Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, March 13, 2013

The Senate Judiciary Committee backed President Barack Obama's call to require criminal background checks for all gun buyers Tuesday on a party-line vote of 10-8, sending the measure to the full Senate. Federally registered firearm dealers are now required to run background checks on buyers. But about 40 percent of sales are made by private dealers who do not have such an obligation.

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"Republicans in the committee lined up against the bill, arguing that private gun sales between family members and friends should be exempted from background checks.

They also oppose a requirement that private sellers keep a paper record of firearm transactions, voicing fears that could lead to gun registration and eventually even confiscation."

Any lame excuses the NRA tells them to use, apparently.

#1 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 12:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

40% of firearms sales are done by non-FFL holders? If 40% of gun sales are done by unregulated sellers, how the f[eep] do they know the number is 40%?? And who are these "private dealers"? These are outright lies.

#2 | Posted by justanoversight at 2013-03-13 12:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

I agree, the 40% number is bogus. Odd how often it gets repeated. On another note, where does the federal government get the authority to regulate private commerce within a state?! States have made such decisions for years...

#3 | Posted by AKat at 2013-03-13 12:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

There is a simple and easy solution to this. Have as part of getting/renewing your drivers license/ID, a criminal background check to make sure you are not barred from owning firearms. This would then provide a quick check for purchasing any firearm/ammo from anyone/anywhere. Similar to a ccw as it is attached to your DL#/Tag#/Name which an LEO will know before he gets out of his car. No registrations of firearms, no ammo restrictions, just a regular check on license renewal that you are not a felon. Does this make sense or is it too simple?

#4 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-13 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

where does the federal government get the authority to regulate private commerce within a state?"

Easy, they just need enough people who are scared poopless of a inanimate object and happen to be control freaks . They will easily forget the constitution and abandon all reason as long as it satiates the delusion that it makes them safer. They will vote the people in who are dumb enough to believe it or cunning enough to use the lemmings to gain power and grant themselves whatever authority they wish. But we will all be magically safer and the government would never misuse authority right?

#5 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 12:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

#4

That would not be a bad idea, but i am sure there would be a lot of complaints that it brands felons. A little check next to the organ donor, although i hear that requiring ID is putting the poor at a disadvantage and stripping them of their rights. But who knows i am sure the control freaks would not mind that as long as they get their paranoid way.

#6 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 12:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

where does the federal government get the authority to regulate private commerce within a state?"

#5 | Posted by salamandagator

They don't have the authority. It's just like a million other things they don't have the authority for but they do anyhow.

#7 | Posted by Sniper at 2013-03-13 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

If 40% of gun sales are done by unregulated sellers, how the f[eep] do they know the number is 40%?? ....#2 | Posted by justanoversight

.......right .... it could be 60% .....
...
... a higher number would make more sense, considering how many guns wind up in the hands of convicted felons ......

#8 | Posted by skizziks at 2013-03-13 01:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

They will easily forget the constitution and abandon all reason as long as it satiates the delusion that it makes them safer.

#5 | Posted by salamandagator

Kinda like how the NRA forgets the part of the second amendment that says "in order to maintain a WELL REGULATED militia..."?

#9 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2013-03-13 01:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

Have as part of getting/renewing your drivers license/ID, a criminal background check to make sure you are not barred from owning firearms

THAT'll make things faster at the DMV....

#10 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2013-03-13 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

"considering how many guns wind up in the hands of convicted felons"

There are something like 350 million guns in this country, there are less the 6 million convicted felons. So if every felon owned a gun then that would be about 1.7 percent of the guns in this country. 1.7 percent if every one of them owned a gun, and you think background checks would solve that? OF those 1.2 percent come from bad dealers and over 50% come from straw purchases, we are down to under 1 percent of guns that would be subject to background checks that don't come from bad dealers or straw purchases. Take out the black market and what do you have? a fraction of 1 percent of the guns, does that sound like something that is worth the cost and hassle? Especially when you go for a more realistic number of felons that own guns, then you have a statistically non-existent number.

