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Wednesday, March 13, 2013

Neanderthals' keen vision may explain why they couldn't cope with environmental change and died out, despite having the same sized brains as modern humans, new research suggests.

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The findings, published...in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B, suggest that Neanderthals developed massive visual regions in their brains to compensate for Europe's low light levels. That, however, reduced the brain space available for social cognition.

"We have a social brain, whereas Neanderthals appear to have a visual brain," said Clive Gamble, an archaeologist at the University of Southampton, who was not involved in the study.

As a result, the extinct hominids had smaller social and trading networks to rely on when conditions got tough. That may have caused Neanderthals to die off around 35,000 years ago.

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From the article:

By calculating how much brain space was needed for other tasks, the team concluded that Neanderthals had relatively less space for the frontal lobe, a brain region that controls social thinking and cultural transmission.

The findings explain why Neanderthals didn't ornament themselves or make art....

These results may also help explain the Neanderthals' extinction....

Smaller social brain regions meant smaller social networks. In fact, artifacts from Neanderthal sites suggest they had just a 30-mile (48.3 kilometers) trading radius, while human trade networks at the time could span 200 miles (321.9 km), Dunbar said.

With competition from humans, a bitter ice age and tiny trading networks, the Neanderthals probably couldn't access resources from better climates, which they needed in order survive....

#1 | Posted by Doc_Sarvis at 2013-03-13 09:07 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Who says they died out?"

-Republican Party

#2 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2013-03-13 10:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

'Our distant relatives'

-Democrat Party

#3 | Posted by KBM at 2013-03-13 10:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Climate Change May Have Doomed Neanderthals"

"When climate took a turn toward the cold tens of thousands of years ago, both Neanderthals and early humans started traveling further distances to find food, found a new study."

news.discovery.com

#4 | Posted by KBM at 2013-03-13 10:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Climate Change May Have Doomed Neanderthals"

Interesting article

- As they moved more, the two groups mingled more and their interbreeding may have led to Neanderthal extinction.
"If we can't get them out, we'll breed them out."

Edward I on the Scots

#5 | Posted by goatman at 2013-03-13 11:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

Except they did have art, news.nationalgeographic.com not to mention were found with the makings of make up and jewelry. www.npr.org

I don't know if this is just really bad science or what it is. Also, at least in modern humans, brain processing of vision is not a straight forward process - the optic nerve not only wires to the occipital, but various other parts of the brain, involving social recognition, emotion, and other such things, as cases of blind sight highlight.

For all we know, this simply gave neanderthals a greater appreciation of the visual arts than our species :P. Mostly kidding - odds are, they did think differently than we do - but I doubt nearly so brutish as this article would make them out to.

#6 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2013-03-13 12:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Yeah, that and ethnic cleansing.

#7 | Posted by shirtsbyeric at 2013-03-13 12:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

I recall reading a theory that Neanderthals are a primary genetic ancestor of the Basques, who not only share some of the physical traits, but also have the highest percentage of O- blood in the world, which is apparently a marker (apparently, both O and RH- were prevalent in Neanderthals).

#8 | Posted by MUSTANG at 2013-03-13 02:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

The findings explain why Neanderthals didn't ornament themselves or make art....
#1 | POSTED BY DOC_SARVIS

These findings might hold more weight if they did not contain easily dismissed 'facts' as utter BS.

www.csmonitor.com

Further, they also made art objects using painted shells, etc. So, this 'scientist' is already proven to be a dud.

Second, the brains were not 'equal to modern humans' - they are larger than the average brain of the modern human. AMH were a step down in brain size - unprecedented in hominid evolutionary development.

Third, Neanderthals live on in modern whites with 5% of DNA ad mix coming from Neanderthals. East Asians have roughly 5% Neanderthal and 1-5% Denisovian. They interbred with AMH - not replaced by them.

I find it amazing that such misinformation is still published on the web - Neanderthals were not some grunting brutes - they possessed the same language gene as modern humans. What they did lack was high population density.

