Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Can poor people be trusted with guns? Overwhelmingly, Republicans thinks so. But while Democrats fight against taxes on the poor and oppose voter photo IDs because they impose too much of burden, they seem to be doing everything possible – from fees, expensive training requirements, and photo IDs -- to make it next to impossible for the poor to own guns.

Indeed, legislation in at least 17 states around the country is aimed specifically at making it more costly to own a gun. Democrats are voting in mass against exempting the poor from fees when it comes to guns. New Yorkers aren't alone facing everything from registration fees to buying liability insurance.

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That's too bad, because many law-abiding citizens, particularly minorities in crime-ridden neighborhoods really do need a gun for self-defense. There is little doubt that the people who are most likely to be victims of violent crime – again, overwhelmingly poor blacks in urban areas -- are also the ones who benefit the most from owning guns.

But Democrats seem to think that waiting for police to arrive from a 911 call is good enough for the poor.

Democrats want poor minorities votes, they just don't want them to be able to defend themselves. Apparently, Democrats believe that the right to self-defense is something that only belongs to the wealthy.

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Illinois Congressman makes bid to disarm the poor

Yesterday, United States Representative Luis Gutierrez (D-IL) introduced H.R. 965, "To prohibit the possession or transfer of junk guns, also known as Saturday Night Specials." The Hill quotes Rep. Gutierrez's justification for such a ban:

"I am concerned about the assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. But I am also concerned by the 'slow-moving massacre' that is occurring every day with handguns," Gutierrez, a member of the House Judiciary Committee, said Monday in Chicago while announcing his bill.

Even enthusiastic proponent of oppressive gun laws Robert Sherrill acknowledges that such bans are intended to disarm the poor, and thereby to disarm blacks:

www.examiner.com

#1 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-13 11:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

GUN CONTROL AND RACISM
George Mason University Civil Rights Law Journal

The history of gun control in America possesses an ugly component: discrimination and oppression of blacks, other racial and ethnic minorities, immigrants, and other "unwanted elements," including union organizers and agrarian reformers. Firearms laws were often enacted to disarm and facilitate repressive action against these groups.

Blacks, and especially poor blacks, are disproportionately the victims of crime. Yet, these citizens are often not afforded the same police protections that other more affluent and less crime ridden neighborhoods or communities enjoy. This lack of protection is especially so in the inner city urban ghettos. Firearms prohibitions discriminate against those poor and minority citizens who must rely on such arms to defend themselves from criminal activity to a much greater degree than affluent citizens living in safer and better protected communities.

www.saf.org

#2 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-13 11:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

In many cases, the police are not there to prevent crime, but to investigate crime and arrest people who commit them. There is no real "protect and serve" in law enforcement. They will not protect your family from being victims. The best they can do is promise to catch those who victimized them.

#3 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-13 11:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

Reminds me of the laws in the south which tried to keep blacks disarmed. Hard to keep somebody 'down' when they can shoot back. ;)

#4 | Posted by AKat at 2013-03-13 12:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lott is another rwing hack shill for the gun industry (see: NRA), this time playing the race card for his masters.

#5 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 12:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yes CORKY keep those guns away from the Democrats permanent underclass less they get off the Democratic plantation.

#6 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-13 12:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

Minorities vote their own best self-interest, which is why they vote Democrat.

Your thesis that they are too dumb to vote their own best self-interest, that they prefer "plantation" life, is in itself racist.

#7 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 12:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

#7 | POSTED BY CORKY

Democratic actions limiting the access to guns for protection for poor and minorities IS racism. Democrats efforts to make self defense more expensive is a regressive program to keep the upper class white liberal base safe from the underclass.

#8 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-13 12:58 PM | Reply | Flag:


Minorities vote their own best self-interest, which is why they vote Democrat.

Your thesis that they are too dumb to vote their own best self-interest, that they prefer "plantation" life, is in itself racist.

#7 | Posted by Corky

Well, then what really is the matter with Kansas?

