Drudge Retort: The Other Side of the News
Friday, March 08, 2013

The Republican-dominated Arkansas legislature overrode Gov. Mike Beebe's (D) veto of a bill that bans abortion after 12 weeks. The law, set to take effect this summer but certain to face a court challenge, prohibits abortions from the point when a fetus' heartbeat can typically be detected using an abdominal ultrasound. There are exceptions for rape, incest, the life of the mother and some fetal disorders. Beebe said he vetoed the law because it will be found unconstitutional in light of the 1973 Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling and waste taxpayer money to defend in court.

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Republicans sure do have a deep hatred towards women. Guess their make believe invisible man told them too!

#1 | Posted by truthteller101 at 2013-03-08 08:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

Republicans sure do have a deep hatred towards women.

Funny how you see that. I see it as conservatives that love unborn children. But you dont want to give the opposition the vaunted children badge, do you?

In my opinion, a woman has to find out she's pregnant first. Then she (hopefully with the male involved) can make a decision as to whether abort or not. I like the provision for rape, incest, etc. Looks like an all around good bill for liberals to compromise on...What? No compromise?

#2 | Posted by boaz at 2013-03-08 08:45 AM | Reply | Flag:

No worries, they will still have 3 months to murder the little bugger.

#3 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 08:58 AM | Reply | Flag:

What? No compromise?

#2 | Posted by boaz at 2013-03-08 08:45 AMFlag: (Choose)
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I dunno. Did this Arkansas bill have a provision permitting abortion after rape or incest?

#4 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 09:08 AM | Reply | Flag:

I dunno. Did this Arkansas bill have a provision permitting abortion after rape or incest?

#4 | Posted by Zed

The law, set to take effect this summer but certain to face a court challenge, prohibits abortions from the point when a fetus' heartbeat can typically be detected using an abdominal ultrasound. There are exceptions for rape, incest, the life of the mother and some fetal disorders.

#5 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 09:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

Apparently it does. Now, is the burden of proof on the woman to prove rape or incest prior to abortion?

#6 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 09:11 AM | Reply | Flag:

In other words, can a woman state "My father raped me" and get an abortion, or do we have to wait for a trial and DNA testing?

#7 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 09:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

I'm quite sure that the author of this bill wants to take the woman's word for it, that she was raped by her father. How about you, DANIEL?

#8 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 09:15 AM | Reply | Flag:

If a woman is raped there is a pretty good chance she will know she is pregnant prior to 12 weeks. Then she doesn't have to "prove" anything.

#9 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-03-08 09:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

Zed,

You are moving the goalposts, talking about things that have nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

#10 | Posted by boaz at 2013-03-08 09:21 AM | Reply | Flag:

If a woman is raped there is a pretty good chance she will know she is pregnant prior to 12 weeks. Then she doesn't have to "prove" anything.

#9 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-03

Not proof of the pregnancy, DALTON. Proof of the rape. Does the woman have to prove a rape?

#11 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 09:22 AM | Reply | Flag:

You are moving the goalposts, talking about things that have nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

#10 | Posted by boaz at 2013-03-08

I'm asking the obvious questions.

#12 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 09:23 AM | Reply | Flag:

Beebe said he vetoed the law because it will be found unconstitutional in light of the 1973 Roe v. Wade Supreme Court ruling and waste taxpayer money to defend in court.

Nuff said.

#13 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-08 09:25 AM | Reply | Flag:

Until the woamn proves the rape, can she be legally enjoined from soliciting an abortion? Looks like they are going after the doctors in Arkansas, however. Therefore, what medical doctor in his right mind would take a woman's word for it that she was raped? I assume the doc wants to avoid jail.

#14 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 09:28 AM | Reply | Flag:

The exceptions for rape and incest aren't really intended to be exceptions at all, are they? Just another dishonest game played for the sake of morality. In Arkansas, they have a difficult time with contradictions.

#15 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 09:30 AM | Reply | Flag:

Just another dishonest game played for the sake of morality.

Close. It is a shell game to shame the victim into not getting the abortion as most rapes go unreported due to a feeling of embarrassment in the victim. It is an attempt to place the burden of proof on the victim since a court trial of the accused rapist/incest will take a long time and the window for the abortion would pass.

#16 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-08 09:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

In Arkansas, they have a difficult time with contradictions.

I dont think you want to get into the contradictions of liberals. There are too many to name anyway, I dont have time..

#17 | Posted by boaz at 2013-03-08 09:38 AM | Reply | Flag:

I dont think you want to get into the contradictions of liberals. There are too many to name anyway, I dont have time..

#17 | POSTED BY BOAZ

Busy defending the sanctity of marriage in airport bathrooms, huh?

#18 | Posted by Sycophant at 2013-03-08 09:42 AM | Reply | Flag:

This law is dead-on-arrival. It's unconstitutional under Roe v. Wade.

#19 | Posted by Sycophant at 2013-03-08 09:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

Just let these women have the kids. Then turn them over to the religious orphanages and let the priest have their way with them...

Its a religious thing,you know!

#20 | Posted by truthteller101 at 2013-03-08 09:47 AM | Reply | Flag:

I dont think you want to get into the contradictions of liberals.

#17 | Posted by boaz at 2013

You guys are so damned worried that women will get one by on you, and trick you into obtaining an abortion when they are not entitled to one. And as if you think any of them are entitled to one in the first place

#21 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 09:52 AM | Reply | Flag:

Not proof of the pregnancy, DALTON. Proof of the rape. Does the woman have to prove a rape?