#9 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-13 02:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

The findings explain why Neanderthals didn't ornament themselves or make art....
#1 | POSTED BY DOC_SARVIS
These findings might hold more weight if they did not contain easily dismissed 'facts' as utter BS.
www.csmonitor.com
Further, they also made art objects using painted shells, etc. So, this 'scientist' is already proven to be a dud.
Second, the brains were not 'equal to modern humans' - they are larger than the average brain of the modern human. AMH were a step down in brain size - unprecedented in hominid evolutionary development.
Third, Neanderthals live on in modern whites with 5% of DNA ad mix coming from Neanderthals. East Asians have roughly 5% Neanderthal and 1-5% Denisovian. They interbred with AMH - not replaced by them.
I find it amazing that such misinformation is still published on the web - Neanderthals were not some grunting brutes - they possessed the same language gene as modern humans. What they did lack was high population density.
#9 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-13 02:37 PM

Thank you! These people had monetary exchange, adornments, ritual burial, etc.

The reason for a species die-off might have more to do with immunology and resource acquisition than genocidal aggressors. What I've cursorily read implies they are a wealth of carnivore-exclusive hominid genealogy. How short of a period were they in locations where they could not adapt to eating the plants? Isn't that the exact opposite human diet evolutionarily?

#10 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2013-03-13 04:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

The reason for a species die-off might have more to do with immunology and resource acquisition than genocidal aggressors.
#10 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBOT

One of the biggest issues I have with modern science and publishing of research is that the scientists are only rewarded for publishes theories - which the mainstream media puts forth as the undisputed truth rather than simply a theory. There is no reward for someone to simply publish - "We discovered this amazing attribute about XYZ and we don't know what the hell it means". In my opinion, it is a misuse of the scientific method as very often these theories become 'facts' without any real scrutiny and alternative views are rejected because they do not fit the 'mainstream' theory. It is wrong, but it happens all the time.

I would place Relativity into this bucket. The original theory was proposed with Einstein though the extent of the known universe was the Milky Way Galaxy. Once we knew that we were only a small fraction of that (meaning visible matter density was too small for the theory to work), the Relativists started to just make stuff up. Not enough matter - how about a Black Hole? Still not enough matter - how about Dark Matter? Pulsars defy the redshift Hubble Constant - no problem, we just make up more fantasy attributes. Forget the fact that none of these things has any provable data behind them. Yet, this theory (with ridiculous band aides) is seen as a 'fact' by the mainstream media which makes any alternative theory laughed out of the room and not receive any funding. It is a sad state of affairs and a huge waste of money and intellectual capability. Sort of like majoring in Flat Earth Geography in Europe circa 1491.

#11 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-13 04:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Neanderthals developed massive visual regions in their brains to compensate for Europe's low light levels. That, however, reduced the brain space available for social cognition."

I cease to wonder about video game arcades now.

#12 | Posted by Diablo at 2013-03-13 06:45 PM | Reply | Flag:

Heh. Jacque_Strap considers relativity to be bunk. Do you even know the equations? If you did, you would realize how universal they are.

Or is that just "Jewish science" to your little Nazi brain?

#13 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2013-03-14 12:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

Heh. Jacque_Strap considers relativity to be bunk.
Or is that just "Jewish science" to your little Nazi brain?

#13 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

I am pretty sure that if I called someone a Nazi, I would find myself back in exile pretty quick...gotta love double standards.

As to your moronic insinuation - I was not the one that needed to invent dark matter, black holes, etc to make my theory valid. Neither did I have to change my theory to match the recorded temperature of the CBR when the original theory was off by a factor of 10. Further, I do not need to assign magical properties to pulsars to compensate for the fact that their radiation emissions can not by explained by the theory of relativity without assuming a spin so high that they would tear themselves apart. I did not need to manufacturer any of these fantasies. Some people just say God made the whole universe and settle with that - that actually seems more reasonable than relativity once you strip away the magic sky fairies required to make the theory hang together.

Lastly, relativity was actually a discovery of Lorentz (does not change the fact that it was wrong). E=MC^2 was the discovery of an Italian way before Einstein as well - does not change the fact that it is worthless.

