Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, January 22, 2014

Michael Hiltzik: Aaron Carroll today offers a graphic depiction of the toll of the anti-vaccination movement ... from a Council on Foreign Relations interactive map of "vaccine-preventable outbreaks" worldwide 2008-2014. ... Measles is endemic in the underdeveloped world because of the unavailability of the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine. But in the developed world it's an artifact of the anti-vaccination movement, which has associated the vaccine with autism. That connection, promoted by the discredited British physician Andrew Wakefield and the starlet Jenny McCarthy, has been thoroughly debunked. But its effects live on, as the map shows.

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Profanity will be filtered. Abusive conduct is not allowed.

And before anyone posts it, vaccines

a.) are not 100% effective in inducing immunity

b.) do not provide life-long immunity

So shrugging off anti-vaccine rhetoric with 'if they're vaccinated they'll be fine' nonsense is selfish and ignorant.

#1 | Posted by jpw at 2014-01-22 02:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

The anti-vaccine people perplex me, too, although I think children are far too over vaccinated in America these days.
For goodness sakes, I can remember the tail end of polio just before the Salk/Sabin inoculation drive. No laughing matter.

#2 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-01-22 02:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

I can remember the tail end of polio just before the Salk/Sabin inoculation drive. No laughing matter.

#2 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-

So can I. There were family members afflicted. But you correctly identify the problem: we can remember how bad it was; many others are too young to. They are therefore free to conform reality to their personal needs.

You see the same thing in regards to war. Almost everyone's burned out on war at the moment. In just another eighteen years they won't be.

We'll have a whole new crop of dewey-eyed Republicans (or what takes the place of the GOP) calling the rest of us cowards for not supporting some war they've decided they like.

Yes, they'll forget entirely how much war sucks. But they'll somehow recall how much it also sucks to serve in one. And almost to a man they'll leave the enlistment to people whose time isn't quite as valuable as their own.

Then they'll run for political office, I don't know....Wearing little purple ribbons to mock some competitor's war wounds.

#3 | Posted by Zed at 2014-01-22 08:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

Helluva segue, Zed....vaccines to Republican war-mongers. Kinda early to start trolling, isn't it?

A more fitting comment would be "chlorine in the gene pool" or "survival of the fittest"....

#4 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-01-22 08:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

Kinda early to start trolling, isn't it?

#4 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-01-22 08:53 AMFlag: (Choose)
FunnyNewsworthyOffensiveAbusiv
e

Some of us enjoy a vigorous lifestyle and have been up for hours.

#5 | Posted by Zed at 2014-01-22 09:08 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 1

Oh, I've been up for hours, don't you fret...but perhaps a more nuanced approach to trolling is called for for our west coast members...

#6 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2014-01-22 09:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

Freaking kids are becoming pin cushions these days. There's no question that certain vaccinations are a necessity but some others are questionable.

#7 | Posted by matsop at 2014-01-22 09:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

If you're taking medical advise from Jenny McCarthy, its probably best if your genes are culled from the herd.

#8 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-22 09:50 AM | Reply | Flag: | Funny: 4

Jenny McCarthy is well past her bloom, and she ought to be heavily discounted and gotten rid of. That she can ever have been a spokesperson for anything besides young girls who flash their ----- is wrong.

#9 | Posted by john47 at 2014-01-22 10:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

All the anti vaccine types need to move to Pakistan. They'll fit right in. There are lots of people there who agree that vaccines are an evil plot. Most of them have Kalashnikovs.

#10 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2014-01-22 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Freaking kids are becoming pin cushions these days. There's no question that certain vaccinations are a necessity but some others are questionable.

#7 | Posted by matsop

It ain't vaccinations. It's far too much antibotic.

#11 | Posted by Sniper at 2014-01-22 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 1

"If you're taking medical advise from Jenny McCarthy, its probably best if your genes are culled from the herd."

Is it okay if I just pretend to listen while she talks, Sully?