#9 | Posted by JeffJ at 2013-03-13 12:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lott is another rwing hack shill for the gun industry (see: NRA), this time playing the race card for his masters.
#5 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2013-03-13 12:28 PM

Come on now corky, you can't deny the logical conclusions drawn in this article. Whether or not these fees and other hurdles are being put in place on purpose, is debatable, but the results can't be argued.

Dismissing the messenger because of his political beliefs, is foolish. You should judge his arguments on their own merits.

I believe we will see court cases in the future, based on the discrimination of these fees.

.

#10 | Posted by Roy_Batty at 2013-03-13 01:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

#8

Only Rwing NRA Echo Chamber World.

In the real world, it is an effort to make sure that guns used in crimes are traceable.

You know, the real world where in this country less people are buying more guns. The notion that poor minorities are up in arms (so to speak) about not being able to purchase guns is rwing racist fantasy and political hackery.

#11 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 01:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

-the logical conclusions drawn in this article.

If you mean the political spin put on the subject by a rwing hack, the author of "More Guns, Less Crime." His latest book is "At the Brink: Will Obama Push Us Over the Edge?"... then you would be correct, sir.

#12 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 01:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

#12 | Posted by Corky

It would be far more illustrative if you cited some of his logical arguments, dissected them and proved them to be fallacious.

Simply slaughtering the source isn't very persuasive.

#13 | Posted by JeffJ at 2013-03-13 01:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

He makes no logical arguments just rhetorical racist political hackery like...

"Democrats want poor minorities votes, they just don't want them to be able to defend themselves. Apparently, Democrats believe that the right to self-defense is something that only belongs to the wealthy."

I mean, you take that kind of asininity seriously?

#14 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 01:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

I mean, you take that kind of asininity seriously?
#14 | POSTED BY CORKY

Sorry but the proof is around you on this one. Democrats are disenfranchising minorities and the poor by making self defense more expensive or unavailable.

District of Columbia v. Heller was nothing more than discrimination against minorities and the poor.

#15 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-13 01:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

Gun control works well in the Chicago area. NOT

#16 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-13 01:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

-Democrats are disenfranchising minorities and the poor by making self defense more expensive or unavailable.

Some of the most obtuse rwing spin on record, and that is saying a lot.

You cannot disenfranchise people from something they are not out seeking; ie more guns, and just because the side-effect of a policy to make said guns less available to criminals is to increase their price does not mean that the policy is aimed at a certain group.

And the idea that people with guns are safer in the first place is not even a proven point, it is merely more rwing myth.

"Homes with guns are a dozen times more likely to have household members or guests killed or injured by the weapon than by an intruder."

"Possessing a gun makes you less safe not more safe"

www.examiner.com

So, to sum up, the thread article by a rwing racebaiter is partisan political spin based on myth.

#17 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 01:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

#16 | POSTED BY SAMES1

True and my point would be that Democrats OWN the Chicago area and they are acting in a racist manor by depriving their own citizens the right of self protection while Rahm Emanuel and his family enjoys the safety of armed guards.

Someone tell Rahm Emanuel his children are protected by armed guard at school
Rahm's statement:
It's outrageous and unsettling that the NRA would choose to address gun violence not by taking assault weapons off our streets, but by adding more guns to our schools… That is not the right answer for our society, our schools and most importantly our children.

Yet, a report from Second City Cop, further investigated by Rebel Pundit, reveals that the University of Chicago Lab School, the elite private school where Mayor Emanuel sends his children, has its own armed guard. Not only that, Second City Cop reports that Mayor Emanuel's children have an armed escort to and from school.

legalinsurrection.com

#18 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-13 01:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

#17 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2013-03-13 01:27 PM | FLAG: I got nothing so I attack the source.

#19 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-13 01:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, artificially making the cost of personal protection more expensive in no way disenfranchises the poor minorities but requiring all citizens to produce picture ID when voting is horrific disenfranchisement of poor minorities?