#11 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 01:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Kinda like how the NRA forgets the part of the second amendment that says "in order to maintain a WELL REGULATED militia..."?"

No closer to the people who forget how the English language works. Or the people who refuse to read what the writers wrote about the use of guns.

#12 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 01:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

"THAT'll make things faster at the DMV"

I don't think that would be much of an issue. The DOJ just puts out a list of people who can't have them in the same way that local governments supply that info if someone is not allowed to drive.

#13 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

#3 | Posted by AKat
On another note, where does the federal government get the authority to regulate private commerce within a state?! States have made such decisions for years...

Article I, Section 8, Clause 3. Known as the Commerce Clause, a/k/a the "Congress can do anything" clause. Cf., the "General Welfare" clause.

#14 | Posted by et_al at 2013-03-13 01:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

#9 | Posted by SpeakSoftly
Kinda like how the NRA forgets the part of the second amendment that says "in order to maintain a WELL REGULATED militia..."?

First, the prefatory clause neither expands nor limits the individual right to "keep and bear" arms. Second, the militia is well regulated. USC Title 10- Armed Forces, Subtitle A, Part I, Chapter 13.

Regulate.

#15 | Posted by et_al at 2013-03-13 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

It baffles me beyond belief that the US makes gun purchasing so difficult.Here in Canada all one has to do , is take a recognized gun safety/hunters safety course(4 hours),apply to the govt. for a PAL (possession and licencing) card,part of that process is a background check...one time only ,they also called my wife and 2 acquaintances to ask if I was violent or suicidal,then I got my card. Now,for me to go buy a gun or ammo all I have to do is present my card or give my card number for mail orders and bingo...got my stuff! No waiting...no screwing the pooch.The card is good for 5 years, then I simply reapply,pay 60 bux, and good to go for another 5.

#16 | Posted by ghoti at 2013-03-13 02:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

Kinda like how the NRA forgets the part of the second amendment that says "in order to maintain a WELL REGULATED militia..."?

#9 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

What does that mean ace? You translate for us or did you take it out of context?

#17 | Posted by Sniper at 2013-03-13 02:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lots of online gun purchasing sites. Simple to anonymously buy, ship to FFL person.

#18 | Posted by Greatamerican at 2013-03-13 02:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

What does that mean ace? You translate for us or did you take it out of context?

#17 | Posted by Sniper

Took it straight from the second amendment. You might not have heard it because the NRA would like you to ignore that part.

It means we are allowed to form a civilian militia and they should have access to guns. It says nothing about non-militia members having access to combat weapons.

#19 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2013-03-13 02:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Simple to anonymously buy, ship to FFL person."

Its not anonymous, ffl dealers are required to keep records for 20 years.

#20 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 02:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

It means we are allowed to form a civilian militia and they should have access to guns. It says nothing about non-militia members having access to combat weapons."

Funny how that would negate the actual way the English language works as well as countless court rulings.

#21 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 02:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

First, the prefatory clause neither expands nor limits the individual right to "keep and bear" arms. Second, the militia is well regulated. USC Title 10- Armed Forces, Subtitle A, Part I, Chapter 13.

#15 | Posted by et_al

Except the armed forces are a professional fighting force, not a militia. The second ammendment is about the access to guns for a WELL REGULATED civilian militia. Cousin billy bob is not in a militia and the founders didn't mean for him to buy all the assault rifles he wants so he can feel better about his genital size.

"A militia (pron.: /mɨˈlɪʃə/),[1] generally refers to an army or other fighting force that is composed of non-professional fighters; citizens of a nation or subjects of a state or government that can be called upon to enter a combat situation, as opposed to a professional force of regular soldiers"

#22 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2013-03-13 02:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Especially when you go for a more realistic number of felons that own guns, then you have a statistically non-existent number.
#11 | Posted by salamandagator

....if that were true, there would be no criminals carrying guns ....

#23 | Posted by skizziks at 2013-03-13 02:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

"if that were true, there would be no criminals carrying guns"

1.7 percent if EVERY convicted felon had a gun. The point is that the idea that background checks would solve anything is asinine when the issue is a fraction of a percent.