#11 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 09:22 AM | Reply | Flag

Many you are an emotional fella. All caps in the name? Anyway, they only have to prove rape or incest after the 12 weeks. First off I'm not a abortion guy one way or the other. I'm not making the decision and it's stupid to say make them illegal. I was just pointing out to answer your question about when they have to prove rape or incest. And my point is a woman would no under any circumstance if they were pregnant before 12 weeks.

#22 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-03-08 10:00 AM | Reply | Flag:

I'm not making the decision and it's stupid to say make them illegal.

That is picking a side. Commit =D

#23 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-08 10:01 AM | Reply | Flag:

Anyway, they only have to prove rape or incest after the 12 weeks

| Posted by Dalton at 2013-03-08 10:00 AM | Reply | Flag

So, practically speaking all or almost all women who wait, for whatever reason, after twelve weeks to get an abortion will never have one.

If the doctor makes a mistake, or can even be alleged to make a mistake, on twelve weeks versus, twelve-and-a-half, can he be charged and arrested?

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 10:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

Busy defending the sanctity of marriage in airport bathrooms, huh?

#18 | Posted by Sycophant

I did snicker at that one. :)

#25 | Posted by boaz at 2013-03-08 10:20 AM | Reply | Flag:

I don't know Zed. If you are so concerned read the damn bill. I just pointed out that the abortion had to be before 12 weeks. Let me ask you a question as absurd as you've asked. Do you think law enforcement is waiting at the Dr office to argue if it's 12 weeks? I think the whole thing is stupid b/c it's not enforceable. Again, I just answered your original question about when they had to prove something. Last I checked people don't have to prove anything? The prosecutor would have to bring charges and prove the abortion took place after 12 weeks.

#26 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-03-08 10:27 AM | Reply | Flag:

If the doctor makes a mistake, or can even be alleged to make a mistake, on twelve weeks versus, twelve-and-a-half, can he be charged and arrested?

#24 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 10:03 AMFlag: (Choose)
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Obviously you have no clue how the court system works. Anything can be alleged but, it has to be proven by the prosecutor.

#27 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-03-08 10:29 AM | Reply | Flag:

I see it as conservatives that love unborn children.

Unless, of course, they are in some Iraqi or Palestine woman's womb. Then they're a two-fer.

Of course, the fact is "conservatives" have as many abortions as anybody else, they just pretend they don't because there's more money in it that way. See DOMA hero Bob Barr.

#28 | Posted by northguy3 at 2013-03-08 11:12 AM | Reply | Flag:

Boaz - I thought "conservatives' were all about small government. I guess bureaucrats in bedrooms and doctor's offices is "small". How 1984.

#29 | Posted by northguy3 at 2013-03-08 11:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

I think the whole thing is stupid b/c it's not enforceable.

Dalton - history has shown that the anti-choice big government folks will routinely claim the doctor isn't obeying the law and seize all their records for everybody in the hopes of finding a coupe of days discrepancy.

#30 | Posted by northguy3 at 2013-03-08 11:16 AM | Reply | Flag:

Those that protect puppies and curse the wearing of fur coats have no problem destroying a fetus with a heartbeat.

#31 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-08 11:24 AM | Reply | Flag:

Maybe so? I don't keep up with it. As I said I think it's stupid and as a male I think it's completely up to the woman. I only commented b/c Zed asked a question up thread. Also, I don't think the police "routinely" claim Dr's aren't following the law.

#32 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-03-08 11:28 AM | Reply | Flag:


Those that protect puppies and curse the wearing of fur coats have no problem destroying a fetus with a heartbeat.

Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-08 11:24 AM

I'll bet they also protect babies and curse the wearing of baby skin coats and have no problems destroying a puppy fetus with a heartbeat.

#33 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-08 11:32 AM | Reply | Flag:

Republicans do want to control a woman vagina. They think of themselves as today's catholic priest.

#34 | Posted by truthteller101 at 2013-03-08 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Republicans do want to control a woman vagina. They think of themselves as today's catholic priest.

#34 | Posted by truthteller101 at 2013-03-08 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag"

Wow, you are such a tool! Can u actually post anything that resembles a real thought from a human being.

#35 | Posted by danv at 2013-03-08 11:39 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Republicans do want to control a woman vagina. They think of themselves as today's catholic priest.

#34 | Posted by truthteller101 at 2013-03-08 11:34 AM | Reply | Flag"

Wow, you are such a tool! Can u actually post anything that resembles a real thought from a human being.

#35 | Posted by danv

Danv's right 101. Republicans are talibaptists, sexual proclivities aside.

#36 | Posted by northguy3 at 2013-03-08 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag:

What crime has an unborn child committed that is worthy of a death sentence?

#37 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 12:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Danv's right 101. Republicans are talibaptists, sexual proclivities aside.

#36 | Posted by northguy3 at 2013-03-08 11:43 AM | Reply | Flag:"

Some in the Republican party are Christian fundamentalists, true, and I have much contempt for there tyrannical ways.

But, One does not need God or the bible to see that abortion as form of birth control is a crime against our species. There our times when we, as a society allow it; rape, incest, health reasons. But once organs start forming, that is the beginning of scientific miracle, and those young humans should not be discarded simply because it is convenient for the mother/father.