#14 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 02:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

But you are a Nazi, Jacjue. Or at least, a Holocaust denier, which in my mind makes you a Nazi.

My grandfather died on Normandy beach*, and I read two biographies of soldiers in WW2 and one describes the death camps in detail after he was captured. Also, Eisenhower, Patton, and Montgomery described them.

In, short, your Nazi **** really pisses me off, and I hope you die.

*His wife found him there with a French woman.

#15 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2013-03-14 03:46 AM | Reply | Flag:

But you are a Nazi, Jacjue. Or at least, a Holocaust denier, which in my mind makes you a Nazi.

Your mind is warped.

My grandfather died on Normandy beach*, and I read two biographies of soldiers in WW2 and one describes the death camps in detail after he was captured.

Just so that everyone is perfectly clear - the Nazi death camps per US Holocaust Memorial Museum (www.ushmm.org) WERE ALL IN POLAND. So, unless your autobiography refers to the POW being taken to Poland - which I highly doubt - then he did not describe a death camp.

"To facilitate the "Final Solution" (the genocide or mass destruction of the Jews), the Nazis established killing centers in Poland, the country with the largest Jewish population. The killing centers were designed for efficient mass murder. Chelmno, the first killing center, opened in December 1941. Jews and Roma were gassed in mobile gas vans there. In 1942, the Nazis opened the Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka killing centers to systematically murder the Jews of the Generalgouvernement (the territory in the interior of occupied Poland)."

Also, Eisenhower, Patton, and Montgomery described them.
#15 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

As I already posted - 100% of the death camps WERE IN POLAND - not a single one of these camps was liberated by the Western Allies - ALL WERE LIBERATED BY THE RUSSIANS. So, it is physically impossible for Eisenhower, Patton, or Montgomery to describe a death camp as not a single one of them stepped foot in Poland. Further, I would like you to provide a single link to Eisenhower's memoirs were he mentions the existence of a gas chamber. I do not deny that Jews suffered through German persecution during world war II nor do I deny that a great number of Jews died - so I do not consider myself a denier of anything. Do I believe 100% of the mainstream story on WWII? Of course not - and no one else should either. As the number of dead plaque at Auschwitz was changed from 6M dead to 1M dead, the stories of human soap were debunked, and historians now admit that no camps within Germany gassed anyone - we are learning that the history we believed to be infallible was in part war propaganda. This country used to welcome debate...the decline in the country began when the liberal PC crowd starting silencing any serious debate by throwing around terms like 'holocaust denier', nazi, racist, etc. I consider that the weakest form of debate - one step below you spouting off on topics you obviously never researched. Facts are not racist.

#16 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 04:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

Um, Patton describes a death camp in Germany, not Poland, in his diaries.

#17 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2013-03-14 04:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

I hope you die.
#15 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

I should add that I do not hope you die - I don't wish that on anyone. If you ever are interested in a serious debate on this topic, we can do that. However, it is clear that you are more interested in name calling and outright lying than discussion of any topic but my offer stands if you ever change your mind. I think that you will find the mainstream account is incorrect in many aspects but that the general story of the holocaust is correct.

#18 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 04:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

Um, Patton describes a death camp in Germany, not Poland, in his diaries.

#17 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

Please give me the name of the camp in Germany that had gas chambers. I am sure the USHMM would be very interested in learning about this too as their vast team of researchers have concluded that 100% of the gassings occurred within Poland - a country Patton never stepped foot into during the war.

#19 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 04:18 AM | Reply | Flag:

Generals George Patton, Omar Bradley, and Dwight Eisenhower arrived in Ohrdruf on April 12, the day of President Franklin D. Roosevelt's death. They found 3,200 naked, emaciated bodies in shallow graves. Eisenhower found a shed piled to the ceiling with bodies, various torture devices, and a butcher's block for smashing gold fillings from the mouths of the dead. Patton became physically ill. Eisenhower turned white at the scene inside the gates, but insisted on seeing the entire camp. "We are told that the American soldier does not know what he was fighting for," he said. "Now, at least he will know what he is fighting against."

