"and why not tarrifs on China produts? Typical Dems, they have a good idea on something and do a half-ass job of it."

Why not leave it all up to the consumers? If they don't want their dollars going to China, they can buy american-made goods.

"We should have tariffs on any foreign product made with substandard wages."

Substandard wage: Any offered wage that is below the standard accepted by the workers.

IOW there are no products made with substandard wages, because workers don't work for substandard wages.

"But many of their cars are now made in the USA. The justification for tarrifs on such products requires exceptionally selfish, hypocritical thinking. Otherwise tarrifs on imports are just good for the country and Japan knows that, even if we don't"

No, tarriffs are good for US automakers forced to employe union labor at 130% of market value who still need to be competitive. Tarriffs don't help me even one little bit. In fact they are an imposition on my freedom to buy whatever product suits me best by arbitrarily altering market conditions. I probably wouldn't buy a Toyota Tundra, with its sissy little 5.7L engine-not when I can get a GMC with a 6.2L (6.7L if you go Diesel), but if I were able to do so at a lesser cost it might alter my decision calculus.

"Because most people only act out of short term self interest, it is the government's job to act out of concern for the long term well-being of a society.

People will usually choose the cheapest option. They don't realize or care if the cheapest option will eventually lead to the destruction of their own economy."

In other words, the people don't need freedom, they need a shepherd. Smoeone to make sure they don't make the wrong decision.

It's a good thing I have people like you willing to look out for me. Make sure you remind me to breathe once in a while, in case I forget.

"Try again. People need a limit on their freedom at the point where it hurts other citizens. The freedom to buy cheap foreign goods and destroy american jobs hurts everyone here, and it's the government's role to protect citizens of this country. That's what tariffs do."

You're not protecting me when you force me to buy an american product over a foreing one in order to ensure that an american unskilled worker can earn a wage far above what his labor is actually worth. What you're doing is buying that workers vote.

If you're going to be a fascist, at least be honest about it. That's way more respectable than trying to pretend that you're fvcking me for my own good.

"What people need is a measured dose of both."

You'll need to refresh my memory as to the last time a flock of sheep voted for their shepherd. But you've never concealed you're fascist tendencies. The obligation to act as shepherd is the noblesse oblige of the modern progressive.

"What your doing is protecting your workforce"

No. What you are doing is subsidzing that segment of your workforce that has an economic value commensurate to that of your average developing world child. What you're doing is demand that an american be able to survive as the lowest common denominator by demanding that everyone else subsidize him. He doesn't have to compete with third world labor. he chooses to. Mostly because people like you incentivize it.

"And tariffs aren't there to protect YOU and your wallet. They exist to protect your entire society from downsliding into a third world status."

Because without tarriffs, I am going to be poor? Your average doctor is going to be poor? Your average engineer is going to be poor?

Wages increased by an avager of about 3.5% last year for college graduates, so if you want a good income, you know the way ahead. Claiming anything to the contrary is just more BS intended to convince people that, without someone like you, they will inevitably suck at life.

"If you want honesty, you should admit that you care more about your own wallet today than the economy of your country tomorrow."

I don't just care about my wallet. I care about yours too. And my neighbors. And my childrens. And they shouldn't suffer so that you can purchase political power at their expense.

At the end of the day, your progressive BS does nothing for me or my family. Or anyone else who is willing to cowboy up and do something of value. Your position appeals to those who would prefer to get paid for doing nothing. Or not really nothing. they have to vote for the correct shepherd.

"That's because your conservative fallacy is that you are separate from the society you live in, and you think that a policy that hurts the working class won't affect the entire society including you. No working class = no tax base, no customers in restaurants, car dealerships etc. We can't all be wall street vampire barons at the same time. We'll have no one to suck the blood from."

Utter steaming dog poor. If there were any truth to your statement, it would hold as true with the global community as it would with a local community. Your position is one that intentionally degrades both my standard of living, and that of workers in the developing world. And I would much rather preserve my standard of living, while at the same time providing a means of survival for someone in the developing world, vice ensuring that an american high school dropout can afford the latest iteration of the iphone and drive an SUV.

"You seem to suggest that everyone has access to college...

Everyone does. you must be new.

that manual labor has no value...

It does have value. But since the vast majority of humans are fully qualified unskilled laborers, it's a highly competitive market.

"and that we can abandon manual labor and survive."

Someone has to shovel the snow out of my driveway. For a dollar an hour I'll pay someone to do it. At two dollars an hour, I'll do it myself.

"Labor actually creates value. You can't fuel a nation on business majors doing loan modifications."

Labor does create value. Progressives tend to suppport a position where workers are paid more than the value of the labor they contributed. If I can pay someone in Indonesia $5 an hour, but am forced to pay an american $25 an hour, I've paid too much.

"Stop watching conservative cartoons. This boogeyman is used to get you to support the plutocratic policies that hurt the poor."

Poverty is self chosen for the majority of people. And that's fine. Let them be poor. For the ones that don't want to be poor, the way ahead is not particulalry difficult.

"If you think you won't be affected by the diss appearance of jobs in this country, i have news for you, you already are, and it's going to get a lot worse as long as the plutocrats are in charge."

Statistics suggest otherwise. Right now, a college graduate makes roughly double what a high school graduate earns. In the mid 1970s, a degree might get you a 5%-10% premium on wages. We are a better country by not catering to the lowset common denominator.

"What kind of bait-and-switch are you trying to pull by mentioning doctors?
That's a profession whose supply is deliberately kept low, which stimulates demand, which in turn garners higher wages for doctors."

Than pick a profession. Accountant. Engineer. NBA Player. Actor. Musician. Airline Pilot. Auto mechanic.

Are these people going to be better or worse off with tariffs?

"It's only poor monetary policy for those in the bottom 80% of the economy.
The rewards going to the top 20% justify it, from the perspective of many of those in the top 20% (and many outside it)."

Rewards? Oh, you mean earned income.

Is there some reason to suggest that money would go to those that didn't play any part in earning it? Or that the rate at which wealth created is distributed should be anything other than proportional?

"my toyotas are made by americans in south carolina. my fathers ford is loaded with chinese parts and made by union workers who are the reason why i'd never by american. my toyotas cost less to buy, own and operate plus they have a better resell value than domestics. not to mention that toyotas are built better than any american equivalent."

The day that Japanese (or any other) auto makers break into the large SUV/truck market, I think the big three are doomed. Unless they could dump the unions and get their costs/quality under control. A 6.7L Diesel Tundra would probably trounce the competition.