are the most cynical ones, the "they are all the same" ones, but perhaps you might consider a a different perspective ...

www.drudge.com

"We have wrapped ourselves in a straight-jacket of cynicism."

#35 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 11:51 AM | Reply | Flag:

Nerf, you're beating a dead horse. Hillary is a GOD.

#36 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-30 11:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

"We have wrapped ourselves in a straight-jacket of cynicism"

when obama says "we" he employs it as an empty rhetorical term-- it stands for neither him or me.

#37 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 11:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Nerf, you're beating a dead horse"

no, i'm beating a dying dinosaur overdue for a healthy drubbing of frustration-inspired euthanasia ...

#38 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 12:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

Obama didn't say that, Joe Klein did, about the media.

Reading, it's Fun-damental.

#39 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 12:01 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Reading, it's Fun-damental."

my bad. usually you are no more than a spasmic large colon swiftly passing along obama-bytes...

#40 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 12:06 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

my vote for the democratic party's 2016 election slogan:

democrats: at least we aren't the republicans.

#41 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 12:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Usually you you are no more than a failed attempt at humor.

#42 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 12:08 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

-democrats: at least we aren't the republicans.

In the real world of slim margins, that is a valuable asset.

Of course, in the perfect world of cynics, ideologues (and clowns, apparently), it IS rather bland.

#43 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

#40 | Posted by NerfHerder
Corky has a hard time laughing at himself. So I'll laugh at him for you. I think is was funny.

#44 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-30 12:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Which, since you apparently need translation, means that had you been in her position, you might not be so quick to castigate her motives."

Bullcrap. Your original comment clearly referred to me (or anyone else who has not been Sec of State) as not "accomplished enough" to criticize her. Your nose was rubbed in that mess and now you're backing away.

And I haven't questioned her motives at all. I don't know why she is a hawk who at the same time likes arming Al Qaeda. I couldn't begin to guess at her motives.

I've always criticized her actions. Her motives are irrelevant if her acitons are destructive.

#45 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 12:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

-as not "accomplished enough" to criticize her.

Same strawman, different day.

#46 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 12:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

- likes arming Al Qaeda

lol, the drama queenery is massive.

#47 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 12:21 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

Hillary is just another warmed over casserole of the establishment. What the heck does anyone think?

#48 | Posted by matsop at 2014-01-30 12:22 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"in the perfect world of cynics...""

to the cynic, the world is imperfect.
to the ideologue, the world can someday become perfect
to the clown, perfection is imperfect

#49 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 12:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

"another warmed over casserole of the establishment"

more like a thick-thighed depression day dinner.

would-be voters sigh as they switch the lever in the booth saying, "well, it ain't at all appetizing, but, like an old leather shoe to a member of the donner party, at least it's somewhat edible."

really, is that the best we can do?

#50 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 12:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

to the cynic and the ideologue, the world will never be to their liking, much-less perfect.
to the clown, his belly button is perfect.

#51 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 12:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

#50 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 12:28 PM | Reply |

It's kind of depressing to think of 2016; in fact; it's downright depressing to think of 2008-2014.

#52 | Posted by matsop at 2014-01-30 12:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

-really, is that the best we can do?

Good question.

What are your policy solutions?

Or is being content to constantly describe the problems like so many here your only contribution?

#53 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 12:31 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1 | Newsworthy 1

To a clown Hillary is beyond reproach.

#54 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-30 12:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#54

To the simple-minded, Patron is a Saint.

#55 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 12:36 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

hillary should be a reporter. that way, when she asks michael grimm a real question, and he threatens to throw her off the f'n balcony, she can quickly retort, "good luck lifting me up..."

#56 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 12:44 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 2

Patron is a Saint.

#55 | Posted by Corky at
Please go back to worshiping Hillary. tho shall not worship false gods.

#57 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-30 12:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

"really, is that the best we can do?"

As long as the state is owned by corporate America, yes. The plutocracy can't be voted out of power. A truly massive general strike, like in Paris, 1968, is the minimum requirement.

