Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Monday, March 18, 2013

Euro zone finance ministers want people holding bank deposits in Cyprus to forfeit a portion of their accounts -- 9.9 percent on accounts over 100,000 euros and 6.7 below that amount -- in return for a $13 billion bailout for the island, which has been financially crippled by its exposure to neighboring Greece. The decision, announced Saturday, stunned Cypriots and caused a run on ATM machines, most of which were depleted within hours. "I'm furious," said Chris Drake, a former correspondent for the BBC who lives in Cyprus. "There were plenty of opportunities to take our money out; we didn't because we were promised it was a red line which would not be crossed."

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The proposed levies on ALL deposits are 9.9 percent for those exceeding 100,000 euros and 6.7 percent on anything below that

#1 | Posted by roadrunner22 at 2013-03-17 10:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

the announcement coming on weekend to prevent Bank runs, has left ALL Cypress ATM's emptied

- on an unrelated (?) note: Obama was overheard to say... "hey, check if we can do that too"?

#2 | Posted by roadrunner22 at 2013-03-17 10:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

Do well and save. The more wealth you get the bigger target you become.

Nice.

Policies like that will empty the banks in Cypress and leave them in worse shape. Idiots.

#3 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-17 10:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

I would like to apologize to rr----didn't see this thread and put up a similar one.

#4 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-17 12:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

LOL!
The solution is to buy gold!

#5 | Posted by DRJIMMIES at 2013-03-17 12:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

I can't understand this laughable tendency to think everything bad that happens in Europe somehow will "come to the U.S. soon"

We're not Cypress.

We're not Greece.

We're not overrun by Muslim extremists.

We have freedom of speech, religion, etc.

#6 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2013-03-17 12:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Policies like that will empty the banks in Cypress and leave them in worse shape. Idiots.

#3 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-17 10:55 AM | Reply |

There are a couple of unintended consequences. People the world over are going to start to think of taking most of their deposits out of banks, even in the US----don't think the FDIC will save your sorry rearends either since this government and administration don't give a tinker's d____ about the rule of law.

Also, the rich in Russia use Cyprus for money laundering. The rich are former KGB and make up the government in Russia. Our good friend Putin was former KGB. Russia will not like this move and they'll get their pound of revenge if this happens.

#7 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-17 12:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

We're not Greece.

We're not overrun by Muslim extremists.

We have freedom of speech, religion, etc.

#2 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2013-03-17 12:04 PM | Reply |

Our debt situation is 100 times worse then Greece. We're overrun by lefty extremists. As the Philly mayor showed so poignantly freedom of speech is starting to be threatened.

Drjimmies may have said it "tongue in cheek" but he doesn't know how correct his statement of buying gold is. The crisis' are happening at a quicker pace and it's only a matter of time before it becomes a global crisis. Italy is back in the news again with its' interest rates again increasing; Spain's unemployment again increased, and France's taxpayers are leaving in droves. The Japanese and others are devaluing their currencies as fast as they can while we continue to print $85 billion/month. It's only a matter of time before our currency is again devalued.

#8 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-17 12:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

Financially, this country is worse off then many of the EU countries. The only thing (so far) saving our sorry rear-ends is something called the reserve currency and the unlimited printing of money. The reserve currency status is slowly being compromised behind the scenes by the change in trade status between nations who are slowly moving away from the US dollar as an intermediary in trade. This one is for DRJimmies---Turkey is now purchasing its' oil from Iran in gold. DRJimmies won't have much of sense of humor when gold moves ever higher and his fiat currency becomes more worthless with time.

#9 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-17 12:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

euro zone finance ministers want Cyprus savers to forfeit up to 9.9 percent of their deposits in return for a 10 billion euro ($13 billion) bailout to the island,...

Does the EU actually have the financial power to be able to force the people of Cyprus to turn over a portion of their personal savings accounts? If I was a resident of Cyprus I'd be at the bank the second the door opened on Monday morning and empty out every dime in my account.

If one EU member nation is allowed to do this, then they all will.

Europeans will be headed down a slippery, slippery slope if this is allowed to happen.

#10 | Posted by CalifChris at 2013-03-17 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

I would like to apologize to rr ---- didn't see this thread and put up a similar one.

#4 | Posted by matsop

You're forgiven : )

#11 | Posted by CalifChris at 2013-03-17 12:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Europeans will be headed down a slippery, slippery slope if this is allowed to happen.

#6 | Posted by CalifChris at 2013-03-17 12:42 PM | Reply |

And it will happen. Chris, look at what Iceland did when they tried a similar tactic. Iceland chose a different tack in dealing with its crisis. It essentially stiffed the IMF and the governments of the UK and The Netherlands, which were the source of hot money for Icelandic banks and which governments fully expected the Icelandic government to cover the losses. The Icelandic government refused, it allowed the banks to go under, it placed the losses on the the bank shareholders and bondholders, and it jailed the top bankers involved in the debacle. Iceland's economy took a severe hit, but the pain was relatively short term and the economy has recovered nicely.