#12 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-01-22 01:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

vaccines
a.) are not 100% effective in inducing immunity
b.) do not provide life-long immunity
So shrugging off anti-vaccine rhetoric with 'if they're vaccinated they'll be fine' nonsense is selfish and ignorant.
#1 | Posted by jpw at 2014-01-22 02:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

Well JPW that's a start ... so how about acknowledging the 'big picture'?

1. Vaccine benefit statitistics vs population infection
2. Vaccine risks including 'mild' illnesses induced to death and disablement.

--- unless there's a full disclosere of the statistical facts the mainstream is engaging in fear tacktics claiming they know best because they believe the Dr BS.

But hay do what the Dr Says... take those meds too (and pay them $$$).

#13 | Posted by reitze at 2014-01-22 03:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Freaking kids are becoming pin cushions these days. There's no question that certain vaccinations are a necessity but some others are questionable.
#7 | Posted by matsop

You're just being a curmudgeon. Name the ones that are questionable.
Medicine has progressed. We're vaccinating for stuff we didn't have vaccines for when you were a kid.

#14 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-01-22 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

#14 that vaccines solve everything is a falacy sold to harvest your cash. If they actually were 100% effective there would be no backlash. But instead the 90% effectiveness gives the pathogens a chance to adapt and come back stronger. And THAT is what the timeline graph really demonstrates. Meanwhile the REAL statistics are withheld and the infection rates are conflated with mal-nutritian and other correlated problems.

So like JPW (surprisingly of all people here) said, " So shrugging off anti-vaccine rhetoric with 'if they're vaccinated they'll be fine' nonsense is selfish and ignorant."

Like yea, believing vaccines are better at adaptation than viruses is ignorant at best. It leads to "super bugs".

#15 | Posted by reitze at 2014-01-22 04:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's far too much antibotic.

#11 | Posted by Sniper

It rare, but once in a blue moon, even Sniper is correct.

#16 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2014-01-22 05:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

In what was once a free country, you were free to decide whether or not to take vaccines. I think the vaccinators are protesting too much.

Considering that everything Big Pharma produces is poisonous or fraudulent one way or another, I wouldn't trust them. There are non-toxic methods to avoid disease that are much more effective.

Measles is endemic in the underdeveloped world because of the unavailability of the MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) vaccine.

These people are also malnourished and hence vulnerable to disease.

#17 | Posted by Ray at 2014-01-22 05:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you're taking medical advise from Jenny McCarthy, its probably best if your genes are culled from the herd.
#8 | Posted by Sully at 2014-01-22 09:50 AM | Reply | Flag: BEST POST TODAY

#18 | Posted by e1g1 at 2014-01-22 08:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

#14 that vaccines solve everything
#15 | Posted by reitze

I never said vaccines solve everything, nitwit.

But the fact that nobody on these forums has polio shows vaccines do solve one or two things.

#19 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-01-22 09:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

In what was once a free country, you were free to decide whether or not to take vaccines.
#17 | Posted by Ray

Don't be stupid, Ray.

Next I suppose you'll explain that "freedom" means being able to decide whether or not your kids will learn to read, or be potty trained.

#20 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-01-22 09:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#19 If the mainstreme story was true there would be enough evidence to fend off the 'conspiracy theorists'. Instead you resort to religious name-calling. Pretty sad. If there were more scientific facts available they might actually be interesting to read. Instead here's a sample of the best info available (unless you can come up with something better). But I doubt it... just name name name... bla bla bla... religious politics.

- 7 Trivia Facts About Polio
- Polio Vaccine One Of Medicine's Biggest Lies

#21 | Posted by reitze at 2014-01-22 09:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

Instead you resort to religious name-calling. Pretty sad.

Don't put words in my mouth and I won't call you a nitwit.

Of course, you'll also have to avoid posting links claiming polio is caused by heavy metal poisoning if you don't want to be called a nitwit.

#22 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-01-22 09:27 PM | Reply | Flag: | Newsworthy 2

#22 the links don't claim that. They claim the heavy metal poisioning weekened people and cause paralysis. Polio was scapegoated while the vaccination sellers claimed victorious profit.

naturopathconnect.com

And yea I may have been a bit quick to assume you'd be name calling, but now you are. Why am I not surprised. No scientific truths to offer of your own? Well then how do you avoid loosing on the facts? End the conversation by acting like a child.

