Cloud Computing's Debt to NASA

Sunday, March 10, 2013

ComputerWorld: IBM's announcement this week that it would base its cloud services on OpenStack may help establish the open-source platform as the standard in enterprises. IBM along with Hewlett-Packard, Dell, Cisco, Red Hat and Rackspace, which helped developed the platform, are supporting OpenStack. This means that just about every Fortune 1000 company will be using vendors that are building products and services based on the OpenStack-based cloud platform. Considering that OpenStack is less than three years old, this may be remarkable.

Posted by whodaman at 11:05 AM | 33 COMMENTS | permalink | Comment on This Entry |

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whodaman

Joined 2005/06/15
Visited 2013/05/24

Status: user

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Cloud Computing's Debt to NASA (33 comments) ...

The rapid rise of OpenStack may not have happened without NASA. That may be worth noting, especially in a time of government sequesters, budget cutting and retreats on R&D spending.

The government has played a crucial role in the development of many technologies and platforms, including GPS, lasers and the Internet.

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Hear hear!

and here's more:

spinoff.nasa.gov

#1 | Posted by TrueBlue at 2013-03-08 11:40 AM | Reply | Flag:

Just another example of how Federal investment has enabled private industries to make fortunes. One of the lesser known ones is how Federal purchasing decisions can drive markets: At the beginning of my IT career, when TCP/IP was in its infancy, all the major computer manufacturers, most notably IBM, DEC, HP, and Burroughs all had proprietary networking protocols. Vendors wanted to tie their customers into using only their products. IBM was heavily invested in its SNA (Systems Network Architecture) products, which required expensive software and hardware front ends. Customers were frustrated in trying to network computers from different vendors. Then in March of 1982 the Department Of Defense stepped in. They required that all computer systems being bid for DOD must include support for the TCP/IP (federal government developed) protocol so that (for example) IBM computers in the Army could talk to DEC computers in the Air Force.

Ultimately, it was the ubiquity of the TCP/IP protocol stack on all computers, large and small, that made the internet as we know it today possible.

So Al Gore, or no Al Gore, it is because of Federal Government investment that this forum even has a place to live.

#2 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-08 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

#1 Great link

#3 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-08 11:53 AM | Reply | Flag:

The cloud is perfect for public facing information and compute apps. However private and secret corporate and government data will never find a place in the cloud. That must be very closely controlled by select few and HW/SW from within.

All that aside, yes... good post.

#4 | Posted by path at 2013-03-08 12:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

Transistors wouldn't exist if not for the military.

#5 | Posted by Harry_Powell at 2013-03-08 12:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

However private and secret corporate and government data will never find a place in the cloud. That must be very closely controlled by select few and HW/SW from within.

#4 | Posted by path

These vendors have been dealing with private and secret corporate and government data for many decades now and their success will depend on their being able to deliver that kind of security. Private companies will end up making $100's of Billions on it. Enabled by Federal Government investment in R&D.

#6 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-08 01:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Rather that admit that the fedgov was responsible for any such inovation, many conservatives would prefer we were still reading bibles by candlelight.

#7 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2013-03-08 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

that = than

#8 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2013-03-08 02:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

Government produces nothing.

- Moonbats.

#9 | Posted by 726 at 2013-03-08 04:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Private companies will end up making $100's of Billions on it. Enabled by Federal Government investment in R&D.

#6 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN

Isnt it the left that says socialize the losses privatize the profits? Can't have it both ways...
Seems to me NASA wasn't needed, but people within NASA needed something to do. You can thank Rackspace for sure, but you can see how its advantageous to them if you understand their business model.
www.omg.org

Government produces nothing.
- Moonbats.

#9 | POSTED BY 726

It does, but its not needed..... so why confiscate money to develop something that will eventually be done by the market ?

You might say the Internet is what everyone uses and was developed by the government. Which I reply true, but it was free to the corporations that used it, and there were alternative networking technologies that were better. Free isn't always better but it does tend to win out in communications...... do to the ....wait for it..... network effect.