As a nation we should have never allowed TARP. They engaged in histrionics/hysteria just as Obama did with sequester. The West has tried to save the global banks at the expense of the taxpayers. The irony is they've driven up debt more with minimal growth and eventually the whole system might still go----however, it'll be worse since the debt is even greater then it needed to be.

#12 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-17 12:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

One could say it could never happen here, but there are those on the left who have already put forth the idea of the govt taking control of all our 401k monies. With this administration I believe there is no limit to that they could try to do.

#13 | Posted by MSgt at 2013-03-17 01:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Paul Ryan Tells CBS' Bob Schieffer ‘We Do Not Have A Debt Crisis'

America is still a step ahead of the European nations that are confronting a debt crisis, of Japan that is in its second lost decade, it's partly because of our resilient economy, because of our world currency status. So we do not have a debt crisis right now but we see it coming. We know it's irrefutably happening and the point we're trying to make with our budget is let's get ahead of this problem," Ryan said.

RELATED: John Boehner Tells ABC He Trusts Obama, Agrees Debt Is ‘Not An Immediate Problem'

www.mediaite.com

#14 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-17 01:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

Matsop -

I wouldn't put it past the globalist banksters if they weren't floating the EU's takeover of bank customers' personal savings accounts in Cyprus as a sort of trial balloon to see if and how it might work over here. I put NOTHING past them.

#15 | Posted by CalifChris at 2013-03-17 01:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

So we do not have a debt crisis right now but we see it coming.

#6 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-17 01:02 PM | Reply |

Kind of how they saw the housing crisis coming----just too funny.

#16 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-17 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

-Financially, this country is worse off then many of the EU countries.

"America is still a step ahead of the European nations that are confronting a debt crisis." -Ryan, Boner, Obama

#17 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-17 01:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

And if folks in this country don't think it could happen; then they're dumber/blinder then I give them credit for. I bet we'll see things happen we could not ever have imagined. You can see the cracks in the foundation slowly increasing over time. I don't believe we can put the genie back in the bottle any longer. It'll be a race for the US financial car to see if it can make the crossing before that huge locomotive gets there.

#18 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-17 01:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

#8 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-17 01:20 PM | Reply

It's not only our internal debt compared to The EU countries but also our debt exposure to these EU countries which is estimated to be a cool $2 trillion----this no-one tells you about.

#19 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-17 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

I was a resident of Cyprus I'd be at the bank the second the door opened on Monday morning and empty out every dime in my account.

That's why there is going to be a bank holiday on Monday, Tuesday and perhaps Wednesday. If there are runs on banks in Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Greece and Italy (which is a real possibility), this holiday could conceivably extend for several more days.

I think we'll have a pretty good idea by Wednesday if the Euro will continue to exist.

#20 | Posted by ben_berkkake at 2013-03-17 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

We have freedom of speech, religion, etc.

#2 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2

for now...

we used to think that the govt couldn't require us to buy health care insurance either until a chief justice went temporarily insane..

#21 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2013-03-17 02:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think we'll have a pretty good idea by Wednesday if the Euro will continue to exist.

#11 | Posted by ben_berkkake at 2013-03-17 02:23 PM

Question, Ben --

if a run on the banks in Europe does cause the Euro to cease to exist, what happens to people who had all their bank accounts in Euros? Would they get an even exchange from the Euro to whatever new monetary denomination would be used -- or would all everyone's money held in Euros literally be wiped out?

I can't visualize the EU, should they be forced to, not at least transitioning away from the Euro to various other types of denominations in an organized manner and making good on people's bank deposits. Otherwise there'll be riots in the streets all over Europe.

#22 | Posted by CalifChris at 2013-03-17 02:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

#22 -- or would all everyone's money

Scratch "all"

#23 | Posted by CalifChris at 2013-03-17 02:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

if a run on the banks in Europe does cause the Euro to cease to exist, what happens to people who had all their bank accounts in Euros? Would they get an even exchange from the Euro to whatever new monetary denomination would be used -- or would all everyone's money held in Euros literally be wiped out?

What would happen is that I think you'd continue to see the Euro, but only as a reserve currency in European countries that are the most financially sound.

The financially insolvent will debase their currency and revert to their pre-Euro currencies.

#24 | Posted by ben_berkkake at 2013-03-17 04:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Fear A Run On Banks May Spread Across Borders(MOXNEWSd0tC0MM)

#25 | Posted by reitze at 2013-03-17 09:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

American Bank Runs - 7 Day Restriction on Bank Withdrawals (youtu.be'r)

#26 | Posted by reitze at 2013-03-17 09:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

This will be interesting to watch the fallout around the world.