Abortion on-demand cheapens life. Think of all the lives lost in Iraqi and Afghanistan, how many DR'ers rant against the Bush administration for starting those wars (rightfully so btw). But when millions are killed every year, year after year, simply because people are irresponsible, DR'ers are quiet as mouse. Shameful

#38 | Posted by danv at 2013-03-08 12:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

#38

Well said.

#39 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 12:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

"Abortion on-demand cheapens life. "

Yes it does. So does industrial farming, which is providing your steak tonight. So does the industrial capitalist assault on nature which is killing 200 species a day to subsidize our lifestyles.

#40 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-08 12:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

The higher the population grows the cheaper life becomes!

The more anything increases the cheaper it get... Just a fact!

#41 | Posted by truthteller101 at 2013-03-08 12:33 PM | Reply | Flag:

Do you think law enforcement is waiting at the Dr office to argue if it's 12 weeks?

#26 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-03-08 10:27 AMFlag: (Choose)
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I think people are so damned fanatical that something like this is likely to happen.

#42 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 01:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

#38, that is the biggest load of crap. If you don't want an abortion, don't get one. This isn't a complicated issue. I don't like guns, so I don't have one.

#43 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 01:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

I think people are so damned fanatical that something like this is likely to happen.

#42 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 01:10 PM | Reply | Flag

If you are that paranoid I don't know what else to say. If I may ask a question though. So, you are not worried about the Attorney General stating Obama can drone strike a American on the homeland but, are worried that the police will sit at Dr's office to check and see if the abortion is a day past 12 weeks?

#44 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-03-08 01:20 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's why I also said it was a dumb law b/c there is no way to prove it. You opined up thread that the woman would have to prove something which is wrong since a prosecutor would have to file charges then prove in court the abortion took place past the 12 week mark.

#45 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-03-08 01:23 PM | Reply | Flag:

Cost $$$$$$$

Birth control pills 50 cents if that?
Abortions cost under $300
Live Birth cost over $3,500

You pick,you pay for it,you decide!

#46 | Posted by truthteller101 at 2013-03-08 01:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Birth control pills 50 cents if that?
Abortions cost under $300
Live Birth cost over $3,500

You pick,you pay for it,you decide!

Posted by truthteller101 at 2013-03-08 01:27 PM |

Not returning the pregnant woman's calls: Priceless

#47 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-08 01:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

It's beyond me this is still an issue. Friggin' amazin'

#48 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 01:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

#47.That was funny.

#49 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 01:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let the religious have the kids... So they can have their way with them in their orphanages... Its a religious thing you know!

#50 | Posted by truthteller101 at 2013-03-08 01:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

This problem will never be solved through politics. It is a reflection of society as a whole. As we cheapen life more and more, we degenerate as a society.

#51 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 01:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

My biggest opposition to this law is that it will result in more Arkansanians being born.

#52 | Posted by JOE at 2013-03-08 01:35 PM | Reply | Flag:

#51...really? we are degenerating? so stopping abortion fixes that? What a crock

#53 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 01:37 PM | Reply | Flag:

if you are so against abortion, move to Arkansas. Then you won't be allow to get one. See, problem solved. You can degenerate there.

#54 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 01:38 PM | Reply | Flag:

What crime has an unborn child committed that is worthy of a death sentence?

#55 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 01:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

If you are that paranoid I don't know what else to say.

#44 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-03

Paranoia? Why not just a reasonable extropolation as to the future behavior by someone who watches what these people do in the present?

#56 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 01:41 PM | Reply | Flag:

So, you are not worried about the Attorney General stating Obama can drone strike a American on the homeland

#44 | Posted by Dalton at 2013-03-08 01:20 PMFlag: (Choose)
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I am not at all sure what you're talking about.

#57 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 01:43 PM | Reply | Flag:

#55..Move to Arkansas..then no worries. You won't be able to get one.

#58 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 01:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

LOL, you can't answer that question can you?

#59 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 01:46 PM | Reply | Flag:

What crime has an unborn child committed that is worthy of a death sentence?

#55 | Posted by Daniel at 2013

Therefore, you'd outlaw abortions for rape, incest, or the survival of the mother?

#60 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 01:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

I suspect that you'd have to, to be consistent.

#61 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 01:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

Therefore, you'd outlaw abortions for rape, incest, or the survival of the mother?

Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 01:47 PM

I debated someone once who actually did not support rape in cases of rape. When I confronted him about it, he said "you can't kill a child because the father was a criminal." I didn't agree with his conclusion (rape victims must have the child) but couldn't counter his logic.

#62 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-08 01:53 PM | Reply | Flag:

I debated someone once who actually did not support rape in cases of rape.

Doh! I mean abortion in cases of rape.

62 put Blazing Saddles in my mind:

You said rape twice!
I like rape.

#63 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-08 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

I don't get why some are so hell bent on wanting to prevent a woman they don't even know preventing her from getting an abortion of a child she doesn't want. Would you prefer she have it and drop it off at your front door?

#64 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Therefore, you'd outlaw abortions for rape, incest, or the survival of the mother?

#60 | Posted by Zed

Never said that but, why is it that in these discussions, it always points to instances of rape or incest. Pregnancies from these are less that 1% of all abortions and you want to justify the killing of millions of children every year based on this statistic?