#20 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2013-03-14 04:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

isenhower issued an order that American units in the area were to visit the camp. He also issued a call to the press back home. A group of prominent journalists, led by the dean of American publishers, Joseph Pulitzer, came to see the concentration camps. Pulitzer initially had "a suspicious frame of mind," he wrote. He expected to find that many of "the terrible reports" printed in the United States were "exaggerations and largely propaganda." But they were understatements, he reported.

Within days, Congressional delegations came to visit the concentration camps, accompanied by journalists and photographers. General Patton was so angry at what he found at Buchenwald that he ordered the Military Police to go to Weimar, four miles away, and bring back 1,000 civilians to see what their leaders had done, to witness what some human beings could do to others. The MPs were so outraged they brought back 2,000. Some turned away. Some fainted. Even veteran, battle-scarred correspondents were struck dumb. In a legendary broadcast on April 15, Edward R. Murrow gave the American radio audience a stunning matter-of-fact description of Buchenwald, of the piles of dead bodies so emaciated that those shot through the head had barely bled, and of those children who still lived, tattooed with numbers, whose ribs showed through their thin shirts. "I pray you to believe what I have said about Buchenwald," Murrow asked listeners. "I have reported what I saw and heard, but only part of it; for most of it I have no words." He added, "If I have offended you by this rather mild account of Buchenwald, I am not in the least sorry."

#21 | Posted by HeliumRat at 2013-03-14 04:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

Generals George Patton, Omar Bradley, and Dwight Eisenhower arrived in Ohrdruf on April 12
#20 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

Ohrdruf was a labor camp - you will not find a single claim of a gas chamber, crematoria, etc in any of the accounts. The prisoners held there died from starvation and a typhus epidemic brought on by the ally bombing of German infrastructure. Should the Germans have put the Jews in concentration camps - absolutely not. They are responsible for their deaths. Was this a 'death camp' with gas chambers per the Holocaust narrative - no.

#22 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 04:36 AM | Reply | Flag:

Within days, Congressional delegations came to visit the concentration camps, accompanied by journalists and photographers. General Patton was so angry at what he found at Buchenwald
#21 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT

The total deaths at Buchenwald is officially stated as 33,462 (.56% of the 6M death toll). Once again - there is not a single gas chamber or gassing recorded here to fit the definition of a 'death camp'. I will also note that some of the items the US brought the location population in to see where:
1.) Human soap (since debunked)
2.) Human skin lampshades (now missing)
3.) Shrunken heads (from the state museum)

If you believe everything you read about Buchenwald, you have been terrible misled. Of course, the Allies brought in Alfred Hitchcock to make a 'real' film about the Death Camps in Germany (where no gassings took place) and those films unfortunately is what most people think the holocaust was. The facts remains though - that not a single gassing occurred within all of the area liberated by the US or British so none of these camps were death camps. Again, however, I will repeat - Should the Germans have put the Jews in concentration camps - absolutely not. They are responsible for their deaths.

#23 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 04:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

"I think that you will find the mainstream account is incorrect in many aspects but that the general story of the holocaust is correct."

Yeah right, my own uncles who saw it with their own eyes were all liars.

#24 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-14 07:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

"If we can't get them out, we'll breed them out."

Edward I on the Scots

#5 | Posted by goatman at 2013-03-13 11:19 AM | Reply |

Or send them to Canada.

#25 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-14 07:55 AM | Reply | Flag:

Fascinating to read some of Jacque's posts----I appreciate them since they're fact based instead of propaganda often espoused. Keep holding truth up, Strap.

#26 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-14 08:05 AM | Reply | Flag:

My uncles were there, they were American troops who freed some of those camps, to be a holocaust denier is a crime in Germany. Now, this liar who believes Neo-Nazi propaganda posts those lies here? It's worse than pornography.