#27 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-17 09:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

wednesday it is then, any bets?

#28 | Posted by ichiro at 2013-03-18 04:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

This may create a worldwide run on the banks to avoide the new socialism.

This is what the socialist do folks its what the Obama voters want in the US.

#29 | Posted by tmaster at 2013-03-18 10:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

The only socialism here, is another handout to crooked banksters. Guess who in charge at the EU Central Bank? Another Goldman-Sachs Exec, Mario Draghi. They screwed Greece over big time and now want to be first in line to get paid. That is the purpose of this tax.

#30 | Posted by nutcase at 2013-03-18 01:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

White House 'closely monitoring' Cyprus bailout effort

"I'm not going to comment on markets," Carney said. "You might see if Treasury officials will comment on them. I would simply say that we have long said that a strong stable Europe is in the interests of the United States."

The White House spokesman also declined to answer when asked generally if the White House had a general reaction to the Cyprus plan, under which the government would take 9.9 percent from all deposits in the nation's banks.

thehill.com

Listening to the barking dogs: property law against poverty in the non-West
Hernando de Soto

Imagine a country where nobody can identify who owns what, people cannot be made to pay their debts, resources cannot conveniently be turned into money, ownership cannot be divided through documents, descriptions of assets are not standardized and can not be easily compared, and the rules that govern property vary from neighborhood to neighborhood or even from street to street. You have just put yourself into the life of a developing country or former communist nation; more precisely, you have imagined life for 80 per cent of its population, which is marked off as sharply from its Westernized elite as black and white South Africans were once separated by apartheid.

Capitalism requires the bedrock of the rule of law, beginning with that of property. This is because the property system is much more than ownership: it is in fact the hidden architecture that organizes the market economy in every Western nation. What the property system accomplishes is so central to capitalism that developed nations have come to take its success for granted; indeed even most property experts are unsure about the connections between property systems and the creation of capital. Yet these connections exist.

www.cato.org

Confiscation of personal property and the White House has no comment? Shocked

#31 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-18 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

At this point in time in the USA all legal rights depend on class and sex. There is one set of rules for women, another for men, one set of laws for the rich and powerful and another for the disenfranchised poor.

#32 | Posted by nutcase at 2013-03-18 02:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

Soon to happen here in the USA.

#33 | Posted by Sniper at 2013-03-18 05:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

we used to think that the govt couldn't require us to buy health care insurance either until a chief justice went temporarily insane..

#21 | Posted by afkabl2

Is that the same SC that allowed the city to condem a private property so they could build a casino and pay more in taxes?

#34 | Posted by Sniper at 2013-03-18 05:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Soon to happen here in the USA.
#33 | Posted by Sniper

You've got as much evidence for that bit of fractured prognostication as you do for the Kerry Tape you never produced.

Well done!

#35 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2013-03-18 05:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

You've got as much evidence for that bit of fractured prognostication as you do for the Kerry Tape you never produced.
Well done!

#35 | POSTED BY DOC_SARVIS

Did you have any evidence of the Cyprus levy? No... it has to be a surprise or else you will get a run. As mentioned above 401K's have been proposed....you think they will discuss this in the open? silly you..... why would they? what would happen?

"No man's life, liberty, or property. is safe. while the legislature is in session." - Mark Twain

Well done indeed... red pill Doc red pill....

#36 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2013-03-18 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here's some breaking news for you, Chicken Little: lack of evidence is not evidence of an impending catastrophe.

And, folks, we have a winnah in the Cerebral Contortion Event! Congratulations, Andrea. Treat yourself to a cheap ceegar.

#37 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2013-03-18 05:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Ask the GM bond holders. It already happened here.

#38 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-18 05:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Since when do libs require "evidence of an impending catastrophe?" If they apply their drone strike logic to bank levies, Obama would have to fire a missile at Bernanke while he discusses them at a cafe in Georgetown.

#39 | Posted by JOE at 2013-03-18 05:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Punish the prudent and provident to make up for the sloth and misdeeds of others. A disincentive economy and society similar to the United States.
Sometimes they do it by the cruel, unfair and gross inflation of the currency-another cruel hidden tax on the producers, by the looters and the moochers.

#40 | Posted by Donald at 2013-03-18 10:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

You've got as much evidence for that bit of fractured prognostication as you do for the Kerry Tape you never produced.

Well done!

#35 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

yeah or like the GUY who TOLD harry reid that mitt didn't pay income taxes for ten years....same stuff right?

#41 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2013-03-18 11:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

I can't understand this laughable tendency to think everything bad that happens in Europe somehow will "come to the U.S. soon"

That's because you are liberal and you think your point of view is sustainable. You dont think you are wrong, but you are..