#24 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 02:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The second ammendment is about the access to guns for a WELL REGULATED civilian militia"

No, you are wrong. The courts say you are wrong, the language says you are wrong. Repeating the fallacy does not make it any less delusional.

#25 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 02:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

#16 | POSTED BY BEAVERSTRETCHER AT 2013-03-13 02:14 PM | REPLY

That would never be ratified here in America.

Problem with you is you're used to sensible Canadians.

Not knee jerking Americans.

#26 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-13 03:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Here's the important question: If I undergo the "rigorous vetting" that the Libyan rebels had to endure, so I get access to a machine gun and anti-tank weapons?

#27 | Posted by Ben_Berkkake at 2013-03-13 03:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

No, you are wrong. The courts say you are wrong, the language says you are wrong. Repeating the fallacy does not make it any less delusional.

#25 | Posted by salamandagator

You're so right. They wrote that part about the well-regulated militia just for fun... They just really enjoyed using those feather quill pens so they wanted to add new words with no weight or importance to the founding document of the nation.

#28 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2013-03-13 03:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

#22 | Posted by SpeakSoftly
Cousin billy bob is not in a militia...

Didn't follow the link to §311?

...the founders didn't mean for him to buy all the assault rifles...

Not familiar with what was required of militia?

"A militia (pron.: /mɨˈlɪʃə/),[1] generally...

"Generally" is the operative word in that definition. The specific context is the militia clause in the Second Amendment. That prefatory clause "does not limit or expand" the individual right to "keep and bear" arms.

#29 | Posted by et_al at 2013-03-13 03:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

#28

Look into the linguistics of the matter.

Or drop the politics of the matter and look at it without bias.

"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the preservation of a free society, the right of the people to read and compose books shall not be infringed."

What does that mean?
No one would question that as the right for people to read books, it is not legitimate to throw reason out just because you do not like guns.

#30 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 03:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're so right. They wrote that part about the well-regulated militia just for fun... They just really enjoyed using those feather quill pens so they wanted to add new words with no weight or importance to the founding document of the nation.

#28 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

That's precisely what liberals have been saying about Article 1, Section 8 and the 10th Ammendment.

The welfare clause gives congress limitless spending powers.

The commerce clause gives congress limitless regulatory powers.

Therefore, the 10th Ammendment is meaningless.

They were just joshing us with the all of the other text in Article 1, Section 8 which also means that the 10th was a joke as well.

#31 | Posted by JeffJ at 2013-03-13 03:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

#28 | Posted by SpeakSoftly
They wrote that part about the well-regulated militia just for fun... They just really enjoyed using those feather quill pens so they wanted to add new words with no weight or importance to the founding document of the nation.

They were short of ink that day. They left out "because" which would support your imaginary interpretation.

The Second Amendment is naturally divided into two parts: its prefatory clause and its operative clause. The former does not limit the latter grammatically, but rather announces a purpose. The Amendment could be re-phrased, "Because a well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." (emphasis added, citation omitted)

#32 | Posted by et_al at 2013-03-13 03:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

"A well-educated electorate being necessary to the preservation of a free society, the right of the people to read and compose books shall not be infringed."

What does that mean?

#30 | Posted by salamandagator

That would mean IF i'm in the electorate, THEN i can have books.

Just like IF i'm in a militia, THEN i can have guns.

#33 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2013-03-13 03:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

No, it does not. It's simple linguistics. I am probably not the best one to explain it if you do not have a certain level of understanding already but there is this awesome thing called Google which would be more then happy to point you to all the information you need. Or if you would rather you can look at the context provided by the statements of the founding fathers which, without doubt, demolish any idea that guns were to be restricted to the militia. Your choice.

#34 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 03:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Or if you would rather you can look at the context provided by the statements of the founding fathers which, without doubt, demolish any idea that guns were to be restricted to the militia. Your choice.
#34 | Posted by salamandagator

I'm the one looking at the context, you're the one saying that part isn't important.

