Greenberg: Howard Zinn's One-Sided History | Drudge Retort

Thursday, March 21, 2013

Greenberg: Howard Zinn's One-Sided History

David Greenberg: In the 1980s, in the faculty-filled suburbs west of Boston, the historian Howard Zinn was something of a folk hero. The Boston Globe, where Zinn published a column, ran stories of his battles with the dictatorial John Silber, the president of Boston University, who cracked down on unions, censored student protests, and denied pay raises to enemies such as Zinn. When it was learned that the National Labor Relations Board had reinstated service workers who had been fired for striking, or that the courts upheld a student's right to hang a "divest" banner from his window, a wave of satisfaction would surge from Cambridge to Brookline to Newton to Wellesley. As Silber's chief nemesis, Zinn -- handsome in profile, gentle in manner -- made for a winning poster boy for anyone who reviled Silber's high-handed rule.

Posted by jeffj at 05:32 PM | 54 COMMENTS | permalink | Comment on This Entry |

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Admin's note: Participants in this discussion must follow the site's moderation policy. Personal attacks, profanity, abusive conduct and expressions of prejudice are not allowed. If you have comments about site moderation, contact the site publisher in email.

This is a long read but it is throughtfully written. The headline is a tad harsh and doesn't square with the tone this author writes with.

I don't expect this thread to garner many posts. It'll likely grab Nulli's attention and possibly Sarvis. That'll probably be about it.

#1 | Posted by JeffJ at 2013-03-20 07:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

The past is never dead. It's not even past.

William Faulkner

#2 | Posted by lee_the_agent at 2013-03-20 07:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

The New Republic has sucked for decades. It had some integrity in the 60s and 70s, and then turned to the right and ended up cheerleading for the Iraqi invasion.

#3 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-20 07:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Do you disagree with the author's analysis, Null?

Not trying to play 'gotcha' or anything. I am genuinely curious.

#4 | Posted by JeffJ at 2013-03-20 07:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Duberman quotes Zinn at the time of Robert Kennedy's murder saying that the American people's collective anguish constituted "one of the great acts of hypocrisy in world history…. If we were to tell the truth, we would say that murderers are wearing mourning clothes today…. Is murder only the killing of important men by unimportant men? Is it not also the killing of unimportant men by important men? Are not governments the greatest murderers of all?" Duberman does not remark upon, or even register, the perversity
of this reaction."

REalize American men were dying in Vietnam when he said this.

#5 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-20 07:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

I found it to be a critique of Zinn clumsily presented as a review of Zinn's biography. If the author has this much of an ax to grind, he can do it standing on his own two feet.

#6 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2013-03-20 07:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

I found it to be a critique of Zinn clumsily presented as a review of Zinn's biography. If the author has this much of an ax to grind, he can do it standing on his own two feet.

#6 | Posted by Harry_Powell

That's a fair criticism IMO.

#7 | Posted by JeffJ at 2013-03-20 07:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

Of course those DLC dems at the New Republic are going to attack Zinn. He was an authentic liberal, not a sellout like those fakers.

#8 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-20 07:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Of course those DLC dems at the New Republic are going to attack Zinn. He was an authentic liberal, not a sellout like those fakers.

#8 | Posted by nullifidian

I thought the criticisms of his most famous work were spot-on (A People's History.. was seriously lacking in nuance and balance in the sense of intellectual honesty) as well as the critique of his style of historical scholarship.

#9 | Posted by JeffJ at 2013-03-20 07:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Those Clintonite clowns at TNR have more in common with the Young Republicans than they do with lefties like Zinn.

#10 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-20 08:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

doubt i'll read...poor mood...but i who hasn't heard if Zinn.
sometimes i liked him, sometimes i didn't.

guess i'll go with Powell's description of the article, for now. waiting for more.

#11 | Posted by ichiro at 2013-03-21 06:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

fyi, plenty of Howard Zinn available on youtube.

#12 | Posted by ichiro at 2013-03-21 10:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Zinn was the debbie downer of American history.

Ever try reading his crap?

The American government almost never did anything right and when it did it was for the wrong reasons.

He seems to have gotten his thrills in the same way Fred Phelps does.