#58 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-01-30 12:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The plutocracy can't be voted out of power."

perhaps we can demote them from planetary status then...

#59 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 12:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

- The plutocracy can't be voted out of power.

Of course it can. We voted in 90 percent tax rates at one time, public financing can be attained the same way, and CU can be overturned along with other changes.

- like in Paris, 1968,

www.npr.org

We had our own awaking in '68, with similar resultant optimism that brought some results.... not that France today is any mecca of progressive politics.

hillary standing up to regressives

www.youtube.com

#60 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 12:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

#61

Answer #53. That might really be funny.

#62 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 01:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

"What are your policy solutions?"

that's too generalized. crawl out of hillary's knickers for a minute and ask me a more specific question and i'll give you an answer.

otherwise, make like your name and bottle up your continuous cascade of carbonated clinton crush...

#63 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Corky is asking for policy solutions to problems people like Hillary are creating out of thin air.

What is the solution to the US getting involved in foreign civil wars that don't concern us, drain our resources and empower are greatest enemy?

Stop getting involved. Problem solved.

Its like asking for a solution to the problem of getting burned from touching a hot stove. The answer is self evident: Stop touching the hot stove.

#64 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

" ask me a more specific question and i'll give you an answer."

It doesn't matter what answer you give, he'll say "electable" or "capable of passing congress" solutions.

#65 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-01-30 01:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

i look down upon hillary much like ol' bill once looked down upon her, and when i also think about corky voting for her in 2016, i think to myself (as bill obviously once did) "what a sucker"

#66 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

" and Pot Stamps."

More ad hominem from the usual source.

#68 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-01-30 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"lol, simple minds love simple solutions.

Too bad the world isn't simple, eh?"

Some things are simple.

Pretending that there are complexities involved that you couldn't begin to articulate specifically is not very impressive. You're an obvious fraud trying the same bluff that you've been called on dozens of times.

#69 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 02:33 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

-Pretending that there are complexities involved

No complexities in the world?

Not to isolationists who can't see past their nose.

#70 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 02:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

"No complexities in the world?"

Nobody said that. Perhaps the best way to respond to being called out as a fraud isn't to tell even more obvious lies.

#71 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 03:01 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"Stop getting involved. Problem solved."

It doesn't get any more simple-minded than that.

Non-involvement in the world is so 18th century.

#72 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 03:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Non-involvement in the world is so 18th century"

wasn't that the same century in which our own revolution happened, some of the greatest american minds were alive in, and our constitution written in?

the u.s. constitution-- PAH! so 18th century!!!

#73 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 03:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Of course it can. We voted in 90 percent tax rates at one time, public financing can be attained the same way, and CU can be overturned along with other changes.

Bullcrap. This ain't 1945 anymore.

The cost of running for senate or POTUS guarantees anyone that will make it to the ticket will be OWNED by the 1%. If the 1% don't want it, it won't happen.

Big profits in war to big campaign donors.

Dead G.I.'s don't really matter so much as the $$$$$ that is "donated."

#74 | Posted by 726 at 2014-01-30 03:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

People who can't tell the difference between imperialism and interacting with the world seem to have wet themselves over Bush's Excellent Iraq Adventure, and may never dry out.

#75 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 03:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

#72

That's --------. We need to stop policing the rest of the world at the cost of our own country.

We need to bring back all our troops, stop giving tax payer money to other countries and start rebuilding our country.

We care more about tragedy and injustice in the other side of the planet than we do about tragedy and injustice right here in America.

We must, must, stop getting involved. There's too much to fix here to be spending so much energy and resources dealing with what's happening elsewhere.

#76 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-01-30 03:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"people who can't tell the difference between imperialism and interacting with the world"

like obama, for example.

#77 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 03:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

-anyone that will make it to the ticket will be OWNED by the 1%.

Tell it to Joe Biden.

- If the 1% don't want it, it won't happen.

A well delineated problem that requires more solutions and less whining.

#78 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 03:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

#77

and Corky.

