The Eagle Ford shale gas is said to be commercially extractable into 2050, Nullifidian

IN fact even far beyond that according to my geologist son who is spending a lot of time at eagle ford. In fact, it's a bane to their company. There is so much natural gas there that the glut keeps prices low. Yet they must do expensive drilling for cheap gas to keep the stockholders happy. It's a paradox they are having a hard time reconciling.

When there are competing professional opinions, which there always are, generally the safest bet is the economic one since in the end it's all about money.

Natural gas ain't dirt right now because we're running out of it. 'Nuff said.

Sometimes I almost suspect the prices are manipulated by powerful people.

Who do you think is doing it, danni? You used to blame the president, but now that the president is a democrat, I know you won't blame him. So who's to blame now?

Prices going to near record highs while demand is down is simply caused by sunspots, like global warming and medicare.

Actually, there are real market forces at play that have more of an effect than sunspots and conspiracies.

Like most of the things you buy, oil prices are affected by supply and demand. However, oil prices are primarily controlled by oil futures contracts, which are traded on the commodities futures exchanges. The price depends on what investors think the price of oil will be in the future. When traders think oil will be high, they bid it up even higher. In this way, commodities traders create a self-fulfilling prophecy by bidding up oil futures prices. This leads to an asset bubble. Unfortunately, the one who pays for this bubble is you!

Rising gas and oil prices over the long-term are caused by a decline in the value of the dollar. Since oil is denominated in dollars, the 40% decline in the dollar in the last six years puts upward pressure on oil prices.

Why Are Gas Prices Going Up Right Now?:
You can expect gas prices to rise every spring. It seems to get earlier and earlier each year. That's because oil futures traders know demand for gas rises in the summer. They therefore start buying oil futures contracts in the spring in anticipation of that price rise. Then of course there's the increasing beat of wardrums in the Persian Gulf.

But maybe it is sunspots.

Yay We found more fossil fuels! Now we can quit all that green energy nonsense and keep burning the stuff that will destroy our farmland! Nothing wrong with that!
-exxon

The only energy dawn people should actually celebrate is renewable.

You do realize the oil companies have spent more on research for alternative fuels than the US government, don't you?

Sure. Buy your potential competitors and then get rid of them.

They are doing the research withhin their own companies, not buying other ones. Did you read the article? At any rate, what does it matter? You want green energy, right?

Once again you prove that you type a hateful post and when proven that the hate is misguided, you spin it so the hate is still there.

Haters will hate, no matter what good a person or company does. What can I say?

suckers will believe that exxon's going to help us move away from oil and gas.

Do you have proof otherwise? I think several billion dollars says they are serious.

Corporations like them have been fighting for years to keep us from moving toward renewable resources with false research and propaganda.

They sure have a funny way of doing it. I would think that they could find a better way to block green energy than investing 71 billion dollars in it. LOL

Haters will hate.

Exxon wipes its ass with a billion dollars.

If you have any proof that Exxon is not developing green energy as the article says, please present it.

Or continue with your irrational hate filled posts.

You really should at least pretend to read the article you are spewing so much hatred about.

Besides, Goatman needs a new boat.

No, I'm not a boat, fancy car, big house type person. I never have been. But a full frame Canon EOS 1D would be nice.

But do try another false assigning of position. It seems to be the thing with you dems when you got nuttin' else

I believe Big Oil. They know what is best for us.

Plus they have spent far more than the federal government in the last ten years on alternative and green energy research. You are putting your money on the right horse. Your government doesn't seem to care as much as they do in this arena

On the way to a renewable energy future, a funny thing has happened: Big Oil has become the biggest investor in the race to create green fuels. In the last decade, the industry says, it has put $71 billion into zero- and low-emission and renewable energy technologies. The U.S. government, by contrast, has spent about $43 billion on similar efforts during the same period, according to the American Petroleum Institute (API), a trade group. "We are making huge bets" on biofuels and also investing in wind and low carbon technologies, says Katrina Landis, chief executive officer of BP Alternative Energy, noting that her division has grown from a handful of employees in 2005 to 5,000 today.

How many times are you going to spam that industry propaganda?

How many times are you going to attack the source and not the facts?

You might be right. It might be not be true. But attacking the source and ignoring the data proves nothing.