#20 | Posted by JeffJ at 2013-03-13 01:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

#19 Read the article.

www.examiner.com

A case could be made, were one wanting to follow the road of the "logic" argued by Lott.... that Dems are protecting poor minority families from becoming victims of gun violence inherent in owning guns.

If one wanted to use the facts of gun ownership rather than than the NRA myth.

#21 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 01:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

-produce picture ID when voting

Is yet another example of a rwing solution to mythical problem.

Sort of like you are safer with a gun in the home.

#22 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

#20 | POSTED BY JEFFJ

Careful Jeff logic like that could make liberals heads explode.

#23 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-13 01:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

#22 | POSTED BY CORKY

The evidence is all around us CORKY. Access to firearms yields safer neighborhoods. When you use clean data and remove self inflicted injuries like suicide and hunting accidents the evidence is overwhelming.

#24 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-13 01:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

#23 Retort-less.

"Homes with guns are a dozen times more likely to have household members or guests killed or injured by the weapon than by an intruder.The odds are much greater that the gun will be used against you or a loved one than that it will be used against an armed assailant or an intruder. Firearms are more often discharged in a homicide, suicide or an accident, than in self-defense."

"Eighty percent of homicides in the United States are committed by a family member, a friend or an acquaintance of the victim. Female murder victims are more likely to be murdered in the home than male victims and most female victims are killed by a spouse, an unmarried intimate partner, or a close relative. Lethal domestic assaults are nearly three times more likely in a household where a gun is present, and studies have shown no significant protective effect for having a gun in the home.

Male victims are more likely than females to be shot outside the home. While many men may carry guns for personal protection, a University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine study found that people who possess a gun are about 450 percent more likely to be shot in an aggravated assault or firearms homicide than individuals who do not possess a gun."

Dems.... protecting poor minorities from gun violence.

#25 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

-use clean data and remove self inflicted injuries like suicide and hunting accidents the evidence is overwhelming.

"In this country gun violence is a daily occurrence. Eighty-five Americans are shot and killed on an average day.

Sixty-two percent of those who are killed are the victims of self-inflicted wounds from committing suicide.

Most adolescent suicides are committed by youths at home who used the family gun obtained from home. States with weaker gun laws and higher rates of household gun ownership have higher rates of gun suicide and higher overall suicide rates.

Although many gun control opponents have argued against counting suicides by firearms as gun-related deaths, because the suicide victim can substitute another form of suicide, Harvard researchers have found that fatality rates for suicide attempts with a gun are over ninety percent while rates for cutting, piercing, and drug overdoses (the other most common methods used to attempt suicide) are under five percent."

#26 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 01:51 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dems.... protecting poor minorities from gun violence.
#25 | POSTED BY CORKY

Dems.... disarming their permanent underclass.

#27 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-13 01:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

-their permanent underclass.

So, poor minorities are too stupid to ever be anything other than that?

Really, really racist.

One wonders if that comes from defending racist articles or... which came first? The article or the racism?

#28 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 01:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

So we now can expect a kitchen knife ban, cause once the guns are remove the suicides will be done by kitchen knife and according to corky these authoritarian liberals will ban the knife for their protection.

#29 | Posted by moneywar at 2013-03-13 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

Dems.... protecting poor minorities from gun violence.

Like all their endeavours, they are doing a piss poor job.

#31 | Posted by goatman at 2013-03-13 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:


-produce picture ID when voting

Is yet another example of a rwing solution to mythical problem.

Sort of like you are safer with a gun in the home.

#22 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 01:39 PM

Oh yeah, I forgot, voter fraud is only a problem when a Republican wins an election. 2004...Ohio...Diebold...anyone
?...Bueller?


#29 You haven't made a lucid post since the Bush administration.

#30 | Posted by Corky

Sure he has. He used to constantly rip the Bush administration and you enjoyed it when he did. But now he employs the same level of scrutiny and criticism toward the Obama administration and you no longer enjoy it.