#79 | Posted by eberly at 2014-01-30 03:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

-stop getting involved

www.youtube.com

#80 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 03:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Non-involvement in the world is so 18th century.

#72 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 03:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Nobody said not to get involved with "in the world" at all.

And that's still not a case for getting involved in foreign wars where we have nothing at stake - let alone arming Al Qaeda in doing so.

But we both you know that you already know this.

#81 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 03:40 PM | Reply | Flag:


People who can't tell the difference between imperialism and interacting with the world seem to have wet themselves over Bush's Excellent Iraq Adventure, and may never dry out.

#75 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 03:26 PM | Reply | Flag

Well apparently for you it is better to have the Obama excellent killing americans Iraq adventure.

More American soldiers have been killed under Obama in Iraq then during bush war adventure. The real American soldier killer is Obama but the lefties ignore that and push some idiocy old bush crap.

#82 | Posted by moneywar at 2014-01-30 03:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Also, at least bush cared about American soldiers lives, just look at Obama and Hillary and it is clear they are just fodder.

#83 | Posted by moneywar at 2014-01-30 03:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

arming Al Qaeda! arming Al Qaeda! Shmock! Shmock!

Seriously, man, get a new line. Or explain the deep dark conspiracy of the government intentionally arming massive numbers of AQ.

Some few may get weapons as we arm people fighting for democratic elections in their country, them's the hazards.

But they won't bivouac under your bed, I promise.

#84 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 03:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

-More American soldiers have been killed under Obama in Iraq then during bush war adventure.

You ran that lie up the flag pole already and several posters knocked it down for you. Do you need a repeat?

#85 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 03:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

"More American soldiers have been killed under Obama in Iraq then during bush war adventure."

I don't know but I thought it was presented recently that more have been killed under Obama but not in Iraq.

#86 | Posted by eberly at 2014-01-30 03:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Also, at least bush cared about American soldiers lives, just look at Obama and Hillary and it is clear they are just fodder.
#83 | POSTED BY MONEYWAR AT 2014-01-30 03:44 PM | FLAG:

Why would you resort to a -------- lie?

Nothing factual to argue with?

The only thing BushJr ever cared about was the quality of his cocaine.

#87 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-01-30 03:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Eberly you are correct, more have died between afganistan but the total over both Iraq and afganistan is still higher under Obama than entire war bush years.

It is a subject that the left media and the lefties avoid with dire political purpose.

During bush it was counted every day of every week and now we hear nothing, Obama is a soldier killer and is getting a free pass.

#88 | Posted by moneywar at 2014-01-30 04:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Seriously, man, get a new line. Or explain the deep dark conspiracy of the government intentionally arming massive numbers of AQ."

Its a known fact that they A) Gave guns to member ot Al Qaeda and B) Created the conditions in Libya that enabled AQ and other like minded groups to raid Kadaffi's stockpiles.

Its a known fact that Obama changed the law to allow himself to arm AQ before he changed his mind about how deeply we should be involved in Syria.

You keep trying to pretend that I am required to understand why they did this before I can say they did it and it was stupid. That's not a logical claim to make. We know these things have happened. I don't know why they did these things. To me, its inexplicably idiotic.

"Some few may get weapons as we arm people fighting for democratic elections in their country, them's the hazards."

Its not a few. Libya is overrun with extremist militias and they've been raiding weapon stores. You'd also have to be a total fool to not understand that third world revolutions often end with one form of tyranny replacing another regardless of whatever noble intentions started them.

"But they won't bivouac under your bed, I promise."

They've already killed Americans as a direct result of our invovlement in Libya. But keep pretending there haven't already been consequences....

#89 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 04:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

"During bush it was counted every day of every week and now we hear nothing,"

didn't we even have a thread on it here periodically?

#90 | Posted by eberly at 2014-01-30 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

575 US troops died in Afghanistan during the Bush presidency. By August 18, 2010, following two troop surges initiated by President Obama, that number had doubled. Today, over 1500 US troops have died in Afghanistan since President Obama took office -- and yet, little in that war-torn country has changed.

www.justforeignpolicy.org

Like to see the representative of corky prove this incorrect.