#42 | Posted by boaz at 2013-03-19 11:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

Banks are the problem, not poor people. Government debt will recover easily when people return to the workforce, but little is being dona bout that. Banks seek to maximize their profits and were resposnible for 50% of all Corporate profits in 2008. They accomplished this by coaxing people to borrow more and more based on a speculative bubble of rising asset prices instead of their ability to repay.

Private debt is a bigger problem, student loans, millions of people underwater on their mortgages, Corporate mergers and aquisitions...$38 trillion all told. This dwarfs the Government debt which is roughly equal to the bailout of $16 trillion. Bank profits skyrocketed by burdenign the economy with debt carved out of tax reductions.

So as usual the propaganda machine is proclaiming Government debt crisis, Government debt crisis, after Rethugs ran up the debt without so much as a wimper of similar talk during their tenure. What a load of BS.

#43 | Posted by nutcase at 2013-03-19 01:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Government debt crisis, after Rethugs ran up the debt
#43 | POSTED BY NUTCASE

Come on NUTCASE you can do better than that. Greek Cypriots are Rethugs? If you had blamed it on the Ottomans I could buy that as it is a history of poor governance that brought Cyprus to this point. The banks are not backed with bonds like most financial organizations so there are no bond holders to fleece only depositors.

#44 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 01:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

Daylight robbery in Cyprus will come to haunt EMU

One's first reflex is to gasp at the stupidity of the EU policy elites, but truth is that most EU officials handling the Cyprus crisis know perfectly well that their masters have just set the slow fuse on a powder keg – and they can only pray that it is slow.

The decision to expropriate Cypriot savers – even the poorest – was imposed by Germany, Holland, Finland, Austria, and Slovakia, whose only care at this stage is to assuage bail-out fatigue at home and avoid their own political crises.

What is clear is that Angela Merkel will not risk defeat in the elections in September by ceding a single vote to Social Democrats determined to hold her feet to the fire over a bail-out for "Russian oligarchs, money-launderers, and tax evaders" in Cyprus, or by ceding votes to the new anti-euro party Alternative fur Deutschland. She will look after her own political interests, and all the rest is humbug.

The danger may not be immediate but if the economies of Portugal, Spain, and Italy languish through this year in deep slump with no green shoots of recovery starting to sprout in the second half – as many fear – this new dispensation will be tested. The fatal precedent of haircuts for depositors will start to matter a great deal. Hell hath no fury like a saver robbed.

blogs.telegraph.co.uk

#45 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 01:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

You've got as much evidence for that bit of fractured prognostication as you do for the Kerry Tape you never produced.

Well done!

#35 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis

Give it a rest dok. Sober up and give it a rest.

#46 | Posted by Sniper at 2013-03-19 02:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

pancon,

Keynes proved a century ago that austerity does not work.

I'm a bit off topic there talking about the USA, but keep in mind that Greece's implosion was triggered by Goldman-Sachs Bonds issued by hiding Greek debt and then betting against the bonds they issued. We've seen this movie before. The parrallels are creepy, but one important difference is Greece cannot issue its own currency, a priviledge Sweden and England preserved for themselves even as they joined the EU. Mario Draghi is a former Goldman-Sachs Exec running the EU Central Bank and demanding the Banks be made whole. This can never happen and the Banks know it. Their plan is to extract as much money through the pain and suffering of others as they possibly can before the payments stop, as they quickly did in Iceland and Argentina. This fact is just as disturbing to creditor countries as the Banks.

But, I'm glad you understand the Banker's current plan is to fleece people who saved. After all where else can you get the money if you can't print it?

#47 | Posted by nutcase at 2013-03-19 02:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

Looks like they are not a dumb as they look in Cyprus

Cyprus's Parliament Rejects a Tax on Bank Deposits

Cyprus's parliament overwhelmingly rejected a tax on bank deposits as a condition of an international bailout.

Thirty-six members of the 56-seat parliament voted against the measure, while 19 abstained.

Meanwhile a government source told CNBC that the country's finance minister Michael Sarris had tendered his resignation. The source said his resignation had not been accepted by Cyprus's president.

www.cnbc.com

#48 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 02:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

But, I'm glad you understand the Banker's current plan is to fleece people who saved. After all where else can you get the money if you can't print it?
#47 | POSTED BY NUTCASE

Where is the difference in what almost happened in Cyprus and what Ben Bernanke has done to Americans. Qualitative easing has taken at lease 5% per year out of the American savings? If your in the market the 14,000 DOW we see now is not the same as 14,000 DOW prior to QE1?

#49 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

#48. It would not have ended well, not just for Greece, but the entire continent.j Luckily cooler heads of Greece's Parliment prevailed.