#32 | Posted by JeffJ at 2013-03-13 02:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

#32 C'mon, Jeff. It's like someone gave a keyboard to a wino.

In-person voter fraud is a solution looking for a problem.

#33 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-13 02:12 PM | Reply | Flag:

#28 | POSTED BY CORKY

Maybe in lieu of guns the Democrats can pass out car antenna's for protection. I read on the DR that they are effective deterrents to crime.

#34 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-13 02:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

In-person voter fraud is a solution looking for a problem.

#33 | Posted by Corky

That may be true, but it has nothing to do with the point I was making.

I was pointing out the double-standard between disenfranchisement claims. All of the cries of disenfranchisement over picture ID to vote would be applicable to arbitrarily increasing the cost of personal protection firearms.

#35 | Posted by JeffJ at 2013-03-13 02:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Homes with guns are a dozen times more likely to have household members or guests killed or injured by the weapon than by an intruder.The odds are much greater that the gun will be used against you or a loved one than that it will be used against an armed assailant or an intruder. Firearms are more often discharged in a homicide, suicide or an accident, than in self-defense."
"Eighty percent of homicides in the United States are committed by a family member, a friend or an acquaintance of the victim. Female murder victims are more likely to be murdered in the home than male victims and most female victims are killed by a spouse, an unmarried intimate partner, or a close relative. Lethal domestic assaults are nearly three times more likely in a household where a gun is present, and studies have shown no significant protective effect for having a gun in the home.
Male victims are more likely than females to be shot outside the home. While many men may carry guns for personal protection, a University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine study found that people who possess a gun are about 450 percent more likely to be shot in an aggravated assault or firearms homicide than individuals who do not possess a gun."
Dems.... protecting poor minorities from gun violence.

#25 | POSTED BY CORKY AT 2013-03-13 01:49 PM


This may, or may not be true, but it's not up to you to decide how much risk anyone takes on.

You say poor families don't want weapons, but you don't site any studies saying that, and since gun sales are vat an all time high right now, it's fair to say an equal number of poor people would want to buy weapons too.

Corky, when it comes to politics you and I come from similar viewpoints, but on this issue, I have to say your arguments are lacking logical foundations.

.

#36 | Posted by Roy_Batty at 2013-03-13 03:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

When gun bans really DO work:

"Police Release Shocking Footage of Drive-By Attack That Saw Up to 11 Shot in DC This Morning
Mar. 11, 2013"
www.theblaze.com

OOps, it's 13 now.

#37 | Posted by KBM at 2013-03-13 08:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Like this is going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals.

It's about as smart as raising taxes on crack.

#38 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2013-03-13 10:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

Foxnews is the source?

Why not just quote newsmax while you're at it?

#39 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-13 10:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Can poor people be trusted with guns?

They already have them. What you think they will register them and pay a fee to do so? Hey can I use my EBT card to register my gun?

Think of all the money Detroit and Chicago could rake in! Hey can illegals register them too?

#40 | Posted by Federalist at 2013-03-13 11:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Foxnews is the source?
Why not just quote newsmax while you're at it?

#39 | POSTED BY TOR AT 2013-03-13 10:54 PM


Your doing the same thing that corky did earlier, you're dismissing the article based on the messenger.

The fact is, poor people are more likely to be kept from owning firearms due to these fees and other hurdles, that make ownership too expensive.

These fees don't keep middle and upper class people from obtaining guns.

.

#41 | Posted by Roy_Batty at 2013-03-13 11:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

The "messenger" has proven it's self to be a liar of the worst sort.

It no more deserves our trust than a serial killer.

#42 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-13 11:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

#41 | POSTED BY ROY_BATTY

What world do you live in?

"The fact is, poor people are more likely to be kept from owning firearms due to these fees and other hurdles"

Badges? We don't need no stinkin badges.

#43 | Posted by Federalist at 2013-03-13 11:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

Wait a second....

"photo IDs"?