#13 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-21 05:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

TOR:"Zinn was the debbie downer of American history."

...to which of his writings are you referring...?

...I personally have found his writings inspiring...that he told hard upopular truths that made you feel down says more about you than it does about him...

...LOL...

#14 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-21 07:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

Oh really 1EYEDMAN?

"A People's History is bad history, albeit gilded with virtuous intentions. Zinn reduces the past to a Manichean fable "

www.dissentmagazine.org

#15 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-21 08:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

ed.stanford.edu

Need you more proof that Zinn was not who you thought him to be?

#16 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-21 08:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

And I'm not even getting started.

If you want to go deep on Zinn just ask.

#17 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-21 09:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

2 of your links, goes to articles either written about Sam Wineburg reaction to zinns
book or a article written by by Sam Wineburg attacking Zinns book, in fact a quick google search shows he seems to have spent a lot of time obsessing upon Zinns work.
3 of your links goes to the same web site.
another goes to what seems to be a moderate typical Lib DLC Magazine web site.
Another thing of note even through there criticism they all did have good things to say of Zinns the book

#18 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2013-03-21 10:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

The authors are Kazin, Plotnikoff, Wineburg, and DeWitt.

And rather than write them off as reactionary or inconsequential you might want to read the articles.

#19 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-21 10:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

I liked Zinn when I was collage sophomore, I have quite a few more books under my belt now. The core belief of Zinn is that America is always wrong. He starts with that premise and ignores all evidence that does not support his narrative. Because of this, he is not much of an historian, but because of his American bashing he is a hero of the left. The only hack I have read that is worse is Noam Chomsky, of course he has never said he was a historian- his drivel could never pass peer review muster anywhere. These guys are second rate intellects that pass themselves off as edgy and cool, but the content is not there. Their books only impress the semi-educated, anyone who has enough background to examine their work critically is seldom impressed.

#20 | Posted by docnjo at 2013-03-21 11:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The core belief of Zinn is that America is always wrong."

That sums him up nicely.

#21 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-22 01:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

"These guys are second rate intellects that pass themselves off as edgy and cool, but the content is not there. Their books only impress the semi-educated, anyone who has enough background to examine their work critically is seldom impressed."

That's funny given the people I know personally who admire one or both of them. These folks of whom I speak are far beyond "semi-educated."

#22 | Posted by pragmatist at 2013-03-22 02:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

But they live in the echo chamber of the progressive cage.

#23 | Posted by docnjo at 2013-03-22 04:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Mr DOCNJO: "...Zinn...Chomsky...pass themselves off as edgy and cool..."

...this statement alone is proof that you don't have the slightest idea what the hell you are talking about...

...you never read either - I doubt you were even a "college sophomore"...

...historians & linguists...once nerdy, now "edgy and cool"...

...forget rock stars & rappers...all the edgy cool kids wanna be linguists or historians...

...LO f'in L...

#24 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-22 05:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

oneeye did you really never notice that Zinn skip right over the wright brothers and goes straight to America's bombers?

#26 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-22 06:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

...what are you talking about..?

...do you even know...?

...LOL...

#27 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-22 07:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

@ #27 My copy of a "people's" history of the United States makes no mention of the Wright brothers.

In Zinn's mind humanity goes straight from no Airplanes to bombing the crap out of Germans.

The question is why did he leave out the Wright's?

#28 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-22 07:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

...if you read the book, then you will be able to tell me why Allied bombing - and he wrote at length of a particular incident in occupied France - why it may have been of particular relevance to Mr. Zinn...?

...this is easy for anyone who has read the book...if you do not know, I will have to assume you have not read it...

...LOL...

#29 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-22 08:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

...also, I imagine if you read the book, in the introduction he was very clear about the scope of the book, and what that scope would include...

...what was that qualifier he included in the introduction...?

...that is, if you read it...if not just say so and save me time and you further humiliation...

...LOL...

#30 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-22 08:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Because Zinn concluded he was guilty of murder and didn't try to write a history book so much as demonize America to expunge himself of the guilt he felt?

#31 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-22 08:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

howard zinn.

ha ha ha ha ha

yeah okay.....oooooooooooo FAR OUT and cool man.