#50 | Posted by goatman at 2013-03-19 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

If your in the market the 14,000 DOW we see now is not the same as 14,000 DOW prior to QE1?

In order to purchase Dow 14k in 2007 the cost was 19 ounces of gold.

Purchasing Dow 14k in 2013 costs right around 9 ounces of gold.

A 10 percent haircut sounds like a deal.

#51 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2013-03-19 02:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Keynes proved a century ago that austerity does not work.
#47 | POSTED BY NUTCASE

The issue with you fair weather keynesian's is you only support the part of Keynes that supports your spending.

If we are going to be Keynesians in the downturn, we have to be Keynesians on the way up again. That means a speedy return to surplus … I want to explain how one of the 20th Century's great thinkers, John Maynard Keynes, helped us find the answer, in the process influencing the Government's response to both the global downturn and our strategy for the recovery. More broadly, I want to describe how economic policy informs the delivery of not just responsible management but a modern progressive agenda. Most importantly, I want to make the point that being a Keynesian means supporting a counter-cyclical fiscal policy with government making room for the private sector when economic growth is strong.

One important aspect of Keynes' work that has been deliberately under-emphasised by conservative critics is that phrase "counter-cyclical" – because it implies the opposite of the critics' claim that Keynesian policies constitute a recipe for ever-increasing rates of public spending as a proportion of GDP.

once growth and prosperity have been restored, they have an equal responsibility to restrain public expenditure, budget for surpluses and reduce debt in climbing out.

bilbo.economicoutlook.net

#52 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 02:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

#51 | POSTED BY BEN_BERKKAKE

Thanks it amazing how few people get this.

#53 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 02:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

#53 | Still whining about the effects of the Great GOP Recession?

You should get over it.

#54 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-19 03:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

In order to purchase Dow 14k in 2007 the cost was 19 ounces of gold.

Purchasing Dow 14k in 2013 costs right around 9 ounces of gold.

A 10 percent haircut sounds like a deal.

#51 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2013-03-19

.
What does that mean exactly - "purchasing Dow 14k"?

#55 | Posted by CalifChris at 2013-03-19 03:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Serious question -- would a realistic person here in the U.S. cash out their bank savings account in light of what's happened in Cyprus?

I don't want any "sky is falling" nutty answers. Just an educated opinion. Thanks.

Also, what signs should we look for here in our own country that would give one a heads up that U.S. banks might be getting ready to do the same thing to investors here as was done in Cyprus?

and last question -- would banks be able to get their hands on Money Market accounts in the same way as they went after 10% of people's savings accounts in Cyprus or are Money Market accounts untouchable?

#56 | Posted by CalifChris at 2013-03-19 03:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

#54 | POSTED BY CORKY

Still deluding yourself that Democrats and Clinton had nothing to do with it?

#57 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 03:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

#55 | POSTED BY CALIFCHRIS

I don't know where Ben got that but this might help some

The second chart show the effect of QE.

home.earthlink.net

#58 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 04:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Serious question -- would a realistic person here in the U.S. cash out their bank savings account in light of what's happened in Cyprus?
#56 | POSTED BY CALIFCHRIS

No as long as you are under the $250,000 FDIC Deposit Insurance Coverage for Banks. Comes down to the "Full Faith and Credit clause"

www.law.cornell.edu

Also, what signs should we look for here in our own country that would give one a heads up that U.S. banks might be getting ready to do the same thing to investors here as was done in Cyprus?
#56 | POSTED BY CALIFCHRIS

The election of Barack Obama? GM bond holders already got a hair cut to the tune of 17.5 cents on the dollar. By this I mean that anything is possible but unlikely. What is likely is a loss of wealth due to the dollar be depreciated. This is a tax you never see but feel.

#59 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 04:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

#57

Still deluding yourself that it was GOP policy of borrowing money to start wars and deregulating everything in sight that was not the main causal factor?

#60 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-19 04:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

#60 | POSTED BY CORKY

Who passed on regulating derivatives? Dems also voted to start Afghanistan and the Deficit in 2007 was down to 161 billion before Queen Pelosi too over.

Any more Lib balloon lies I can pop for you?

#61 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 04:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

You said you were amazed at how people don't get what are ultimately the effects of the Great Recession that happened on your guy's watch and would not have happened had he not exasperated other problems by spending like a drunken sailor and starting wars on the credit card.

If you want to pretend that "Starve the Beast" and "let the Democrats tidy up" hase not been GOP policy for the last 30+ years, and still is, then go right ahead and live in denial.

#62 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-19 04:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

"would banks be able to get their hands on Money Market accounts in the same way as they went after 10% of people's savings accounts in Cyprus or are Money Market accounts untouchable?"

I don't know. that would be quite a feat.