Do we have a group of people in the Republican party who claim to both love the idea of demanding a photo ID before anyone can vote AND deplore the idea of demanding a photo ID before someone can buy a firearm?

#44 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-13 11:59 PM | Reply | Flag:

#41 | POSTED BY ROY_BATTY
What world do you live in?
"The fact is, poor people are more likely to be kept from owning firearms due to these fees and other hurdles"
Badges? We don't need no stinkin badges.

#43 | POSTED BY FEDERALIST AT 2013-03-13 11:35 PM


I have no idea what you're trying to say with this post. Perhaps you can expand on it with a thought out, cogent argument.

.

#45 | Posted by Roy_Batty at 2013-03-14 06:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

The fact is, poor people are more likely to be kept from owning firearms due to these fees and other hurdles, that make ownership too expensive.
These fees don't keep middle and upper class people from obtaining guns.
#41 | POSTED BY ROY_BATTY
Good point.

That is discrimination where I come from. You could easily make the point that the poor are being disenfranchised? I pick that term for a reason. The right to right to bear arms is covered directly in the Bill of Rights but the right to vote is not directly covered. I wonder how a poll tax would be accepted these days? Disenfranchisement you say, what the difference in making the right to bear arms too expensive to be enjoyed by the poor and making the, not guaranteed, right to vote too expensive to be exercised by the poor?

#46 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-14 07:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

Odd also that the anti gun left operates on the theory that to exercise the 2nd amendment you need to not only supply a lot of money but also a massive about of personal data and ID's but to exercise the, not guaranteed, right to vote no money or ID must be involved. The anti gun left is also willing to accept a number of ways that the 2nd amendment rights can be removed with out due process of law and by unelected bureaucrat but the right to vote is sacrosanct?

#47 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-14 08:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

"You could easily make the point that the poor are being disenfranchised?"

Paneonut considers guns the equivalent now of voting rights? Hilarious.

#48 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-14 08:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

The founding fathers thought to include one in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution and not the non nonexistent right to vote, which is determined by the rule of law.

#49 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-14 08:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

Low information voters obviously shouldn't own guns; but then again they shouldn't be allowed to vote either since they would only vote for the biggest con and the one promising them the most goodies.

#50 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-14 08:09 AM | Reply | Flag:

If these gun ban schemes are adopted throughout the United States, it's gonna put SAMCRO out of business.
[snark]

#51 | Posted by libertarian_gi at 2013-03-14 08:57 AM | Reply | Flag:

Why does Matsop want to disenfranchise the Tea Party? I don't agree with them but I would never take away their right to vote.

#52 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-14 09:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

"The Fifteenth states that "[t]he right of citizens of the United States to vote" can't be abridged by race; the Nineteenth says that the same right can't be abridged by sex; the Twenty-Fourth says that "the right of citizens of the United States to vote" in federal elections can't be blocked by a poll tax; and the Twenty-Sixth protects "[t]he right of citizens of the United States, who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote."

www.theatlantic.com

#53 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-14 09:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

#53 | Posted by danni

Danni's point is valid.
The Constitution can be amended and would be necessary in this case.

#54 | Posted by libertarian_gi at 2013-03-14 09:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

That is discrimination where I come from. You could easily make the point that the poor are being disenfranchised? I pick that term for a reason. The right to right to bear arms is covered directly in the Bill of Rights but the right to vote is not directly covered. I wonder how a poll tax would be accepted these days? Disenfranchisement you say, what the difference in making the right to bear arms too expensive to be enjoyed by the poor and making the, not guaranteed, right to vote too expensive to be exercised by the poor?

#46 | POSTED BY PANEOCON AT 2013-03-14 07:52 AM


That's the argument I expect to hear some lawyer make. Illinois has the requirement of getting a FOID (Firearms Owners ID) card before you are even allowed to touch a gun.

If you don't have one, you can't legally handle a gun, even in a gun store.

The FOID costs $10.00 dollars, and takes 3 to 4 months to get.

None of our other Rights requires what is essentially a license.