To answer your question, I prefer the child be carried to term but, I would not forbid a woman from getting one under those circumstances.

#65 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 01:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

Never said that.

#65 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03

You strongly implied that. If you have in fact a child who has done no crime being executed, there's no space left to permit abortions.

#66 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 01:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

Pregnancies from these are less that 1% of all abortions and you want to justify the killing of millions of children every year based on this statistic?

#65 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 01:54 PMFlag: (Choose)
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And you would justify just killing the 1%?

#67 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-08 01:57 PM | Reply | Flag:

"I prefer the child be carried to term..."

So now you want to control others' bodies? How republican of you.

#68 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 02:00 PM | Reply | Flag:


I don't get why some are so hell bent on wanting to prevent a woman they don't even know preventing her from getting an abortion of a child she doesn't want. Would you prefer she have it and drop it off at your front door?

#64 | Posted by drewinnj

Actually, I'd have all those advocating for the murder of children be forcibly sterilized to prevent the need for abortions. See how easy that is.

#69 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 02:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

...a fetus is not a child...

...when it can climb out of mom's womb and walk away saying "I am on my own now, ma"....then you will have a point...

...until then, you got jack...

...LOL...

#70 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-08 02:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

#69...You're a hypocrite...You would be the first to bitch about your tax dollars paying for that... You're so full of it.

#71 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 02:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

when it can climb out of mom's womb and walk away saying "I am on my own now, ma"....then you will have a point...

So speech and the ability to walk are parts of defining life? Wow...six months old and you still ain't a person yet baby.

#72 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-08 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

And you would justify just killing the 1%?

#67 | Posted by Zed

Not justify but, understand the need to if it is indeed a threat to the mother's mental/physical health.

#73 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 02:04 PM | Reply | Flag:

Not justify but, understand the need to if it is indeed a threat to the mother's mental/physical health.

Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 02:04 PM

Maybe you need to learn the meaning of the word "justify" as the second half of your sentence IS justifying it.

#74 | Posted by kanrei at 2013-03-08 02:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

So tired of you and your type. So anti-abortion, but once the child is born you're first to claim "welfare queens, moochers".

#75 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 02:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Why do you know if you had a kid you would have to feed it. Is there no end to the surprises people have to face today? Oh wait the republicans just changed that,they are cutting food for kids..

Never mind!

#76 | Posted by truthteller101 at 2013-03-08 02:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Hey 1EyedMan...what up..Spike is @ ND this weekend

#77 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 02:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

So tired of you and your type.....

That's ok. I understand your type as well. Have a good day.

#78 | Posted by Daniel at 2013-03-08 02:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

You too..Don't get an abortion anytime soon, ok?

#79 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 02:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

You strongly implied that. If you have in fact a child who has done no crime being executed, there's no space left to permit abortions.

#66 | Posted by Zed

That's where their "logic" always fails. When you ask them about a pregnancy forced on a woman, they have to make up stories about how women who are forced don't get pregnant. Just so they can avoid the question. The other failure is when they say that abortion is murder, they don't explain who should get the death penalty for that murder; the mother or the doctor. And I guess the nurses and lab people and receptionists would be guilty of accessory before and after the fact!

The idea that a woman should be forced by the power of the state to carry a pregnancy to term regardless of her personal circumstances should be abhorrent to anyone who really believes in freedom.

#80 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-08 02:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Pro-Lifers have no clue what they want or what they are supposedly protecting.

They only thing they are successful at is proving they have no interest in the personal freedoms of the individual.

#81 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-08 02:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

...a fetus is not a child...

An egg is not a bird or a turtle. A habitat is not a species. Let's not protect those either. Agreed?

#82 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-08 03:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

so now humans are an endangered species? god almighty..

#83 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 03:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Once a woman's egg is fertilized (regardless of the circumstances) she forfeits autonomy over her body to the Government, who then defends the fetus from all harm that could be brought upon it by the potential criminal that is its mother. Who's going to monitor whether she's taking any drugs (illicit or prescription) that could harm the fetus, or whether she drinks, or engages in extreme sports? And if she has a miscarriage, don't we have to investigate to determine whether it's accidental or homicide? It's a great jobs program. Think of all the medical cops we'll need!

#84 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-08 03:44 PM | Reply | Flag:

Right, Whodaman..if she had a glass or two of wine, isn't that contributing to the delinquency of a minor? Just sayin.

#85 | Posted by drewinnj at 2013-03-08 03:55 PM | Reply | Flag:

An egg is not a bird or a turtle.

Agreed. Thats why you eat scrambled eggs for breakfast, not scrambled chicken.

A habitat is not a species.

A habitat is the natural home or environment of an animal, plant, or other organism.

Who told you it was a species?

Let's not protect those either. Agreed?

More information is needed.

#82 | POSTED BY SAMES1 AT 2013-03-08 03:05 PM | REPLY

#86 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-08 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

by the way, a fetus is not a child.

#87 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-08 04:06 PM | Reply | Flag:

Once a woman's egg is fertilized (regardless of the circumstances) she forfeits autonomy over her body to the Government, who then defends the fetus from all harm that could be brought upon it by the potential criminal that is its mother. Who's going to monitor whether she's taking any drugs (illicit or prescription) that could harm the fetus, or whether she drinks, or engages in extreme sports? And if she has a miscarriage, don't we have to investigate to determine whether it's accidental or homicide? It's a great jobs program. Think of all the medical cops we'll need!