#35 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2013-03-13 04:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I'm the one looking at the context, you're the one saying that part isn't important."

No, you are removing the context of the language it was written in to warp it to your definition. The context of language points out that the prefatory clause does not dictate the value of the operative clause. But the point was that the people who were responsible for it were completely in favor of personal gun ownership and to claim, erroneously, that the 2nd does not reflect this flies in the face of their stated direction and statements.

#36 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lets try another example.

A waitress asks "what would you like"?
You respond " steak sounds good, i'll have the t-bone"

Did you order a t-bone or did you only order it if it sounds good?

#37 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 04:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

#35 | Posted by SpeakSoftly
I'm the one looking at the context...

By referring to Google? What next Wikipedia?

Try the statutes and the Supreme Court both linked above.

It's simple linguistics.

Like that explained in an introductory paragraph from the SC quoted at #32?

#38 | Posted by et_al at 2013-03-13 04:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Like that explained in an introductory paragraph from the SC quoted at #32?"

Yes.

#39 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

No, you are removing the context of the language it was written in to warp it to your definition. The context of language points out that the prefatory clause does not dictate the value of the operative clause. But the point was that the people who were responsible for it were completely in favor of personal gun ownership and to claim, erroneously, that the 2nd does not reflect this flies in the face of their stated direction and statements.

#36 | Posted by salamandagator

The context it was written in was a fear of government. They were making sure that a CIVILIAN MILITIA could have arms in order to keep government from becoming tyrannical. Not that ALL civilians could have whatever arms they wanted.

#40 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2013-03-13 05:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

How is any of this going to prohibit a thief or criminal from obtaining a firearm?

I believe all criminals, at least with a felony conviction, clearly understand they are not suppose to have a firearm.

Here's an idea that will help curb death and violence attributed to firearms - Prosecute those whom brake the current 'gun laws'. Yes I realize the Muslims and "undocumented workers" will be given a free FFL and pass - but at least it will keep the majority of the bad guys behind bars.

#41 | Posted by SamSpade at 2013-03-13 05:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

#40 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

The information necessary to correct your apparent ignorance has been provided.

#42 | Posted by et_al at 2013-03-13 05:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

It means we are allowed to form a civilian militia and they should have access to guns. It says nothing about non-militia members having access to combat weapons.

#19 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

I ask, what is the milita?

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950])

"The right of the people to keep and bear...arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country..." (James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434 [June 8, 1789])

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms." (Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer (1788) at 169)

The words of the people that wrote it might mean something to some people. I doubt that it means anything to you.

#43 | Posted by Sniper at 2013-03-13 06:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

You're so right. They wrote that part about the well-regulated militia just for fun... They just really enjoyed using those feather quill pens so they wanted to add new words with no weight or importance to the founding document of the nation.

#28 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

The part about the milita is the reason for the words that follow that part.

Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

#44 | Posted by Sniper at 2013-03-13 06:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

That would mean IF i'm in the electorate, THEN i can have books.

Just like IF i'm in a militia, THEN i can have guns.

#33 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

Is the word IF realy there?

#45 | Posted by Sniper at 2013-03-13 06:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

The information necessary to correct your apparent ignorance has been provided.

#42 | Posted by et_al

But................ will he take advantage of it?

#46 | Posted by Sniper at 2013-03-13 06:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

I ask, what is the milita?

The words of the people that wrote it might mean something to some people. I doubt that it means anything to you.

#43 | Posted by Sniper

Youre right there. It's all about what is a "militia".

The founders The NRA says it's everyone. Grandma's in the militia. Your 8 year old is in the militia. Child rapists are in the militia.

Of course then there's those pesky words "well regulated".
You can't say everyone is in a well-regulated militia with a straight face, can you?

#47 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2013-03-13 06:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

"But................ will he take advantage of it?"

The information has always been there. But fear is a great motivator and forces the mind and eyes shut. He is free to think whatever he wants but it becomes our duty to make sure that there is no action taken that is based on fear rather then reality or reason.