#23 | Posted by reitze at 2014-01-22 09:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

They claim the heavy metal poisioning weekened people and cause paralysis. Polio was scapegoated while the vaccination sellers claimed victorious profit.

So what?

Everybody profits when polio gets wiped out.

That somebody found a way to get rich while also eradicating polio isn't really a problem.

#24 | Posted by snoofy at 2014-01-22 10:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

I'm happy I didn't have to have a family of 10 kids just to watch most of them die or cripple only to have 1-2 survive.

Wife and I have two kids, both are alive, smart, happy, healthy, and fully vaccinated.

#25 | Posted by wurster at 2014-01-22 10:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

But instead the 90% effectiveness gives the pathogens a chance to adapt and come back stronger. And THAT is what the timeline graph really demonstrates.

Nonsense. You're just grasping at straws in your ignorance.

Like yea, believing vaccines are better at adaptation than viruses is ignorant at best. It leads to "super bugs".

I'd ask for a link but I don't think whale.to is acceptable.

If the mainstreme story was true there would be enough evidence to fend off the 'conspiracy theorists'

Right. Because conspiracy theorists are known for their objective, fact-based assessment of their chosen topics.

Instead here's a sample of the best info available (unless you can come up with something better).

Best information available...

LOL

You prove my point above and probably don't even realize it.

#26 | Posted by jpw at 2014-01-22 11:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

No scientific truths to offer of your own?

I think we're all waiting for you to go first.

#27 | Posted by jpw at 2014-01-22 11:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

#27 put up or shut up. I've already provide the off-mainstream links. You've got nothing but BS. We've done this dance 20 times, you've lost every time.

#28 | Posted by reitze at 2014-01-23 12:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

I've already provide the off-mainstream links. You've got nothing but BS.

I have that thing called science.

You've got assertions from websites and forums.

We've done this dance 20 times, you've lost every time.

LOL if you think showing your abject ignorance means you win, well, there's no help for you.

You were a complete fool on the HIV thread a while back, I have no doubt you'd be on this topic as well.

#29 | Posted by jpw at 2014-01-23 12:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Helluva segue, Zed....vaccines to Republican war-mongers"

Zed is right, Mustang. People forget hardship readily and make the same mistakes in a short time. What he says about war is true but it is both parties, not just Republicans.

#30 | Posted by Diablo at 2014-01-23 02:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

If the Council on Foreign Relations claims that vaccines are always in your interest it must be true, right?. Their reputation for benevolence for the masses is regularly touted by the CFR elite. Yet those who attempt to debate conventional "wisdom" or think outside the box and not blindly accept what they are told are ridiculed as conspiracy theorists.

Never forget......there are no conspiracy theorists in a herd of sheep.

PS: A relative died as a direct result of a vaccine intended to prevent one of those first Asian flue strains, so they are not always about passive protection.

#31 | Posted by Robson at 2014-01-23 08:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

Some have recognized a potential dark side in creating multinational blind acceptance to the widespread use of vaccines.

What better way for the greedy unethical controllers of society to advance their own 21st century version of eugenics, or war without bombs, than the use of vaccines that target genetic sequences or through the use of deadly diseases that exclude other DNA sequences?

Technology and globalization may make such actions an horrendous possibility by those of evil, of insatiable greed and with a quest for infinite power and wealth. We've already seen leaders who would use them if they had them.

#32 | Posted by Robson at 2014-01-23 10:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

Next I suppose you'll explain that "freedom" means being able to decide whether or not your kids will learn to read, or be potty trained.

#20 | Posted by snoofy

Sad to say, but that's exactly what people claim these days. If you're trying to convince people that you can cut taxes, increase spending, and balance the budget you don't want them well educated. Same story if you're trying to convince them that vaccines are an evil plot. That's why most Muslim countries don't educate people. Sigh.

#33 | Posted by SomebodyElse at 2014-01-23 10:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

4,250% Increase in Fetal Deaths Reported to VAERS After Flu Shot Given to Pregnant Women

#35 | Posted by reitze at 2014-01-23 07:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

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