#91 | Posted by moneywar at 2014-01-30 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

-To me, its inexplicably idiotic

To you, helping people overthrow tyrants (because they begged us to, btw) in favor of democratic elections is, "inexplicably idiotic".

But turtles like to hide in their shells from the big, scary world.

#92 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 04:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

-prove this incorrect.

www.drudge.com

www.drudge.com

antiwar.com

When you learn the difference between Afghanistan and Iraq, let us know, MU.

#93 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 04:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

"To you, helping people overthrow tyrants (because they begged us to, btw) in favor of democratic elections is, "inexplicably idiotic"."

People who have such little regard for us that they openly ally with AQ begged us for help. And you think this is a reason to spend hundres of millions or dollars and endanger American lives?

Inexplicably idiotic.

"But turtles like to hide in their shells from the big, scary world."

And when are you going to get off your couch and go join one of these revolutions yourself?

Corky: jeep...jeep...

#94 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 04:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

-that they openly ally with AQ begged us for help.

They begged us for help for 2 years and only allied with AQ factions after we refused, mainly because of isolationist fears like yours.

Now they are fighting those AQ factions and Assad.

#95 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 04:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

"They begged us for help for 2 years and only allied with AQ factions after we refused, mainly because of isolationist fears like yours."

We were talking about the Libyan rebellion. The Libyan rebellion never excluded AQ.

And even if they had, it would make zero sense to help them after they change to a pro-AQ stance.

The rise of the Al Qaedacrats is very strange indeed.

#96 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 04:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

"helping people overthrow tyrants (because they begged us to, btw) in favor of democratic elections is, "inexplicably idiotic"."

in other words, corky would gladly cause a 200 car pile-up with expensive damage, injuries and fatalities in order to cross five lanes of freeway traffic in order to quickly stop and park his car in the break down lane to offer some help to a man waving a white flag on the side of the road.

"but," said corky, in an interview to a local television station after the massive accident-- "he was begging me to help him. being an loyal interventionist democrat i had to help him. if i didn't, i'd just be another typical, illogical, cynical, ideological, turtlesque motorist hiding in my isolationist shell..."

#97 | Posted by NerfHerder at 2014-01-30 04:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

The cowardly excuses for not helping people overthrow tyrants in favor of democratic elections when they are begging us to help, as was the case in both countries, appear to be without limit.

#98 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 04:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The cowardly excuses for not helping people overthrow tyrants in favor of democratic elections when they are begging us to help, as was the case in both countries, appear to be without limit."

The shameless claims of internet toughguy chickenhawks who like to make excuses for siding with terrorists are very limited, but oft repeated.

#99 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 04:44 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"575 US troops died in Afghanistan during the Bush presidency. By August 18, 2010, following two troop surges initiated by President Obama, that number had doubled. Today, over 1500 US troops have died in Afghanistan since President Obama took office -- and yet, little in that war-torn country has changed."

Notice how corky avoids this, he will post all around it use deflecting political pandering but will not address this sad fact.

#100 | Posted by moneywar at 2014-01-30 04:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

-siding with terrorists

A few AQ might get guns while we help millions of oppressed people who are begging us to help them overthrow tyrants that have ruled thm for decades... OK, F them, then.

Happy now?

--
More American soldiers have been killed under Obama in Iraq then during bush war adventure. The real American soldier killer is Obama but the lefties ignore that and push some idiocy old bush crap.

#82 | POSTED BY MONEYWAR

Still a lie. Iraq still not Afghanistan.

#101 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 05:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry corky, but I corrected that error when eberly pointed it out and it seems strange why you go back to something I corrected.

You mean you can't stand it that someone is pointing out that Obama has killed more soldiers in afganistan than bush by more than double and that is after the war.

You would like that to remain quiet, kind of like Hillary too not giving a damn, at this point what does it matter! Well, it matters to million upon million of americans.

Better start getting the party to focus on main street jobs and stop killing of American soldiers, it will kill the party.