Um, tar sands aren't considered green energy and therefore would not be included with the green energy numbers.

Many environmentalists doubt...

Of course they do. But like nullifidian, (and you) they are more intent on hating the source than disputing them with facts.

Bottom line, if you hate them, stop driving. Stop using their products. If you think that it's a myth that they spent more on R&D on green energy that the US so many seem to trust so well, write them and tell them to put that $71 billion in a better place like the investors' pockets. Then buy stock. (in fact, if you have a well rounded portfolio, it's highly unlikely that it doesn't have a significant fraction of it in oil industry stock. If true shame on you for supporting those liars. LOL)

Stupid tu quoque argument. It's like "don't like abortions, don't have one". Just plain dumb.

Does that included people who invest in the oil industry, which as I noted most do if they have a well rounded portfolio and want to make money. Or does this just apply to petroleum users?

IMO, the petroleum whiners need to at least divest themselves of all oil related stock if they want to continue whining about them. To whine about them and yet take a share of their profits is the acme of hypocrisy.

So investing in green energy IS a good thing?

I think so. You and others may disagree.

And I guess with this news Big Oil does not need welfare from the taxpayer anymore?

Again, only speaking for myself -- no. I don't care if their profits come from the government or the consumers. I get paid the same. I've been firmly on record for being against any government subsidy of an industry.

Maybe this IS good news.

Good yes. News, no. They've been doing it for years or even decades. You were too busy hating them to notice.

But do try another false assigning of position.

???

So you DID notice? Then why did you call it news?

You don't make much sense

They're drawing a comparison for you.

Um, so you are surprised they are spending more money on prodcution of the product they sell than R&D on an alternative one? That's your complaint? LOL

Guess what, love, the car companies also spend much more producing what they have traditionally produced than green cars. RJR spends more money on their traditional products than they do on R&D for less toxic products and ecigarettes. Microsoft spends more money getting the current version of Windows into the world than producing the next version. I can't think of a single industry that spends more on R&D of new products than they do on their traditional ones.

Can you?

BTW, speaksoftly -- does your financial portfolio contain any investments in the oil industry? Don't forget the mutual funds.

Oil is investing 9 billion in renewables

Um, 71 billion in the last ten years -- about 28 billion more than the federal government.

Why aren't you ragging on them? I mean seriously, that you don't just screams that you are feeding an irrational hatred.

Seriously, the more you post, the more obvious it is you are more interested in hate than solutions.

that will accelerate the death of our cropland and cause untold misery for mankind.

Well, they obviously care more about mankind than your government considering the monies spent. Yep, hate them for doing more than the government. Makes perfect sense.

Haters will hate, regardless

Third time I've posted that for you. Let's see how many it takes to sink in.

And the third time you posted it out of context. Post it again with what follows and we'll talk. OK

BUt it might be another couple of hours. I'm at the airport bar and I have to windup and catch my flight.

Why are dems so dishonest?

So says the guy who is suddenly born again on the concept of renewables.

#70 | Posted by donnerboy

I stopped reading there. I've always been on board with renewables. If you have something to say, begin your post without assigning false positions and I'll be glad to read it and respond.

Why do dems think it is necessary to lie and assign false positions to make a point?

I don't know why dems are so binary. They think if you embrace one rwing tenet, you embrace them all. Even as long as two years after joining this site I was accused of being an evangalist simply because I embraced some right wing tenets even though I never hid the fact I was an atheist.

Dems are so binary.

I don't know why Repubs are so binary. They think if you embrace one liberal tenet, you embrace them all.

Shades of gray elude some people. It's unexplainable

Sure you were Oil Man.

ET actually.

I bet you never uttered the word "Solyndra" in a negative way or never indicated that Obama was wasting his time on green energy cars either.

Of course I have. They're a waste of money as long as oil is so cheap (as solyndra proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and green cars are now proving) and I've said so. You don't like to hear about the reality of Obama throwing money into a pit? That I want economically viable renewables instead of ones that cost 3x oil is a valid point. Don't like it? Oh well. Tell the world how you love Obama wasting money. I disagree, however

Why aren't you supporting your President's efforts to be successful in these areas?

Because the oil companies are spending far more. (and it's not taxpayer's) Why don't you laud them for that instead of praising Obama for wasting taxpayer's money?

Because haters will hate regardless what the people they hate do.

Now you're insulting obama for investing in green energy.

???

What's wrong with you, speakstupidly? Seriously? I'm panning him for wasting (not investing, there's a difference -- look it up if you don't believe me) money. Anybody with any sense can tell you that as long as oil is cheaper than the alternative, people are going to buy the oil product. duh It ain't rocket science. Yet the zero hasn't figured this out yet. What an idiot.

And do please try to use the same words when assigning a position to me. Wasting and investing are not the same word nor do they have near the meaning. If our language confuses you, look up the words online in one of the many dictionaries before you post.

Thanks

Didn't you just get your nose rubbed in that lie?

Do you really think posting out of context makes it a lie? Yes, it makes YOU a liar, but not the text you posted.

Go back to the article and post what was under your cherry picked blurb.

Why are dems so dishonest?

An API report shows that just $9 billion of the $71 billion is for renewable energy while the rest has gone toward greening up Big Oil's fossil-fuel business.

And even taken out of context, you lie. 71-9=62. Still more than the government spends.

Haters will hate no matter what.

Obama spending on green energy = wasting money
Big oil spending on green energy = investing

Well since Solyndra went [...] up, the Volt doesn't sell, etc. while the oil companies still make a profit, that makes sense. And since Obama is spending my money and the oil companies, aren't makes a difference.

Why is this? The oil companies have to answer to their shareholders for money they spend. Obama has to answer to no one for money he tosses around. Who's the better custodian of the purse strings?

Thanks for clearing that up.

No problem. You're very welcome. I wish it didn't take you so long to learn this, though.

Ah, gotta love the cherry picking. I guess you sort of want to ignore this part:

The oil industry also has a major incentive for its green spending: the federal Renewable Fuel Standard. The law, signed by President George W. Bush in 2005, now requires about 15 billion gallons of alternative fuels such as ethanol in the nation's energy mix annually, and that number is mandated to grow to 36 billion gallons by 2022. (U.S. drivers consume about 134 billion gallons of gasoline a year.)

even though 99 percent of the other green investments didnt)

Did you make that number up?

THey are shutting down production of them for two months. It's not because they're selling well that they are doing that.

If you google some news stories, you'll see more evidence.

"Tell me, tell me, tell me."

Don't you have google?

You don't do very well on the Reading Comprehension part of tests do you?

???

Actually I do. I'll bet you didn't do well in algebra.

Here's the real question - do you work for big oil?

I'm still waiting on an answer from you: Do you have any oil stocks in your financial portfolio? If you don't are a very rare exception. Almost everyone does since it is a very safe investiment.

It cracks me up when people diss the oil industry and the people who work in it and accuse them of destroying the planet (it's not themselves destroying the planet driving their cars, though. LOL) while they themselves profit from it, too.

defend the industry that destroys the climate

This really needs to be re-iterated. How can you honestly blame them for destroying the planet when it is YOU burning the fuel. They simply provide it. I suppose if you chose to eat nothing but McDonalds and got fat by it, it would be McDonald's fault for providing the product, not your fault for consumint it. Do you have any idea what a hypocrite you are blaming the people who provide, not the people like you who consume. Any idea at all??

I didn't tnink so. Now go turn on some lights, turn on the AC, drive around and blame the oil companies for the damage YOU are doing.

Unbelievable.

But not so firmly on record against it that you won't work in such an industry.

???

Who said? I would or wouldn't?

Is assiging a false position the best you can do?

So i guess that makes you....wrong again.

Stopped reading there. I said "most" not all. Looks like that makes YOU wrong again.

Besides who wants to read what someone who takes no personal responsibility and blames others for his own contribution to pollution has to say?

It's YOU who is burning the chemical that puts CO2 in the air or consuming the final product that produces it (electricity, e.g.) . Grow up and own it. Why do you dems run from personal responsibility for contributing to the CO2 in the atmosphere and blame others for their own damage?

Incredible. I wish people like you would man up and own your portion of the blame. But I don't think that's gonna happen

The President is trying to change it.

Not as much as the oil companies if $$$ for R&D is an indication. And his attempts involove stupid economics. As long as petrol is cheaper, the new stuff ain't gonna sell. Economics 101. Too bad the zero doesn't get it. Aand since it's my money he's wasting foolishly, no I won't support him.

Offer a new argument or shut up. You spam the same obvious, obnoxious, stupid garbage in every oil thread, and it's annoying.

Likewise you need something new, alex instead of spamming "you are spamming" or "you're a troll" as a response to everything you disagree with. A true debate debates facts. It doesn't put forward ad hominem to everything.

The whole point of talking about this stuff is that we'd like to change it. Goatman is apparently the only poster who doesn't grasp this concept.

FAIL (of course) I've said many times we need to change. We need green energy. Even on this thread.

Get a grip and drop the lies, alex.

Here, let me warm up goattrolls responses:

LIAR

Well when you start off with a lie, that is a pretty easy prediction to make. LOL

Again, I can't figure out how you justify riding that high horse, alex, when all you have provided so far is ad hominem. Yet for some reason you think your personal attacks are superior responses to my points in the debate.

Incredible.

Because dems are trying to find another way. OIL slimeballs and their republican whores are trying to keep that from happening as they have been for 30 years.

So since dems are trying to find another way, you car doesn't pollute.

Got it.

(gee, somehow your lies make more sense. LOL)

You work for the fossil fuel industry right?
If you're silent again we'll take that as a "yes but I'm too ashamed to admit it."

I am an ET for an industry that drills holes in the ground. Yes, 99% of them are for oil compoanies.

Because if you're rooting for the people who are doing this much damage to the world,

Nope, I'm not rooting for you or anyone else burning oil to enrich their lives and pollute the planet. I'm for green energy. What part of that is so hard for you to grasp?

Besides, if you can't be honest enough to admit you are a part of the problem, anything else you say doesn't really matter, does it? Why are dems so typically unable to accept what they are responsible for? Why do they blame others for problems they are themselves a part of?

If the oil industry existed first without a use for their product, you would have a point. But that's not the way it happened. They came to be primarily when someone found out that petroleum could be used in lamps that were burning whale oil. Whales were being hunted to extinction in the 19th century just for this purpose. Then someone said, "Hey, this black stuff is easier to get and is plentiful". I suppose you would have preferred they kept on using whale oil.

Then other people found other uses. It wasn't the oil company looking for things to do with their product. It was other people. Fact. Deal with it. Please, man up and admit you are part of the problem. The oil companies exist because of you and your demands. Until you do that, you'll forever be just another whining "it's somebody else's fault, not mine at all. Not in the least." twerp.

Blame for what?

Their own carbon footprint. Speaksoftly maintains he's not responsible for his. I wonder how someone who holds such a line expects to be taken seriously on anything else he says?

"Why do you dems run from personal responsibility for contributing to the CO2 in the atmosphere and blame others for their own damage?

#108 | Posted by goatman a"

Because dems are trying to find another way.

This must explain how Al Gore justifies a carbon footprint 20x most other people. He's a dem, and dems aren't responsible for their contributions to the carbon in the atmosphere.

Thanks for clearing that up, speaksoftly. LOL

Never said I don't create carbon waste.

Again, I stopped reading at the lie, which luckily for me you usually start your posts with. That saves me a lot of time.

I never said you claimed you don't create carbon waste. I said you claimed you don't personal responsibility for it. And you did make that claim in post 114. You even C&Ped my response! LOL

Anyway, that you have to put words in my mouth says a lot about how strong your argument is. Thanks for that.

Probably why the Goatster feels so defensive when this topic comes up.

OK. I'll play along. I feel just as defensive as you feel hateful and remain in denial.

See, I can play the ad hominem game instead of debating points, too!

His paycheck comes from a company that is still sucking off the gubmint teat.

Donnerboy, you too suck off the government teat or you would be paying European prices for oil. You mortgage interest deduction is sucking off the government teat. Much of the food you eat is subsidized making it cheaper for you enabling you to further suck off the government teat.

So get off your high horse, OK, until you stop sucking off the government teat, too.

F'ing hypocrites -- can't stand 'em, can't kill 'em.

Religion really sucks, doesn't it Goat(locker)

It does. BTW, I was never a CPO