Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, March 15, 2013

For the past week, Washington has been consumed by nutty fantasies about drones. Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., waged a 13-hour filibuster, ranting that President Obama might unilaterally send unmanned aircraft to kill innocent Americans in their own country.

Other senators, Republican House leaders, conservative pundits, and right-wing demagogues encouraged this lunacy. It's a complete misunderstanding of how drones work and what we should be asking about them.

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Corky

 

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If you want to understand drones, tune out the rants. Read well-sourced reports about how the United States government actually prepares, justifies, and executes drone strikes. The best such report in quite a while is Sunday's 3,600-word investigative story in the New York Times about the targeted killing of Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born al-Qaida operative.

The story -- based, according to the Times, on "interviews with three dozen current and former legal and counterterrorism officials and outside experts" -- punctures several myths about the drone program. But it also raises deeper and more difficult questions about how targets are chosen and justified. Here's what we can learn from it.

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"The best such report in quite a while is Sunday's 3,600-word investigative story in the New York Times about the targeted killing of Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born al-Qaida operative."

www.nytimes.com

People on all sides of the argument will find juicy quotes (in or out of context) they can use to back their points in both of these articles.

My take is that although the the strike against al Awlaki was legal both under US law regarding overseas deaths and under the military authority granted the Exec in the 2001 AUMF, that more transparency in the process (as much as can be had with Nat Sec issues) and a more definitive process including some judicial review are required going forward.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-15 10:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

You can't get round the FACT that drones only kill innocent people. It doesn't matter what you are suspected of. You are innocent until proven guilty.

Presumption of innocence
en.wikipedia.org

There is no point of fighting terrorists if you're going to act like one.

#2 | Posted by Species8472 at 2013-03-15 11:04 AM | Reply | Flag:

#2 I'm just glad you read both articles and gave the matter serious consideration in light of what they had to say.

#3 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-15 11:06 AM | Reply | Flag:

If there is not a court or mechanism set up for drone strikes in the states Paul should lead the charge to create legislation to do so and validate his campaign for civil liberties. Paul was probably doing a little "trolling" with his question to Holder. Holder bit and answered what was probably a vague question the wrong way assuming the question was under "is there any circumstance" where a drone could be used. Then Paul nuanced it w/ more specific scenarios of conspiracy etc... But, that's just my take.

#4 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-03-15 11:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Somebody please splain me how collateral damage from drone welfare is more objectionable than traditional bombs dropped ala "Shock and Awe"?

#5 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2013-03-15 11:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

BTW, not talking about drone attacks on US soil.

#6 | Posted by oldwhiskeysour at 2013-03-15 11:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

Somebody please splain me how collateral damage from drone welfare is more objectionable than traditional bombs dropped ala "Shock and Awe"?


Due to the view of "no American lives being at risk" make starting wars easier and with less public outrage. This is shown repeatedly here. Americans no longer care we are invading and killing in other countries because they risk nothing. Obama took office with us in 2 countries and people were outraged. We are now in 8 and nobody cares. It is the ease of engaging in war and the belief that killing with drones is not war that makes it so repellant. It sanitized war.

#7 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-15 11:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

#7 | Posted by kanrei
We are now in 8 and nobody cares. It is the ease of engaging in war and the belief that killing with drones is not war that makes it so repellant. It sanitized war.

Time to move the conversation forward?

Is the "War on Terror" Lawful? "The "Authorization to Use Military Force" serves as the primary legal foundation for the ongoing conflict, but it is now obsolete. What should replace it?"

#8 | Posted by et_al at 2013-03-15 12:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

Is the "War on Terror" Lawful? "The "Authorization to Use Military Force" serves as the primary legal foundation for the ongoing conflict, but it is now obsolete. What should replace it?"


No it is not. I still believe terrorism is a tool used, not something one can fight against or rid the world of. Anytime you have a David fighting a Goliath, you will see David use any means they can to win, and that often is terrorism.

In WW2, Hitler had a standing order that all Commando squads were to be executed on sight because he felt they were terrorists. He said real armies fight on battlefields, so small squads behind enemy lines are not soldiers, but terrorists.

The term is too vague to use for policy.

#9 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-15 12:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

#8

"The AUMF authorizes the president to "use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, . . . ."

The authorization of "force" in the AUMF is the main legal basis for the president's power to detain and target members of al Qaeda and The Taliban.

In addition, since September 11, Congress, two presidential administrations, and the lower federal courts have interpreted the "force" authorized by the AUMF to extend to members or substantial supporters of the Taliban and al Qaeda, and associated forces."

from your link.

Should we move on? Maybe yes, maybe no. But this is the current effective law and was when al-Awlaki was killed.

#10 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-15 12:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

#10 | Posted by Corky

How did I guess you would find a "cheer" to lead from the sideline? Completely missing the point of the essay to focus on your meme de jour.

Yes, the the AUMF is current law, haven't seen any one say otherwise. That law is constrained by international law and the LOAC. See, Hamdan Some can't grasp that fact, mirrors available.

The AUMF is obsolete.

Will the legislative and executive branches do anything about it. Current prognostication is no. Why? Stupid politics.

#11 | Posted by et_al at 2013-03-15 01:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Courts just dealt a major blow to the CIA's secretive drone practices:
www.politico.com

#12 | Posted by HeuristicGratis at 2013-03-15 02:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

#11 Counselors Mr. Barron and Mr. Lederman disagree with your opinion, as do many others.

#13 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-15 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#12
"implausible for the CIA to assert that it needed to keep secret the very question of whether it maintains any information on the subject."

Sounds reasonable. They can say they keep info on a subject without disclosing any vital security info.

"Major blow" sounds like a bit much for some courtroom maneuvering, though.

#14 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-15 02:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

#13 | Posted by Corky
Counselors Mr. Barron and Mr. Lederman disagree with your opinion, as do many others.

As I advised before, lawyers don't "define" authority (law), they provide opinions. I'll go with an opinion that does define law. See, Hamdan.

Found a mirror yet?

#15 | Posted by et_al at 2013-03-15 02:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

Cheer leading.... mirrors.... the lame attempts at insult only demean your whatever merit your argument might have. Little as that is.

#16 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-15 02:17 PM | Reply | Flag:

First came authoritarian liberal. Now there is "libertarian hijacking."

[That is] libertarians form a short-term coalition with progressive Democrats on national security issues, only to pack up and basically go home once they have extracted concessions that don't actually resolve the real issues. Even worse, in both cases, such efforts appeared to consume most (if not all) of the available oxygen and political capital, obfuscating, if not downright suppressing, the far more problematic elements of the relevant national security policy.

Cheerleaders, entertaining but of no practical use.

#17 | Posted by et_al at 2013-03-15 02:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

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