.

#55 | Posted by Roy_Batty at 2013-03-14 09:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Would you allow freedom of speech only to those who paid for a license?

How about free practice of religion?

Public trial only to those who can afford to rent the court room?

#56 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-14 09:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

#55 | POSTED BY ROY_BATTY

The only real difference here is that the Illinois law requiring getting a FOID is state law and the right to bear arms is federal law. States can do as they please as Colorado and NY is now proving.

#57 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-14 10:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

States can do as they please as Colorado and NY is now proving.

Actually, they can't as Chicago and Washington DC proved. The 10th allows states to do as they please so long as they don't block any right given by the Feds.

#58 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-14 10:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

Actually, they can't as Chicago and Washington DC proved.
#58 | POSTED BY KANREI

Good point, I should have added with in the law and the constitution.

The 10th allows states to do as they please so long as they don't block any right given by the Feds.
#58 | POSTED BY KANREI

Important clarification: any right given to the Feds.

#59 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-14 11:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

Important clarification: any right given to the Feds

No, I said what I mean. Any right given by the Feds to the people cannot be blocked by the state.

#60 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-14 11:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Odd also that the anti gun left operates on the theory that to exercise the 2nd amendment you need to not only supply a lot of money but also a massive about of personal data and ID's but to exercise the, not guaranteed, right to vote no money or ID must be involved. The anti gun left is also willing to accept a number of ways that the 2nd amendment rights can be removed with out due process of law and by unelected bureaucrat but the right to vote is sacrosanct?

#47 | POSTED BY PANEOCON

It would seem a good test to see if you can vote, is to see if you are registered with OBamacare.......properly
www.washingtonpost.com

#61 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2013-03-14 11:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

#60 | POSTED BY KANREI

Then I'm missing your point.

The 10th allows states to do as they please so long as they don't block any right given by the Feds.
#58 | POSTED BY KANREI

Tenth Amendment - U.S. Constitution
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

#62 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-14 11:31 AM | Reply | Flag:

Then I'm missing your point.


The 13 Amendment I believe it is says no state can deny any citizen any right protected by the US Constiution.

I am speaking of the people's FEDERAL right to own guns trumps any and all state laws in that regard. The COurts (so far) have agreed with me.

#63 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-14 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

#61 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS
Your information is private.
•We'll keep your information private as required by law.

#64 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-14 11:35 AM | Reply | Flag:

Sorry...I mean 14th Amendment.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This means the state cannot change the 2nd Amendment.

#65 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-14 11:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

The 13 Amendment
#63 | POSTED BY KANREI

I hope not :-)

Thirteenth Amendment - U.S. Constitution
Thirteenth Amendment - Slavery And Involuntary Servitude
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.
constitution.findlaw.com

#66 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-14 11:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

#66 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-14 11:38 AM

see #65 =P

#67 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-14 11:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

This means the state cannot change the 2nd Amendment.
#65 | POSTED BY KANREI

I'm not reading it that way but I understand your point

constitution.findlaw.com

Annotation 3 - Fourteenth Amendment

Although many years after ratification the Court ventured the not very informative observation that the Fourteenth Amendment ''operates to extend . . . the same protection against arbitrary state legislation, affecting life, liberty and property, as is offered by the Fifth Amendment,'' 34 and that ''ordinarily if an act of Congress is valid under the Fifth Amendment it would be hard to say that a state law in like terms was void under the Fourteenth,'' 35 the significance of the due process clause as a restraint on state action appears to have been grossly underestimated by litigants no less than by the Court in the years immediately following its adoption. From the outset of our constitutional history due process of law as it occurs in the Fifth Amendment had been recognized as a restraint upon government, but, with the conspicuous exception of the Dred Scott decision, 36 only in the narrower sense that a legislature must provide ''due process for the enforcement of law.''