#48 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 07:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"The founders The NRA says it's everyone. Grandma's in the militia. Your 8 year old is in the militia. Child rapists are in the militia."

You have a very active imagination.

#49 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-13 07:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

it becomes our duty to make sure that there is no action taken that is based on fear rather then reality or reason.

#48 | Posted by salamandagator

such a brave soldier you are.

completely blind to the ironic hipocracy in accusing others of fear, when gun nuts are the most fearful people in the country.

What other imaginary heroic adventures are you on at the moment?

#50 | Posted by SpeakSoftly at 2013-03-13 07:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

#4 Why do that when you can create a gov agency instead?

#51 | Posted by DavetheWave at 2013-03-13 07:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

"In South Africa – Gun Registration Has Led to Gun Confiscation in Two Short Years"

"Disarmament of a targeted group is one of the surest early warning signs of future genocidal killings."

www.thegatewaypundit.com

#53 | Posted by KBM at 2013-03-13 10:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

No closer to the people who forget how the English language works. Or the people who refuse to read what the writers wrote about the use of guns.

#12 | POSTED BY SALAMANDAGATOR AT 2013-03-13 01:42 PM | FLAG: THE FIRST 10 AMENDMENTS ARE THE BILL OF RIGHTS - RIGHTS OF THE PEOPLE, GET IT?

#54 | Posted by MSgt at 2013-03-13 10:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

" when gun nuts are the most fearful people in the country."

Again with the imagination, your mother must be so proud. Let me know when you are done with the windmills and actually want to try to incorporate some reason onto your opinion.

#55 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-14 11:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

""In South Africa – Gun Registration Has Led to Gun Confiscation in Two Short Years"

Then how did that guy murder his girlfriend a couple of weeks ago? I read he shot her several times. Did he throw the bullets at her?

#56 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-14 11:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

#56

He was not a poor farmer.

#57 | Posted by salamandagator at 2013-03-14 12:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Youre right there. It's all about what is a "militia".

The founders The NRA says it's everyone. Grandma's in the militia. Your 8 year old is in the militia. Child rapists are in the militia.

Of course then there's those pesky words "well regulated".
You can't say everyone is in a well-regulated militia with a straight face, can you?

#47 | Posted by SpeakSoftly

OK smart guy, what does "well regulated" mean?

If the milita was to protect us from the government, then the government can't regulate it.

#58 | Posted by Sniper at 2013-03-14 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Well regulated can me orderly. The KKK is technically a well-regulated militia...as are those freak groups in North Dakota...but those are negative examples, so let me try something more positive:

Neighborhood Watch is a well regulated milita technically. Guardian Angels are a well regulated milita. Thinking only in terms of a National Guard is as narrow of a thought as those who skip the term "well regulated militia."

#59 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-14 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#59 | Posted by kanrei
Well regulated can me orderly.

Yes but in the context of the time it meant to control by law or rule. See #15. The Militia Act regulated the militia after ratification of the Second Amendment. It is currently regulated by the statute linked at 15.

#60 | Posted by et_al at 2013-03-14 06:07 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You can't say everyone is in a well-regulated militia with a straight face, can you?"

Before a well regulated militia could be formed, the people must have arms. Which is why it is the right of "the people" to keep and bear arms.

The same people who have the right to freedom of speech, freedom of religion, right to a trial by jury, etc. Or is it just the people in the "well regulated militia" that have those rights?

"Well regulated can me orderly. The KKK is technically a well-regulated militia...as are those freak groups in North Dakota"

I live in North Dakota. I scared to ask whay sort of freak groups we have running around here...care to elaborate?

#61 | Posted by madbomber at 2013-03-14 10:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

I live in North Dakota. I scared to ask whay sort of freak groups we have running around here

You know, those ones with the weird singsong accents and Scandinavian surnames.

My sister in law is one. She is terrifying.

#62 | Posted by goatman at 2013-03-14 11:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

LOL... dat be funny!

#63 | Posted by REDIAL at 2013-03-14 11:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

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