#84 | POSTED BY WHODAMAN AT 2013-03-08 03:44 PM | REPLY |

You're right. Women between the age of 13 and 40 should be incarcerated in order to make sure they are all fulfilling God's design, that all women are simply vessels to bear children.

It's the ONLY way to make sure!!

It's in the best interest of the zygote/embryo/fetus!!

#88 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-08 04:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

Absolutely!

Talibaptists über alles!

#89 | Posted by WhoDaMan at 2013-03-08 04:29 PM | Reply | Flag:

He JerseyDude - Tell Spikle to give me a call when he gets back - wanna hear how it goes....

...I bet he wishes it was him...livin' vicariously!

...LOL...

#90 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-08 04:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

...now let me take moment to shoo away a coupla moscas...

#72: KANREI
"So speech and the ability to walk are parts of defining life?"

...it's a rhetorical device, junior...using hyperbole to advance the point - the point being a fetus is not a child. Did you actually think I meant that literally?....really...?

#82: SAMES1:
"An egg is not a bird or a turtle. A habitat is not a species. Let's not protect those either. Agreed?"

...your statement is irrelevant to the point of being a zoological non sequitor. I will break it down for you...

...DANIEL referred to abortion as "...killing millions of children..."....
...A fetus is not a child. Therefore, DANIEL assertion is wrong. Why you felt compelled to drag wildlife into the topic is anyone's guess.

..you are both welcome to try again, but if I were you I would not be expecting a result different the the "game - set - match"....my advise is to quit and avoid further public embarrassment...

...LOL...

#91 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-08 04:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

...WHODAMAN????

...YOU!...

...LOL...

#92 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-08 04:56 PM | Reply | Flag:

What crime has an unborn child committed that is worthy of a death sentence?

#55 | Posted by Daniel

Same crime a boatload of Iraqis and afghanis committed. Only those were real people, not a couple of cells hanging out together.

And since about 1/3 of all pregnancies end in miscarriages, it would appear that whatever God you choose to worship has no issue with abortions.

#93 | Posted by northguy3 at 2013-03-08 05:24 PM | Reply | Flag:

What did the rape fetus do to deserve death? What did the incest fetus do to deserve death? What makes the mothers' life more valueable than the fetus when the fetus is a danger to the mothers life? If the mother dies, there is always the chance of keeping her organs alive and functioning long enough to bring the fetus to term.

#94 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2013-03-08 05:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

"she forfeits autonomy over her body to the Government, who then defends the fetus from all harm that could be brought upon it by the potential criminal that is its mother. Who's going to monitor whether she's taking any drugs "

The government in Arkansas will, of course, make sure she doesn't smoke, or get exposed to second hand smoke or any pollution or chemicals which can impact the baby, right? And while also ensuring she has the right foods in sufficient supply and isn't required to do risky work which may harm the fetus.

I think all mothers to be should have Arkansas' support.

#95 | Posted by northguy3 at 2013-03-08 05:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

...where are all the death certificates for these executed children - or for those poor unfortunate children who suffered from terminal miscarriage?

...oh, they don't issue them!?!?!

...probably because a fetus is not a child...

...LOL...

#96 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-08 05:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

Liberal DumbF#E&(&#

#99 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-08 07:26 PM | Reply | Flag:

...sounds like Mr. S cracked his "egg" whilst writhing in the crushing grip of reason...

...LOL...

#100 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-08 08:22 PM | Reply | Flag:

Liberal DumbF#E&(&#
#99 | POSTED BY SAMES1 AT 2013-03-08 07:26 PM

More information is needed.

#101 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-08 08:25 PM | Reply | Flag:

As usual, the "liberals" here are making the wrong arguments. Arguing a fetus isn't a human makes you look ignorant and anti-science, and bringing up the burden to society makes you as cold as those who advocated infanticide for the same reasons.

#102 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-08 08:47 PM | Reply | Flag:

...the arguement was that a fetus is not a child - no one argued it was not human fetus...unless you are talking about a fetus that grows up to be some other species...

...jeez, forget science skills, your reading comprehension skill are seriously lacking...

...LOL...

#103 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-08 08:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

The idea that a woman should be forced by the power of the state to carry a pregnancy to term regardless of her personal circumstances should be abhorrent to anyone who really believes in freedom.

That's the main argument pro-abortionists should stick to, not all this other crap.

#104 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-08 08:54 PM | Reply | Flag:

#103... people argue fetuses aren't humans all the time. Are you really ignorant of this, or just trollin'? Saying it's not a child is along the same lines. Back when infanticide was common, newborn infants were not viewed as children either by those who advocated it. Now those people are viewed as backward barbarians. Go figure.

#105 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-08 09:02 PM | Reply | Flag:

But, One does not need God or the bible to see that abortion as form of birth control is a crime against our species. There our times when we, as a society allow it; rape, incest, health reasons. But once organs start forming, that is the beginning of scientific miracle, and those young humans should not be discarded simply because it is convenient for the mother/father.
Abortion on-demand cheapens life. Think of all the lives lost in Iraqi and Afghanistan, how many DR'ers rant against the Bush administration for starting those wars (rightfully so btw). But when millions are killed every year, year after year, simply because people are irresponsible, DR'ers are quiet as mouse. Shameful

#38 | POSTED BY DANV AT 2013-03-08 12:15 PM


Tell me Dan, at which point does a ball of cells turn into a human being? Which organ is it that turns the mass of cells into a human being? how is it that at any point prior to 6 months these cells cannot survive outside the mothers uterus? At what point is it a young human, and are we humans nothing more than our cells? Because you're advocating as such.