#102 | Posted by moneywar at 2014-01-30 05:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

#102

We were actually fighting in A-stan longer under Obama than twiddling our thumbs there all those years with Bush, DUH!

If you are going to continue to repast rwing Echo Chamber talking points around here, you should get used being retorted on them.

#103 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 05:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

repast - repeat... crap, now I'm typing like him!

#104 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 05:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

"A few AQ might get guns while we help millions of oppressed people who are begging us to help them overthrow tyrants that have ruled thm for decades... OK, F them, then.

Happy now?"

Do you live in fantasy land? Libya is a chaotic mess.

Nobody was helped except the extremist militias who are running wild.

#105 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-30 08:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

*She is another phony. Her personality would change the instant cameras were near. She hated with open disdain the military and Secret Service. She was another one who felt people were there to serve her. She was always trying to keep tabs on Bill Clinton.*

-SS

#106 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2014-01-30 08:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

#105

Ben Franklin is said to have noted after the Revolution that we had, "a republic, if we can keep it".

We'll see how they do, now that they have a chance they did not before.

But I understand you buttressing your refusal to aid these "furiners" in their fight for freedom by predicting their failure in the future.

Whatever makes you feel better about it.

#106 lol, see what new friends you attract, Sully?

Ringwers feel not only enabled, but enhanced by all the Clinton haters, especially when it comes from people even moderately Left of them.

#107 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-30 08:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah, Sully, you don't want to say anything that hurts the chances of Carlyle Clinton. Aren't you Ready for Hillary?

#108 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-01-30 09:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

#108

Opposing the Dem candidate only helps the GOP candidate.

Unless you are Nulli thru the Looking Glass living in Wonderland.

#109 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-31 12:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Okay. So. Is Hillary Running for anything yet?

Why is there so much attention being placed on her?

Killary Clinton likes to bomb people? So did her husband, and both Bushes, and Reagan, and Obama, and Ike, and Truman, and FDR, and Teddy, and every damn president this country has had.

This nation was built by massacring an entire race of human beings. It's completely ignored other than a 5 page chapter in some US History book. But I digress.

This country needs a President that actually cares about the middle and lower class as much as they care for the upper class.

But:"The cost of running for senate or POTUS guarantees anyone that will make it to the ticket will be OWNED by the 1%. If the 1% don't want it, it won't happen. "

#110 | Posted by ClownShack at 2014-01-31 12:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

" see what new friends you attract, Sully?"

A rightwinger agrees with you, Sully, ergo, you must be wrong. That particular corkyism is also known as "guilt by association".

#111 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-01-31 09:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Opposing the Dem candidate only helps the GOP candidate.
Unless you are Nulli thru the Looking Glass living in Wonderland.

#109 | POSTED BY CORKY

For MyCrankCorky... ideas a meaningless, party is everything.

#112 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2014-01-31 10:22 AM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

#112 |

Wouldn't know an "idea" if it ran over her at 90 mph.

#113 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-31 10:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

A rightwinger agrees with you, Sully, ergo, you must be wrong. That particular corkyism is also known as "guilt by association".

#111 | Posted by nullifidian at 2014-01-31 09:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Actually he's making a criticism of Hillary that has nothing to do with anything I said. In this thread, Corky is the neocon anyway.

Here is a pretty balanced article on the US intervention in Libya and its results: harvardpolitics.com

Here's some stats from the article on just how much of a "humantarian crisis" really existed before our involvement and what has happened since:

'Human Rights Watch reports that of the 900 people wounded in the rebellion's initial seven weeks -- a conflict involving only Gaddafi and opposition forces -- only 30 were women or children. Meanwhile, across airwaves in the West, press accounts and officials exaggerated the death toll of the rebellion by an order of magnitude, spiking up the HRW's factual report of 233 casualties at the beginning of the uprisings to "more than 2,000 deaths," construing public perception of Gaddafi as a ruthless war criminal.