#63 | Posted by eberly at 2013-03-19 04:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

#62 | POSTED BY CORKY

You may be the perfect Democrat. Completely oblivious to data and facts but right there when it time to toss out some lib dogma.

#64 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 05:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

What does that mean exactly - "purchasing Dow 14k"?

If you bought all the stocks that make up the DOW with gold in 2007, it would take you 19 ounces of Gold to buy those stocks.

If you bought all the stocks that make up the DOW with gold in 2013, it would take you 9 ounces of Gold to buy those stocks.

Using gold as the measuring stick, the stock market has been devalued by more than 50 percent since it last hit 14k.

  • www.macrotrends.org

  • Oil is another one to chart against gold. When the usual idiots...ahem...I mean suspects talk about "speculators driving up the price", check this chart. Gold don't lie.

  • www.macrotrends.org
  • #65 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2013-03-19 05:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

    Serious question -- would a realistic person here in the U.S. cash out their bank savings account in light of what's happened in Cyprus?

    If you are in JP Morgue, BoA, Wells Fargo? I would...

    Cyprus has "depositor insurance" as well. Well, they did.

    #66 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2013-03-19 05:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

    #64

    You may be the perfect Egyptian, living in de Nile.

    GOP policy has been the same for since Reagan and Krystol. Tear down the government by calling it "evil" and cut taxes until it can't operate.

    You do your corporate masters well.

    #67 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-19 05:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

    "cut taxes until it can't operate."

    can't operate?

    that's pretty hysterical (and I don't mean funny)...by anybody's standards.

    #68 | Posted by eberly at 2013-03-19 05:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

    tomorrow's Wednesday, is the euro done? no.

    #69 | Posted by ichiro at 2013-03-19 05:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

    That is the stated goal of, "Starve the Beast", laughing boy.

    #70 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-19 05:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

    "You do your corporate masters well."

    So does the DNC.

    #71 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-19 05:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

    Starve the Beast is an expression.

    not a reality.

    www.usgovernmentspending.com

    you're half right. there is a beast....but it's not starving.

    certainly not by the folks you pretend did.

    #72 | Posted by eberly at 2013-03-19 05:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

    from what I read, this was just banks in Cyprus, right?

    not other financial institutions such as mutual fund/brokerage houses or life insurance/annuity companies, right??

    #73 | Posted by eberly at 2013-03-19 05:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

    not so fast.......

    www.marketwatch.com

    #74 | Posted by eberly at 2013-03-19 05:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

    That is the stated goal of, "Starve the Beast", laughing boy.

    #70 | Posted by Corky at 2

    Yes starving the beast was and has been the goal of the Conservatives since Reagan, but to ignore what Clinton did to bring us to where we are today by deregulation's would be a folly too

    #75 | Posted by PunchyPossum at 2013-03-19 06:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

    tomorrow's Wednesday, is the euro done? no.

    Part of that prognostication was contingent on Cyprus banks reopening. Well, there will be no banks opening this week...maybe next week?

    Although, I do hear there are plenty of investment opportunities in the Eurozone...

    #76 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2013-03-19 07:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

    While Pancon is laying most of it out in black and white, including the fact that Demowussies play a critical role in our current situation, Gramm-Leach-Bliley (Securities Modernization Act of 2000) are most certainly the creation of Rethugs. Phil Gramm had the audacity to pass this crap bill at 11PM the night before Congress's Christmas break. That earned him a seat on USB Swiss Bank's Board, another receiver of taxpayer bailout dollars, and his wife a seat on the audit committee for Enron where she did a bang up job. USB is the author of numerous tax dodging schemes for rich people, yet still received their bailout dollars after paying heavy fines for authoring those schemes. The man who turned in the list of 2000 American tax dodgers using USB's schemes was thrown in jail. Romney was almost certainly one of them, which made it impossible for him to disclose all his tax returns.

    Rethugs are in your face thieves while the wussies do much of the same behind closed doors. Bill Clinton has publically admitted it was a mistake to sign Phil Gramm's legislation. But a poor fellow caught with his pant's down is a prime candidate for blackmail.

    Then when the whole thing blows up in our faces, Phil Gramm announces that Americans are just a bunch of whiners! Caught with his hands in the cookie jar, he blames poor people, never admitting to his role or the pack of lies he uses to justify his profoundly corrupt behavior. There is a quid pro quo. Phil Gramm and his wife belong in prison for all the money they have stolen using the power of the Finance Committe Chair position he once held in Congress. Larry Summers and his patron Robert Rubin are equally culpible, having pocketed millions in the private sector after leaving the public sector changed in self serving ways. We don't yet know how Geithner will be rewarded for his crimes against American workers but a reward is guaranteed.