Also, as abortions on demand should make you value your life even more for you were not aborted.

The only thing that cheapens life is to limit it to our comprehension of it.

#106 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-08 09:03 PM | Reply | Flag:

Arguing a fetus isn't a human makes you look ignorant and anti-science, and bringing up the burden to society makes you as cold as those who advocated infanticide for the same reasons.
#102 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2013-03-08 08:47 PM | REPLY

A fetus can become a human being. but it is not a human being.

And bring up the burden to society is realistic.

Ignoring over populating, poor families having too many kids, children dying of hunger and disease, etc etc etc... is ridiculous.

#107 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-08 09:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Infanticide on demand should make you value your life even more for you were not infanticided.

#108 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-08 09:10 PM | Reply | Flag:

That's the main argument pro-abortionists should stick to, not all this other crap.
#104 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2013-03-08 08:54 PM | REPLY

The term "pro abortion" is about as honest as the term "anti woman".

#109 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-08 09:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

An infant can become a human being. but it is not a human being.

#110 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-08 09:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

#104 - MR. S: "people argue fetuses aren't humans all the time."

..just who are these people crowding your skull making such ridiculous arguments, Strawman?...nobody in this thread has...

...a human fetus grows to become a human child after birth. There is no need to make ridiculous assertions that said fetus is not "human" to blow your argument away like so much fluff. It is not a child by law. No death certificate is required after a miscarriage or abortion, because no person...child or otherwise..has died.

..these are the facts, don't care if you don't like them, but you cannot change them, and you cannot deny them, spin and obfuscate all you want...

...LOL...

#111 | Posted by 1EyedMan at 2013-03-08 09:13 PM | Reply | Flag:

Back when infanticide was common, newborn infants were not viewed as children either by those who advocated it. Now those people are viewed as backward barbarians. Go figure.
#105 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2013-03-08 09:02 PM

When was infanticide common?

Are you talking about China?

#112 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-08 09:14 PM | Reply | Flag:

An infant can become a human being. but it is not a human being.
#110 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2013-03-08 09:11 PM |

You're not a human being either, but I can forgive you.

#113 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-08 09:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

If your not the one who will paying the bills for healthcare and feeding it. You need to mind your own business.

You hear that GOP!

#114 | Posted by truthteller101 at 2013-03-08 09:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

#109, I was using "pro-abortion" as short hand for "pro-abortion rights". In that sense, I'm also "pro-abortion". I think it's more descriptive and honest than "pro-choice" or "supporting (only) a woman's right to self-determination".

#115 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-08 09:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

#111... Boy, do you look foolish. The post right after the one you just responded to.

#116 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-08 09:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

#112, 113... I would say do a web search for infanticide in history and you might learn something. But you're just trolling.

#117 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-08 09:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

#111... Boy, do you look foolish. The post right after the one you just responded to.

#116 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2013-03-08 09:28 PM | FLAG:

Actually. He and I are talking about two different things.

See if you can figure it out.

#118 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-08 11:08 PM | Reply | Flag:

#112, 113... I would say do a web search for infanticide in history and you might learn something. But you're just trolling.

#117 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2013-03-08 09:30 PM | FLAG:

You're the one moving goal posts and trolling with your ridiculous comparison of infanticide to abortions.

I (mistakenly) asked for you to elaborate.

Foolish of me to assume you were trying to have a discussion.

#119 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-08 11:15 PM | Reply | Flag:

*yawn*

The clown who said I'm not a human being thinks I'm the one not trying to have a discussion. That's almost cute.

#120 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-08 11:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

An infant can become a human being. but it is not a human being.

#110 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-08 09:11 PM | Reply | Flag:

Taking your statement at face value,what do you mean by that?

rwd

#121 | Posted by rightwingdon at 2013-03-08 11:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

"If your not the one who will paying the bills for healthcare and feeding it. You need to mind your own business.

You hear that GOP!

#114 | Posted by truthteller101 at 2013-03-08 09:18 PM | Reply | Flag"

When innocent human life being discarded, murdered for convenience, wholesale style; it is everyone's business.

When two humans (or more) engage in sexual intercourse they automatically assume the liable for the creation of life, both in the present and future.

So many on the left champion science and science funding, which is great. But at the same time, they fail to see that sentient, self-aware, intelligent life as a miracle.

It is even more so when one considers the almost impossible path of evolution, from a single celled organism to a collection of trillions of interconnected cells that comprise a human being,a process taking 100's of millions of years.

The passing on the spark of life to a new generation is scared, irregardless of your belief in a deity or not. One could even argue that conception, pregnancy, and birth are "scientifically scared".

#122 | Posted by danv at 2013-03-09 12:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

"Yes it does. So does industrial farming, which is providing your steak tonight. So does the industrial capitalist assault on nature which is killing 200 species a day to subsidize our lifestyles.

#40 | Posted by nullifidian at 2013-03-08 12:29 PM | Reply | Flag"

You have a point, at least with GMO foods. They threaten the delicate beauty of the plant domestication process that has helped drive our evolution in the past and is vital for the future.