"On every metric I've looked at, Libya is worse off. If you look at the death toll, it's about ten times higher than it would've been without intervention," Alan Kuperman, associate professor at the University of Texas Austin and Senior Fellow at the U.S. Institute of Peace, told the HPR. "If you look at ethnic and racial animosity it's worse than before the intervention, and if you look at the prospects for economic and social development, I'd again say it's much worse than before the intervention."'

Mission Accomplished!

#114 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-31 11:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

"But some still have hope. With regards to the future of the Libyan state, former Libyan ambassador to the United States Ali Aujali is optimistic.

"The current situation is to be expected. We have young people with access to weapons and the weapons were not collected from them at the right time. It is up to the government to deal with this in the proper way," Aujali stated.

Aujali, who was appointed by the National Transitional Council in 2011, told the HPR of his unending belief in the wishes of the Libyan people.

"I know the people are committed to a free and democratic Libya, and for that, they must do two things: they have to be patient, and they have to be willing to work."

Whether this patience will come to fruition remains to be seen."

from your link.

Guy sounds a lot like Amb Stevens in his assessment of Libya.

Without the intervention, they had no chance for a democracy at all. Now they do.

The fact that the aftermath is messy not withstanding.

"Ben Franklin is said to have noted after the Revolution that we had, "a republic, if we can keep it".

We'll see how they do, now that they have a chance they did not before."

Of course, some people hate that their nickle was spent on giving the Libyans that chance, I'm just not one of them

#115 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-31 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

Of course, some people hate that their nickle was spent on giving the Libyans that chance, I'm just not one of them

#115 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-31 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag:
Never seen a war he didn't like unless it was a Republican in charge.

#116 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-31 12:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Guy sounds a lot like Amb Stevens in his assessment of Libya."

How is that a plus? Based on the what you've told me about Amb Stevens, he couldn't have been more wrong about Libya and it cost him his life.

"Without the intervention, they had no chance for a democracy at all. Now they do."

Before the intervention, they had violent armed men preventing them from instituting a democracy. Since the intervention, violent armed men are making it impossible to institute a democracy.

The only thing we changed are which violent armed men cause the problems.

#117 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-31 12:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

#117

lmao... evidence that once a person takes a position, no amount of reason can move them off of it.

The Libyans are closer to democracy for having gotten rid of the Good Col, and will closer still after they gain control of the militias.

Unless you somehow know that will never ever happen.... because it fits your isolationist prejudice so well to think so.

#116

Never seen a frog he didn't love.

#118 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-31 12:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

-he couldn't have been more wrong about Libya

Thinks the story is over there.

But then, that also fits his prejudice.

I think the Amb was right about the people of Libya, and that they will win out in the end.

We'll see, won't we.

#119 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-31 12:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

lmao... evidence that once a person takes a position, no amount of reason can move them off of it.
#118 | Posted by Corky
LMAO, Corky get a mirror.

#120 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-31 12:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

lmao... evidence that once a person takes a position, no amount of reason can move them off of it.
#118 | Posted by Corky
From the guy who goes to every thread and praise Hillary as if she is a God. I bet if she let you you would suck her dick!

#122 | Posted by patron at 2014-01-31 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

"The Libyans are closer to democracy for having gotten rid of the Good Col, and will closer still after they gain control of the militias."

You say this as if we both don't know that you this is a baseless claim..


#124 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-31 12:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

#124

You say that as if you think your opinion is fact.

Sorry to be the one to tell you otherwise, but someone has to do it.

The story isn't over in Libya, your desire for their failure merely to prove your point notwithstanding.

#123

You at least have limited entertainment value.

#125 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-31 12:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The story isn't over in Libya, your desire for their failure merely to prove your point notwithstanding."

We can only judge the situation by the current reality. And the current reality is unkind to your narative. What I want has nothing to do with it. Your problem is with reality.

#126 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-31 12:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

-We can only judge the situation by the current reality

Political myopia at it's best.

The current reality is the aftermath of a revolution. You presumption that it can't possibly get better is laugh out loudable.

#127 | Posted by Corky at 2014-01-31 01:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

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