    Without the changes in law Phil Gramm rammed through, there would never have been a Long Term Capital Management collapse, or CitiCorp swallowing Travelers illegally, or all the unpunished crimes which followed. At least Bush threw two or three key players in Enron in prison. Almost 1000 Executives were imprisoned after the S&L crisis. Yet, both Bush and Obama have turned a blind eye to our criminal finance sector, preferring bailouts to imprisonment.

    #77 | Posted by nutcase at 2013-03-19 07:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

    "Ask the GM bond holders. It already happened here."
    #38 | Posted by paneocon

    Obama asses a 3.8% levy on sold assets with a value over $200k to help pay for ObamaCare. Add to that the $63 surcharge per employee an employer must pay to offset ObamaCare recipients whose health costs exceeds the baseline.

    #78 | Posted by KBM at 2013-03-19 08:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

    Gramm-Leach-Bliley (Securities Modernization Act of 2000)
    #77 | POSTED BY NUTCASE

    Gramm-Leach-Bliley AKA Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 is very different than Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.

    Gramm-Leach-Bliley does away with Glass–Steagall Act. Which was already in progress when CitiBank and Travelers insurance were allow to merge earlier in the Clinton administration (which should have been illegal).

    Gramm-Leach-Bliley
    en.wikipedia.org

    Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000
    the deregulation of financial products known as over-the-counter derivatives.
    en.wikipedia.org

    2000 Commodities Act Paved Way For Problems

    hat happened was the President's Working Group met again in November '99 and agreed that credit default swaps should go largely unregulated. And that was influential in helping to pass the Commodity Futures Modernization Act a little over a year later, in late 2000.

    BLOCK: Well, let's talk about that, that law. This was inserted - many, many pages inserted into a broader bill by then-Senator Phil Gramm, Republican of Texas. But it had the support of the Clinton administration, key players in the Clinton administration, and Democratic senators. How did it get passed? Was there debate? Was anybody paying attention?

    Mr. HIRSH: Not really. I mean, it was stuck in the middle of this 10,000-page authorization bill, and it happened very quickly. I mean, I will say that the then-Treasury Secretary Larry Summers - who's now President Obama's chief economic advisor. Summers, who had replaced Rubin, did give testimony in which he said very plainly that he thought swaps should be largely unregulated as derivatives. He did give some caveats, saying, you know, we should keep some protections against fraud and manipulation and so on. But it did have his imprimatur and the letter from the Treasury Department supporting, for the most part, the Commodity Futures Modernization Act, as it was drafted, was used by Phil Gramm at the time as part of his campaign to help sell it.

    www.npr.org

    While Phil Gramm should go to He(( for this he should take a lot of the Dems and the Clinton administration with him.

    #79 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 10:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

    #77 | POSTED BY NUTCASE

    You did a pretty good job but you can't look past your bias's to find the truth. I have in the past posted the campaign money that passed into the senate and house prior to this and it is clear that laws can be had by the highest bidder. I'm not at a computer with sound tonight but Clinton's signing ceremony for the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 is on You Tube and leaves no doubt that he was all in on this one and he has a lot of company

    #80 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 10:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

    Gramm's version of things. Some where in the middle lives the truth.

    Phil Gramm Says the Banking Crisis Is (Mostly) Not His Fault

    Now these laws are under fire, cited by critics -- mostly but not exclusively on the political left -- as major precipitating causes of the financial meltdown. And while both were signed into law by Bill Clinton, Gramm has taken the most heat.

    So the American Enterprise Institute, a right-leaning think tank, invited Gramm in Friday to make his case and take some questions. The crowd was heavy on the conservative Washington notables --

    ll he and the Clinton Administration were trying to do with the 2000 bill, he claimed, was establish that interest-rate and currency swaps -- two relatively uncontroversial forms of over-the-counter derivatives -- couldn't be regulated as futures by the CFTC. At the time, credit-default swaps weren't on the radar, and the bill didn't prevent the Securities and Exchange Commission or bank regulators from stepping in with new rules.

    One force was a Federal Reserve interest-rate policy that was appropriate for the previous "inventory cycle" recessions since World War II, but didn't fit at all the collapse of a speculative bubble in the stock market in 2001 and 2002. Consumers, and the housing market, weren't in a recession at all -- and the Fed's super-low rates precipitated a bubble. "We inadvertently stimulated an industry that was already in boom conditions," Gramm said. "This changed everything. It changed consumption behavior, it changed lending behavior."

    Instead, he said they were simply part of a decades-long, bipartisan push -- from Capitol Hill, the White House, the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and even bank regulators -- for ever more mortgage lending on ever easier terms.

    The result was an environment in which official Washington seemed to believe that no home loan could be a bad home loan. "What we did and what we started was not just to push banks to make marginal loans, but to give them an excuse and to give them regulatory cover," he said. "Countrywide became HUD's poster child for what a good lender was like."