#123 | Posted by danv at 2013-03-09 12:13 AM | Reply | Flag:

I see it as conservatives that love unborn children.

Once they are born however, f them.

#124 | Posted by 726 at 2013-03-09 06:44 AM | Reply | Flag:

#121... the same arguments being used in this thread about fetuses also apply to infants.

#125 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-09 09:19 AM | Reply | Flag:

I guess this means that women will now have to go to Missouri or Oklahoma to get their abortions.

Maybe it's time we had a national conversation on abortion control. We need a federal ban on abortions. Otherwise, women from AR will simply go to another state to get their abortions. That doesn't solve anything.

#126 | Posted by madbomber at 2013-03-09 12:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

If your not the one who will paying the bills for healthcare and feeding it. You need to mind your own business.

You hear that GOP!

Much like when we are "forced" to pay Healthcare premiums? Mind your own business huh?

#127 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-09 01:52 PM | Reply | Flag:

Much like when we are "forced" to pay Healthcare premiums? Mind your own business huh?

#127 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-09 01:52 PM | Reply | Flag

You only pay for yourself---what's the problem---do you expect others to pay your way?

#128 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2013-03-09 02:00 PM | Reply | Flag:

"You only pay for yourself---what's the problem-"

Don't forget, BOob, you gotta pay for Sandra Fluke's birth control too.

#129 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2013-03-09 02:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

Don't forget, BOob, you gotta pay for Sandra Fluke's birth control too.

#129 | Posted by jestgettinalong at 2013-03-09 02:09 PM | Reply

I believe you are mistaken. Sandra Fluke pays her own bills. If you get a bill with her name on it---don't pay.

#130 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2013-03-09 02:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

Calling a fetus an unborn child makes as much sense as calling a person an undead corpse. No such thing.

#131 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2013-03-09 02:31 PM | Reply | Flag:

So many on the left champion science and science funding, which is great. But at the same time, they fail to see that sentient, self-aware, intelligent life as a miracle.

#122 | Posted by danv at 2013-03-09 12:03 AM | Reply | Flag:

Interesting. You think a fetus is sentient. Do you recall your time in the womb? Do you recall being born?

#132 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2013-03-09 02:34 PM | Reply | Flag:

#121... the same arguments being used in this thread about fetuses also apply to infants.
#125 | POSTED BY SENTINEL AT 2013-03-09 09:19 AM | FLAG:

And this is where you prove you have no concept what a fetus is.

Or what the term infant means for that matter.

#133 | Posted by ClownShack at 2013-03-09 03:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

This law is dead-on-arrival. It's unconstitutional under Roe v. Wade.

#19 | Posted by Sycophant at 201

are you sure..I don't think so..aren't there latitudes written in under certain conditions???

I dont know for sure..just asking..

#134 | Posted by afkabl2 at 2013-03-09 04:32 PM | Reply | Flag:

So many on the left champion science and science funding, which is great. But at the same time, they fail to see that sentient, self-aware, intelligent life as a miracle.

What a load. Is the world we live in a miracle? Then why do you tolerate people polluting it?

#135 | Posted by snoofy at 2013-03-09 05:19 PM | Reply | Flag:

You only pay for yourself---what's the problem--

Not really, that's why they force everyone to pay, so that millions more can get freebies or discounted health care, that's not "only paying for yourself"

#136 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-09 05:27 PM | Reply | Flag:

- Is the world we live in a miracle?

library.thinkquest.org

www.science20.com

#137 | Posted by Corky at 2013-03-09 05:40 PM | Reply | Flag:

"So many on the left champion science and science funding, which is great. But at the same time, they fail to see that sentient, self-aware, intelligent life as a miracle."

Yeah, conservatives were real appreciative of the lives of Iraqis just a few years ago. Decades earlier it was Vietnamese. Conservatives care about life right up until the moment it is born, then it's every man or woman for themselves.

#138 | Posted by danni at 2013-03-09 05:50 PM | Reply | Flag:

#132... how far do your memories go back? Can you remember anything from the first year or so of life even after birth?

#139 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-09 06:48 PM | Reply | Flag:

Danni, those are not conservatives. They're "Conservatives".

#140 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-09 06:49 PM | Reply | Flag:

#136 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-09 05:27 PM | Reply | Flag

Again, you are mistaken. You are paying your own bill. If you want to look at it as "paying for others" you have to look at what others are paying for you. There is a list of items to be paid for by the US government that exceeds the number of dollars you send to the government by a factor of millions. You benefit from some of those items, and others pay for it. Paying for others for certain items is a basic necessity to have any kind of society at all. Who paid your bills when you were six months old----was it "others"? Who helped them.

You can always reject civilization and live in the woods.

#141 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2013-03-09 08:01 PM | Reply | Flag:

#132... how far do your memories go back? Can you remember anything from the first year or so of life even after birth?

#139 | Posted by sentinel at 2013-03-09 06:48 PM | Reply

Your point? You seem to claim that a fetus is sentient---self aware. On what do you base that claim?

Neonates are not any more sentient than a 40 week fetus, but once born, it is given human being status. That is the begining of a human life as far as every society on the planet since the beginning of humanity. Do you count YOUR life as beginning at birth or do you count your time in the womb as part of your age when asked?