#27 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-14 08:14 AM | Reply | Flag:

Within days, Congressional delegations came to visit the concentration camps, accompanied by journalists and photographers. General Patton was so angry at what he found at Buchenwald
#21 | POSTED BY HELIUMRAT
The total deaths at Buchenwald is officially stated as 33,462 (.56% of the 6M death toll). Once again - there is not a single gas chamber or gassing recorded here to fit the definition of a 'death camp'. I will also note that some of the items the US brought the location population in to see where:
1.) Human soap (since debunked)
2.) Human skin lampshades (now missing)
3.) Shrunken heads (from the state museum)
If you believe everything you read about Buchenwald, you have been terrible misled. Of course, the Allies brought in Alfred Hitchcock to make a 'real' film about the Death Camps in Germany (where no gassings took place) and those films unfortunately is what most people think the holocaust was. The facts remains though - that not a single gassing occurred within all of the area liberated by the US or British so none of these camps were death camps. Again, however, I will repeat - Should the Germans have put the Jews in concentration camps - absolutely not. They are responsible for their deaths.
#23 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 04:44 AM

I just got a copy of Room 237 - apparently the Pentagon really did acquire Stanley Kubrick as a reluctant adviser for their moon landing.. perhaps more. It does appear to follow their method of operation. Do you know the title Hitchcock advised them on?

#28 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2013-03-14 09:49 AM | Reply | Flag:

My uncles were there, they were American troops who freed some of those camps, to be a holocaust denier is a crime in Germany. Now, this liar who believes Neo-Nazi propaganda posts those lies here? It's worse than pornography.
#27 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-14 08:14 AM

Yes, there are histrionic laws put in place to silence any questioning the officiation of historic knowledge, imo.

Distrust all police-enforced history, Danni.

#29 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2013-03-14 09:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

Concentration, death, or slave labor camps, it was all brutal Jacque.

www.dachau.gerstein.dk

#30 | Posted by patron at 2013-03-14 10:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

My best friend in this world was born in Germany. His mother would beat the tar out of anyone saying what y'all are saying. She's not Jewish either but her father and two of her brothers were dragged out of their home by the Nazis never to be seen or heard from again because they refused to join the Nazi Party. It is a crime to deny the true history in Germany specifically to prevent people like you holocause deniers from convincing enough Germans that it didn't really happen so that they could repeat it.

#31 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-14 10:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

"If we can't get them out, we'll breed them out."
Edward I on the Scots
#5 | Posted by goatman at 2013-03-13 11:19 AM
Or send them to Canada.
#25 | Posted by matsop at 2013-03-14 07:55 AM

This video from a Paiute native explains how the red-haired giants Saiduka of Humboldt county California were also interbred out of sociological existence. He explains although they lent out the giant skeleton which was never returned, they do display Lovelock culture tools, baskets, and dolls which are completely alien to the Piaute, noting that some woven fabrics carbon date earlier than ten thousand years ago, were these part of some ancient dowry the giants protected? Like a treasure?:]] Anyhow, it's sad to note that according to their own legends the invading Paiutes committed genocide, exterminating the remaining Saiduka who periodically would eat one of them, so.. you know.

Check out this possibly 9,000 year old Saiduka duck decoy. They really must have been advanced hunters.

The Washoe of Arizona also have legend of a cannibal giant that lived in a cave near sacred Cave Rock - this is the land that connects to California - these giants were probable isolated families spread across quite a large territory.

#32 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2013-03-14 10:56 AM | Reply | Flag:

Also, what I said before regarding their "sudden extermination" not necessarily being at the hands of genocidal aggressors.. appears to be, uh, not so correct. If any ol' Saiduka would periodically ritually murder and consume a non-giant I can see how a ban on even reproducing their technologies might also extend into mythological proportions. The Paiute "legends" seem to be pretty matter-of-fact thus far.

This would be an awesome topic to document in person, being so close.

#33 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2013-03-14 11:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

One of the biggest issues I have with modern science and publishing of research is that the scientists are only rewarded for publishes theories

Ummmmmm no. Scientists publish data to support a hypothesis.

Is there a bias against negative data? Yes, which is unfortunate in many cases. However, given how it is nearly impossible to keep up with that publication pace, adding negative data to the mix, while beneficial, would be overload.

The other issue is negative data often is uninterpretable and if it is, doesn't really mean all that much.

which the mainstream media puts forth as the undisputed truth rather than simply a theory.

Yeah, science reporting sucks.

There is no reward for someone to simply publish - "We discovered this amazing attribute about XYZ and we don't know what the hell it means".

Because that's not all that helpful. I notice a lot of interesting things that I have no idea what the hell they mean. They only become interesting when I can fit it into the broader picture of my field.

#34 | Posted by jpw at 2013-03-14 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

My best friend in this world was born in Germany. His mother would beat the tar out of anyone saying what y'all are saying. She's not Jewish either but her father and two of her brothers were dragged out of their home by the Nazis never to be seen or heard from again because they refused to join the Nazi Party. It is a crime to deny the true history in Germany specifically to prevent people like you holocause deniers from convincing enough Germans that it didn't really happen so that they could repeat it.
#31 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-14 10:23 AM

The grandfathers of modern electronic dance music - the people who invented the seeds of everything we now hear - are German. Some of the most popular classical composers, important figures in all scientific discipline are German. I also realize that NASA was built upon NAZI ex-patriots, but that's insignificant compared with my loathing for their organizations purposeful misinformation and falsification campaign. Without getting into the Apollo marshland, unfortunately it is the NASA narrative that is memed along forevermore, regardless the growing community of critical analysts. It's healthy to respect yourself and to criticize those who do not.

I feel that maintaining the Holocaust as a "forbidden" topic is childish and disrespectful. The [bleepholes] will be self-apparent, so until they appear it would be nice to be nice.

#35 | Posted by redlightrobot at 2013-03-14 11:33 AM | Reply | Flag:

Do you know the title Hitchcock advised them on?
#28 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBOT

Memory of the Camps. Actually, the entire 'why we fight' series released in America during the war was more or less propaganda (I think everyone would admit to this) so you need to take that into consideration when you view any official military 'documentary' filmed at this time. However, it was these film productions that led to such universal untruths such as the shrunken heads and human fat soap - which have now all been officially debunked.

On the Russian side, they had all their footage filmed under their ministry of propaganda and I don't think anyone would argue the productions under this ministry were 'documentaries' in any sense of the word.

Once again, these are just facts - I would never argue the concentration camps in Germany were are sunshine and unicorns, that was never the case and their mere existence made them wrong.

#36 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 12:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

My uncles were there, they were American troops who freed some of those camps, to be a holocaust denier is a crime in Germany. Now, this liar who believes Neo-Nazi propaganda posts those lies here? It's worse than pornography.

#27 | POSTED BY DANNI

First, unless your uncles fought for the Red Army, they absolutely did not free a death camp.

Second, can you name me another topic that is illegal to research in the Western world?

Third, I guess that I love the US Constitution because it enables us to research whatever we want - you know, that document you want to get rid of apparently.

Fourth, I find absolutely nothing wrong with pornography. Your attack on it seems to just be one more attempt by your ilk to get rid of the 1st amendment.

#37 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 12:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Washoe of Arizona also have legend of a cannibal giant that lived in a cave near sacred Cave Rock - this is the land that connects to California - these giants were probable isolated families spread across quite a large territory.

#32 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBOT

RLR - this is a pretty interesting topic and I have to admit that I did not hear about it previously. I will have to do some research on it. For some time, my theory has been that there were multiple mass extinction events in the past that erased cultures at different levels of advancement. For instance, I have read a lot on the pre-Clovis, and Clovis people. Clearly, these people had a more advance tool kit than those that came later and were driven to extinction for some unknown reason without interbreeding. I think there is a lot of history to still uncover in the US.

#38 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 12:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

Because that's not all that helpful. I notice a lot of interesting things that I have no idea what the hell they mean. They only become interesting when I can fit it into the broader picture of my field.

#34 | POSTED BY JPW

I disagree. With the internet as a means for distributing information along with many breakthroughs occurring in adjacent fields, the world would be a much better place if the actual data was shared rather than someone always trying to make sense of it first. Sometime, simply knowing something exists is very useful even if we don't understand the underlying reason for why it exists.