What induced the Court to dismiss its fears of upsetting the balance in the distribution of powers under the federal system and to enlarge its own supervisory powers over state legislation was the increasing number of cases seeking protection of property rights against the remedial social legislation States were enacting in the wake of industrial expansion. At the same time, the added emphasis on the due process clause afforded the Court an opportunity to compensate for its earlier virtual nullification of the privileges and immunities clause of the Amendment.

constitution.findlaw.com

#68 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-14 11:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

Interesting read Pane. This seems to also support your interpretation:

''It is settled [however] that neither the 'contract' clause nor the 'due process' clause had the effect of overriding the power of the state to establish all regulations that are reasonably necessary to secure the health, safety, good order, comfort, or general welfare of the community; that this power can neither be abdicated nor bargained away, and is inalienable even by express grant; and that all contract and property [or other vested] rights are held subject to its fair exercise.''

#69 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-14 11:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

Bummer for the libtards when their stupid justifications come back to bite them in the arse.

#70 | Posted by justanoversight at 2013-03-14 11:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

#69 | POSTED BY KANREI

If we know one thing about this administration, it is that they are not restrained by little things like the Constitution, Congress, Common law or the Supreme Court.

Court rules against Obama's recess appointments to labor board
firstread.nbcnews.com

Last I knew all three recess appointments were still on the board?

#71 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-14 12:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Meh, guns are really cheap in the ghetto. They don't pay gun store prices. They pay car trunk prices.

#72 | Posted by sitzkrieg at 2013-03-14 04:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Poor people should not vote if they are too stupid to own guns.

#73 | Posted by agape at 2013-03-14 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Discriminatory History of Gun Control

Gun control in the United States is based on a long history of discrimination which continues to this day. While blacks were the first targets of gun control measures, different racial and ethnic minorities have been targeted over time, and today the poor now face economic
discrimination in many gun control laws.

The Gun Control act of 1968 was another major shift in firearm restrictions. The supposed aim of this bill was a reduction in crime, but an underlying motive was to keep black militant groups from arming themselves with readily available and inexpensive weapons.

On the surface this seems like a reasonable way to keep guns out of
crime prone areas. In reality, it ensures that criminals will be the only people with firearms. People who obey the law, but need housing assistance, will have no means to protect themselves.

The gun laws in Washington D.C. were some of the strictest in the nation. In 1976 the city completely prohibited the ownership of handguns, but saw no meaningful or lasting reduction in gun crime

This graph shows that, after an initial decline, the percentage of homicides committed in Washington DC with a gun skyrocketed above the national average in the 1980's after the implementation of a handgun ban. Clearly the availability of guns in the city did not stop people
from committing homicides with guns

The most influential work from the medical field may be "Gun Ownership as a Risk Factor for Homicide in the Home". This study was led by Arthur Kellermann in 1993 and claimed that the presence of a firearm in the home made it 2.7 times more likely that someone in that household would be murdered by a firearm.74 This journal article became one of the most widely cited works dealing with homicide and guns.75 Its conclusion and methods, however, are problematic and misleading. The basis of the study was a comparison of sample households where homicides occurred to a control sample of supposedly similar households. From this comparison the study determined that households with guns were more likely to experience homicides. The first problem with this conclusion is that people who are at higher risk for being murdered could be more likely to own guns. The presence of the gun does not necessarily change this risk factor. It is very likely that victim's high risk lifestyle puts them at higher risk for murder, not the ownership of firearms.76 Nearly all of the homicides in this study were committed with a gun brought by the intruder, not the gun in the home.77 This indicates the gun is most likely a measure of risk, not a cause of it. The victims were also selected from very high risk households. This, coupled with a limited number of cases, makes a nationwide application of the potential risk factor questionable.78 Finally, the statistics themselves are disputed by Gary Kleck in "Can Owning a Gun Really Triple the Owner's Chances of being Murdered?"

Many attempts to control guns result in a disproportionate burden on the poorest and most vulnerable people in our society with no proven benefit to the surrounding community

digitalcommons.uri.edu

#74 | Posted by paneocon at 2013-03-15 08:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

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