#32 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2013-03-22 08:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Three cheers for the autophobes.

#33 | Posted by Huguenot at 2013-03-22 09:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

...so you did not read it, Tor...

...figures...

...but, pls proceed to speak from ignorance...

...it never stopped you before...

...LOL...

#34 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-22 10:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

...Tor...

...why should he read when he can snatch blurbs from wacko wingnut websites...?

...LOL…

#35 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-22 10:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

...Tor…

…thought you were itching to go deep on Zinn...

…as usual wingnut talk is cheap…

...LOL…

#36 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-22 10:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Stanford is nothing but a "wacko wingnut website"?

LOL and you accuse me of not reading.

#37 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-22 10:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

DOCNJO - nice try at metaphor…

…but cages don't echo…

…shoulda covered that back in your sophomore year…

…LOL

#38 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-22 10:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

…so you admit to cribbing frm some on-line wacko…

…are you saying that wacko wingnuts don't post there…?

…they obviously do…

…you think integrity of the institution is transferrable to all that post on that site…?

… novel idea: Read the book before offering an opinion - instead of pretending you did…

…LOL…

#39 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-22 10:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

cribbing?

My lone quote was short and cited.

#40 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-22 10:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

…Tor, apperently all you seem to know about Zinn is what you learned when you googled those links you posted…

…L…

…O…

…L…

#41 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-22 10:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

oneeye you might want to try reading the linked articles and thinking.

#42 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-23 01:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

…this thread is about Zinn, not your [...]-links, toodles…

…you didn't read any of Zinn, although you tried to infer that you had…

…so you went to google to find out what your assigned wingnut opinion was…

…you only think what you are told to think like the rest of the tea baggin' braggarts on DR…

…so spare me your ignorant condscension…

…LOL…

#43 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-23 10:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

"shite-links"?

Stanford is "shite"?

Doesn't your anti-intellectualism preclude you from being able to use the internet with a sound conscious?

#44 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-23 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

…Tor: "my copy of a peoples history of the u.s."

…must be using it as a doorstop…

…try reading it, you might learn somethin'…

…but I wouldn't hold my breath…

…LOL…

#45 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-23 04:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

… instant wingnut intellectualism…

…just add links and PRESTO!…

…LOL…

#46 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-23 05:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here's a fun thing you can do with "a peoples history".

Try reading the section on the development of the airplane.

#47 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-23 05:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Try reading the section on the development of the airplane."

It wasn't Zinn's intention to write a conventional history and salivate over technological inventions or celebrate imperial adventures, killing injuns, enslaving people, etc., like your standard Texas textbook. He wrote a counter-history. Duh. Apparently you clowns missed the title of his book.

#48 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-23 05:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Wright's were of "the people" and their invention changed the world.

Zinn couldn't even bring himself to give them a single sentence in his over hyped yellow book.

#49 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-23 05:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Who cares about the Wright brothers. If not them, somebody else would have invented it. You people would criticize a history of American art for not including the Wright brothers.

#50 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-23 05:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

There are so many thing with your post Null.

Zinn saw no reason to mention the wright brothers but felt he needed to name multiple Jr. officers that he claims where part of the effort to drive the bonus army out of DC.

#51 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-23 06:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Tor:"…sound conscious…"

…I dunno, does it sound "conscious" to you…

…or did you mean "conscience"…?

…no wonder you didn't read Zinn - apparent he is above your grade level…

…LOL…

#52 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-24 02:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

…Tor : "Zinn couldn't even bring himself to give them a single sentence…"

…how do you know; You couldn't 'bring' yourself to READ a single sentence…

…yeah, I know - teh google…

…LOL…

#53 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-24 02:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

"…apparently, Tor's idea of going "deep" on Zinn is two kvetch about what he didn't write…"

Tor thinks a History of American Poetry should have a chapter on the Wright Brothers.

#55 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-24 02:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

…yes, I can see it now…

…"how can you call Wittman an American poet if if'n he don't never bring hisself to write about the poetic magic of th' Write brothers as they soar with th' birds in that newfagled flying machine?…

…of course, followed by intellectual links…

…LOL…

#56 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-24 03:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

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