#142 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2013-03-09 08:05 PM | Reply | Flag:

Let me see if I have this right. Liberal democrats have absolutely no problem with restricting one of our most basic rights, which is clearly stated in the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution. And, restricting that right to an extent that easily oversteps, and steps on, our rights as United States citizens. However, they scream bloody murder over something that isn't even mentioned in the Constitution or, at the very least, is a right that is based on a very loose interpretation of our right to privacy.

Does that about sum it up, regarding how you democrats feel when it comes to what the Constitution of the United States means to you? Liberal democrats have pulled off two of the biggest lies ever regarding what their party stands for. They are, that their intent is to never take away, or alter, any of our most fundamental rights, and that they support the soldiers just not the war.

I recently played in a large golf tournament where the proceeds went to the Wounded Warriors Project, and there wasn't a liberal to be found anywhere near that golf course. And I spoke with many different people during that event, which was an all day affair. If I could choose one thing that liberals would be no longer allowed to say, it would be that they support our soldiers.

I just got back from a Mens Warehouse, where a great guy named Elliot helped me. As we talked he mentioned being in the Navy and, as I always do upon hearing from someone that they have served our country, I shook his hand and thanked him for his service. I only say that because I truly wonder just how many liberals are out there who do the same thing? I know the answer is not many.

Actually, there is a 3rd and even bigger lie that they have pulled off, which is that they are for the "little guy" and, more specifically, for being the party that has the nation's black community's best interest at heart. That one beats them all, honestly.

#143 | Posted by everlong at 2013-03-09 08:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

#143 | Posted by everlong at 2013-03-09 08:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

Finally---someone who sees the 2nd amendment as being clearly stated. Can you explain to these people who can't seem to understand the written word the importance of the words---well regulated militia? Also, please enlighten them what the words----"shall not be infringed" actually means.

I've tried and tried, but they don't seem to grasp what is in the second amendment at all. Maybe someone else who sees the words so clearly such as yourself can explain better than me.

#144 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2013-03-09 08:36 PM | Reply | Flag:

And, one more thing. Science has found more and more data on the development of a fetus in the womb, with the most recent findings being when real development of the cerebral cortex takes place during gestation. A fetus' cerebral cortex begins developing as early as the 1st trimester, and has significant development between 12 and 22 weeks.

This means that the part of the brain, which most scientists believe controls how we identify with who we are as people, is developed much sooner than once believed. Just imagine what we will know 10 years from now. Yet, for some strange reason, you "intellectuals" have no worries that, aborting a fetus after a certain period is not actually a process which could be considered the killing of a human life. You don't even question it.

Being male, I try to stay out of the abortion debate, unless I happen to be one half of the pregnancy in question. However, I have the feeling that, no matter what facts are revealed about fetal development, you will never change your view on the subject.

Before 12 weeks, few sulci were present; by 16 weeks, many sulci were present. The 16th week could be considered the most intensive time point for sulcal emergence. Most sulci, except for the postcentral sulcus and intraparietal sulcus, were present by 22 weeks GA. Measurements of the fetal brains, each with different growth rates, linearly increased with GA, but no sexual dimorphisms or cerebral asymmetries were detected.

CONCLUSIONS: The second trimester is the most important phase, during which most sulci are present and can be clearly shown on 7T postmortem MR imaging. It is apparent that the specific time during which neuropathologic features of sulci appear, previously thought to be well understood, should be redefined.

Z. Zhang,
Z. Hou,
X. Lin,
G. Teng,
H. Meng,
F. Zang,
F. Fang and
S. Liu

#145 | Posted by everlong at 2013-03-09 09:09 PM | Reply | Flag:

#143 | Posted by everlong at 2013

Just nonsense.

How do you pick a Liberal out of a crowd? When he's also wearing boots and Stetson I'll bet that's damned hard.

#146 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-09 09:16 PM | Reply | Flag:

I've asked my wife to shoot me if I ever give any indication of wanting to play golf, however. Perhaps that's why you saw no Liberals that day.

#147 | Posted by Zed at 2013-03-09 09:28 PM | Reply | Flag:

If I could choose one thing that liberals would be no longer allowed to say, it would be that they support our soldiers.

Cancervatives have a strange way of showing support for the soldiers.

1.bp.blogspot.com

#148 | Posted by reinheitsgebot at 2013-03-09 09:30 PM | Reply | Flag:

#145 | Posted by everlong at 2013-03-09 09:09 PM | Reply

It would seem you don't know as much about the 2nd amendment as you claim. That would point to the rest of your post and logic to be suspect as well.

#149 | Posted by Buffalo_Bob at 2013-03-09 10:58 PM | Reply | Flag:

Perhaps we should just do background checks on all women who seek abortions. We could have a national registry so that we all can know who is seeking abortions. We could publish onlinenthe names and addresses of everybody seeking one. The background checks should cost the patients around $100. This is a very reasonable approach with no intent to outlaw abortions.

If this a reasonable approach for handling law abiding gun owners then it is good enough for abortion patients. . While we are at it lets do the same thing for welfare recipients and aids patients.

I have a better idea, lets not do it for any of these LEGAL ACTIVITIES.

#150 | Posted by bph320 at 2013-03-09 11:18 PM | Reply | Flag:

We all pay with Obamacare.

Don't want to fund abortions? You have no choice.

www.newsmax.com

I wonder how the libs would feel if we forced them to fund handguns for anyone that wants one?

#151 | Posted by sames1 at 2013-03-10 11:17 AM | Reply | Flag:

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