One small win for civilization.

#8, "they will also never execute a guilty one."

Not even a pretense of being troubled by a few innocents dying, so long as a little (possibly) guilty blood gets to be shed. Never mind that such justice won't right any wrongs or fix anything anyway, any more than permanent separation from society.

What separates these people from the worst of society again?

Not revenge, justice. Why should a murderer live when the victim can not. You all claim the death penalty is uncivilized, but you can not say why it is uncivilized, you just keep repeating the same BS.
Abort innocent babies and let murderers live, the liberal agenda
#49 | POSTED BY DANV AT 2013-03-19 12:07 PM | FLAG:

It's uncivilized because there can never be 100% certainty that all the people put to death are guilty. Because you can never be sure that someone innocent is not caught up in the very system you righties love to distrust in all other circumstances, but suddenly believe is infallible in your bloodlust for revenge killings.

It is uncivilized to me because despite being one of your so-called "baby killing lefties," - which by the way, perhaps this is hard for the republican mind to grasp - an undeveloped brain in a clump of cells the size of a tadpole is not a self-aware fully developed human, therefore, not a baby - but despite that designation, I was raised Christian, with Christian values. So why is it always the most religious who disregard Jesus's words to let "he who is without sin cast the first stone?" Why is a religion supposedly specifically about redemption, the fall of all men, in this circumstance co-opted to not give killers the opportunity to repent, to maybe in some way make a form or restitution, or if there is a God, make peace with him before this God takes their life, and not man?

Righties like this. They aren't pro-life, and shouldn't be allowed to take that designation. Nothing but forced birthers, more concerned with the potential of a clump of cells to differentiate itself into a human being, than they are with all the lives lost to inadequate healthcare, wars that we have lied our way into, or innocent lives caught in an imperfect justice system.

Simple solution is that life in prison makes sense. Society is protected. Those who are innocent, and I know it is few, but even one put to death by mistake is too much - have their lifetime to prove they are not guilty, if possible. Society does not stoop to the low of a killer. I don't know how this concept can be argued as inferior to believing in the infallibility of our justice system and the need for some sort of rough "justice" that will still never right any wrongs.

I quote chapter and verse like Satan in the wilderness ;)

Heuristicgratis, you would be shocked how much the Bible shaped my values and morality. So I don't believe it, I fail to see evidence for God and didn't exactly find the God of the Old Testament to be someone I could worship.

My mother still read us a chapter a night. I read the whole book a time or two on my own. I found Jesus to be admirable, a figure with a philosophy worth following.

I also find it disgusting how few Christians seem to feel the same about him, despite their greater belief.

It should be an argument for a different thread, truthfully, but if you want to play the semantics game, yes, a fetus is human. Perhaps I misspoke. Now, is it a person? Personhood, what I was loosely calling their humanity earlier, I can only best define as being self-aware, having the capacity for cognition and recognition of both internal and external states.

A heartbeat does not gift one with this. The brain is what I'm talking about. I would very comfortably draw the line for abortion as only being ok before the fetus has detectable brain waves, and not morally or ethically ok afterwards.

1) For most of human history there has never been a "healthcare system", healthcare is NOT a fundamental human right. 2) Almost every war in human history is based on lies and half-truths. 3) Again most of humans that have existed have never seen a "justice system", again a modern development. So stop whining about things not being perfect, be happy u have a relatively robust healthcare and justice system at all
Finally, why should murderers, many guilty without any doubt, not get the death penalty. Why should killers get the chance to read books, watch television, use the internet, talk with family and friends, maybe even have sex while the victim can not not.
#69 | POSTED BY DANV AT 2013-03-20 12:03 PM | FLAG:

By that logic, we should never demand improvement on any new developments. Progress is about... well, progress. For instance, now that we have a healthcare system, why shouldn't that be a right for all? No nation had such guaranteed freedoms as we have before us at the founding of our nation, either. Yet we were gifted with the Bill of Rights. It's not about whining about imperfection, but rather striving for perfection. In this case, I believe perfection is needed and demanded before death sentences should ever be carried out. The one innocent life that may be caught, that in fact has many times over the years is a far more sacred and valuable thing than all the "justice" that can ever be extracted out of "proper" applications of the death penalty. I am not defending murderers. I am saying the lives of the innocent are more important than the deaths of the guilty. Exponentially so.

Now about that chilling, watching tv part - I believe all non-violent crimes should be punished differently than our current criminal system does - maybe not jail, but much more along the lines of restitution and community service, harder, but shorter sentences, with prison only being an option for those who refuse to pay their debt to society. Freeing up room in jails and reducing costs so that truly violent offenders do "pay their fair share." A rapist, someone who assaults and batters others, these people should never do less time than drug users or prostitutes, or other perpetrators of "crimes" that are only crimes because we say they are, not because there was a victim. Then, when we have prisons narrowed down to only housing those who deserve to be there, should be work camps. Truly miserable places people do not want to go back to. And never leave if they have taken someone else's life.

There are laws against cruel and unusual punishment Sames1