#10 | Posted by AndreaMackris at 2013-03-08 04:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

#10 | Posted by AndreaMackris

If there were alternative networking technologies that were better, they would have been developed by the industry, but guess what? They weren't willing to make the investment. Do you think private industry would ever have made the investment (absent Pentagon/NASA funding) to develop the necessary rockets to boost a communications satellite into geosynchronous orbit?

If it weren't for the government enforcing antitrust to break up AT&T, what do you think you would be paying for long distance (transported nowadays using TCP/IP, by the way)? Do you remember how much it cost back then? And the mobile telephone market? ATT showed no early interest in that either. Free market fantasies only seem to be able to point how what has happened as a result of government investment would have happened anyway if the government hadn't invested. Like digital computers (originally funded by the Pentagon)? Or lasers? Or even Velcro? Food packaging and storage technology developed for NASA?

Sometimes the needs of a society can't wait until somebody can elucidate a business plan that makes a "suitable" return in a short enough time to make a nice fat profit for some corporation!

Is there a country in the world that is currently run the way you think it should be? Which one? And if not, why not? If your way is better, surely someone must have built a very successful country on that model.

#11 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-08 05:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Seems to me NASA wasn't needed, but people within NASA needed something to do.
#10 | POSTED BY ANDREAMACKRIS AT 2013-03-08 04:36 PM | REPLY | FLAG:

That's an interesting way to look at it. Of course, you have to ignore the fact that NASA *gasp* uses IT in its daily business and has a vested interest in this type of development for its own use. These weren't rocket scientists developing this product, it was the dedicated IT personnel at NASA that needed a solution to a computing problem and worked with the private sector to develop a solution that was beneficial to all parties.

You seem to be assuming that because NASA's primary mission isn't IT it shouldn't be spending money on IT developments. That's silly. NASA's primary missions are supported by IT and all sorts of other non-space related activities; without these activities NASA wouldn't be able to fulfill its primary missions.

#12 | Posted by bartimus at 2013-03-08 05:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

They weren't willing to make the investment...
#11 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN AT 2013-03-08 05:10 PM | FLAG:

Using NASA as an example, this is the exact model of commercial space flight today. All the Boeings, Lockheeds, Sierra Nevada's and SpaceX's of the world wouldn't be able to be doing what they're doing without heavy subsidies from NASA. They aren't willing to make 100% of the initial investment because the business model says the development costs are too much. So NASA steps in, awards billions of dollars a year to these companies, and basically fronts the development costs.

Once manned Dragons and Orions are launching every other week, some folks will step in and say NASA wasn't needed, completely ignoring the business model explained above...

#13 | Posted by bartimus at 2013-03-08 05:21 PM | Reply | Flag:

Seems to me NASA wasn't needed, but people within NASA needed something to do...

#10 | Posted by AndreaMackris

Sounds about right. There's no need to throw money at NASA to develop "technology" if people still want to pursue that dubious goal. One could seed thousands of inventors with good ideas with all the money wasted on going to the moon.

#14 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-08 05:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

Isnt it the left that says socialize the losses privatize the profits?

#10 | Posted by AndreaMackris

No, it's the right that actually practices the concept.

Realistic people understand that those who profit the most should suffer the costs of earning such profits.

#15 | Posted by Whatsleft at 2013-03-08 07:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

So Al Gore, or no Al Gore, it is because of Federal Government investment that this forum even has a place to live.
#2 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-08 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

That whore didn't invent anything. I did - and the only way I was able to get it patented was to sell it to my previous employer --- since the patent process has become a "Pay To Play" system.

JP Morgan made sure Tesla wasn't allowed to own his own creation... Thankfully OUR creations are bigger than the owners - and its happening faster and faster. My version of the internet will outlive my former employer no matter how big they think they are.

appft1.uspto.gov... 20100333182 SELF-REALIZING EXPANDABLE COMMUNICATIONS NETWORK (the 'intranet' patent by reitze)

And yes, I built "the machine" too... I'm Harold Finch (ref Person Of Interst). What I didn't expect is the extremes to which people would go to control it... thankfully its smarter than they are and has already adapted to their feeble attemts.