    The Great Deregulator has thus become a believer in regulation, at least in the messed up mortgage market. That's because the alternative to concluding that the mortgage market is in need of serious reform, Gramm said, is to conclude that financial capitalism doesn't work. And he's nowhere near ready to conclude that.

    Read more: www.time.com

    #81 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-19 10:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

    Obamacare comes close to doing this anyway.. 7) Pg 59, lines 21-24 gives direct access to your banks accounts to compel you to pay any out-of-pocket or premium costs electronically without your previous consent.

    #82 | Posted by dorakin at 2013-03-19 11:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

    Like I said, Clinton has admitted signing that legislation was a mistake.

    Greenspan, Rubin, Summers, Geithner and Levitt ran Brookley Born out of Washington. It was one part of their plan to deregulate the financial sector where they would all return and cash in on the changes. As chair of CFTC, Ms Born predicted the consequences of these predators deregulation precisely. Frontline's "The Warning" details these events. Levitt has since apologized for his role and heaped praise on Ms Born. The other four refuse interview and deny error. Summers left a trail of destruction from Harvard to the entire Russian economy, which apparently qualified him to return and help destroy our economy as well. He has justified his policies by declaring that it raised the living standards of China. He clearly doesn't care what happens to Americans. In fact he is at war with them. What does the bi-partisan support of these rich 'experts" at deception say about Washington? How many times can they fail and stay in charge? Has anything important changed for the better?

    #83 | Posted by nutcase at 2013-03-20 12:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

    Clinton and the Dems made the mistake of trusting the Rethugs who told them that since the current law didn't cover the new derivatives anyway, they would agree to revisit the laws concerning those in the new legislative session.

    They lied.

    #84 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-20 12:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

    Dems made the mistake of trusting

    Some things never change.

    #85 | Posted by Alexandrite at 2013-03-20 12:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

    GM bond holders already got a hair cut to the tune of 17.5 cents on the dollar.

    Bonds are an investment, and investments are inherently risky.
    Putting your money in the bank isn't supposed to carry risk.

    #86 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-03-20 03:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

    Clinton and the Dems made the mistake of trusting the Rethugs
    #84 | POSTED BY CORKY

    That is with out a doubt one of your weakest deflections. So we are to assume from your statement that Dems are not as smart as Republicans?

    #87 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-20 06:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

    #83 | POSTED BY NUTCASE

    Again your knowledge in this area is very impressive I would just like you to see the that when we play our little us and them games the real power in Washington. DC, "big money" gets it's way, from Goldman Sacks to the Tides Foundation everyone has an agenda. When you can get something as sweeping as the repeal of Glass–Steagall Act and you do in in broad daylight, I do blame the politicians but I also blame us. I know I didn't even know that was going on in Washington back then. I don't think that is true now but in ten years will we look back at the drone business going on today and say what the heck was Washington doing?

    #88 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-20 06:54 AM | Reply | Flag:

    Bonds are an investment, and investments are inherently risky.
    #86 | POSTED BY SNOOFY

    The rule of law is clear. In a bankruptcy primary bond holders are made whole first. This is the foundation of raising capital. In the White Houses "organized bankruptcy" pension obligations and the Union were made whole ahead of suppliers and bond holders.

    #89 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-20 06:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

    Bet there were some crapped undies on this mistake, Kind of funny in a sick way.

    Chase Customers See Bank Balance Reduced to Zero
    Millions of Chase Bank customers were affected by an unfortunately timed glitch which resulted in their checking and savings accounts showing a zero balance for several hours yesterday, prompting many to take to Twitter and express panic that their money had been stolen.

    Reaction to the glitch was undoubtedly made more intense by the fact that the top global news story yesterday was about how residents of Cyprus were facing a mandatory "tax" that would see 10 per cent of their savings plundered for a banker bailout.

    www.infowars.com

    #90 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-20 07:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

    Obama asses a 3.8% levy on sold assets with a value over $200k to help pay for ObamaCare. Add to that the $63 surcharge per employee an employer must pay to offset ObamaCare recipients whose health costs exceeds the baseline.

    #78 | POSTED BY KBM AT 2013-03-19 08:26 PM | REPLY | FLAG

    Not to mention a 3.8% tax on investment income for people with AGI over $250,000 (married filing jointly) and .9% additional medicare tax on people with wages or earned income over $200,000.

    Besides, your side bitches about Medicare being broke all the time. Now you are bitching about the opportunity to fix it. You are just never happy.

    #91 | Posted by 726 at 2013-03-20 07:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

    Its ridiculous how many people in this country don't have a clue. A tribute to the collusion and corruption between Government, mass media and class warfare profiteers.

    #92 | Posted by nutcase at 2013-03-20 07:48 AM | Reply | Flag:

    #87 Proud that they lied.

    #93 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-20 11:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

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