#39 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 12:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

"American G.I.'s began entering the Nazi concentration camps sixty-five years ago this month. Liberating. Witnessing. And showing the world the horrors of what had been done.

In recent weeks, ceremonies in Germany and the U.S. have commemorated the liberations, which continued through the month of April and into May, 1945."

onpoint.wbur.org

"Second, can you name me another topic that is illegal to research in the Western world? "

We aren't discussing research, we were discussing the illegality of attempts to rewrite history in Germany. We have our own history rewriters over here, they like to focus on things like the Great Depression, FDR, etc. There again, I had family members who lived it and could speak with first hand knowledge.

Lastly, I will give you your point about pornography, I don't care for it but I don't have anything against those who do like it.

#40 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-14 12:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

"American G.I.'s began entering the Nazi concentration camps sixty-five years ago this month. Liberating. Witnessing. And showing the world the horrors of what had been done.

There is a difference between a death camp and a concentration camp. Yes, people died at concentration camps but there was no systematic attempt at extermination. Death was a result of the lack of adequate food and medical supplies at the end of the war (when German infrastructure was destroyed). There was not a gas chamber in any of the concentration camps in Germany - they all existed in Poland. This does not make it right that the Germans, or Americans, or British, or Japanese, or Russians employed concentration camps - it is a violation of basic human rights. The death that resulted was entirely avoidable by simply never having this system put in place.

We aren't discussing research, we were discussing the illegality of attempts to rewrite history in Germany.

Danni, in order to get history correct, sometimes we need to research unpleasant subjects. For example - we now know that human soap never existed. We also now know that no gassings occurred in Dachau - this despite that being the story for many, many years. Just because the information is related to the holocaust, you want to stop all research. You would rather call someone a holocaust denier than simply admit that mistakes were made in the previous recording of history. I am not making a case of the Germans being correct in policies, I just want to know the actual facts - we are doing our future generations a disservice by passing along know untruths.

#41 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 12:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

The Washoe of Arizona also have legend of a cannibal giant that lived in a cave near sacred Cave Rock - this is the land that connects to California - these giants were probable isolated families spread across quite a large territory.

#32 | POSTED BY REDLIGHTROBOT
RLR - this is a pretty interesting topic and I have to admit that I did not hear about it previously. I will have to do some research on it. For some time, my theory has been that there were multiple mass extinction events in the past that erased cultures at different levels of advancement. For instance, I have read a lot on the pre-Clovis, and Clovis people. Clearly, these people had a more advance tool kit than those that came later and were driven to extinction for some unknown reason without interbreeding. I think there is a lot of history to still uncover in the US.

#38 | POSTED BY JACQUE_STRAP AT 2013-03-14 12:26 PM | FLAG:

To both of you - another thing I find interesting, particularly given their geographical location are the old Norse myths about Trolls and Dwarves, which could possibly be ancestral descriptions of Neanderthals. Also, Midgaard was supposedly inhabited by another race of men - cunning and smarter than humans, but ugly, hairy, antisocial. Impossible to prove, but fascinating to speculate about.

#42 | Posted by zeropointnrg at 2013-03-14 04:42 PM | Reply | Flag:

To both of you - another thing I find interesting, particularly given their geographical location are the old Norse myths about Trolls and Dwarves,
#42 | POSTED BY ZEROPOINTNRG

Homo Erectus skeletons have been found in Indonesia that date back as little as 15k years. Also, there is pretty clear evidence via skull structure of localized evolution with homo erectus and AMH from East Asia both displaying the same skull characteristics. If "Out of Africa" is correct, the timing is way off. As a result, we would expect many migrations through the years that may or may not have been killed off in mass extinction events. Those migrations with localized evolution could have constituted many distinct races.

On more concrete things - there is pretty compelling evidence that the Clovis people were Europeans that traveled to America via skin boats and the partial ice sheet on the Atlantic. This is based on similarity in tool kit to the so named 'Colvis' point.

#43 | Posted by Jacque_Strap at 2013-03-14 05:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Lack of ability to communicate killed them?

#44 | Posted by Tor at 2013-03-14 05:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

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