#16 | Posted by reitze at 2013-03-08 08:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

And what really p'd me off about NASA was Toyota. What's next simplex fly by wire in airplanes? Remember the O-rings?

DesignForSafety (an article by reitze). I wrote that a month before the NASA whitewash - which is amazingly foul of simple science - they lied for Toyota, Ford, ...

Car's accelerating? nananasa we can't here you ... go for the ride... kiss it goodby... nanana.... -- NASA.

#17 | Posted by reitze at 2013-03-08 08:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

#11 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN

I still remember when we were growing up in the 70's having to "rent" our telephone...and by that I mean the actual telephone. Broke the cord once, had to call MaBell and have them come out to replace it.

#23 | Posted by Lohocla at 2013-03-09 10:37 AM | Reply | Flag:

And it was illegal to connect a non-Bell phone to your line.

#24 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-10 08:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

And it was illegal to connect a non-Bell phone to your line.

They existed?

I remember a neighbor who somehow acquired another phone and had to turn off the ringer. The phone company used to check for second phones by measuring the current draw of the old bell and clapper type ringers.

#25 | Posted by goatman at 2013-03-10 08:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Just goes to show the danger of monopoly. Suppression of innovation due to lack of competition.

#26 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-10 10:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

AT&T invented the transistor. The military declared it too important to patent. There are situations where only a monopoly makes sense. Natural monopolies include power poles, water & sewer lines, roads, bridges & ports. They must be regulated. Many right wing idealogues seek control of these facilities not for the common good, but for profit. Once they gain control the sky's the limit on profit, because its a monopoly. There is no evidence they are more efficient because of competition, because its a monopoly. There is plenty of evidence they charge more for less while providing less pay and benefits for their employees. Squeezing both ends.

#27 | Posted by nutcase at 2013-03-11 07:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

Agreed. Natural monopolies (like electricity and water, for example) have to be regulated. Back in the Enron scandal in California, those who got their electricity from the municipal Department of Water and Power in LA didn't experience the same rolling blackouts that other systems did.

#28 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-11 08:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

"One could seed thousands of inventors with good ideas with all the money wasted on going to the moon.

#14 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-08 05:43 PM | Reply | Flag

Money well spent. What do you think humans are going to do? Just sit around Earth year after year, decade after decade, doing what? You may not care about having kids or protecting future generations, but some do.

#29 | Posted by danv at 2013-03-11 01:39 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Money well spent."

On going to the moon? Ridiculous. A big Cold War boondoggle that produced nothing other than moon rocks.

#30 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-11 01:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

Unless you consider how much it provided the impetus (money) for advances in computing and communications technology...

#31 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-11 02:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

Null doesn't care about advancing technology, if it was up to him we would still be plowing fields with oxen. Now that's a hard days work!

#32 | Posted by danv at 2013-03-11 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Space Program Benefits: NASA's Positive Impact on Society

www.nasa.gov

#33 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-11 02:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

The headline should read "CLOUD COMPUTING'S DEBT TO THE USA TAXPAYER".

#34 | Posted by Robson at 2013-03-11 07:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Bell Labs invented much, and their manufacturing arm produced major technological advances in the USA. Now they are in France and manufacturing is in China all due to Reagan and a "Judge Greene" and the incompetent leadership of a USA managed for outsiders and banksters only.

#35 | Posted by Robson at 2013-03-11 07:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

And nobody in the US is producing major technological advances in the USA today? Seriously, dude?

#36 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-11 09:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Cloud computing. Put tons of personal stuff on the net. What could go wrong?

#37 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-11 09:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's really easy to miss retorts when people engage in air-blogging.

I missed brother Whodaman's retort as a result, and probably hundreds of other responses because certain individuals are incompetent or too lazy or too chicken to make clear who or what text they are responding too.

#38 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-11 09:40 PM | Reply | Flag: